Does anybody have one? I have tried to imagine what would have become of those. For example: I expect there should have been at least ten units delivered to the RCA building in NY in time for the first broadcasts. They probably were used into the '70's. Then I expect they were moved to a ground level place to be picked up by some TV/electronics company that tries to resell them? Maybe some ended up in a below ground level storage? I just don't think they immediatlely crushed them. I often wonder if buildings like that have a completely known inventory or if stuff, big and small, becomes forgotten for many years.
Does Anybody know about this sort of thing?
Did any of you ever work in the RCA building?

I'm not sure about the RCA building,I guess you are thinking about NBC
television studios at Rockerfeller Plaza.Since I work for CBS I can tell you
that back in '54 they used modified RCA CT-100's as color monitors.Then
they stepped up to 21" Conrac roundie monitors that used the 21AXP22
crt.In the 60's they started using rectangular crt Conracs which were a
hybrid design.I have one of these in my collection and even though it is a
hybrid,it is still a monster with 2 6080's as pass elements in the power supply.
CBS in their infinite wisdom threw all that stuff out during the 1980's,
including hundreds of Mcintosh and Marantz tube hi-fi,fairchild compressors,
Neumann U77 and RCA ribbon microphones,and other things that if I mention
I will make myself sick.I started working there in 2003.They also had alot
of stuff over in the transmitter room at the Empire State Building,But it was
cleaned out and the contents dumpsterized after the 9/11 attacks.CBS
started using Sony and Ikegami monitors in the 80's and have stayed with
those brands ever since.
Regards,
Swanson

RCA had a 15 inch monitor in 1954, the TM-10. At least one survives. We have a GE and a Dage 15 inch in our collection:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/dage_650.html

http://www.earlytelevision.org/ge_4tm15.html

It appears from this magazine cover that NBC Burbank used consumer sets (RCA of course) - can anyone identify what chassis/model these are, and what CRT?

CBS New York must have been special. I've seen Television City shows from the late '70s (at least as late as '78) where they were still using round Conrac monitors.

The roundies were long gone by the 70's at CBS NY.At that time they were
using Conrac RHA series transistor color monitors.These monitors had a
separate HV power supply and two flybacks,one for horiz. sweep and the
other for HV.If the horiz. or vert. sweep failed the HV supply would
shut down to prevent the crt from being burned.CBS NY still had quite a few
of the Conrac CYA (hybrid) rectangular color monitors still in use up untill
the early 80's.
Regards,
Swanson

It appears from this magazine cover that NBC Burbank used consumer sets (RCA of course) - can anyone identify what chassis/model these are, and what CRT?

Those are a trio of RCA Victor 21-CT-55 consumer color sets with a 21AXP22 picture tube.

I worked at NBC Burbank in the 60's off & on. The RCA 21" professional monitors were in use in the control rooms. The studios had something like CTC-10 table model sets hanging above the audience section in some studios. Working at KTLA-TV full time in the late 60's, I was about 5 minutes to late to claim a 15" color monitor when they cleaned out their equipment storage locker. They had 3 sitting in the parking lot up for grabs.

-Steve D.

Here are some pictures from CBS NY.One is the transmitter room at the
ESB from 1955.You can see the modified CT-100.the other is a late 1950's
picture of a tech. adjusting a Conrac color roundie in studio 72.This is my
first time attaching pictures.Hopefully I won't goof it up too bad.
Regards,
Swanson

Click to a picture of the CBS transmitter room in New York City, 1955. I believe ths is the pix Swanson's referring to in the previous post. The sole color reference monitor is an RCA CT-100 receiver, on a wheeled dolly, seen to the left of the operator.

http://www.cbsretirees.com/pho246.htm

-Steve

Those are a trio of RCA Victor 21-CT-55 consumer color sets with a 21AXP22 picture tube.

I worked at NBC Burbank in the 60's off & on. The RCA 21" professional monitors were in use in the control rooms. The studios had something like CTC-10 table model sets hanging above the audience section in some studios.

-Steve D.

Steve,

I know we've talked about this before but was I astounded in 1974 or so when I used to bluff my way into NBC Color City, Burbank and to my surprise saw really old (even then) 21" roundies used as monitors, etc. I mean, heck, not even rectangle tubes? Round? Wow. There was a guy in master control (you know, the room with the glass window so you could look through in the long hallway by the news entrance?) and this guy was adjusting one of the two 21" sets right there. I remember (burned into my brain) that one of the sets was marked "program" and one was marked "transmitter". The transmitter picture (after the signal came back down the mountain) was somewhat degraded when compared to the first picture, but both looked, um, antique compared to any modern TV set picture of that year. I couldn't believe they were making picture judgements and adjustments using those old sets as gospel. Heh, just floored me. :lmao:

I mean, I love the picture on my old roundies but I wouldn't use them in professional video work.

