Do you still use your old radios
 

Do you still use your old radios? Since I don't have money for an new good F.M. radio I still use my '50's "Grunding" Stereo 5107 U (no stereo decoder on) :wave: :D The bad thing about it is that is stereo 3D (it haves one big speaker in the front for the bass, one small round tweeter (in the front, too) and 2 medium speakers (one in the left, the other in the rigt)). No A.F.C. avalaible
I use the other one which haves A.F.C. and is normal stereo only as amplafaier, because it haves F.M. only on 66-73 MHz (I must get my hands on an F.M. C.C.I.R.-F.M. O.I.R.T. convertor)
Of course, bogts are tube radios.

I don't use mine much they are more or less for display.

I use a couple of them. Not a 'radio' guy, per se, so I forget the models - but I've got a good size all wood Tube RCA in the kitchen that sees a lot of use.

I've got a small GE Tube (plastic) AM only job in the bedroom I get my weather / traffic / news off every morning.

Cheers,
Russ

The ones I use most often are older but solid state: an Arvin stereo from about 1969 & a Nordemende Transita portable from the late 60s. The Nordemende, in particular, really impresses me. I really don't use any of the other 300 radios piled up around here on any regular basis. Most of the good stuff is upstairs & I just haven't been spending much time up there lately. Not enough good stuff on AM, anyway. I plan on eventually fixing up a small console to put in my office. Recently I have had an RCA am/fm set in here that I fixed for a friend & it got lots of positive comments & performed great. I was leaving it on almost all day, on the oldies station, to drown out the awful top 40 junk they play in the shop!

I'm listening to the '80s station on my newly-repaired mid '50s Zenith right now, whilst working on building a battery eliminator so I can try out my Atwater Kent 30.

Do I use my Boatanchors? Oh, absolutely!! Rick Mish, the R-390A guru, recommends that R-390As be run as much as possible. They tend to get out of alignment if you DON'T run them. i've got a Grundig 2066 from the late '50s that gets run about every day. Running them is basically the point of having them, to me at least.-Sandy G

I have one I use a LOT.
 

It is my Philco 48-482, which is a large table model radio, am-fm, from'48. It has a 6v6 amp, and mostly loctal tubes(except the 6v6 and 5y3). I use it to listen to electronic music mainly, when I am at the computer, it probably sees an average of an hour or so a day.

However, even though this philco is BIG, and has a 6v6,(but only a 5x7" FC speaker), my little '68 model Sylvania SS radio, with 14 transistors, push-pull TO-3 outputs, and an accoustic suspension 4" speaker, can blow it out of the water, in sound(especially bass), and power.

I use some of mine at least once a week. I use both AM and FM tube type radios on a regular basis.

In fact, the only radio that I use more is in my truck(of course, it is solid state).

Most of my tube radios are used on a regular basis. Unfortunately, AM stations don't have that much of a variety to offer in my area in regards to music. AM here is mainly news, talk radio, spiritual programming... everything but music. Occasionally, I will find a distant station at night that will have "classic country" music on... that's about it. On Sunday mornings, one of the local AM stations plays Cajun music from 6 to 11 in the morning. If I get up early enough, I will listen to that.

I also play my tube consoles on FM on a regular basis. I have a CD player plugged in to one and use it all the time.

Actually, I don't have too much solid state equipment other than my stereo system in the main room. However, by today's standards, it all vintage gear as well. :)

I have a very old pre WW2 AM-FM radio. Emerson 460. The FM is on 41 to 50 MHz. This was the original American FM broadcast band, but this was changed to the modern 88 to 108MHz FM band in 1945. Something about making room for TV channels, but in reality RCA wanted FM to die to avoid competition for its new product: television. More details at my web page http://www.geocities.com/wa2ise/radios/fm45.html

Next weekend, as FM will have its 75th annerversary, there will be a special broadcast on 42.8MHz in the New York City area to celebrate. Using Major Armstrong's tower in Alpine NJ. Edwin Armstrong invented/developed FM.

