Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Curbside at VideoKarma

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-27-2017, 12:00 PM
bandersen's Avatar
bandersen bandersen is offline
Restoring Moto VT71s
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 7,227
Blonde Motorola 12K3 w matching UHF converter

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Retro-Space...gAAOSwSQFZ5per

I don't think I've ever seen that converter in blonde

__________________
Here are my Vintage Radio & TV YouTube Channel and Photo Gallery
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-28-2017, 01:44 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,748
I scanned all the ads for the TV's and they're all grossly overpriced!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:51 PM
David Roper's Avatar
David Roper David Roper is offline
console lover
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,937
Were the Motorola converters available in 1952? They couldn't have been of any use earlier than that. I have a 17K4 with "matching" converter. Was UHF upgrade-when-available a Motorola marketing strategy?
__________________
tvontheporch.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-29-2017, 12:24 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Roper View Post
Were the Motorola converters available in 1952? They couldn't have been of any use earlier than that. I have a 17K4 with "matching" converter. Was UHF upgrade-when-available a Motorola marketing strategy?
It might be as early as late 1952. You'd have to look up when the first UHF station went on the air.
Milwaukee was a UHF town from early on. At one time, the only channel, channel 3, which started in 1948 carried NBC, Dumont and CBS programming.
When CBS and ABC wanted to go independant, because of Politics, CBS had to settle for a UHF channel, ABC got channel 12.
Converters, UHF strips and antennas sold like mad. People had to have CBS programming like "I Love Lucy" and few other popular programs.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-29-2017, 03:11 PM
Jeffhs's Avatar
Jeffhs Jeffhs is offline
<----Zenith C845
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairport Harbor, Ohio (near Lake Erie)
Posts: 3,478
Some cities, such as Cleveland, did not get UHF TV until the late 1960s, so the UHF converter for that Motorola TV would have been useless in northeastern Ohio until then as I am about to explain. Channel 43 was the first commercial UHF station, followed by 61 (formerly Kaiser Broadcasting, off the air from 1975 to '82 or so, then home shopping, now WQHS Univision) and 55 in Akron; however, the very first UHF channel in Cleveland was PBS (then NET) channel 25, which went on the air in 1965. I lived in a Cleveland suburb at the time (Wickliffe, an eastern suburb 15 miles from Cleveland and about ten miles further southwest from the TV towers in the Cleveland suburb of Parma), and we had the devil of a time receiving that station on our 17-inch Silvertone portable TV with a loop antenna. I could barely make out the station's test pattern through all the snow.

I'll never forget when 43 went on three years later. I was in my basement one afternoon, working on an old TV, IIRC, and had the radio on. Suddenly, an announcement came on: "Attention! Channel 43 is on the air!!" Well, I dropped what I was doing, ran up the basement stairs, and turned the TV on to channel 43. The station was on the air, all right--with a test pattern! The picture was much better than channel 25 had in our area, but that was because 43 had a much stronger signal. The local elementary school, just down the road from me at the time (again, late '60s), had an outdoor amplified all-channel antenna to get channel 25, which was downconverted to channel 4 so as to be watchable on the 21" b&w RCA TVs in the classrooms at the time. The sets all had a card taped to the sides of the cabinets to remind teachers to set the VHF tuner to channel 4, in order to receive then-NET channel 25. The VHF antenna was rarely if ever used, as the TVs were in the classrooms for educational purposes only.

BTW, I looked at the TV Guide listings for the Milwaukee area a few moments before starting to write this, and found that the NBC station serving that city was (and still is) on channel 4--not on a UHF channel. I mention this because of VK member Electronic M's statement that the Milwaukee metro area was "a UHF town from early on", in his words. Milwaukee does have its CBS channel on channel 58 now, but that is only because Fox Broadcasting bought out the city's original VHF CBS affiliate some time ago, forcing the CBS affiliation to move to channel 58.

When were most or all of Milwaukee's other TV stations on UHF channels? If the other network stations were on channels above channel 13, there must have been one heck of a lot of viewer complaints in the '50s-'60s because many, if not most, televisions in use at the time were not set up for UHF reception. This would explain why there was such a run on sales of UHF converters and UHF channel strips (the latter used with '50s-'60s-era Zenith TVs, inserted in the tuner in place of unused VHF channels, to receive the then-new UHF stations) in those days.
__________________
Jeff, WB8NHV

Collecting, restoring and enjoying vintage Zenith radios since 2002

Zenith. Gone, but not forgotten.

