...

I figured that, these are becoming sparse. I almost got one but don't collect B/W sets. Even though these are around, sets usually need lots of attention, set nick named --Frail Lizzy-- for frequent breakdowns. Maybe cause had wax/paper caps?? Does anyone know of type caps installed OEM on this set??? :scratch2:

...

I'd like to have one; I like the "Gee, Mr Wizard, it's 1960 !" look about it. -Sandy G.

I could understand 90 dollars for one without dents, scratches or missing knobs. It looks like the poor thing was pulled out of a wood chipper.....

Amazing what people will pay for. I'd like to see the end result if it gets restored, which it probably will.

Actually, it didn't come from a wood chipper, but it was lying in a pile of old Lincoln parts for a year or 2 in the Southern California desert. I rescued it, and told my friend who had it that I would get him $$$ on eBay for it. But I didn't expect $90! He is pleased... There's also a CTC-9 in a woodgrained metal cabinet out there. Same shape as the sony, unfortunately. I'll rescue that one too later on.

Charles

i got mine free off the curb a few months back.still has the sunshade on it.
i spot checked the caps and every one is open.
a full recap is in order.....one of these days!

I'm glad my latest acquisition from Charles has caught some attention. Glad to know that at least one among us has time to scout the desert for gems. I own several of these sets in mint condition. Some even with the original box. They all needed recapping to work like new. The CRTs are well built and usually have emission to spare except that Sony had some quality control problems with air bubbles getting into the faceplate during some production runs. What's unique about these beauties (typical of many early Sony's) is that Sony designed and built practically every part which went into the sets. A far cry from the Sony company today that pretty much out sources every part - except the brand name, but even that is questionable. I recall a combination VCR/TV Sony introduced in the early 90's had the Sony label on the outside, but inside the chassis was made by Lucky Goldstar (Korean). Ha!

Anyways, continuing on with the 8-301, back then Sony built their own mesa transistors used for the horizontal sweep output. They had an endless stream of problems, mostly thermal run away with these mesa devices. The 8-301 did not have a long production run and got pulled after 1 year. Sony marketed them primarily for the US (suffix 'W' meant the set was marketed for the West). There can't be many left and one day they'll all be quite rare - in any condition. Look what's happened to the prices of early Sony transistor radios. Just do a search on ebay for 'Sony TR' and see what incredible $$$ early Sony transistor radios fetch! :D

By the way, the 8-301 was also nicked named the 'Kennedy Dog'. I've always wondered whether President Kennedy was refering to this TV as a faithful friend who followed him everywhere or something that breaks down a lot! :scratch2:

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Sony was established as Tokyo Tsushin Kogyo K.K. (Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering Corporation), also known as Totsuko, established in Nihonbashi, Tokyo with a start-up capital of 190,000 Yen for research and manufacturing of telecommunications and measuring equipment in May, 1946. Just as Julius Caesar once said "An Army marches on its stomach", Sony's first product was a rice cooker! It was a flop - never worked properly, and after that Sony stayed out of the kitchen until counter TV sets and radios were developed.

Sony Corporation of America (presently Sony Electronics Inc.) was established in the USA on Feb. 1960. Three months later, in May, the TV8-301 was launched. This is the same month when Sony opened its radio manufacturing plant in Shannon, Ireland (Closed in January 1966). By February, 1962, Sony Warehouse Corp was established (renamed Sony Logistics Corp, in October 1988). In May, 1962, Sony Service Co., Ltd was established.

It was not until January, 1958, that Sony Japan began design work on the TV8-301 television. Back then high quality silicon crystals were hard to produce. Silicon has a much higher melting temperature than germanium and it is extremely chemically active at high temperatures making it difficult to obtain crystals of high purity (silicon corrodes quartz crucibles!). Pulling a mono crystal for transistor production was a monumental task for Sony engineers at the time. It was not until August, 1958, that Sony engineers had figured out what type of semiconductors to use in the 8-301 set. They finally employed 23 silicon and germanium transistors, 15 diodes and 2 high voltage diodes (recall that the Philco uses miniature high voltage vacuum tube rectifiers to derive the Ultor voltage in the Safari TV). The 2SC41, a silicon mesa transistor, is used for horizontal deflection, and the 2SC19, a grown silicon transistor, for image (video) output to the CRT. At the time the TV8-301 went on sale it was considered a luxury commodity for the average family in America. You could buy a large console B&W TV set at the time for the price Sony was asking for its miniaturized marvel!

