an earlier thread made note of the 23" Motorola set that came out in early 65' I believe. My uncle went out and bought one. The picture quality had no detail. and all reds looked orangy. The set itself used twin horz output tubes. and purity was always a problem. The only good thing was the cabinet was made by Drexel!!

Do you think that was due to the phosphors in the 23EGP22 tube or was it due to the color demodulation scheme? It seems like one of these Motorolas had a single tube that served as 3.58 mhz oscillator, color demods, and amps.

Do you think that was due to the phosphors in the 23EGP22 tube or was it due to the color demodulation scheme? It seems like one of these Motorolas had a single tube that served as 3.58 mhz oscillator, color demods, and amps.


Chad, I believe it was the demod circuits, another fact about those sets were that old people liked that smooth picture with no detail. I guess it was more appealing to them

<<Chad, I believe it was the demod circuits, another fact about those sets were that old people liked that smooth picture with no detail. I guess it was more appealing to them>>

It removed everybody's wrinkles and made them look young again... when you're old, you don't want to sit around watching other old people and be reminded of it : ()

heh! I beleive I may have been the one to share my Uncles hatred of those sets in that earlier thread. When I went with him on his house-call route in the late 70's early 80's there were a few of those sets he had to service. I never saw one with a decent picture, EVER. Also they most likely had to be hauled into the shop for repair. Glitchiest sets I ever saw. IMO those pre Zenith Chromacolors weren't the easiest to work on. ALL RCA's were pretty easy to service. My Grandpa worked in the shop as well, and he always had an opinion on everything. (Most of it bad if it wasn't Zenith... which we sold as well) He always said Zenith wasn't the easiest to service, but they were built to last, so service was far and few between. He said RCA's were easy to service because they were junk. He always said they were built to blow up. To really start him on a cussing frenzy tho was to see ANY Motorola set on call or brought into the shop. I think he hated the W.I.D. sets worse of all. Oh.. and lets not forget anything Japanese. I can still hear his shrill "What in THE hell!" when he'd work on anything he didn't like.....

It seemed to me that Zenith was actually easier because of the removeable screen on the bottom of the cabinet to gain access to the whole chassis and the hand wired construction...RCA could be a pain because you had to prop up the chassis or remove it to get at the parts...

Those junk sets made my house payment! I saw them as follows:
$$Motorola$$
$Generous Electric$
$RCA
That is mostly what came in, we had a lot of motos in my area.
Oddly enough, I am watching a '68 WID right now as I type this!!
It has been trouble free for a year now, of course I only use it a couple of times a year...!!

Oh.. and lets not forget anything Japanese. I can still hear his shrill "What in THE hell!" when he'd work on anything he didn't like.....

About 25 years ago a guy in our small company's service and manufacturing dept was working on one of our products that had in it a Japanese B&W monitor. He was cussing something like "First they gave us Pearl Harbor, now this!" as he was struggling with some defect in the monitor.

This company, Matrix Instruments, which no longer exists, made a strange product. Namely a box that would accept a video feed from a hospital CAT scanner and create photographic hard copy. A video monitor inside the box with the CAT scanner image was focused via a camera lens onto a piece of Xray film. Lens had a shutter like a real film camera. Then you'd develop the film. Then the doctor had hard copy like that from actual Xray machines. This was back in 1979. Before computers were popular.

As a friend who worked with me there once said, it was: "A standard issue job at a typical company that made a boring product". :D

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The "NOS" DuMont (Emerson) color set (1970 model) that I have is a real piece of work. Has an amateur quality to some of the design. Big, flimsy boards, some hard to reach components. When its working right it displays a picture that has the same softeness as the low focus voltage RCA's or a Motorola.

I have an 18" GE hybrid that is something of a joke, too. I just don't understand how they expected you to service some of the components.

Then there is the 21" Motorola bw table model from the late 50s in which you cannot access the bottom of the chassis without taking the entire cabinet completely apart, sides, top, everything. What were they thinking??? At least that set does work quite well. (as any late fifties bw should, IMO)

At least in my admittedly (very) limited experience, the Most Repairman-Unfriendly and Remarkably Unsafe TV to Work On Award goes to the 1958 RCA 17" B&W portable I got about 10 years ago. It's pretty cool looking-- a fine example of a TV-that's-trying-to-look-like-a-car-that's-trying-to-look-like-a-jet-plane. ...Complete with two-tone blue paint job and decorative (gold-colored) "fins" on the side. Heaven help you if it needs repair though.

It's been a while, so I may have some of the details wrong, but here's what I recall. Also, I didn't have any service docs for this set, so perhaps there's a "secret" dissasembly method that I wasn't aware of.

Like many late-50's sets, it has a steel cabinet with a vertical chassis, with the tube sockets facing the back of the set. Some components are on a PC board, but it's mounted sideways with the tube sockets facing the side of the set. The limited clearance between the PC board and the side of the cabinet is made all the worse because the speaker is also mounted to the cabinet there. There's just enough room to stick a hand in there to change tubes on the PC board, but that's it. Oh, and the foil side of the board is covered with a metal shield. Did I mention that the PC board is of the typical 50's variety where a lot of the foil traces have long-ago peeled from the board itself, and now scarcely millimeters away from touching that metal shield..?