Last edited by Jeffhs; 10-29-2017 at 03:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 10-29-2017, 04:38 PM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,583
My Jan 1954 Radio Electronics lists the following channels for Milwaukee:

WCAN, ch 25
WOKY, ch 19
WTMJ, ch 4

In addition, Madison had:
WKOW, ch 27
WMTV, ch 33

And Oshkosh had:
WOSH, ch 48

With the exception of ch 4 in Milwaukee and ch 2 (WBAY) in Green Bay, Wisconsin was mostly a UHF state.

Indiana, where the set and converter are located, had 7 UHF and only one VHF station, according to the Jan 1954 listing. Perhaps that set and converter did not travel far from its "home" location.

jr

Last edited by jr_tech; 10-29-2017 at 05:14 PM. Reason: correction
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-30-2017, 11:37 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
Some cities, such as Cleveland, did not get UHF TV until the late 1960s, so the UHF converter for that Motorola TV would have been useless in northeastern Ohio until then as I am about to explain. Channel 43 was the first commercial UHF station, followed by 61 (formerly Kaiser Broadcasting, off the air from 1975 to '82 or so, then home shopping, now WQHS Univision) and 55 in Akron; however, the very first UHF channel in Cleveland was PBS (then NET) channel 25, which went on the air in 1965. I lived in a Cleveland suburb at the time (Wickliffe, an eastern suburb 15 miles from Cleveland and about ten miles further southwest from the TV towers in the Cleveland suburb of Parma), and we had the devil of a time receiving that station on our 17-inch Silvertone portable TV with a loop antenna. I could barely make out the station's test pattern through all the snow.

I'll never forget when 43 went on three years later. I was in my basement one afternoon, working on an old TV, IIRC, and had the radio on. Suddenly, an announcement came on: "Attention! Channel 43 is on the air!!" Well, I dropped what I was doing, ran up the basement stairs, and turned the TV on to channel 43. The station was on the air, all right--with a test pattern! The picture was much better than channel 25 had in our area, but that was because 43 had a much stronger signal. The local elementary school, just down the road from me at the time (again, late '60s), had an outdoor amplified all-channel antenna to get channel 25, which was downconverted to channel 4 so as to be watchable on the 21" b&w RCA TVs in the classrooms at the time. The sets all had a card taped to the sides of the cabinets to remind teachers to set the VHF tuner to channel 4, in order to receive then-NET channel 25. The VHF antenna was rarely if ever used, as the TVs were in the classrooms for educational purposes only.

BTW, I looked at the TV Guide listings for the Milwaukee area a few moments before starting to write this, and found that the NBC station serving that city was (and still is) on channel 4--not on a UHF channel. I mention this because of VK member Electronic M's statement that the Milwaukee metro area was "a UHF town from early on", in his words. Milwaukee does have its CBS channel on channel 58 now, but that is only because Fox Broadcasting bought out the city's original VHF CBS affiliate some time ago, forcing the CBS affiliation to move to channel 58.

When were most or all of Milwaukee's other TV stations on UHF channels? If the other network stations were on channels above channel 13, there must have been one heck of a lot of viewer complaints in the '50s-'60s because many, if not most, televisions in use at the time were not set up for UHF reception. This would explain why there was such a run on sales of UHF converters and UHF channel strips (the latter used with '50s-'60s-era Zenith TVs, inserted in the tuner in place of unused VHF channels, to receive the then-new UHF stations) in those days.
Any set that used a Standard Coil tuner could be used with strips made by them. The early sets that had a penthode RF amp, didn't work as well.
Looking at the post after this one shows that channel 12 wasn't on then.
Regarding NBC, channel 4, it was always NBC and owned by the Milwaukee Journal. It originally started out in 1948 on channel 3. The FCC made them change to channel 4 because of co-channel interference with Green Bay and Chicago channel 2. They did allow channel 3 to be used in Madison, Wi.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-30-2017, 02:48 PM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Roper View Post
Were the Motorola converters available in 1952? They couldn't have been of any use earlier than that. I have a 17K4 with "matching" converter. Was UHF upgrade-when-available a Motorola marketing strategy?
Tv-boxes site lists the converter as a 1953 model. Since it was likely introduced in late 1952, it was very close to the beginning of commercial UHF broadcasting (Sept 20, 1952- KPTV 27, Portland Oregon).

http://tv-boxes.com/uhf/index.html
jr
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:31 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ęCopyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.