Here's a quote from a February 7, 2007, article on the TVPredictions.com web page speculating how the two-year-away switch to all digital over-the-air TV may be premature.

"The Digital TV transition will take place in just two years. And a recent survey by the Association of Public Television Stations says most Americans are still blissfully unaware it will happen. More scary is that viewers who get their TV signals from off-air antennas don't have any idea what's going on. (Cable and satellite viewers will likely be able to get converter boxes from their TV providers.)
If the government doesn't get serious -- and soon -- one of two things will happen:
1. Fearful that their constituents will storm the gates when they suddenly can't watch TV on February 17, 2009, Congress will be forced to extend the deadline another year or two.
2. The deadline will stay in place -- and millions of consumers will lose their TV signals.
The first option would be messy. The second one could be nasty."

I for one don't agree that the first option is 'messy.' One can only hope.

I'm one of those few people whose household gets their television off the air and yet is still aware of the change...AND DOESN'T CARE! :)

I'll still be able to watch my DVD's and laserdiscs -- so I'm happy.

Here's a quote from a February 7, 2007, article on the TVPredictions.com web page speculating how the two-year-away switch to all digital over-the-air TV may be premature.

"The Digital TV transition will take place in just two years. And a recent survey by the Association of Public Television Stations says most Americans are still blissfully unaware it will happen. More scary is that viewers who get their TV signals from off-air antennas don't have any idea what's going on. (Cable and satellite viewers will likely be able to get converter boxes from their TV providers.)
If the government doesn't get serious -- and soon -- one of two things will happen:
1. Fearful that their constituents will storm the gates when they suddenly can't watch TV on February 17, 2009, Congress will be forced to extend the deadline another year or two.
2. The deadline will stay in place -- and millions of consumers will lose their TV signals.
The first option would be messy. The second one could be nasty."

I for one don't agree that the first option is 'messy.' One can only hope.

The next President of the United States gets inaugurated on January 20, 2009 and then on February 17, 2009 NTSC goes dark.... The NEXT President AND Congress is going to get SLAMMED on this.... a lot off yelling about discriminating against the poor is going to get slung. Unfortunately this is a technical issue that degenerates into politics.

It might even become an election issue.

I think probably what will happen is that especially by 2009 the number of people viewing on analog sets will be relatively small...just about every old NTSC set that wears out is being replaced with a digital compatable set when people buy a new set.
Even if NTSC continues to be around indefinitely....before not too long the only people who will own NTSC sets will be old TV enthusiasts. Judging by the age of TV's discarded, the majority of junked sets are only 10-12 years old or less.

Also...satellite and cable do not use the same standards as broadcast digital TV, so what broadcast TV does will not affect viewers of those systems.

I'm one of those few people whose household gets their television off the air and yet is still aware of the change...AND DOESN'T CARE! :)

I watch only digital/HD signals from an antenna, and I don't care either! : )
I watch mostly dvds on my antique sets but if I had to of course, I would pick up a converter for OTA stuff. The bright spot is that digital signals for standard definition is so perfect and noise-free compared to NTSC off an antenna, it will be a net gain for my old sets. When I watch broadcasts on them I already use channel 3 and a vcr anyway, makes for a better more consistent picture from channel to channel and allows using the remote, a convertor would do the same.
Frenchy

I'm one of those few people whose household gets their television off the air and yet is still aware of the change...AND DOESN'T CARE! :)

I'll still be able to watch my DVD's and laserdiscs -- so I'm happy.
Starting July 1, 2007, from what I saw in the February 2007 issue of Scientific American, Michael Antonoff (formerly of Sound & Vision) wrote that even DVD recorders must have a DTV tuner. Perfect! THAT is what I have been waiting for: a device to replace my VCR, record to DVD-RW/DVD+RW, have a DTV tuner, and have an RF output for my analog input TV.
Tom

My comment to Chad is that I have an analog only TV that is only around 3 years old and I suspect that many more people also have these. This TV will only be five at the cutoff. As I have cable and plan to get a converter (one was shown at CES this year), it will not affect me, but it will affect many people who will not be happy when their relatively new TV no longer works. It will also create a gigantic uncessary trash problem, as people will discard analog sets with several years use left in them. A good idea would be to make each HDTV dealer/manufacterer re-cycle one NTSC set for each HDTV set they sell as they are the ones making the bucks from this.

The real question is how well will this work for people who live quite a way from the broadcast station. My mother lives around 70-80 miles away from the nearest broadcast station and can get a reasonable picture using NTSC analog. Does digital broadcast work this well at long distance? With digital, it is either a perfect picture or nothing. If it is nothing for a lot of people, legislators will get an earful.

"(Cable and satellite viewers will likely be able to get converter boxes from their TV providers.)"

Right there the article is suspect. Cable and satellite viewers WILL NOT NEED a converter box beyond whatever they have presently. There will be no sudden switchover for cable and satellite viewers. They already have a box or will continue to receive cable analog signals or will get a cable digital converter box as the systems transition to digital (as many are doing now).

Also as I understand it, digital cable (and satellite) does not use the same standard as broadcast digital TV so the broadcast transition to digital is a moot point for cable/satellite users, you would just continue to use whatever convertor/receiver works with your system...also there is nothing preventing cable systems from continuing to use NTSC analog as cable is not a broadcast system.

Personally I do use mostly old analog TV's connected to a DirecTV receiver (with TV's in the barn connected to an antenna)...I am not necessarily condoning the abandonment of analog, I just wonder how much of an issue it will be with 85% or so of households using cable/satellite for TV reception.
Even the most ramshackle of shacks around here seems to have a DirecTV dish!
Also with the inclusion of digital tuners on TV accesories such as DVD/hard drive recorders this should make digital tuners/convertors more accesible. I would personally like to be able to receive and convert digital broadcast signals but have personally seen no stand-alone device to do it in a store.

---

On my street there are several homes with UHF antennas on the rooftops (UHF Only Market here) and no dishes around and cable stops at my house and goes no further so I wonder how its gonna effect my neighborhood. Where are the ATSC set-top boxes that where suppose to be on store shelves by now? Seems like that was the word going around several years ago. I purchased a US Digital box from wallyworld in 2004 and it works pretty well on most channels except for PBS because they have compressed the heck out of it with multiple channels. and those boxes have since been discontinued. My plan was to get a set top box for each 'off air' channel in my area and re-modulate the signals back into analog for my older sets when the change over occurs. According to the local cable company they have no plans of getting rid of the analog NTSC line-up and that they will switching the analog local channels over to the digital feed sometime next year and that they will still remain on the current analog channel, like no change according to them but who knows, I may subscribe to the basic for the heck of it or all my sets will be set to channel 3 as my CTC 16 is now for Satellite.

With the newer broadcast technology, they can leave the existing analog stations on while pigging backing digital signals, I guess the only reason they will shut down analog is the original reason stated that they would sell off those frequencies to the highest bidder.

Anyone who has any of the satelite services are basically receiving digital signals converted back to analog. The question is how long will they stick with that line up.