Wow, for once I wish I was close enough to NYC to hear that! I have a couple prewar FM sets, though neither is working. (well, they might be, I never try the old ones like that without recapping)

My five Zenith radios don't see a lot of use, as there isn't that much to listen to on AM or FM radio in my area. Plenty of stations (the AM is full of stations at night; I like listening to an all-news station in Philadelphia [KYW 1060] for national news), but the FMs are mostly rock, country and one talk station (the last is one I don't get where I live now, though I did hear it very well at my former home); I listened quite a bit to NPR when the war in Iraq first started and was beginning to heat up, but lately I don't have much to do with anything below 92 MHz. I mostly listen to my own cassettes and CDs, in addition to two Internet radio stations (Radio365 and RealOldies 1690, the latter being the Internet webcast of an oldies station in suburban Chicago) and several digital cable music channels. I'd use my Zenith TransOceanic Royal 1000-1 more than I do if it were not for the facts that 1) I only have two places in my apartment I can plug the wall-wart adapter into (an outlet in my kitchen and one behind the desk with my amateur radio gear). The former isn't really the best place in the world to be using anything powered by electricity even though the outlets are protected by GFCIs; the latter is in my bedroom, and since I can't have my radios on very loud here it is very difficult to hear it anyplace else in the apartment when on, 2) I haven't gotten around to getting new batteries for it yet. When I do use that radio or my smaller Zenith R-70, or even my Zenith K-731 or my 1951 H-511Y, I listen to a big-band/standards station from Toronto. I also have a Zenith H-480W AM/FM stereo clock radio which I bought new in 1980; it works on AM but is very weak on FM ever since I cleaned the slide controls (volume, tone, balance) with contact cleaner (RadioShack brand, not Deoxit--I don't really know where to find the latter; I live in a small town with nothing in the way of electronics stores except a Radio Shack in the next town, five miles from here--there are no large cities, only small towns for the most part, in my area). Some of the spray must have gotten into the FM RF amp or some early signal stage and shorted a transistor or worse, as the FM is extremely weak (can barely hear it with the volume full on, though the stations are there).

You can still hear things like baby monitors and the like on the 41-50 MHz range of your Emerson 460, and all other prewar FM radios which had this band. The tuning range of most of these radios goes a little above and below what the tuning dial would have you believe (the actual tuning range is maybe 39-51 MHz or something like that), so you could probably even hear ham radio activity at the low end of the six-meter band if there is any in your area. If you can fudge the high end of the dial on your set so that it will tune to 52-54 MHz you might be able to hear 6m FM repeaters, again if there are such near you (6 meter FM was pretty much overshadowed by similar repeaters on 2m in the late '60s and beyond; now, 6m FM is likely all but dead).

I certainly hope you were kidding when you said that RCA was trying to kill off FM radio, or at least wished it were dead. I do know that the 44-50 MHz range, once assigned to television as channel 1 (many early postwar sets had this channel on a 13-position tuner), was eventually reassigned and is now the hams' 6-meter band (after a bit of realignment of frequency bands after the war). But I never dreamed that RCA was actually hoping the idea of FM radio broadcasting would be a passing fancy and would fade away eventually. If so, they were in for one heck of a surprise (and disappointment, no doubt) when FM on the then-new 88-108 MHz band became the huge success it is today. Stereo FM (no one ever calls it multiplex anymore, although that is the technical term for the standard), SCA, and now a new thing called high-definition digital FM (there is exactly one[!] such station in Cleveland)--the medium is nothing like it was when Armstrong pioneered the system in 1947. Now, if FM broadcasters would start carrying something other than noise on their stations (which is what a lot of modern rock music is these days), the medium could again be a vehicle for good-music broadcasting, which is probably what Armstrong envisioned FM radio to be in the first place. It is too bad, IMO, that FM stations use easy listening only as a way to get the station on the air initially; this automated format lasts maybe a few weeks or months, then another broadcasting company buys the station and boom--out goes the automated beautiful music and in come loudmouth DJs and so-called "music" by rock groups no one under the age of 18 has ever heard of. Cleveland lost three of its best FM easy-listening stations this way in the last twenty-five years or so (with the last one going rock just 15 years ago), so now almost every station in the city is rock or some variation of it. Hardly what Mr. Armstrong had in mind.