That would be like in my line of work mastering music for CD's while listening critically to playback on an old JBL horn or something. It sure wouldn't tell me the truth about what was happening.

Here is the ESB transmitter room.

I could understand tv stations or maybe ABC using roundies into the 70s but it would sure seem that RCA would make sure NBC always got the latest & the greatest. Maybe there use of those old sets says something about their quality-and about the quality of what RCA was producing in the 70s!

I could swear I have seen studio shots on tv from the early 80s, either SNL or the Tonight Show, & they had Japanese-Sony, I think-monitors. I would think this would set Sarnoff spinning in his grave! This was before the GE buyout, by the way.

Tv stations or broadcasting facilities will quite often hold onto old equipment and run it into the ground because management does not want to spend
money on new equipment.There are certain areas where you need the
latest modern equipment,such as cameras and the color monitors that
are needed to set up or "chip" the cameras.These are the areas where you
will find modern equipment.In less critical areas of the facility you will find
the older equipment still chugging along.We still have alot of the Conrac
SNA series B&W monitors running.These are a transistor design going back
to 1974.No one makes crt's for these anymore,so we send out the old ones
to Scotty at Hawkeye to have them rebuilt.The plan is to eventually replace
all of these with Sony or Ikegami LCD monitors,but that will cost money.
It is rumored that yearly bonuses given to CBS management will be bigger if they spend minimal money.So of course they are going to do anything they
can to hardly spend any money.I'm sure this is how it is at other big
companies too.
Regards,
Swanson

I agree. Those old monitors were there at NBC because they still worked and they were "fixed assets" that were paid for 14 years before.

I STILL THINK I've seen COLOR CRTs from the 1950s that were the same shape as the B&W CRTs of the day-NOT the distinctive "Roundie" shape we all know & love. And I believe I've seen 'em as studio monitors-pictures, OK, but still. They may have been superimposed, but I don't believe they were. Am I dreaming, or Nutz ? -Sandy G.

I agree. Those old monitors were there at NBC because they still worked and they were "fixed assets" that were paid for 14 years before.

Good point Steve & Swanson. We used the roundie monitors at KTLA well into the 70's. And even when we replaced the roundies with rectangular color monitors , we kept a roundie installed for reference. This,because when we did a tight shot of a subject, person or product, we wanted to be sure it was not cut off at the corners when viewed on a round screen color set. After all, there were still millions of roundie color sets in homes.

-Steve D.

Most places that have been around awhile end up moving older pieces around if they still work to less inportant places. I have some monitors in service that are around 25 years old for checking if something is working or not we even have one with a HD down converter hooked up to it for HD. Sometimes its a matter of pride to see how long the techs can keep a piece working. That can backfire as managment knows they don't need to spend $ on new equipment. On a side note I had a round monitor with a 21FJP22A setup next to a Sony 32" for fun and the pic was almost as good. The monitor I want to fix someday had a 25VCMP22 Cromacolor Zenith Tube in it, that old thing had a killer picture.

The thing about "moving older pieces around if they still work to less inportant places" is of course quite logical, but at NBC Color City, the big window that showed master control was a very important place. Not only did they judge picture quality there (to a certain extent) but it was on display for anyone who walked by to look in. That included the tours, etc. I mean, in 1974 the first thing you saw at NBC other than the hallways full of people was two really old 21" roundies, heh. That always tickled me. They might have been proud of 'em. Probably were.

FWIW (and that's not much!) I took the NBC tour at Rocky Center back in the early 70's and recall seeing what I remember to be Curtis Mathes monitors in the control room...not sure if this was their master control room or what, but it had live feed displayed.

I wonder what had happened to those old beatifoul monitors. I hope they didn't end in the junk yard.
Talking about old things. A reporter from TVR (The Romaninan State Televsion) use an "Sony" Betacam from the '80's!

Until recently, lots of American TV news used a version of Betacam for their in the field reporting. There are several Beta standards, some for broadcast, others for industry (training tapes etc) and of course the consumer version.

Yes,that is betacam SX,still in use at CBS NY and
other networks for news gathering.
We are now switching over to a new format
by Sony called XDCAM.It records the video data
to a rewritable disc that is about the same size as
a DVD.The disc usually lives in a cartridge and looks
a little bit like the old JAZ drive cartridge.The laser
in use is the new blue-violet laser.So far it works
very well but the technology is still very new.
Regards,
Swanson

On the pic put by old_tv_nut a guy "playes" with some buttons. Are those buttons use for adjusting the colors?