It's funny that so many people have been putting off buying a DVD recorder until they make ones with digital tuners. You'd think this demand would cause them to make them, but they aren't doing it until they have to. So much for the free market...
That's precisely the reason I have not bought one: the built-in analog tuner would need a vaporware converter box on D-Day. I have a strong distaste for buying something "just for a couple of years" and then have to buy the latest and greatest to replace it, due to (obviously) planned obsolescence.

Plus, apparently there are people with money to burn, so they figure "Ooh, a new toy! Gimme!", buy an analog-tuner'd DVD recorder, and then think nothing of buying a replacement. Sorry, but money's too hard to come by in my house to toss things so easily. :D Seems half the time, what I or my family consider perfect for us isn't popular with most other folks!

Tom

I have a strong distaste for buying something "just for a couple of years" and then have to buy the latest and greatest to replace it, due to (obviously) planned obsolescence.

Plus, apparently there are people with money to burn, so they figure "Ooh, a new toy! Gimme!", buy an analog-tuner'd DVD recorder, and then think nothing of buying a replacement. Sorry, but money's too hard to come by in my house to toss things so easily. :D Seems half the time, what I or my family consider perfect for us isn't popular with most other folks!

Tom

Just one comment... Planned obsolescence occurs in the free-market, meaning your TV/car/toothbrush might function perfectly well, but you simply don't want to appear to be the neighborhood nutcase or cheapskate because you're watching a 1965 TV set while the rest of the world has moved on to flatscreens.

This is government mandated obsolescence, when the feds FORCE citizens to broadcast (thereby receive) in a different format at the point of a gun. In a true free-market example, both analog and digital would co-exist until broadcasters decided it was no longer cost-effective to pay the electric bill for the analog transmitter.

Peace Out.

...Seems half the time, what I or my family consider perfect for us isn't popular with most other folks!
Tom


Man, does that line ring a harmonic chord here! I suspect I may be seen as a weirdo by some acquaintances because I like the "old-fashioned" stuff that was built to last, instead of plastic junk cranked out with "planned obsolescence" in mind. [I suspect a disproportionate percentage of AKers would feel the same way.] As an American living in (98% Chinese) Hong Kong, I find a lot of things I like are unknown or unpopular here, which only adds to the feeling, and much of the popular culture here (Canto-pop songs, many movies, etc...) has no appeal to me. Very definitely not "mainstream tastes" in this household! :no: :D

Just one comment... Planned obsolescence occurs in the free-market, meaning your TV/car/toothbrush might function perfectly well, but you simply don't want to appear to be the neighborhood nutcase or cheapskate because you're watching a 1965 TV set while the rest of the world has moved on to flatscreens.

This is government mandated obsolescence, when the feds FORCE citizens to broadcast (thereby receive) in a different format at the point of a gun. In a true free-market example, both analog and digital would co-exist until broadcasters decided it was no longer cost-effective to pay the electric bill for the analog transmitter.

Peace Out.
You're quite correct. :yes: Point taken. Perfectly good gear being relegated to the scrap heap for someone else's agenda and potential profit..
Tom

I have almost no experience with satellite tv...how many local tv stations are available over the dish? This would seem to be a real issue to me. As others point out, the most ramshackle old mobile home out in the country has a dish these days but they are getting their local news & weather from rabbit ears, right? I can see this being a real problem for local stations, especially in rural areas where cable hits only a limited area.

As for me, I am still 100% over-the-air analog, and plan to be when the end comes. Looks like I have a couple years to find some deals on digital decoders.

The next President of the United States gets inaugurated on January 20, 2009 and then on February 17, 2009 NTSC goes dark.... The NEXT President AND Congress is going to get SLAMMED on this.... a lot off yelling about discriminating against the poor is going to get slung. Unfortunately this is a technical issue that degenerates into politics.

It might even become an election issue.

At least that's ONE single thing that the public probably won't blame on President Bush.


I think what we'll see is a program of vouchers similar to the incandescent light bulb destruction programs here in Ventura County: The SoCal Edison Co has subsidized the sales of the fluorescent bulbs so that the retailers can sell them for about $1, when they actually cost about $6. They want to phase out all incandescent bulbs in a couple years, and there was an article in the LA Daily News this week about a possible law to ban incandescent bulbs in California.

So we may see TV signal converter boxes for sale at the grocery store for $9, courtesy of the taxpayers. I think I also read here or somewhere that the Feds will put out a program to give one free box to every American household. Trouble with that is that some of us have more than one TV........ Or more than 200? Oh well.

Charles

Hmmm, banning incandescent bulbs? In the words of Lee Ermey: "You gotta be S*&tting me"

Next they're going after the internal combustion engine, chewing gum and potato chips.

Its going to interesting, since I've yet to see an ATSC set-top box for sale at the box stores in the northwest.

Say, I hate to mention this. . But I buy those bulbs on sale at our local hardware store for a dollar, or two dollars at the depot all the time without any subsidy or government light bulb smashing program.

Not everyone ran out and bought a flat-screen HDTV for the Super Bowl. CRT sets easily outsold any other model, including flat-screen LCD's and (choke) plasmas.

A research group, NPD (whoever that is), reported that unit sales of CRT-based direct-view sets jumped 61 percent in the week before the game, and that includes both high-def and analog CRT sets.

The average CRT set was priced at $183, while the average flat-screen set exceeded $1000, which certainly had something to do with keeping the king on the throne for a little longer.

I REALLY hope the Feds get this one shoved up their tucchis like they did w/The Great Seatbelt Interlock Fiasco back in '74...the Imperial Federal Gummint needs to get reminded who's Boss every once in a while...Despite their best efforts to the contrary...

[QUOTE=Pete Deksnis]Not everyone ran out and bought a flat-screen HDTV for the Super Bowl. CRT sets easily outsold any other model, including flat-screen LCD's and (choke) plasmas.
QUOTE]

Just bought my girlie a 32" Sharp tube tv for her birthday to replace her little 19 incher. Just doing my part to keep the 'flame of the tube' alive ; )
It has a great picture and a nice big screen for such a low price. Ok so it was a pain lifting it up into her entertainment center but I needed the exercise anyway : ) Why should I buy a thin set at that size, the picture would suck compared to a tube, and cost 3x as much.
Frenchy

I know we are a tiny portion of the american consumer but what about folks who have several small portable TV's form the past, like the Panasonic CT-101 and Sony indextrons and such?

Guess we're just SOL, pal. You got an Indextron? I thought Sony got all of 'em back....

I haven't heard much lately about the program to provide $40 coupons for up to two $50 ATSC set-top boxes per household lately. Supposedly, there is a program to design and build a $50 set-top box to be made available in early 2009. Only households without cable or satellite will be eligible for the $40 coupons, though, and maybe also only if they are low-income. Considering that there are already 27" CRT TVs available with built-in ATSC tuners for $250, the $50 box should be easy enough to accomplish in the next 1-2 years. (No, of course, neither that $250 TV nor the $50 boxes will be HD, just capable of converting digital signals into NTSC analog, about the same as what a low-end satellite or digital cable box does today.)