According to a PBS show that I watched, RCA was not trying to kill off FM, just Armstrong's FM business.

They even designed the ratio detector to get around Armstrong patents. However, this did not work forever as the US Supreme court ruled that they and most other companys violated his patents and had to pay his widow (he had committed suicide-partly because of his fight with RCA) quite a sum of money.

The only major manufacturer that I am aware of that did not violate his patents was Zenith. I have great respect for the leaders of that corporation at that time. I have only disgust for the leaders of the other electronic companies, especially RCA. Sarnoff was truly what FDR had in mind when he said that most business leaders were "Atilla the Huns in suits".

Gee whiz, I learn something new every time I visit these AK forums. I didn't realize that the R-390A receivers will actually go out of alignment if they are not used on a regular basis. What causes that? I was always under the impression that, once a radio was properly aligned, the adjustments would hold indefinitely, whether or not the set was used. :dunno:

42-50 Mhz is Low Band VHF, several states still use it for their Highway Patrol communication. I'm a Field Engineer for Missouri and my transmitters are on 42.380, 42.920 and 42.940. It is possible to hear these on radios with the old FM band however the volume will be low because we are using narrow band modulation.

And I use my old radios alot, especially the ones with FM, I keep a Zenith 845 beside my recliner and play it often for extended periods of time. The Zenith has all the original caps including the filters and it still has the selenium rectifier inplace. I use my Magnavox Stereo Concert Grand for hours on end, in the winter the 16 6V6's and 4 5U4's keep my Den warm. I've got my Directv receiver hooked up to it and my wife sometimes plays it all day long while I'm at work and we just keep it on when I get home, I just turn it up louder than she does..... :yes:

I'd sure like to see pictures of this unit, especially inside. :) Do you have any?

John

I've not taken any photos of it since I got it home, here's some of it before I bought it. I'll try to take a few of it with the back off asap....

Man... that Maggie looks like it's pumping the tunes out thru some big-ass speakers! If that thing is using 16 6V6's, it must really rock!

Too cool! :thmbsp: Does it sound as good as it looks?

John

Sure!
 

Some folks are into old radios for the look, others to re-live/honor the past. A few are into it for the sound. As one acquires and listens to tube radios and understands some of the science behind the tube vs. transistor sound disparity, one knows how to find radios that sound better than new radios.

Yes, some some things were made better in the past. More money was spent in their construction. Homes, cars, furniture...and old radios are often included in this list. Technology progresses but often the quality of workmanship is left out in the pursuit of higher profits and built-in obsolescence.

Some awesome table tube sets and wood consoles were made in the late fifties/early sixties. For example, a good '59 Panasonic K-782 with the wood case has a very rich sound and reproduces vocal audio frequencies better than many a BOSE speakered high end tuner sold today. This can be attributed to the way waves are treated by tubes versus transistors and the sweet design of a 12AJ7 triode-heptode tube. The best speakers in the world are not worth much if the signal that goes into them isn't as rich and diverse as it should be.

Almost any am/fm tube radio table set in working order will outperform any of the cheapy cd players/cassette/tuner systems sold mass-market these days.

And, as all folks with wood consoles or boat anchors know, they get awesome bass response from a tube console. Combined with rich vocals you have the best tool for reproducing music.

Nothing is sweeter on the ears than an excellent stereophonic tube console from the 59-63 era. Refresh the speakers, any necessary tubes, etcetera and get it back in beautiful shape and let the magic begin! That fine wood can be refinished & lacquered to look like a million bucks is just an added bonus!

I see old radios as quality furniture, rather than decoration, and furniture is meant to be used and enjoyed.