If you need to do (almost) anything besides changing a tube, then the real fun begins. As I recall, removing the chassis involves the following steps (and a lot of patience):

- Remove all the knobs (of course).

- On the inside of the set, remove the self-tapping machine screws that hold the chassis to the brackets welded to the metal cabinet. Avoid cutting yourself on the sharp edges of the cabinet lip or the metal brackets.

- No, you can't remove the chassis yet.

- Unbolt the speaker from the cabinet. Set it aside.

- You're definitely not done yet.

- Disconnect the CRT socket. Loosen the yoke and partially slide it off the CRT. Don't worry about the yoke slipping off the neck. It's not going anywhere. The yoke leads are so short the yoke will hardly move anyway.
No, there is no detachable plug/socket for the yoke.

- On second thought, tighten the yoke again. There's something else you have to do first. Remove the external screws that hold the front bezel (including the safety glass) in place. Pull off the front bezel.

- This will reveal several screws that hold the CRT in place (on a metal band/bracket, as I recall). It will also reveal the sharp edges of the front of the metal cabinet. Loosen the yoke again, and then start removing those screws. Keep your other hand at the back of the set-- don't let the CRT fall!

- Done removing the CRT mounting screws? Great! Now, work the CRT forward so as to remove it from the cabinet, while continuing to support the neck of the tube.

- Now discover that the 2nd anode (HV) cable has so little slack that you can only move the CRT about an inch or two forward. Oh, there's the HV cable; it was hidden behind the chassis where you couldn't see it. Another thing you couldn't see is that the HV cable is completely lacking the usual 'suction cup'-- or any other insulation-- at the 2nd anode terminal. So you better make darn sure that CRT is completely discharged and stays that way!

- Now you get to snake your hand into the slim space between the edge of the cabinet front and the bell of the CRT and blindly grope for the HV lead and disconnect it, all while trying not to cut yourself on the unprotected edge of the sheet metal cabinet or getting *zapped* by the unprotected HV lead.

- Having accomplished that, finish removing the CRT from the cabinet from the front. Don't relax yet, though-- you've got to keep one hand in back at the base of the CRT ready to "catch" the yoke before it falls off the CRT neck and smashes into a tube or something.

- Set the CRT aside. Now you can remove the chassis. Well, it's not quite *that* simple. It's a pretty tight fit, and you have to manuver it out the back of the cabinet over, under, and through those mounting brackets as well as the bent lip of the cabinet back.

- Now on your work table you have the chassis! ...along with a CRT, the front bezel, the speaker, and an empty cabinet. Marvel at how thin and flimsy that cabinet really is when it no longer has any internal support-- I've seen tin cans that had heavier steel than that cabinet.

- Repeat the above steps in reverse to re-install the chassis. Have fun!

I'd say it's easier to pull the chassis in the RCA 630TS (and its friends) even though that also involves removing the CRT first...

Worst set to work on? I say the mid-70s GE projection set with the 12" single tube and leather bench seat. Can't remember (AND DONT WANT TO) the model #. It was 6' long, 4' high and had a horrible dim picture even from the factory. You'd have to remove 9,738 rounded-off bolts with bad threads that you can't reach anyway, then smash knuckles to bang the chassis slightly out to get to anything while on your knees, and slice your arms on the razor-sharp metal housing for the CRT. Then after changing the FBT and the CRT, you bang it back together and spend the weekend trying to get optical focus on it. I worked on two of them, which was two too many! And the worst non-bigscreen to work on would be the Toshiba color sets from the mid 70s with the modules sitting stacked 1/2" apart where you can't reach anything to troubleshoot. Great reliable TV, but impossible to work on.

Charles

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Getting back to the 23" Motorola color with the 23EGP22 tube. Now there's a set I'd like to have for my collection. Any one know where I can get one?

Hi Tom, Good to see you made it here! If I remember correctly, You got a set or two from me in the past. I have a pretty good sized moto collection but at the time do not have that set here in Michigan. The one you are looking for should still be at my parents farm in NC but may or may not be what you want as it has a January 1966 manuf. date. It was in pretty well used shape also.

Getting back to the 23" Motorola color with the 23EGP22 tube. Now there's a set I'd like to have for my collection. Any one know where I can get one?


Try the City Dump (and a time machine to go back to a time when they were about 3 months old) :D

No, just kidding... I still see them now & then. I will let you know if one pops up. Dr. Dan has one, but I dont' think he wants to part with it because it was the family TV originally.

Charles

Greetings! Yep, it was just only a couple and I'm still collecting! Say, take a look see next time you visit ur folks. The other set I'd really like to get a hold of for my collection is the Westinghouse 22" rectangular from 1957. I don't seem to see these around - could have been terrible sets. I think any attempt at building a rectangular tube back in the 1950's is cool - not sure if the convergence was any good. Didn't CBS Columbia also have a 22" rectangular - could this have been the same tube used in the Westinghouse?