The TV8-301 did break down a lot. Sony, themselves, often referred to this TV as their "frail little baby" - ya, it got other nicknames too!. The TV8-301 is an 8 inch set. However, due to reliability issues with early transistor production it was rapidly discontinued after it was launched. Ever since May, 1960, even as the TV8-301 went on sale, Sony was working tirelessly on its replacement, model TV5-303, a 5 inch micro-TV. The trial model of the TV5-303 was dubbed "operation SV-17" to throw competitors off. At the time, competitors would think that Sony was working on a 17-inch color TV.

The TV8-301 was an important milestone in the development of transistorized television technology. It taught Sony that semiconductors with low performance characteristics overheat. This can result in large losses and require high voltage. The 8-301 also taught Sony the importance of developing an even smaller semiconductor in order to achieve even higher efficiencies in proportion to its size. By the time Sony realized this Bell Laboratories in the US had announced the development of an epitaxial transistor. Sony obtained a few of these devices and reverse engineered them. They discovered the Bell Lab's device would be perfect solution to solve the design problems inherent in the use of mesa transistors found in TV8-301. Of course Sony didn't want to pay royalties to anyone (especially to the US) so they quickly took Bell Lab's ideas and test manufactured silicon epitaxial mesa transistors for deflection circuits secretly. They introduced the mesa structure to claim their patents were not the same the Bell Lab's. The problems for syncrhonizing circuits were finally resolved for the first time (another defect in the TV8-301 fixed!). Sony grew its own epitaxial crystal, a departure from conventional crystal production. Epitaxial manufacture requires difficult gas purification and surface treatment, and gas flow control techniques.

It wasn’t until the spring of 1961 that production design, replacing the original TV8-301 mesa transistor, started. Susumu Yoshida and Senri Miyaoka were the two engineers that coordinated the design of the new epitaxial mesa device. Now, by February, 1962 all the production problems of the TV8-301 were resolved.

Another interesting evolution of the TV8-301 was the development of a miniature 70 degree deflection CRT, something which conventional CRT glass manufacturers, e.g. NEC, would not consider producing. In my opinion, The TV5-303 is equally as collectable a TV set as the TV8-301. The TV5-303 used a CRT manufactured exclusively by Sony. Believe it or not, it was Sony's semiconductor department that ran secret trials production runs of CRT tests. In less than a year, after production of the TV8-301 was discontinued, the TV5-303 was launched in November 1961.

Sony also learned many other valuable lessons from the failures of the TV8-301. For example, the TV8-301 was launched in the month on May. Sony discovered that it's better to launch new TV sets in the fall of the year, just prior to the holiday season! The real truth be told, Sony did this, not because of spending habits of Americans, Sony realized that the fall season brings lower climatic temperatures. Sony wanted to be sure there were no external rising temperatures to alter transistor characteristics within their TV sets. They wanted to give the sets a chance to perform well – and get past the 90 warranty period – before they would show signs of failure! Services issues ultimately screwed up the TV8-301 because high temps affected the stability of the semiconductors used for picture synchronization. No, it’s not always bad caps that need to be replaced in the TV8-301 – many of the transistors used in this set are thermally unstable.

The failures of the TV8-301 also allowed Sony to develop new semiconductor testing standards. Sony established new transistor testing for high temperature tolerance. They constructed the world’s first production line hothouse on the factory line, raising internal humidity by boiling water inside and raising the temperature further with electric heat. At one point, Sony engineers were so focused on high temperature tolerance that they ignored low temperature issues. Also, vibration testing was another curious problem tackled by Sony engineers. In their testing of the TV5-303, engineers would strap a TV8-301 conspicuously high on a jump seat in a vehicle to make it appear they were testing the 8 inch model. The TV5-303 was snuggled on the backseat floor so as not to be see from the outside - except when some engineers got stopped by the police for speeding once - then the jig was up!

It's interesting that the TV5-303, although filled with many firsts and technological improvement, as a direct result of the TV8-301 failures, is largely ignored by collectors today. Sure glad I worked for Sony years ago and spend some time getting to know the history of these early products.

i have a few of the 5-303 here too.
and several variants.
i also have the mitsubishis that competed with the sony.a few of them branded singer.

Every old tv set worth to be saved!

I've been kicking myself since finding one of those first-year Sony's at a hamfest just a few years ago-and not even asking the price. Most of what that vendor had was reasonable, too. I have heard that JFK had a Sony TV, I think they said on Air Force One. Not sure what model, the guy called it a Trinitron but this was much too early.

fascinating depository of knowledge, glad your the winner?
:yes:
I think know where a 5-303 is at antique store. The set is a 1961?? Man, that's STILL an early solid state set!!