Not that there's anything wrong with staring at an old radio on a shelf or collecting them the way one might collect stamps, but I prefer finding the nice ones and <I>listening</I> to them. :lmao:

Using Old Radios
 

I restore my sets with the intent to provide "Everyday Reliability". I use my sets regularly and they seldom need repair if I do the job right the first time. I have a few that spend more time on the shelf simply because there are only so many places in the house to put them in daily service. Even the shelf dwellers are fully dependable and get occasional use. I love the sound, the glow of the tubes, the RF performance, lighted dials, and the beautiful sculptured Bakelite cabinets. These sets are things of sheer beauty whether on or off. Being able to use them everyday is an added bonus. My regular daily users are as follows:

GE Model 202 6 tube AM (great sound, very sensitive)
Sparton 5W?? 5 tube (great looking, good performance)
Silvertone Metal Midget 4 tube (bedside table radio)
Hallicrafters S-53A 8 tube shortwave (very sensitive, built like a tank, way cool)

I have a Philco big Bakelite AM/SW table model Model 48-464 I think that is going into the livingroom once it is finished.

Finally got a pix of the Concert Grand from the back....42 tubes in total. Each amp is Bi Amped using 6 6V6's to drive the Bass Woofers and 2 6V6's to drive the Horns. This is an example of what happens when the bean counters don't pay attention to what the engineers are doing.... :D

Your electric bill must double when this is turned on! That is a lot of tubes for one set.

Mid to late 1960s color TVs only had 27 or so.

Bet it sounds great though.

Zenith made some great table radios from the '59-'63 era. I have one, a Zenith K-731. It's in a walnut wood cabinet and has a two-way speaker system--a 5x7 oval speaker for lows/midrange and a 3" electrostatic tweeter, the latter driven directly from the plate of the 35C5 output tube, for the highs. Needless to say, it sounds great. The bass response is incredible for a table model; in fact, I'm a little afraid to set the tone control to full bass for fear of damaging the main speaker. I usually set it to midrange and leave it there; that's where my ears tell me it sounds the best.

I have also read reports here on AK that Zenith's C-845 table model also has incredible sound quality for a table set. Several people here have these little sets and seem to like them a lot; I can understand why. These sets were made for high fidelity (that "high fidelity" script logotype on the front panel isn't just an advertising slogan--Zenith obviously meant it, in spades).

I often wonder, though, why Zenith did not include a phonograph input on the K-731, but did put one on the C845. The '731 is a great-sounding radio and, IMHO, would work well as a phono amplifier. I've never heard a C-845 playing, but I'd think it sounds every bit as good as the '731. Are the audio stages in the C-845 that much better than those in the '731? I would think, since the C-845 has two ordinary cone-type speakers and the K-731 has an oval 5x7 and an electrostatic tweeter, that the latter would work every bit as well as a phono amp as would the '845. :dunno:


I would love to have a nice wood console stereo, such as an older Zenith (I like anything in walnut or other dark wood), but, unfortunately, my apartment is far too small. Oh well. That's why I got my Zenith 731 on ebay a couple years ago; I liked the looks of the cabinet and, since I always wanted a console, this radio is about the closest I'll come to having one. When the set arrived here, I plugged it in, turned it on, and it worked right out of the shipping box. The sound was and still is excellent. I am still amazed I did not have to do anything to it (new caps, etc.) after I got it--as I said, it played as soon as I powered it up, and the cabinet had almost no damage at all (save for a couple tiny wear spots on the front, above the speakers; one can hardly see them unless he/she looks for them). This set is the pride of my entire Zenith collection; you can be sure I'll hold on to it a long time. The one thing I know I should do but haven't, yet, is replace the selenium B+ rectifier. That's a project for some time in the future; I'm in no hurry, since the radio sounds great at this point ("if it ain't broke, don't fix it").

Boy, I'll say that system must run your electric bill sky-high! I never saw that many tubes in a console stereo in my life, although I have seen color TV sets with 20-30 tubes (I had one in the early '70s, a 1964 Silvertone 19" roundie table model; it had perhaps 20 tubes in it).

Your set must sound excellent, and with power to spare. I wouldn't turn it up full-blast if I were you, though, unless you want to blow the roof off your house or worse. :yikes: With each channel bi-amplified, that entire system must be a floor-shaker, even at mid-volume. Seems to me it could shake your floors even with the volume controls barely set above minimum.

The set must weigh a ton as well. How did you get it home after you bought it? For that matter, where did you put it after you got it home? That stereo looks like the kind of set that requires about five feet of floor space, minimum.