I would need to check the standard again,it has been too long, but IIRC the digital signal is supposed to include the old 4:3 525 line screen image so all the box would have to do is decode a digital signal.

Rob

Guess we're just SOL, pal. You got an Indextron? I thought Sony got all of 'em back....

Not all, I have one somewhere that likes to eat it's own horizontal section, and the picture never had that bright, high contrast look of their older, larger 1970's era 5" Trinitrons. I see them on the "We print money" site every couple of months. Going for too much money, the last one I saw was for one that had a white cabinet, said it was for automotive use, and of course "untested" Right.
Richard.

---

---

Hi Andy, We are getting off topic here, but that was the main problem, the horizontal osc. runs somewhere around 15Kcs to get three full screen sweeps for each frame (I may be off here on the Kcs, my gray matter is not what it used to be:scratch2: ) Lots of leaking caps which led to semiconducter failure, plus active matrix lcd's were coming online.

Not all, I have one somewhere that likes to eat it's own horizontal section, and the picture never had that bright, high contrast look of their older, larger 1970's era 5" Trinitrons. I see them on the "We print money" site every couple of months. Going for too much money, the last one I saw was for one that had a white cabinet, said it was for automotive use, and of course "untested" Right.
Richard.

I figured Sony only actually used the Indextron in their Vidimagic 'portable' projection TV. Were there other Sony products (that were actually released) that used the Indextron tube..?

Yes, the one I have (somewhere) is a black cube about six inches, direct crt view. I have not played with it in several years, as mentioned even with mil-spec replacement electrolytics it would never work for more than a couple of months with little use. Plus the new active matrix lcd's had a better(slightly) picture.

Horizontal osc in NTSC is 15,750Hz.

Rob

Thank's Rob, I don't know what I was thinking. I better check my medication.:sigh:

I would need to check the standard again,it has been too long, but IIRC the digital signal is supposed to include the old 4:3 525 line screen image so all the box would have to do is decode a digital signal.

Rob

By general agreement, digital receivers for the US system receive any picture format that is transmitted, from full high-def to standard def, and convert it to the native format of the display. The NTSC converter boxes do/will do the same for conversion to NTSC. This "all-format decode" was not implemented in Europe or anywhere using the DVB standard, so they are now stuck replacing a bunch of gear or duplicating broadcasts in order to start a HD service. A great example of European protectionism for the interests of their large industries, and let the European consumer bear the cost.

The Australian government really screwed it up, when they chose DVB under the false claim that all-format decoders would become available. It never happened, and as a result, they forced simulcasting of analog, digital HD and digital SD of the same program. I don't know if this has actually done anything to promote HDTV in Australia, or just delayed it more.

"[forty dollar] converter coupons will be available beginning this January and they are expected to cover about 60-75 percent of the set-top's cost. Americans will be able to request a coupon via a toll-free number, web site, fax or by regular mail. There will be no income restrictions in applying for the coupons."

It seems even if you have cable or satellite, you're eligible for the handout, at least while the first billion is being dispersed.

Hello to all,

Richard, Andy, i am also a Sony KVX-370 Indextron collector. One has scan, no reception. The other worked 10 hours, now audio hiss, no scan. I would really like to repair them.

I have a pdf version of the full service manual. Free to anyone who wants it.
(16.2 megs, raw data).

I would like to set up a sort of task group of collectors of the KVX-370 to pool the knowledge and help each other fix his set(s).

Here are pictures of mine on the French vintage TV forum while it still worked.

http://retro-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11652

Any volunteers ?

Best Regards

jhalphen@dial.oleane.com

BUT I DO have a Vidimagic projo unit.(FP-60,IIRC) last time I tried to "light it off" it worked somewhat well. That menas that it had a pretty dim picture, albeit with decent color and such, and once in a while, would just "shut down" for no reason.

I also have the factory Sony service manual(all 200+ pages of it, in a notebook binder) for my unit!! it explains the BI system pretty well---and in my set00the index control ckty. is VERY basic, using a large number of discrete components and small chips, on a board about 5"by7" or so. The back of the tube glows green from the index phospor. it IS neat to watch in operation!!

The Australian government really screwed it up, when they chose DVB under the false claim that all-format decoders would become available. It never happened, and as a result, they forced simulcasting of analog, digital HD and digital SD of the same program. I don't know if this has actually done anything to promote HDTV in Australia, or just delayed it more.

The currently available HD DVB boxes will down convert HD to SD for display on SD analog sets. If these boxes (or at least boxes that could decode HD even if they could only output SD) were available from the start of DVB broadcasting we wouldn't be stuck with triplecasting everything. This doesn't leave enough bandwidth for true HD. At least one channel tries to gain back some bandwidth by reducing the error correction. Its a lose/lose situation as those who've gone HD aren't getting what they paid for and everyone gets glitches when the reception is anything less than perfect.

I grabbed an Thomson SD box when a "faulty" one came my way for $5. It actually does work better than some of the boxes that have been brought in for repair, but I still prefer to watch the analog signal.

The bigger joke is the ads on digital cable for HD. Their signal is SD only and often compressed more than over the air SD. I've seen some programs that look like a dodgy rip downloaded off p2p.

I have a pdf version of the full service manual. Free to anyone who wants it.
(16.2 megs, raw data).

I would like to set up a sort of task group of collectors of the KVX-370 to pool the knowledge and help each other fix his set(s).

Thank you for your offer, I would like to look at your PDF service manual. As you can see from my previous post I need to refresh my memory on these little guys and would and use my set as a test bed and share whatever I find with others.
Thanks,
Richard

[QUOTE=Pete Deksnis]"[forty dollar] [I]converter coupons will be available beginning this January and they are expected to cover about 60-75 percent of the set-top's cost. "

The only set top boxes these coupons 'cover' decode ATSC but down convert it to NTSC and output analog stereo sound, composite and S-Video only. No Y, R-Y, B-Y, no 480p, 720p or 1080i, and no 5.1 Ch, SPDIF or TOSLINK. The specs are here:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/otiahome/dtv/DTVmanufacturers.pdf

I have yet to see any of these 'coupon offer' set top boxes for sale anywhere, and from what I have read none are being manufactured yet. They
seem to be vaporware at this point.

Also, it probably is not general knowledge, but there is NO legal requirement for any broadcaster to transmit HDTV signals. The only broadcast required by law is a digital version of the same standard definition signal that the broadcaster is currently sending out in NTSC.

Further, the cable and satellite companies do not want the general public to know about free over the air digital broadcasting because it cuts into their
profits. Some cable companies have even threatened broadcasters with pulling their ads from the station if they promote their free OTA channel number in their broadcasts.

Do any stations anywhere promote their digital TV channels? Not in the Philly area. Most people have no idea what's coming in 2009.

~the Cliff who is saddened by the current state of affairs in broadcasting.