Those are knobs used to adjust the image orthicon operating voltages and magnetic fields. Image orthicons were very finicky, and adjusting them was apparently as much art as science. I have heard it said that NBC Burbank did a much better job of aligning the cameras than NBC New York, and that would seem to be confirmed by the relative quality of existing videos.

I agree. The stuff from Color City in Burbank always looks better. The NY cameras are always mis-matched looking, picture wise..

Next time you watch an old Saturday Night Live, you'll see the differences. Sometimes they're tremendous. And they were like that into the '80s. I agree Burbank was much more consistent from camera to camera, if not from show to show. Some shows looked a lot sharper than others, unless they lost something in remastering.

Hi all-

The existence of obsolete equipment in service at network plants was explained earlier as not spending any additional money. At NBC, the VP of engineering always asked,"Can we get spare parts? Is it doing the job?' Case closed. For example, NBC continued to operate TP-6 film projectors for those reasons, but also, they could see ENG coming along, requiring less telecine.

NBC had TK-41s in service in 1975 at some O&Os, and ABC had a TK-41 mobile unit available as a backup for "Monday Night Football" into the late 1970s. Generally speaking, the O&Os of the three networks had the oldest equipment of nay TV station in town.

The question about the quality of pictures being different in NY and Burbank can partially be expalined by the 3000 mile gap between Camden/NY and the West Coast.
Burbank was a "can do" shop without the large bureacracy in NY and Camden, especially in later years. They often didn't have the necessary capital, so they built it themselves, as they had a large maintenance staff in Burbank. Audio consoles, terminal equipment, solid state preamps for the TK-26s, solid state TK-41 VFs, were all done in house. Craig Curtis designed a pre-SMPTE time code edit system that was used for many years to edit major programs.

Outside producers loved working at NBC Burbank and it was profitable for the company.
It was a full facility operation with wardrobe and drapery departments, in addition to the standard support services.

Then there was the lighting-Burbank poured on the footcandles, and actually had a manager of lighting. I remember conversing with the "Tonight Show" VO about the new TK-44As that were installed and if there were any reductions in light levels from the TK-41 days. "No, not really." "Where are you running the irises?, I asked." "Oh, about F-11."

F-11!!! Plus the gain in the camera head video amplifiers was reduced to produce a quieter picture too boot! God, the focus knob on the lens was unnecessary at those light levels.

In fairness, the NY Radio City plant was built for radio and may have lacked the power capability and HVAC needed to light to those levels. I have heard many stories over the years.

There were capable people on both coasts, and it was enjoyable working with them. It may have been the best job ever.

Regards,

J. Ballard

It appears from this magazine cover that NBC Burbank used consumer sets (RCA of course) - can anyone identify what chassis/model these are, and what CRT?

Since all the photo attachments have been lost after this thread was originally started, I though I'd post the photo old_tv_nut refers to. This from the cover of Radio & Television News Sept. 1955. NBC Burbank control room. RCA Victor 21CT55 consumer model color sets w/21AXP22 picture tubes.

-Steve D.

Holy nearly 10 year old post batman! Never ceases to amaze me the things that pop back up out here on the interwebs.

Since all the photo attachments have been lost after this thread was originally started, I though I'd post the photo old_tv_nut refers to. This from the cover of Radio & Television News Sept. 1955. NBC Burbank control room. RCA Victor 21CT55 consumer model color sets w/21AXP22 picture tubes.

-Steve D.


Who here woudn't want to just "step into that picture" and load up ALL of that stuff-- and bring it back to today !!

IF ONLY that were possible...

Who here woudn't want to just "step into that picture" and load up ALL of that stuff-- and bring it back to today !!

IF ONLY that were possible...
And then one of us happens to walk in to that station's prop room and find those 21CT55s sittin pretty....

And then one of us happens to walk in to that station's prop room and find those 21CT55s sittin pretty....

Do they still work?

It was a joke....

It was a joke....

Awww... Drats! :)

Wouldn't surprise me at all if there were still things like that hanging around, though. I've seen plenty of nifty old stuff in lost piles in forgotten storage rooms over the years!

With this forum and all the people who work(ed) at TV stations and such, you never know who actually might stumble across something like that in person. :)

Plenty of 21-CT-55's around, I got one at ETF auction a few years ago.

I have one each of the TM-10 and TM-21 both complete in working condition in my collection.