Sure; I'm using my 1961 KLH Model Eight every day.

The set pulls 645 watts off the AC line and it is a little over 5 ft long. I'd wanted a Concert Grand ever since I went on a service call to fix one in the early 70's. I don't remember what was wrong with the set but I do remember how taken aback I was when I took the back off and saw all those tubes. The customer wasn't home and after I fixed it I put on a Bill Black Combo album (WOW). I got word of this one being available through a post on Antiqueradios.com forum, well one thing led to another and pretty soon I was Southbound in my minivan minus seats to Texas. After 1000 miles over a weekend I had my Concert Grand. So far all I've done to it was replace a couple of 5U4's and drop in a later model Micro-Matic turntable with the lighter tone arm. The filters are original and it is absolutly hum free. As far as room I had to move my 1966 Magnavox Imperial to my Wifes photo studio to have room for it but it's worth it. The cabinet of the Concert Grand is mainly a sealed speaker enclosure, the amplifiers are mounted to the backs of the enclosure and the area just above amps that has all the screws around it is where the horns are, there's also a tunnel just below the tuner that connects the two sides together. I'm still looking for a remote control hand unit for it, it's an RF remote and since these sets are pretty rare the remote is even rarer.....

I had heard these existed, but I have never seen one. I never knew it was called a concert grand, or what it looked like. Maybe I'll find one someday. :)

Thanks for posting the pics, Randy.

John

Randy,

For a console, that's damn impressive looking!!! If for any reason I'm in your neck of the woods, I'm stopping by your house just so I can see and hear that thing!

Magnavox Concert Grand - record changer
 

Randy, I've been wondering for quite a while about the record changer in your Maggie Concert Grand system. You said you put in a newer Magnavox Micromatic changer for lower tracking force. What type of changer or turntable was in the Concert Grand orginally?

Jeff, It came with about the same changer as the later ones, the mounting holes lined up so I didn't have to do any cutting of the motorboard. The original changer used an Electro-Voice 26 ceramic cartridge which tracks at about 8-10 grams, it sounds good but it's murder on the vinyl. I dropped in a double idler Micro-Matic that uses the Astatic 195d and it tracks at 2 grams. Magnavox stuck with ceramic cartridges until almost the end of the era. I've got a '76 Magnavox Concert Grand that I bought new when I was working for a Magnavox Dealer and it uses the later Micro-matic with a single idler and the changer is driven from the center of the turntable instead of it's own idler direct to the motor, it also has a magnetic cartridge. I've seen a couple of the tubed sets on ebay in the last few years and I've also seen someone selling all the components out of one (shame). The fellow I bought the tubed set from gave me the original sales receipt dated 1961....$1500, that was a chunk-o-change 44 years ago....

I have one on my desk at work and use it regularly in the afternoon (usually from 4pm on, when enough people have left for the day that it won't disturb them). It does sound great, and has been reliable for almost three years of regular service. I have a Zenith AM/FM alarm clock/radio at home that also gets used regularly (the clock part still keeps perfect time).

I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to extend the life of the clock mechanism. As far as I can tell, there was no provision for lubrication as there would be for wind-up mechanical clocks. I guess that as long as it runs, I'll continue to enjoy it and wake up to genuine tube radio sound.




Joe

I always say that I will play these old radios I collect, but I seldom do. Every now and again I have a time warp experience with one - I listened to a baseball game on a Detrola recently.

I am hoping to drag a very nice sounding Zenith table model from 1959 to work and maybe listen in my office sometimes. It sounds sweet - has a little electrostatic tweeter - but it distorts quite a bit at anything over low volume (probably not due to malfunction but due to design). I wonder what the youngsters will make of that. To them streaming audio off the internet is hi-fi!

Yeah the tubes are nice - but how many audiophiles recognize that sweet YORX 8track/Cassette receiver circa 1980 with the faux woodgrain sitting on top of it?

That baby was a Spiegel mail order item and has that spring loaded on/off switch on that stainless steel and chrome front. I haven't seen one in 25 years.