Don't get me started on the idiocy of tv standards in my country .....Australia's switch to digital transmission has been totally stuffed by artificial rules to look after the current networks (who seem strangely to support the current government!!)...funny that .... but then our cable rules are equally dumb ...and there is no HD cable ....and of course hardly any HDTV broadcasting in 1080i...mainly becaus ethe networks want to use the bandwidth to multicast!!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Hi Richard,

Please give me your E-Mail address so that i can send you the Indextron (KVX-370) pdf manual.

Best Regards

jhalphen at dial dot oleane dot com

Sure can, dallk01@aol.com Thanks for sharing it. I will keep you posted.
Richard.

I have a pdf version of the full service manual. Free to anyone who wants it.
(16.2 megs, raw data).

I would like to set up a sort of task group of collectors of the KVX-370 to pool the knowledge and help each other fix his set(s).

Thank you for your offer, I would like to look at your PDF service manual. As you can see from my previous post I need to refresh my memory on these little guys and would and use my set as a test bed and share whatever I find with others.
Thanks,
Richard

Can you upload the service manual for me?

New news today!

DIGITAL TV

The government is relying mostly on broadcasters to tell people that non-digital televisions will not get over-the-air signals after February 2009, the Senate Commerce Committee was told. The government is spending only $5 million to let people know about the changeover from analog to digital signals. Critics say the government should do more.


polaraman

You would think that the news coverage of how the FCC should auction off the TV frequency spectrum would give everyone a clue. I would not expect too much from this clueless administration.

You would think that the news coverage of how the FCC should auction off the TV frequency spectrum would give everyone a clue. I would not expect too much from this clueless administration.

I think that is wrong, auctioning off the spectrum, it is not a limitless resource and it should be held in common for all. I'm sorry if I'm touching politics, but I feel bad for voting for this current administration twice although the other side is just as bad and has nothing to offer either. No matter who you vote for, the common people get rolled over. I'll just leave it at that.

Can you upload the service manual for me?

Hello, Check with member Jhalphen. He is the gentleman who sent it to me, I burned it to a disc and gave it and my Indextron to a friend.
If I can get it back I will be happy to send it to you.
Richard.

Hello aafuss,

Give me your E-Mail address, i will send you the complete KVX-370 "Indextron" Service Manual + schematics.

Do you own an Indextron ?
Working or not ?

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

I think that is wrong, auctioning off the spectrum, it is not a limitless resource and it should be held in common for all. I'm sorry if I'm touching politics, but I feel bad for voting for this current administration twice although the other side is just as bad and has nothing to offer either. No matter who you vote for, the common people get rolled over. I'll just leave it at that.I agree completely with this.

Selling off the spectrum to private interests will mean our government will no longer have the vehical to easily communicate to the public over the air. There are still many families not hooked up to satelite or cable. Digital technology is great but if there are no more VHF channels left its not going to travel any kind of distance over UHF. In case of national emergency there will be significant areas not covered by UHF and that means the public at large will not get proper instruction from our federal government.

The VHF spectrum needs to be kept in the public domain IMO.

IMO, the AM radio band is what should really be used an an emergency. It works well and there are many 50KW stations. As far as free over the air TV their days are numbered. They will just become program supplyers to cable and Satelite when 2009 comes around very few people will use the 8VSB signals

Well it appears the corporations have already figured out how to get us paying for bottled water and finally have figured it out how we are going to lose our free television.

Makes you kind of wonder when they will figure out how to charge us for breathing the air.

[QUOTE=Carmine]"...your TV/car/toothbrush might function perfectly well, but you simply don't want to appear to be the neighborhood nutcase or cheapskate because you're watching a 1965 TV set while the rest of the world has moved on to flatscreens."

People must really think I'm the nutcase then (drive a '60s car, use rotary phones and no cell phone, use a typewriter, have 8-tracks, etc.)

Not all of us are paying for our TV reception. I dropped satellite TV in December 2005 and have saved US$1,615.00 so far, that I used toward more worthwhile entertainment options.

I use a roof TV antenna, and I receive more free TV signals than ever before. Yep, it's... umm... Digital TV.

Those foolish enough to pay for bottled water (tap water from somewhere else) get what they deserve!

Sorry, just had to respond to the bottled water comment.

Boy, broadcast television I have to pay for? I cant wait!

The idea that "free" broadcast TV will disappear is silly. Some form of advertiser supported television (and radio) will always be with us. Advertisers need a vehicle, and broadcast TV is perfect for them. Remember that "free" TV is not free - we pay for it every day when we buy toothpaste, cereal, or any other product.

When 80% are paying for "free" TV it's not free any more. All that will end up really being free will be the channels that just have lots of advertising on them. It could be end up being all of their broadcast time. We already have that with shopping channels. Advertisers already are paying to be on "cable networks". The problem is the cable neworks are able to get money from both the viewer and advertisers so their programming will be better they will be able to pay for it. Broadcast TV will not disapper but most of the users of it will.

USA Today article on the death of Analog TV signal!

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/services/2007-08-06-digital-TV-cover_N.htm


polaraman

Comments from the article:

I don't have a digital TV, my parents got one though and they only have a few stations that broadcast in digital and they said the signal is terrible. I had digital tiered cable and got rid of it because I was sick of losing the signal even in good weather...you get that pixalated look and it's awful. Analog, sure you get weaker sometimes, but at least that is only in bad weather. Granted, my TV wasn't digital and I thought that was part of it, but after talking to my parents I have been digging heels in on having to get a new TV, particularly since my TV isn't that old. And for those questioning rabbit ears, until I was able to run cable back to my bedroom, I had only rabbit ears back there and was able to get quite a few local channels with it if you live in a major metro area. And I know lots of people that don't want to pay the high prices of cable. It's creating a bigger monopoly and for those on fixed incomes or those that don't want to pay, they should still be able to receive their basic channels without an expense. This whole thing is ridiculous.


if you are still using an antenna then you are probably using a wood burning stove & have an outhouse.

The change from analog to digital has nothing to do with money. From what they've been telling us for several years and the half-dozen articles I've read on the problem is that analog waveforms are contributing to global warming. The continuous sinusoindal waveform of an analog signal traps heat in the lower half of the troposphere where as the on and off nature of a digital signal allows heat to escape back into space whenever the signal goes low or to the off state.

That last quote is quite a zinger. I hope the person does not actually believe that. (Of course, I just saw an adverstisement for a "physic fair", on TV, some people will believe anything"

There are a lot of people who have TVs in there bedrooms, workshops, etc, that are still just on antenna while their main TV is on cable or satellite. Unless new TVs are purchased, the loss of the analog signal will kill this. As far as completely loosing their free TV, I think people in rural areas are at greatest risk. With analog, at least you can get a snowy picture at long distances. With digital, (even though you have the new digital TV) you will probably get nothing.

To me, the whole thing is just another way for the large corporations to make money at the little guy's expense. A bad idea all around.

I already have a digital tuner hooked to some of my old sets on an antenna. I get the local channels with pretty good reception, but the comment about pixalization in quote one is very true. The sound also quits, while on the analog signal, the sound is present, even with a very weak and snowy picture.