Oh god, my RCA KC117A chassis is bad too. It's got a disconnectable yoke and a few holes to reach inside through, though. I found a small extendable mirror is useful for a quick scope hookin.

Anyway, it's pull the front screen, pull the CRT, pull the chassis - it goes out the front easier.

Vert chassis sets are inevitably annoying to work on, save for the side chassis color sets.

Most color sets are bad just because they've got wires going EVERYWHERE with no real bundling of them. Portacolors are horrid to work on too....

Greetings! Yep, it was just only a couple and I'm still collecting! Say, take a look see next time you visit ur folks. The other set I'd really like to get a hold of for my collection is the Westinghouse 22" rectangular from 1957. I don't seem to see these around - could have been terrible sets. I think any attempt at building a rectangular tube back in the 1950's is cool - not sure if the convergence was any good. Didn't CBS Columbia also have a 22" rectangular - could this have been the same tube used in the Westinghouse?

Tom,

Yep, the 22" Westinghouse rectangular was originally developed by Hytron/CBS Columbia.

-Steve D.

I started the thread "WORST EVER" thread, and still say the Motorola with the 23EGP WAS the worst ever..hands down. It is hard to know where to start!

I do remember going to (the retailer) E.J.Korvette, and on the 2nd floor at the top of the escalator was a wall full of Motorola color televisions. They were especially impressive on Saturday night when "FLIPPER" was on. Anyway, with no other brand to compare, they didn't look to bad, had a good price on them, and you could take it with you,too. For many owners, the story went downhill from there.

Where does one start describing junk? These things were unbelievable. I remember that these sets were plauged with tube socket problems. Not only that the sockets had to be replaced, but there was so much crap under the chassis, it was IMPOSSIBLE to unsolder/solder it, not to mention the PCB disintegrating if you tried. What we did at the shop was to break the socket apart to expose the pins, then solder the new one on top of it as best as possible. Not a pretty picture..

I think a single 3A3 would have done a better job than the tubes in the I-F section. A 6BK4 would definitely have done a better job in the demod circuit. Hook a scope to the set. The horror..the horror. Unbelievable.

The 23EGP was in a class all by itself. Purity? Forget it. Expensive? When we could buy a 25AP/XP for $50 exchange, (to the best of my recollection) the EGP cost around $130.To get around the price, 25AP/XPs were subbed (Motorola approved). The kit to make the sub possible..didn't. It was horrible. Some could be shoe-horned in, others couldn't.

Lots of them came back to the shop before the repair warranty was over. Most of the times, for another problem. Anyway, the boss finally issued the edict. These sets were banned from the shop.

Best place to find one, about 30 years down in the dump. There were times I did like them.. belly-up in the dumpster!

Isnt this it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1960s-MOTOROLA-5-FT-TV-AM-FM-RECORD-ANTIQUE-CABINET_W0QQitemZ6238887071QQcategoryZ219QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

that be the one, almost brings back nightmares. the only good thing was cabinet by drexel.

Attention Tom Ryan! If you don't mind a combo, then this one will work nicely for your collection. Motorola showed it in their '65 lineup as model 23LK408A.
It looks a little rough but these are getting pretty scarce now. They may not be a Zenith as far as quality but I like to have a few working ones in my collection because of their history.

The Drexel cabinets were beautiful. But, when the seller suggests you "take a little sandpaper" to it I get nervous. IMO, unless you are an experienced furniture refinisher you could really botch the job. Either you expertly blend the old finish with the new, or plan on sanding and refinishing the entire cabinet.

-Steve D.

I thought that was odd too Steve, as well as the "needing tubes" remark. I am sure the seller just has no idea, and is attempting to minimize the amount of work it will take to get the beast going again! Many of those Ebay sellers don't realize that we as collectors like working on those items, and are not afraid of what they may need to work again.
The main thing here is that it appears the seller has NOT attempted to do any half-ass repairs on the cabinet or electronics!
Last thing I would want is someone's screwed up project! Had a few of those in the past and they usually wind up being parts...

That thing is only 5 feet long? Looks more like 8 feet in the pics, for a second I thought it was two of them shoved together. You could land an F-14 on that thing!

You know, after looking at that thing again doesn't it look warped at the middle? It's so long I wonder if it drooped from the weight! Hope it's just the way the picture was taken.

Dang-- that things a monster! It's a shame so large ---very early rectangulor CRT set. I guess shipping on this would be double the size of a roundie at least since so big?? Someone's gotta really want this with the original hi-fii or just have lots of space. These must be getting scarce due to there inherent problems with reliability. Set IS nearly 40 years old, a classic yet?

Never a classic.

This is the worst part: It's too heavy for one trashman to lift into the hopper of the truck.

Charles

LOL Charles!!!! Ain't that the truth. I bet the set is like new on the inside, because it probably broke by 1967 and has been in storage since. I remember a few of those early Moto's on our service call route and they were LOUSY. If we sold the owner a new Zenith, you can bet the Moto NEVER made it in the shop for re-sale as used. Their Stereo's weren't too bad, and I bet the one in this auction cranks.