Who needs the Magnavox for fine listening when one has that? :guitar:

Which model Zenith is that? I have a K-731 with an electrostatic tweeter which sounds fairly good at the volume levels at which I use it (can't play it too loud because I live in an apartment building). Somehow I can't quite believe any of the older Zeniths distort as much as you say yours does, unless there is a problem somewhere, such as an electrolytic filter cap beginning to go sour. I certainly do not think Zenith actually designed any of its older radios to go into distortion at anything less than extremely loud volume (these sets were designed with quality in mind from the '20s through about the '80s, the latter being the last decade in which Zenith produced radios), but then again any radio of any make or vintage will distort badly if it is operated at such high volume. Keep in mind as well that an amplifier driven into distortion will oftentimes produce more power than that for which it was designed, which could damage the speaker(s).

I wouldn't sell Internet streaming audio short if I were you; some of it sounds fairly good. I run the output of my computer's sound card through my Aiwa 200-total-watt bookshelf stereo and get good sound from Radio365 and RealOldies1690.com, the latter being the Internet webcast of an oldies radio station near Chicago, the former being a streaming Internet radio station with several different music formats available. In fact, I don't use the speakers that came with my computer at all anymore. I think the reason streaming Internet audio sounds so poor is that most of the time people listen to it through their computer's own tiny speakers, which were never designed for high fidelity. Kids today may think this is "hi-fi" because they may never have heard a real high-fidelity music system in operation; keep in mind as well that, by their mid-teens of even younger (!), many youngsters have ruined their hearing forever and for good by listening to loud rock bands at concerts or at high volume through headphones or speakers over their own stereo systems. Listening at very high volume through headphones is particularly damaging to human hearing, since the transducers are right next to the listener's eardrums. The small stereo headphones furnished with personal stereo units often come with warnings against listening at high volume levels for any length of time, for just those reasons. I have a small FM scanning radio with headphones that can probably blow your head off (it distorts like heck long before the volume control gets anywhere near maximum, though) if the volume is turned up all the way; my late-'80s GE boom box is like that as well. Both sets are capable of more than enough volume to damage one's hearing forever; fortunately, I don't care for really loud music anyway (anymore; I am almost 49 years old), so have never run either radio (and certainly not my stereo system or any other radio I own) that loud. Thinking about loud music and teenagers reminds me of a song by the '60s West Coast surf rock group The Beach Boys; the song is titled "Dance, Dance, Dance" and begins, " After six hours of school I've had enough for the day/I hit the radio dial and trurn it up all the way" I bet that kid's hearing was ruined long before he reached the age of 18.

BTW, I notice you are near Cleveland, Ohio. Are you right in the city or in a suburb? I ask because I grew up in the Cleveland suburb of Wickliffe and recently (as in just over five years ago) moved to Fairport Harbor, in east-central Lake County. I don't want to go into details, but the basic reason I moved to where I live now was to get away from the suburbs (Fairport Harbor is located just about ten miles east of the last true suburb of Cleveland).

I wondered myself what make that 8-track system was atop the Concert Grand unit. I thought at first it was an external cassette deck (didn't notice it was an eight-track player).

@Randy Bassham: how many tubes gots your beauty. I encouterted 17! How I wish me to have souch big beauty.

Since we are talking about nice sounding old radios...
 

I have to include this litle gem. It is a Sylvania 1968 model, solid state, W/a PAIR of push-pull TO-3 outputs, to drive a 4" long-throw speaker. (I have a picture of it on the "ever hear of sylvania speakers" thread)The speaker is sealed in the enclosure, with foam behind the speaker, and heavy wood all around. It probably produces 5 or more watts, (it draws 25 watts from the line, is transformer powered, with 2-watt emitter resistors in the output ckt.)and has better bass than ANY table radio I have seen. It appears to have been made to compete with the KLH radios of the day.

The model # is rm-90-k there is one with a slightly different cabinet on the 'bay, right now.

The total tube count is 42, each amplifier chassis has 12 tubes (8-6V6's, 2-5U4's, and 2 12AX7's). The rest of the tubes are on the AM-FM tuner and remote control receiver. I'am about to up the tube count to 45 when I put in the optional FM multiplex adapter that I got on ebay....