That last quote is quite a zinger. I hope the person does not actually believe that. (Of course, I just saw an adverstisement for a "physic fair", on TV, some people will believe anything"

There are a lot of people who have TVs in there bedrooms, workshops, etc, that are still just on antenna while their main TV is on cable or satellite. Unless new TVs are purchased, the loss of the analog signal will kill this. As far as completely loosing their free TV, I think people in rural areas are at greatest risk. With analog, at least you can get a snowy picture at long distances. With digital, (even though you have the new digital TV) you will probably get nothing.

To me, the whole thing is just another way for the large corporations to make money at the little guy's expense. A bad idea all around.

I already have a digital tuner hooked to some of my old sets on an antenna. I get the local channels with pretty good reception, but the comment about pixalization in quote one is very true. The sound also quits, while on the analog signal, the sound is present, even with a very weak and snowy picture.

Up here in the Great White North, incandescent bulbs will be phased out in 2012.
No idea on digital Television and the standards. My guess Canada will hang on to the analog format a bit longer than 2009. I guess that means my 1989 RCA colortrack 2000 will have to hang on a bit longer.

The new energy efficent bulbs do use qute a bit less electricity and last a long time, but each one contains a small amount of mercury. This makes them more harmful to the enviroment than the old incandescent bulbs when discarded. Does Canada have a plan to recycle the incandescent bulb replacements?

They are already covered under guidelines for disposal of toxic/harmful substances, so yes.

I am glad that Canada has had the forsight to do this. In the US, I think California is also going to ban incandescents. I hope they also have a plan.

Here in Texas, no ban and no plan exist at present. The nearest place to recycle these is 40 miles away from me at an Ikea store(the store's idea, not Texas).

In rural areas of Texas/Oklahoma it is common (although against the law) to see trash in the roadside gullies, so some of the Mercury will end up in the enviroment. Probably not a drop in the bucket compared to all of the motor oil that has been put into the ground in the last 75 years though.

---

Welcome to the nanny state....

If they do I will stock up on incandescents. Flourescent lamps hurt my wife's eyes and our opthalmologist will attest to that fact, so the government can kiss my a,,,. The builder put a flourescent fixture over the kitchen sink, not finding what we wanted I used parts to make an incandescent fixture and put the old one over a workbench, since they don't bother me.

All of this environmental crap really frosts me. We have installed an energy efficient heat pump, appliances, had the house built with 2 x 6 exterior walls and equivalent insulation years ago, now they are talking tax breaks, what timing. We did it because the electric companies here in the US are bandits. When I lived in Nepean (Ottawa) they billed me every second month because it was not worth sending someone around to read the meter each month.

[QUOTE=merrylander;1286939]If they do I will stock up on incandescents. Flourescent lamps hurt my wife's eyes and our opthalmologist will attest to that fact, so the government can kiss my a,,,. The builder put a flourescent fixture over the kitchen sink, not finding what we wanted I used parts to make an incandescent fixture and put the old one over a workbench, since they don't bother me.

Have you tried a flouresent fixture with a high frequency ballast transformer? I know someone who was getting headaches with standard 60 cycle ballasts, the expensive ones switch at around 20,000 cycles and stops flicker and her headaches.

I agree completely with this.

Selling off the spectrum to private interests will mean our government will no longer have the vehical to easily communicate to the public over the air. There are still many families not hooked up to satelite or cable. Digital technology is great but if there are no more VHF channels left its not going to travel any kind of distance over UHF. In case of national emergency there will be significant areas not covered by UHF and that means the public at large will not get proper instruction from our federal government.

The VHF spectrum needs to be kept in the public domain IMO.

True although we still have the AM band for this. I think the point is that we are selling off a very limited resource because of the "Wal*Mart mentality" in order to make a buck. I'm not against making a buck but there are times that the public interests should be above that. I just think that we should have both systems going at once and for once let the people decide. If at some point NTSC goes away, well, that could happen or if HDTV never catches on, well, I think the FCC should set aside some channels and let the people decide. I hear HDTV sales are not doing as well so who knows, maybe 2009, NTSC will still be around beyond the shutoff date.

Up here in the Great White North, incandescent bulbs will be phased out in 2012.
No idea on digital Television and the standards. My guess Canada will hang on to the analog format a bit longer than 2009. I guess that means my 1989 RCA colortrack 2000 will have to hang on a bit longer.

Hmmm, if I could, I'd load up the old Explorer with incandescent lightbulbs and go up north to Canada and sell them. :scratch2: Maybe I could start my own black market syndicate. Heck with drugs and booze, I could make a mint selling old style light bulbs in Canada and bring down 3.5 gallon toilets and sell them here in the U.S.:D

Hmmm, if I could, I'd load up the old Explorer with incandescent lightbulbs and go up north to Canada and sell them. :scratch2: Maybe I could start my own black market syndicate. Heck with drugs and booze, I could make a mint selling old style light bulbs in Canada and bring down 3.5 gallon toilets and sell them here in the U.S.:D

Great idea, except that the compact fluorescent bulbs are selling very well up here due to higher energy costs to the consumer.....but if you got something else to trade for our big flush toilets, then please do so. :D :thmbsp:

But I might have to load up on incandescent flood lamps for outdoor use. CFL's don't work worth a shit in our winters.

I finally found a Samsung HD STB. After months of looking, finally seems like the most appropriate word.

Get this: in my neck of the woods, CBC broadcasts digitally in 1080i, irrespective of programming source. So when they transmit 480 programming, the picture is a box, inside a letterbox. When I put the box on "zoom" it swells the picture up too much, making things worse. I tried every combination of screen size and zoom, to no avail. SD will be in a smaller letterbox screen. Although, if I use the "16x9" mode where the tv shrinks the raster down vertically, an SD picture is even smaller albeit correctly proportioned. The HD (already in letterbox) programming though looks good in 480i and on the TV's 16x9 mode.

Although this box seems to work well off a simple UHF hoop, the composite output does not feature the OSD menus and displays, which is only available on the component output.

Either way, my collection of classic Sony TV's will be relegated to bordered 60% screens and letterboxes. It will be a very cool day in hell when I buy an ILO, or PRIMO LCD from Sprawlmart.

Blame Kyoto Accord for the light bulb fiasco. I've had some CFLs "pop" without warning when powered on and they don't run cool like they've advertised. 90% of the power in my area is hydroelectrically generated, which is already "green" compared to coal.

Anyone ever place their hand in front of a large plasma tv? All that heat dissipating from the panel, thats got to be good an' green for the environment.

I have almost no experience with satellite tv...how many local tv stations are available over the dish? This would seem to be a real issue to me. As others point out, the most ramshackle old mobile home out in the country has a dish these days but they are getting their local news & weather from rabbit ears, right? I can see this being a real problem for local stations, especially in rural areas where cable hits only a limited area.

As for me, I am still 100% over-the-air analog, and plan to be when the end comes. Looks like I have a couple years to find some deals on digital decoders.

satellite TV such as dish network or direcTV has a shitload of locals that come down the dish.

but the FCC rulled no distant locals, so if your caught in between local markets, your screwed.

