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Old 02-15-2015, 12:07 PM
Paul Knaack Paul Knaack is offline
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Winegard antenna amplifier

I bought this Winegard antenna off craigslist, for next to nothing, about a year ago. Anyone know what model this is? This thing really impresses me. When the weather is right, and with the rotater I've pulled in Chicago stations for hours without a blip in reception. Millwaukee, Madison, and Wausau stations most of the time and Green Bay stations all the time. I just, all but lost vhf reception,RF channel 11,9,7 which is also there virtual channel, uhf channels still great. I suspect problem with the preamp connection or were it snaps onto antenna or could it be the preamp itself?



http://s834.photobucket.com/user/kna...y8q2a.jpg.html
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:08 PM
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Is DC power getting up to the preamp ok?

jr
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:18 PM
Paul Knaack Paul Knaack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
Is DC power getting up to the preamp ok?

jr
I think so. Uhf channels still come in strong. I f I unplug power supply I lose reception.
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:00 PM
Gunslinger Gunslinger is offline
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those amps use AC power
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
those amps use AC power
Interesting! Was that chosen to reduce corrosion of the connectors in a wet environment?

jr
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
Interesting! Was that chosen to reduce corrosion of the connectors in a wet environment?

jr
No, it was chosen to mitigate the voltage drop in the long runs up to your skyhook.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:26 PM
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Combination VHF/UHF antennas Winegard antennas in particular have a box
that combines the two half's of the antenna into one downlead.

It is possible that this item has gotten corroded, or eaten by some monster
that preys on the insides of these things....

I had to replace the one on mine once, and keep an extra for the next time...

A failure of this item will most commonly knock out either the VHF, or UHF
part of the antenna.... You should check this item first....

Here is an example: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...8269&ss=457147

.
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Old 02-16-2015, 06:36 PM
Paul Knaack Paul Knaack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Username1 View Post
Combination VHF/UHF antennas Winegard antennas in particular have a box
that combines the two half's of the antenna into one downlead.

It is possible that this item has gotten corroded, or eaten by some monster
that preys on the insides of these things....

I had to replace the one on mine once, and keep an extra for the next time...

A failure of this item will most commonly knock out either the VHF, or UHF
part of the antenna.... You should check this item first....

Here is an example: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...8269&ss=457147

.
Thanks squirrel boy,
Thanks for the link. Once the snow is gone and it hopfully warms up a bit I'll get up on the roof and take a look at it. I should be able to adapt a newer amplifier to this antenna. Shouldn't be too bad if it fits in the cartridge. I was looking at this one on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251697624295...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
but I'll get in touch solid signal, I like thier prices better.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:20 PM
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You understand the item I put up is not a preamp/ signal booster....?

I did not see an antenna on the solid signal site that looked like yours, and it's an assumption
on my part that there is a UHF/VHF signal combiner of some sort before the pre-amp.

If it's built into the preamp or the preamp has separate inputs there is a chance that
there is corrosion or some other connection problem before the preamp.

For the most part your preamp, and most preamps, can handle both UHF and VHF unless
they were specifically designed for only one of the two bands.

If you lost only one band, and when you remove the power, reception gets worse, then
I would say the preamp is working, but the signal combiner, or connections
before the preamp are at fault.....

Send a picture of your antenna to Winegard and have them identify it, and
ask them if there is a combiner before the preamp, or if it's a all in one
package..... They may have the parts available to fix it with no unreliable
retro-fitting that may end up causing problems....

Are you sure it's a Winegard....?

Take a look at this antenna.... http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...698P&ss=458460

This is the one I have.... Click the specifications tab, you will see 3 pictures
of the installation of the combiner. See the itty bitty aluminum wires they
are feeding into the plastic box.... These items are pressed into a kinda
pinch connection on the combiner. This can corrode and fail, or the board
can corrode and fail. This part may be bad, and is cheaper than a preamp.
Who knows you may even be able to clean up the connections with some
emery cloth, and cleaner and fix it with no parts...

Is that item on ebay for your antenna??? Is that your antenna preamp CP-2880 ??
Have you already identified the antenna....?

.
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Last edited by Username1; 02-16-2015 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:21 PM
Paul Knaack Paul Knaack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Username1 View Post
You understand the item I put up is not a preamp/ signal booster....?


I did not see an antenna on the solid signal site that looked like yours, and it's an assumption
on my part that there is a UHF/VHF signal combiner of some sort before the pre-amp.

If it's built into the preamp or the preamp has separate inputs there is a chance that
there is corrosion or some other connection problem before the preamp.

For the most part your preamp, and most preamps, can handle both UHF and VHF unless
they were specifically designed for only one of the two bands.

If you lost only one band, and when you remove the power, reception gets worse, then
I would say the preamp is working, but the signal combiner, or connections
before the preamp are at fault.....

Send a picture of your antenna to Winegard and have them identify it, and
ask them if there is a combiner before the preamp, or if it's a all in one
package..... They may have the parts available to fix it with no unreliable
retro-fitting that may end up causing problems....

Are you sure it's a Winegard....?

Take a look at this antenna.... http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...698P&ss=458460

This is the one I have.... Click the specifications tab, you will see 3 pictures
of the installation of the combiner. See the itty bitty aluminum wires they
are feeding into the plastic box.... These items are pressed into a kinda
pinch connection on the combiner. This can corrode and fail, or the board
can corrode and fail. This part may be bad, and is cheaper than a preamp.
Who knows you may even be able to clean up the connections with some
emery cloth, and cleaner and fix it with no parts...

you may even be able to clean up the connections with some
emery cloth, and cleaner and fix it with no parts...