Tom, know any of the original production numbers on the tv8-301?? :scratch2:

BTW............. Sony first trinitron was supposedly 1968, UNLESS JFK got possibly a field test color from sony or engineering prototype using Trintron CRT--, Maybe! :D

fascinating depository of knowledge, glad your the winner?
:yes:
I think know where a 5-303 is at antique store. The set is a 1961?? Man, that's STILL an early solid state set!!

Tom, know any of the original production numbers on the tv8-301?? :scratch2:

BTW............. Sony first trinitron was supposedly 1968, UNLESS JFK got possibly a field test color from sony or engineering prototype using Trintron CRT--, Maybe! :D

Hmmm...production numbers. I don't have any exact figures - these are tough to get - most of the Engineers that worked on the TV8-301 are rather elderly or no longer living. The production figures would have to be rather low - perhaps only 15,000 units. Every unit was hand made. Two models exist. Most were sold for export as the TV8-301W. It was considered a high priced luxury item, even in the domestic Japanese market.

In 1962, when the TV5-303 replaced the TV8-301 in production, Sony, in the same year, bought a license from Paramount Pictures to design and manufacture the Chromatron CRT. This was Sony's first answer to entering late into the color TV market which was dominated, world wide, by RCA, at that time. Sony might have people think Trinitron was their first venture in the world of color TV but that's not true. Sony held a Chromatron license. I think it was actually Bing Crosby and Paramount who jointly held the patent on the Prof. Ernest O. Lawrence, UCLA, Chromatron color picture tube. Paramount was trying to develop a color film viewer that didn't require the high priced RCA 21" round tubes - there is a military version of the 21", it was the 21G?. The only television sets being manufactured by Sony after the TV8-301 was discontinued was the TV5-303 and the Chromatron.

JFK would not have been able to field test a Trinitron but I've always speculated that President Kennedy may of had a Chromatron – they were in use in the domestic Japanese market during the time of his administration. For sure RCA and other competitors would have obtained of one to reverse engineer just to see what Sony was doing. It's also good public relations to keep an eye on what other foreign powers are up to in the field of technology - especially at a time in our history when the cold war was quite hot - i.e. Cuban Missile Crisis! The Trinitron had not been patented when President Kennedy was in the White House, but, it's possible that the Chromatron was available to him. Sony built only 13,000 Chromatron televisions and they claim all of them were sold in Japan. This would be an interesting color TV to get your hands on today - they were based on the NTSC standard. Like the TV8-301, the Chromatron was a complete service nightmare. Not only did it share the thermal problems common to the TV8-301 solid state devices, but the Chromatron tube had a serious problem with phosphor peeling off the faceplate due to the extremely high electrostatic fields generated by the switching grids. Once peeled off they would fall against the grid and short it out rendering the CRT defective. Service costs of the Chromatron almost bankrupt Sony.

By 1966, Sony was desperate to manufacture a reliable color TV. In domestic Japan, Toshiba was leading the market in television manufacture and sales way ahead of Sony. In color TV sales, Toshiba had a licensing agreement from RCA for the tri-phosphorus dot shadow mask design. RCA sold Toshiba the electron guns and Toshiba married them to Japanese glass bottles. I have in my collection an early Toshiba color TV (many thanks to Charles for trading this one) that uses the RCA-Japanese hybrid tube - it's essentially an RCA 21FB electron gun connected to a Japanese bottle. After the huge financial loss of the Chromatron, Sony vowed never again to license CRT technology from an American company. They especially did not want to follow in Toshiba's footsteps by paying a royalty to RCA - but Sony came very very close to signing an agreement with David Sarnoff at RCA to remain in the color TV business. However, Sony's engineers were definitely very clever - they saved Sony by coming up with the Trinitron design. Engineers designed a tube that would not infringe on RCA CRT patents, thus avoiding patent litigation. Sure - a Trinitron can produce a sharp bright picture - but so will modern shadow mask based tube. By October 1968 (once again a fall product introduction), Sony launched the KV-1310. This was the first Trinitron. 1968 was also the same year that Sony Records Inc. signed a 50-50 joint venture with CBS. For some 25 years the Trinitron became a license to print money for Sony - that is, until the early 1990's. JFK didn’t have a Trinitron. He might have had a Chromatron. The White House did provide him a TV8-301W.

Trinitrons are massed produced in the millions and found everywhere today, the Chromatron is Sony’s bad dream they want the world to forget, and only a few TV8-301’s remain as a reminder of Sony’s legacy that started the company on the road to television manufacture.