[QUOTE=Richard D;1287147][QUOTE=merrylander;1286939]

"Have you tried a flouresent fixture with a high frequency ballast transformer? I know someone who was getting headaches with standard 60 cycle ballasts..."

But how will you be able to properly set the speed of your turntable using a 60 cycle strobe disk with a 20kHz fluorescent light??

First you get a big 12 digit calculator, then you divide 20,000 by 60, no that's not right, you multiply 60 times the distance between the stylus and the center of the platter, wait, no that's not right, uhh, I KNOW! you turn on the neon lamp that came on the side of your turntable :):thmbsp:

90% of the power in my area is hydroelectrically generated, which is already "green" compared to coal.


I watch a lot of CBC in Detroit, so I see all the Canadian evironmental propaganda (shows are better though :thmbsp:). I had the same thought regarding hydro-power. You got David Suzuki popping up in people's houses, telling them to dump their old (working) fridge in favor of one with an energy-star rating.

So I think... How much pollution dumped into the river/air at the LG plant in China? How much oil burned shipping it 10,000 miles? And this is to save some fractional percentage of electricity in a nation that uses mostly hydo and nuclear...? Not to mention their portrayal of the average Canadian male being a lunkhead who only does it to save money for "more beer".

It's pretty obvious that all governments like to consider their citizens to be dopes, ironically while selling them a load of BS that makes NO environmental sense when you think about it. :rolleyes:

Anyone ever place their hand in front of a large plasma tv? All that heat dissipating from the panel, thats got to be good an' green for the environment.

Never mind that, how about the heat coming out the top vents? You could put bread up there and make toast! : 0
Looked at the back of my new DirectTV receiver/dvr - 65 watts, nothing to sneeze at, and that's not even the tv.

When 80% are paying for "free" TV it's not free any more. All that will end up really being free will be the channels that just have lots of advertising on them. It could be end up being all of their broadcast time. We already have that with shopping channels. Advertisers already are paying to be on "cable networks". The problem is the cable neworks are able to get money from both the viewer and advertisers so their programming will be better they will be able to pay for it. Broadcast TV will not disapper but most of the users of it will.

I just got DirectTV hooked up and I would heartily recommend anybody who has cable or dish - get a DVR! It actually makes the satellite bill worth paying... can just save up all the shows I love to watch automatically, watch them whenever I want, and can skip commercial breaks in a couple of seconds with the remote.
After only a few weeks I can't imagine watching cable or dish without this DVR, best thing since tv was invented.

quote frenchy: "65 watts, nothing to sneeze at, and that's not even the tv."

Now you guys are hitting on one of my favorite games... efficiency.

Remember that NTSC-ATSC RCA 14-incher another AK'er and I bought a couple of months ago? Forty-four watts it takes. That's like nothing. Swear to god, I sometimes use it as a nightlight! :no: :yes: :D

......David Suzuki, don't get me started. On behalf of Canadians everywhere, let me formally apologize for sticking him and his Toyota Prius onto the world. If it weren't for canadian content rules I'd think he'd still be stuck in a classroom at the University of British Columbia.

One of my middle school science teachers absolutely had the world's biggest crush on him (was a prof of hers at U.B.C.) and forced the entire class to endure his shows (Oh the pain). If you wanted to get an "A" in that class, you had to write your reports in his third person interrogative and voila!

"The Nature of Things" doesn't get any more interesting in 1080i.

Given the sheer high cost of Canadian beer in Canada (yes, it's more expensive here than in the US)....
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/images/smilies/scratch2.gif

My Sony KV-1206 only takes 65W of power, and it was made in 1979.

I guess that with fewer components and at least 28 more years of development in the Wal-martron tv you'd think that they would have come down more?

Shit, my 1989 RCA Colortrack 2000 draws nearly 200 watts.

I watch a lot of CBC in Detroit, so I see all the Canadian evironmental propaganda (shows are better though :thmbsp:). I had the same thought regarding hydro-power. You got David Suzuki popping up in people's houses, telling them to dump their old (working) fridge in favor of one with an energy-star rating.

So I think... How much pollution dumped into the river/air at the LG plant in China? How much oil burned shipping it 10,000 miles? And this is to save some fractional percentage of electricity in a nation that uses mostly hydo and nuclear...? Not to mention their portrayal of the average Canadian male being a lunkhead who only does it to save money for "more beer".

It's pretty obvious that all governments like to consider their citizens to be dopes, ironically while selling them a load of BS that makes NO environmental sense when you think about it. :rolleyes:
http://www.antiqueappliances.com/graphics/products/general_electric/1939_ge_refrigerator/1.jpg
Back in high school I worked on the team that ran the school website. We used to keep pop in a 1942 GE Fridge in the server room. The school was built in 1965, so the fridge was old even then, and had probably been donated by a teacher. its been running non stop, in the same spot, for over 40 years. Its never needed repair, coolant, or any mechanical parts. The Ecology Club kept hounding us to get rid of it because they believed it was "inefficient" and "an old piece of junk." So, they hooked it up to a watt-hour meter and left it for a week. To make a long story short, a 65 year old fridge bested the EnergyStar requirement by leaps and bounds, and the Junior Environazis ate crow. Two years have passed and its still plugging along.

accidental doublepost

QUOTE fsjonsey: ...a 65 year old fridge bested the EnergyStar requirement by leaps and bounds....

Great story. The biggest power hogs have to be frost-free refrigerator types, especially those from the sixties. I shut down my old apartment-supplied frost-free Kenmore, replaced it with a new 4 cu. ft'er that draws 70 watts when running. Damn near cut the power bill in half.

Back in high school I worked on the team that ran the school website.


You do realize, jonsey, that your are making some of us feel awfully old? :) Well, we did have Apple IIe's when I was in school...

I would agree that frost-free has come a long way, and continues to do so. When my 1990 Signature 2000 refrigerator died my wife talked me into getting this massive Frigidaire side-by-side. I thought the electric bill would shoot up but it actually went down slightly.

You think you're old? We only had calculators in high school physics, and they wern't even ours - they were too expensive for everybody to have so the teacher loaned them to us during class.

Have i mentioned that working unrestored examples of that fridge have sold for more than $3000? And its just sitting in a back room... Im not too suprised though, as the school has a number of all tube RCA Lyceum TV's, both color and b&w, that are still in daily use, connected to DVD players. The school does have one old portable open reel VTR, that they used to videotape educational shows off of television back in the late 60's-early 70's.

"Washington, D.C. (September 5, 2007) -- The satellite TV industry's disclosure that it may not meet the 2009 Digital TV deadline is more evidence that the transition is not proceeding smoothly.

The disclosure may also increase calls from lawmakers to push back the February 17, 2009 transition date by several months at least to ensure that no TV viewer is left behind when the nation switches from analog to digital.

.
.
.

...and most Americans [are] still unaware of the Digital TV transition, which is just 17 months away -- it's hard to see how Congress won't intervene next year and push this thing back, perhaps to 2010."