Is that item on ebay for your antenna???
Is that your antenna preamp CP-2880 ??

Have you already identified the antenna....?



.
...
You understand the item I put up is not a preamp/ signal booster....?
Yeah, I thought if I contacted Solid signal they may have advise on a mast mounted preamp.
you may even be able to clean up the connections with some
emery cloth, and cleaner and fix it with no parts...

Before I installed the antenna this is exactly what I did. Worked great untill recently , so it may have bad connection . It uses the pinch type connectors like your talking about attached to the preamp /combiner curcuit board that snaps onto feeder line. I found this article on line and I think this antenna is much older than I thought it was.
https://www.google.com/patents/US3475759
here is were it says it uses seperate curcuitry for uhf and vhf
15. A cartridge preamplifier unit in accordance with claim 14 wherein the cartridge chassis board includes amplification circuitry for amplifying television signals in the VHF frequency band and additional and separate amplification circuitry for amplifying television signals in the UHF frequency band.
This is what my preamp cartridge looks like. After partially reading article it looks like they had many cartridge options
https://patentimages.storage.googlea...S3475759-1.png
Send a picture of your antenna to Winegard and have them identify it, and
ask them if there is a combiner before the preamp, or if it's a all in one
package..... They may have the parts available to fix it with no unreliable
retro-fitting that may end up causing problems....
I'll do that. I hope they don't tell me its old and I should replace it.

Is that item on ebay for your antenna???
I'm not sure have to wait to get on roof. Too much snow.

Have you already identified the antenna....?

No, All I know for sure is it is a Winegard(Winegard stamped into main antenna beam) with built in cartridge preamp. I'm starting to think combiner/ preamp is obsolete.
Sidenote: this antenna is about 13 ft long and 9 feet wide. In case anyone would happen to know model of it.

Last edited by Paul Knaack; 02-16-2015 at 09:27 PM.
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2015, 10:58 PM
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- WOW - 1967......... Well, maybe it could be too old for them to still have parts and
you may have to retrofit something.... Surprising to see they used that plastic housing
with the same pinch connectors like my antenna has.... Looks like you did quite a bit
or work researching this.... I wonder why that amp on ebay has screw on connectors
for the antenna inputs when Winegard looks like it has been using that 2 piece plastic
case with pinch connectors as far back as '67....?

I guess buying an antenna with a built in preamp was an option at one time
for an antenna of that type...

Whatever you do be really careful with those aluminum wires that run into the plastic
box, if your antenna uses it, they can be very brittle, as aluminum is not as ductile as copper....
Repeated bending will make it break.... And by repeated I mean 2 or 3 movements...

I sure hope you find out more, and post your repairs... I find this pretty interesting...
Especially that part of the design dates back to '67.... That antenna's gotta be a tank !

Good luck ! !

.
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Old 05-11-2015, 02:45 PM
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Paul,
Your antenna is a model CS-8098, third largest in the chrome-star line and introduced in the mid 70's. The bigger CS-8100 and the smaller CS-8096 were discontinued and only the biggest model has been carried over as the HD-8200. Only the Channel Master 3671 comes close to size and performance.

I installed many a CS-8096 which had a smaller VHF section, since most of the locations had decent VHF but poor UHF from Philly. The Winegard cartridge amps were sensitive to lightning (nearby tree hits, not the antenna), so we used Channel Master 0064 single-input mast-mount preamps twin-lead from the cartridge-mounted UV combiner supplied with the antenna.

Squirrel is correct that (assuming the connections to VHF and UHF bus-rods are sound) your amp may be to blame but these amps were discontinued in favor of using the U-V combiner and a short piece of 75 ohm coax or 300 ohm twinlead to a mast amplifier.

The construction is very solid and unless installed on a chimney with coal exhaust, last for decades.
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:29 PM
Paul Knaack Paul Knaack is offline
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Hello Dave,
Thanks for the information on the Winegard. I did buy this preamp and power supply off Ebay

The power supply I got with the antenna was only putting out about 12vac. When I installed the new power supply things improved greatly, but vhf still dosen't seem as good as it could. I still haven't replaced the preamp.
So when I install the new preamp to antenna, What is the best method to to attach the 300 ohm twin lead to the feeder line? I'll keep the twin leads as short as possible and was thinking of using small aligator clips to attach to the aluminum feeder lines and reinstall it in the original cartridge housing. Does this sound feasible?
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:53 AM
Gunslinger Gunslinger is offline
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I have amps and preamps and some power supplies if you need something. I also have them with a post amp to give 30db of gain. I also have agile modulators made by Channel Plus.

Last edited by Gunslinger; 05-12-2015 at 09:55 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:18 AM
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I recall those amps as being supplied with an extra large housing similar to the ones fitting on the later chromstar antennas. The top part of the housing attached to the mast and had slots for the twin lead to exit and run up to the antenna. We surmised it was how Winegard adapted their amps for use with non-chromstar and other mfr's antennas.

On a few jobs, the antenna housing was large enough for the PC board, so we piggy-backed the amp onto the single output UV combiner. Why the UHF was at the side on the separate input amps, Ill never know but we only used combined input units in this instance.

Rather than alligator clips, use 4-40 or 6-24 stainless hardware and washers to isolate the aluminum bars from the copper twin lead. Use RTV caulk to seal up all the openings in the upper part of the housing, leaving a drip hole at the bottom.

These were the second generation (troublemaker) amps that fit in the smaller carts - http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Winegard...item3a9b222061

These were the first generation that used the compact carts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-Winegar...item4ae9545479

The key is to weatherproof not have them degrade in a few years and stop working altogether.
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Last edited by DavGoodlin; 05-12-2015 at 11:13 AM.
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