I agree, all early Sony TV's are definitely keepers.

I have a 5-303W and once I replaced all the electrolytics (except for two low value high voltage) and I got a beautiful picture. The yoke may need adjustment just by a hair and those two capacitors changed, and when I connect my satellite receiver to it, I get buzzing on high contrast pictures. This is probably due to the high level signal coming out of the channel 3/4 modulator on the satellite receiver. I also used the color bar pattern (press left+menu on a 4th to 7th generation RCA directv receiver) from the receiver and played with brightness and contrast controls to get it right. What looked ok on the color bar pattern (evenly from dark to light) was too dim for channel 3. I'll play with it some more.

Simply because of this thread I want to bring a 8-301W back to life now :P The 5-303W is a sweet little set, and I'd like to give the 8-301W a try. Can the transistors that were so prone to thermal runaway be replaced with modern ones that are much more stable?

Kaye-Halbert TV,

I aquired an RCA CTC9 "Felton" 210-CT-836 in a woodgrained metal cabinet from the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles from a retired TV repairman who sold it on ebay. When he tested it he said the picture was dim and out of focus. I have replaced a few capacitors in the chassis and need to install new electrolytics and a AC line supression capacitor and some HV caps and I can finally pop it in the cabinet and give it a try.

Do you think I'll have to replace those molded maroon colored caps too? They have a line at one end of them, which indicates to me that they are paper and the line is the foil side. There are orange ones like them too with a line on them, possibly indicating the foil side. Must these be replaced?

I'd gladly take the CTC9 you have access to but I'm in Pennsylvania and am already cramped for room with the CTC9 I have. I'd hate to see it get dumped or wasted away from the elements. I hate to see a good 21CYP22A go to waste.

Jonathan

Santa Claus brought me a 5-303W for Xmas '62. I was so sick w/a cold/sore throat, my dad carried me into see it, I said, "That's nice", & he took me back to bed. That little TV quickly became my bestest buddy, tho. I was 5, & you can imagine what kind of treatment it got. Once, I managed to dump it in the Potty-fortunately, it WASN'T plugged in-we fished it out, didn't play it for a day or 2, it was fine. It lasted til '68, at which time the CRT turned pink, & they got me a 9" Sony. It was nice, but I always had a soft spot for the old 5-303W. Yeah, they were TOUGH little sets-I prolly put it thru stuff the engineers never even dreamed of. They were kinda "Hot Shit" items back in the early-mid '60s. And why Zenith, RCA, Galvin, didn't recognise the threat & start making their own transistor sets, I'll never know.-Sandy G.

...

Simply because of this thread I want to bring a 8-301W back to life now :P The 5-303W is a sweet little set, and I'd like to give the 8-301W a try. Can the transistors that were so prone to thermal runaway be replaced with modern ones that are much more stable? ...




Jonathan, here's a cool link that shows a collection of original transistor devices built by Sony in the mid late 1950's to early 1960's. The 2SC41 mesa transistor used in the TV8-301 appears towards the end. An internal view is also featured.

http://www.geocities.jp/craft_3/Semiconductor/SONY_Transistor/sony_tr.html

The business name "Tokyo Tsushin Kogyo, Ltd." was the founding company name before it adopted the name Sony. Note: one picture shows what looks like a child’s face. This was a favorite symbol for the Japanese engineers and became known as 'the Sony boy'. The image was never promoted widely in America, and it never caught on here. Sony spent a great deal of time reverse engineering transistors produced by Western Electric in the 1950's. By 1955, Sony had successfully cloned US designed grown junction transistors and used them to market their first transistor radio, the TR-55.

Production problems, such as purity, contamination, and human errors during transistor process assembly contributed to many of the original stability problems Sony had with the 2SC41 back in the early 60's. However, modern production techniques make reliable devices available today. If you have some potentially unstable transistors in your TV8-301W then it's possible to still obtain new replacements from a component supplier.

And why Zenith, RCA, Galvin, didn't recognise the threat & start making their own transistor sets, I'll never know.-Sandy G.

Sandy I think Galvin (motorola) made the Astronaut set sometime in the early 60's, this was an 18" portable b/w set in a leatherette case that zipped up like a suitcase, had built in rechargeable batteries. It was fully transistorized except the HV rect. tube. However I don't recall seeing any "personal-size" transistor portables from US manufacturers from this time.