How did you mean about satellite TV not being ready for the digital conversion?
As far as I know the 2009 date is only for broadcast over-the-air TV...not cable or satellite which can use any transmission scheme they choose.
Plus all Direct TV and Dish Network is already transmitted digitally and HDTV is available. The only incompatability I see would be between older satellite receivers which only have analog video/RF outputs and purely digital TV's.

I still think the amount of analog TV's still in use in 2009 which depend upon an over-the-air broadcast signal (not cable or satellite) will be very small. Everyone I know has converted to digital flat screen sets. One place I read that 40% of American homes already have HDTV's...not counting digital SD sets.

As far as Refrigerators, I have a late 1940's or early 50's GE with top freezer that works great still! The old fridges have only the compressor (no fans or defrost heaters like modern ones) and are very quiet and much more efficient.

How did you mean about satellite TV not being ready for the digital conversion?
As far as I know the 2009 date is only for broadcast over-the-air TV...not cable or satellite which can use any transmission scheme they choose.
Plus all Direct TV and Dish Network is already transmitted digitally and HDTV is available. The only incompatability I see would be between older satellite receivers which only have analog video/RF outputs and purely digital TV's.

I still think the amount of analog TV's still in use in 2009 which depend upon an over-the-air broadcast signal (not cable or satellite) will be very small. Everyone I know has converted to digital flat screen sets. One place I read that 40% of American homes already have HDTV's...not counting digital SD sets.

As far as Refrigerators, I have a late 1940's or early 50's GE with top freezer that works great still! The old fridges have only the compressor (no fans or defrost heaters like modern ones) and are very quiet and much more efficient.


I have a 1938 Frigidare that still works, it was the samily refrigerator during the time my mother grew up.

I still think the amount of analog TV's still in use in 2009 which depend upon an over-the-air broadcast signal (not cable or satellite) will be very small. Everyone I know has converted to digital flat screen sets. One place I read that 40% of American homes already have HDTV's...not counting digital SD sets.



Had this strange thought: Someone somewheres decides to build and operate a pirate analog TV station the next day after the official analog TV shutdown, on a newly vacated TV channel. Wonder what program material he'd broadcast...

You know, that just reminded me of something...translator and low power TV stations are not required to convert to digital! they can still broadcast analog even after the 2009 conversion deadline. Seems kind of odd that they would require full power stations to be digital but allow analog low-power.
Here is some information:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/otiahome/dtv/lptv.html

The converters are not vaporware. I have one. They do seem to be only available by mail order though. I purchased mine from Newegg.com.

It works ok on over-the-air signals as I am fairly close to the transmitters. As long as it does work, it is great-no snow at all. When it doesn't work it is fairly irritating as the picture pixellates or freezes and the sound stops.

One thing that I have found is that the stations HDTV signal strength varies greatly here-Austin, Texas. The lone VHF station(thanks to LBJ), Fox, has a very weak HDTV signal, but a very strong analog signal. I cannot receive their HDTV signal(As do not ever watch them, it does not matter to me). I can receive the other network stations on HDTV as well as their UHF analog signals. The suprise is PBS. I get them much better with two seperate channels on HTDV, but can barely recieve their analog UHF single channel signal.

I do not know if the stations will change their HDTV signal transmit power levels here once the analog signals are turned off.

I do not know if the stations will change their HDTV signal transmit power levels here once the analog signals are turned off.
I'm having an awful time with reception as well. The old VHF antenna still on the shingles of my roof won't work at all for UHF digital. So I hosted a UHF antenna onto a 15 foot pipe anchored to my chimney and even at that I can't get anything in the summer. After the tree leaves fall I can get most of the stations in the winter though.

I'm afraid thats about as tall as I can go with the antenna before I get into trouble with wind problems. I don't think the neighborhood will approve of a bigger tower than I have either.

I bought a LG DVD recorder with the complete digital tuner...NTSC/ATSC/QAM. It is true HD via the HDMI connector to a LG LCD with HDMI input. No HD on the component outputs.

My local Comcast passes the local over-the-air HD with varying success. Some days better than others. Not sure if they are fiber connected or just off-air themselves at the local head-end. No ESPN, HBO HD, but enough for me.

Dave A

Have i mentioned that working unrestored examples of that fridge have sold for more than $3000? And its just sitting in a back room... Im not too suprised though, as the school has a number of all tube RCA Lyceum TV's, both color and b&w, that are still in daily use, connected to DVD players. The school does have one old portable open reel VTR, that they used to videotape educational shows off of television back in the late 60's-early 70's.


I started 1st grade in September, 1983 and my school still had several of those 23" tube type RCA Mural TV's with all the jacks on the back. All program material was on U-Matic videotapes (machines were Sony). They finally got a VHS machine in '87 and we thought we were big time! All of this equipment was housed on roll around metal carts. Then, around '89; all the rooms were outfitted with 20" Magnavox sets connected to an elaborate CCTV system. I think the Magnavox sets are still in use. BTW, we also had a bunch of those old tube type Califone record players. I talked to a friend of mine that works for the school district and all that stuff was trashed years ago, according to him. It's a shame that they'd rather throw good old stuff away instead of offering it to someone who would enjoy it.

How did you mean about satellite TV not being ready for the digital conversion?Note the quotes. Words were not mine. But the article noted the sat/cable companies were bitching about not having enough time to upgrade/switch their facilities from grabbing local analog channels they now carry, to their local digital equivalents.

Also, I strongly suspect that much of the lousy digital reception we now experience will go away once the analog channels are turned off and stop interfering with 8-VSB they skip in on top of during the summer. Hope so anyway.

Pete

For the $15 Billion or so the FCC will get, I would have gladly paid my fair share to keep things the way they are. At 300 million citizens at $50 a piece the whole auction is a scam; just so Verizon can pod er, broadcast their music videos.

I have the same fridge in my garage. It's full of my rolls of unexposed filmstock. Every year my city has a "throw anything of any size you want in a big pile on the curb and we will pick it up and dispose of it for free" Well, as you might guess, this becomes a scavenger's dream. On the way home one weekend, my wife and I spied this fridge on the sidewalk of a house at the end of our block with a "WORKS - FREE" sign taped to it. She liked the styling so much she asked me to go get it and bring it home. I took the utility dolly, walked over to the house, put the fridge on it, and wheeled it home where it sits to this day. I did splice a new cord onto it and install a new rubber gasket on the door. It never really made any noticeable difference in the power consumption of our home. I guess it's because it's a liquid, what is it ammonia? being pumped through the coils? I can hear sloshing when the motor turns on.

Anyway, the reason I came into this thread. I saw this article in the local paper today: http://www.siliconvalley.com/ci_6817408?nclick_check=1


Cable companies launch $200 million ad campaign on switch to digital broadcasting
Associated Press
Article Launched: 09/06/2007 08:59:12 AM PDT

WASHINGTON - The cable television industry has launched a $200 million advertising campaign to assure customers they will still be able to watch their favorite programs after the transition to digital broadcasting.

The ad campaign includes four 30-second spots to be aired on both broadcast and cable networks. Ads began airing in the Washington, D.C., market this week.