The Air Force One at the Reagan Museum has a Sony KV-1211HG, which is about as rare as any. Of course that was from '82. Agreed; no Trinitron as early as JFK. However, the Trinitron KV-7010UA has 1966 on the service manual. There are debates over whether or not that was sold in the USA. Most likely; my guess, is that if a Sony was on JFK's Air Force One, it was probably a 9" B&W. Or maybe a 5-303. President Nixon had a CTC-46 25" set on his plane, I recall.

Charles

...

There were the 8" RCA 8-PT*** series in the mid-50s, and the 3" Pilot in '49 but ofcourse those were AC only. Agreeing with Andy, I think the Safari was the only USA-made battery set in the 60s that I can think of. Zenith, RCA & Quasar came up with 9" battery sets in the mid 70s. On that Quasar; not sure if still Motorola, or by then Panasonic.

Charles

RE:JFK-I have a recording of some comedian, I forget who, but he tells a story of being invited on Air Force One by the President & he mentioned there was a Trinitron on board. I think he was interchanging "Trinitron" & "Sony". This story was probably recorded many years later & the storyteller didn't know the difference.

I have a 5-303W that I bought as a kid in the eighties, I think it was $15 plus I traded something for it. Complete with carrying case & battery pack. I used it on some trips; the audio always had a buzz & finally it went out completely. Someday I need to recap it but for some reason I'm in no rush to dig into this thing! I have a newer version, with UHF, but I think its dead. (or maybe had vertical trouble? can't recall) I also have, somewhere in a box, a scroungy Sharp from this era with no cabinet, just the crt & chassis.

Offhand I can think of some 9" sets that I'm pretty sure were made in the US but nothing smaller. I think the 9" Admiral was a cute set. If there were others made somebody on here knows about it!

Cool story Sandy! Let me know if you want another 5-303. I think one at antique store still has original box. Its alway great to hear stories of someone using these oldies. 5 years service , a very good portable set. :)

...

I have a 5-303 Tummy TV too... It was working fine after I recapped the sweep board, but I sold the sweep board out of it to a customer. I keep watching the 5-303s constantly on eBay, and I will eventually get another one. Seems like an unlimited supply though!

And back to the original subject; I remember that there is a box of two early GE 8 or 9 inch AC-DC-Battery TVs under one of my Toyota Diesels... They have a yellow rubberized CRT like the one in the 12" cheapie portable from '62 or so. These look early/mid 60s too. I forgot I stuck them under there. I will pull them out and see what they are. I had gotten them in an estate electronics purchase that I got involved in last fall.

Charles

Going a bit off topic, I have a Panasonic TR-238BF that I think is late 60's.
It has a Lead/Acid gel cell mounted in the base and uses a standard AC cord with the charger built into the set.

This thing almost works but needs some caps, I'd also have to rig up a replacement battery as this one is long dead.

I have service data I ordered from servicemanuals.net for the 5-303W. It says to replace the discriminator diodes if there is audio buzz. I believe my discriminator diodes are fine, but an attenuator may work if you are getting an externbal signal from a satellite receiver. If getting a signal from the air and you get buzzing then you might have to replace the discriminator diodes. NTE sells the overpriced replacement diodes, I believe, but I forget their part number.

Tom Ryan,

In most cases, what transistors had bad thermal runaway in the 8-301? Will the NTE replacements perform much better than the originals did? The horizontal transistors 2SC41 that NTE sells replacements for are $11 a piece! Will NTE's rebranded parts operate any better?

Thanks.

Jonathan

@Eric_H: the "U" at your's '60's "Panasonic" stands for U.H.F.?

@Eric_H: the "U" at your's '60's "Panasonic" stands for U.H.F.?

Yes, it has a UHF tuner. You turn the VHF to the U position and you can tune UHF.

Golly gee whiz, ...maybe this seller is looking for an emotional bid on their TV5-303W set!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6240550810

Well,...if the critter really does sell for $500 that'll be a record. :banana:

...

$500 for "Seems to be working"? No thanks.

Jonathan

eBay is a very strange entity. It can be our best windfall, or bankrupt some of us "dedicated collectors". People go fishing alot on eBay, offering something for sale that they really intend to keep realistically. But they feel if somebody wants it "this bad", let 'em have it. I saw the shop manual for an '85 Toyota Diesel Camry sell for $550, when you can order it new for $90 all day long at any dealer. I felt like eMailing a sarcastic message to the buyer, but I refrained.

About 5 years ago, a (nameless) member on this site paid $500/plus for the factory manual on the RCA model 5 field test color set... It blew my mind, but I guess I can understand because I have the feeling it's "slightly out of print" ...

Charles

I was the high bidder on this Sony, at least till the last 2 hours, then it started getting ridiculous. I finally found one this week for $10.


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