The spots open with a graphic that reads: "By law TV stations will end analog broadcasts on February 17, 2009, and broadcast exclusively in digital." That's followed by cable customers assuring viewers that "every TV set you have that's hooked up to cable will work just fine."

Kyle McSlarrow, president and CEO of the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, said the industry is following through on a promise made to Congress to help educate consumers on the transition.

"While it may be a broadcaster transition, we felt we had a responsibility to participate in a big way," he said in an interview Thursday.

The biggest impact of the digital transition will be felt by those who receive their signals over the air and do not own digital-ready television sets.

Those viewers will need a converter box, the cost of which will be mostly covered by a government-funded coupon program.

A 2005 report by the Government Accountability Office said 21 million households - roughly 19 percent of the nation - rely on antennae rather than cable or satellite to receive television signals.

Cable subscribers, McSlarrow said, will not be affected, including those who subscribe to analog rather than the more expensive digital service. There is no federal requirement that the industry continue to provide an analog signal, though the FCC has scheduled a vote on Tuesday that may force them to do so.

Advocates for the elderly and minorities are concerned the public will be caught by surprise by the transition. While Congress appropriated $1.5 billion for the coupon program, only $5 million of the total is dedicated to a public education campaign.

The $200 million advertising campaign includes both ads that have been purchased on broadcast channels and donated time from cable systems, the cable association said. It will run through the digital transition date.

The National Association of Broadcasters has pledged to begin its own campaign beginning in December.

---

On the Net:

To see the ads: www.ncta.com/dtvspots

I started 1st grade in September, 1983 and my school still had several of those 23" tube type RCA Mural TV's with all the jacks on the back. All program material was on U-Matic videotapes (machines were Sony). They finally got a VHS machine in '87 and we thought we were big time! All of this equipment was housed on roll around metal carts. Then, around '89; all the rooms were outfitted with 20" Magnavox sets connected to an elaborate CCTV system. I think the Magnavox sets are still in use. BTW, we also had a bunch of those old tube type Califone record players. I talked to a friend of mine that works for the school district and all that stuff was trashed years ago, according to him. It's a shame that they'd rather throw good old stuff away instead of offering it to someone who would enjoy it.

I remember those Califone record players too. I started first grade in 1973 and back then, we still had the old Setchell-Carlson 21" B&W school TV sets. I also remember we used the old Bell & Howell 16mm movie projectors wiht the old films from Coronet, IIRC, you can download some of that old stuff at www.archive.org. When I got to juniour high about 1979 or so, we started to see VHS VCR's and the like. As to the old stuff, it is a shame it did get trashed. :( BTW, anyone remember filmstrips where you turned when you heard the "ding" from the record/cassette? ;)

Off-topic, but since I brought it up...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Chromacolor2/frdge.jpg

My 1949 Kelvinator. Inside is as nice as the outside.

There is a better chance you find David Suzuki inside of it, than of him convincing me to trash it for some Chinese junk! :D

Carmine, that is a BEAUTY!:thmbsp:I still have to get a 50's refrigerator someday ... but everytime I have money to put my hands on one, a 50's TV set appear ... and since 50's TVs are rarer than 50's refrigerators ( where I live ) I keep postponing the acquisition of a vintage refrigerator.

I remember those Califone record players too. I started first grade in 1973 and back then, we still had the old Setchell-Carlson 21" B&W school TV sets. I also remember we used the old Bell & Howell 16mm movie projectors wiht the old films from Coronet, IIRC, you can download some of that old stuff at www.archive.org. When I got to juniour high about 1979 or so, we started to see VHS VCR's and the like. As to the old stuff, it is a shame it did get trashed. :( BTW, anyone remember filmstrips where you turned when you heard the "ding" from the record/cassette? ;)

Yes, I remember those little filmstrips (and the projectors) that had the soundtrack on a record or cassette. I found one of those little projectors from the '50's or '60's awhile back. I also remember our school watching Rudolph on large movie reels on the last day of school before Christmas vacation. And, I remember seeing a tube type Wollensak reel to reel recorder being used when I was in the 10th grade. My current teacher friends are telling me that most everything is on some sort of digital format. VHS and audio cassette tapes are almost a thing of the past.

BTW, anyone remember filmstrips where you turned when you heard the "ding" from the record/cassette?

We had those in high school back around 1970. One kid who worked the projector had to advance the filmstrip when the record sounded the beep. Once, in the auditorium, we had to watch some lame presentation about college admissions, and some kids could accurately reproduce the beep and that would cause the kid working the projector to advance the filmstrip too early. Eventually he'd run out of filmstrip... :D

Yep, we had those same record players-the same "Filmo" filmstrip projectors. U-Matic vcrs until the mid-80s. Locally, at least, that stuff didn't get tossed but was sold at annual surplus auctions. I wish I had taken the time to attend them now. I'm sure all that good old stuff is now gone. I do have one of my high schools old 16mm Kodak projectors-it went through a couple hands between the surplus auction and me. What I really wished I had was the clean Zenith Chromacolor that Mr. Sanders had-or the Panasonic open reel video recorder sitting next to it.

Yep, we had those same record players-the same "Filmo" filmstrip projectors. U-Matic vcrs until the mid-80s. Locally, at least, that stuff didn't get tossed but was sold at annual surplus auctions. I wish I had taken the time to attend them now. I'm sure all that good old stuff is now gone. I do have one of my high schools old 16mm Kodak projectors-it went through a couple hands between the surplus auction and me. What I really wished I had was the clean Zenith Chromacolor that Mr. Sanders had-or the Panasonic open reel video recorder sitting next to it.


We had U-Matics as well. Also, when I was in grade school, 3rd grade (1975/76), I remember the class I was in watched the Peanuts Christmas special that was taped on an old Sony 1 inch reel-to-reel VTR and the TV was black and white. BTW, did you get some old 16mm films too?

Having graduated highschool in 1998, is it sad that I too remember the "turn slide at beep" projectors?

I have one projector with a built-in phonograph; I think it even advances the film automatically when it hears the beep, but I can't remember.

I do have a stash of 16mm stuff. Nothing from my school, but some that came out of a library and some other cool stuff.

Having graduated highschool in 1998, is it sad that I too remember the "turn slide at beep" projectors?

Not if you were 58 years old! :)

Sorry, couldn't resist a lame joke...

Hi folks:

from the New York Times:

... At the same time, in the face of an F.C.C. edict that will
terminate all analog broadcasting in 2009 — the so-called
“analog sunset” — a wild bunch of television fans are also
insisting on a retro aesthetic: old color shows on old color
sets. Those who appreciated the turquoise and lipstick red of
the early sets, which used different phosphors than later color
televisions, have clustered online. On YouTube, a poster called
TeslaMaster has gone so far as to upload a video of a restored
1956 RCA television showing an episode of “Bonanza.” One catch:
the online video is, of course, digitized; to catch “Gunsmoke”
or “Bonanza” as they would have appeared in the 1950s, you’ll
need to restore an old RCA set yourself. ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/magazine/11wwln-medium-t.html

- Eckhard