So about 4 months ago I decided to floor it, and the engine hesitated and then took off but started missing badly. I had no time to work on it, so it sat for about a month.

Then I figured I'd just try changing the plugs and see what happens. Only two plugs were at all dirty enough that I thought they might cause any problems, but after I put in the new plugs and started it up it ran fine.

Now it would still miss occasionally when idling, not regularly, about once a minute increasing in regularity the longer I sat idling, and in drive with the brakes on only, it wouldn't do it if I shifted into neutral. It would also sometimes give me trouble when going uphill, but would start running fine if I accelerated while going up the hill.

Then after about 3 weeks of running more or less ok, I was stuck in traffic for a long time, and it started running crappy again. I pulled out the plugs, and they weren't dirty at all. Now, I haven't driven it much since, but what I have found out is that if I let it sit for a few days, it runs fine afterwards, until I let it idle in drive for about a minute, then it starts running crappy again. If I let it sit again it runs fine, and the cycle repeats itself.

Now I don't really know where to start, other than it's not the spark plugs (and probably not the ignition coils either). Vacuum leak? fuel pump? clogged tailpipe:D Any ideas?

I miss having older cars that I understand better. If anyone wants to swap me for or is looking to sell (in the 2-3K range or less) an older American car in drivable (or nearly drivable) condition with a carburetor, distributor, and no stinkin' computers, with an 8 (or at least a 6) let me know.

And it's freezing in my garage. I've left one of those electric radiators on in there for about 24 hours now, cause I wanted to go out there and work on that remote RCA b/w in the metal cabinet I got at the fall etf, and it's barely made any difference in the temperature, if at all.

It's probably a bad coil. I work on these every day (In Crown Vic trim) and a misfire is almost always a coil, or Coolant from a leaky intake down a plug hole, but you would have noticed that.

You can test them easily enough by holding the end close to a ground while running, a good one will arc out the end of the boot and then some with a healthy snap, a weak one often won't have enough kick to make it to the end of the boot.

Just do one at a time until you find the weak one, you'll probably set some codes doing this but that's easily fixed.

Never had misses on my former 2003 Grand Marque ( 240,000 mi) or
my 2004 Crown Vic Sport ( 150,000 mi). I wouldnt bail out of that
car, they are as good as anything ever made. In fact you can not find used
ones in my area cause a few taxi companies buy every one they can
find under 200 K mi. I gave up & got my squaw a new Caravan. I
wish it were a clean CV , Marque or better yet a B body Roadmaster LT-1
Surprised with all that missing it hasnt set a code.........

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

If I can stand to get out in the cold tomorrow, I'll try that with the coils. I had assumed because when I pulled the plugs for the 2nd time, I didn't see any dirty ones the coils were ok.

Everyone says these cars last forever, but this is giving me all this trouble at only 73K miles. In comparison, my 72 Impala with the 400 had 115K on it when I sold it in 2006, still had the original 2 barrel carburetor on it. It ran great, it was just leaking loads of trans fluid, I think out of the front seal.

I had a 2003 Marauder for 10 years/100,000 miles when I traded it in just because. Second the hunt for a bad coil. If that doesn't do it, I'd think about sensors (I forget what there is - oxygen? air flow?).

Just replaced a crankcase position sensor on my folks 1997 taurus GL when it started randomly cutting out..

SR

I miss having older cars that I understand better.

You hit the nail on the head. You don't understand it, that's all. The crown vics are actually about the most-traditional modern computerized cars. They have their issues like any car, but there's a good reason why they were favored by police and livery for decades, and actually forced Ford to continue making them for 10 or so years past when Ford intended to discontinue them.

Get yourself a cheesy obdII scanner from ebay or amazon for ~$20. Even the cheapest one that won't describe what a code means is fine - just google the code number it gives you. Chances are good that if you have a misfire, which you do, you'll have a code (check engine light is on). The code will either indicate a particular cylinder (then you can focus your efforts on that one only [don't forget that fords are numbered 1234 on one side and 5678 on the other]) -OR- it'll say random/multiple misfire, then it'll be less likely to be one cylinder problem, and more likely a vacuum leak or something like that.

Like Eric said, these coils go bad all the time. And even if you pull a coil out and put a plug in the end of it, hold the plug to ground, and watch it spark while the engine runs, isn't necessarily a good indicator, as coils can stop intermittently, especially once they get hot. Also like he said, oil and antifreeze leaking into the spark plug wells is very common, and typically once the rubber boot is soaked in either, it won't insulate the spark very well, and will cause a misfire. So if you were ignoring that one coil boot that was wet with antifreeze, that's the culprit. If you get a code that indicates a single cylinder misfire, you can switch that coil with another, clear the codes, and try again. When the code comes back, if it's for a different cylinder, the coil is at fault.

Beyond that, vacuum leaks are fairly common. Ford liked to make some of the vacuum hoses out of thin rubber that expires easily and collapses, or thin plastic tubes that crumble or crack. Check all vacuum connections to the intake, especially in the back where it's less obvious, and just look at the integrity of the hoses and tubes. Most commonly, it's the rubber hose that goes to the evap purge valve, it collapses and the vacuum sucks a hole open in it. Though less common, the big rubber intake hose coming from the air filter can also crack, and create a small leak that will be worse under varying conditions. Remove it completely and take a good close look.

Another common issue is that the electrical connectors for the coils AND the injectors have a tendency to have their clasps break, making them able to come loose under the vibration of the engine. Ensure they're all tight. A loose one with a broken clasp can be easily remedied with a pencil-eraser size dab of silicone right into the space where the clasp of the plug broke off. Plug it back in, and when it dries, it will stay in place, but still be easy enough to pull back off for service.

Another thing to note - although it won't cause a misfire - is that this type of air flow meter tends to get dirty and needs to be cleaned once in a while to maintain performance. A can of air flow meter cleaner will help you with that.

Happy hunting!

Just replaced a crankcase position sensor on my folks 1997 taurus GL when it started randomly cutting out..

SR

Re-reading the symptoms: if it's bouts of multiple misses coming and going, it sounds more like a sensor than a single plug or coil.

It's only 9 degrees outside, and while the Mercury will fit in the garage, it's not deep enough to really work on it with the door shut. And even with that electric heater going for 2 days, it's only any warmer within a 2 foot radius of where I left the heater.

I've found it has to be at least over 20 to work on anything outside. I can wear lots of coats, but I've found that under 20 degrees I either have to choose between wearing thick gloves or having my fingers go numb, neither of which lets me do much of anything.

But you guys have given me some good stuff to think about, as soon as it warms up a little I'll check those coils. The check engine light goes off like crazy, but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars (I think they were the last time I looked them years ago), so I just didn't bother with it. Any recommendations on a good one, not too expensive?

I think I'm just going to stop trying to ineffectively heat the garage with that electric radiator, and bring whatever electronic stuff I want to work on inside. I can use my desk in the basement, or even the kitchen table - I'm here by myself for the next 2 weeks.

I'm cheap as hell...If it will still move reliably enough under its own power to get me to an auto parts store and back I go to a store that will read the codes for free (Autozone, Oriley, etc.) and have them do a read.

I know what you mean about working on cars in the winter and radiators being ineffective...My garage is not insulated on three sides & roof, there is no ceiling and the roof is ~2 stories at peak....All the heat goes up well above my head and stays there/leaks out. If my family and I continue to live here for more winters I'm thinking about buying 8'x4'x2" sheets of styrofoam to insulate the walls and make a crude false ceiling to trap the heat....

If yours is a 2 car or 1.5 car garage parking at an angle so you can walk past the front may be a good option.

It's only 9 degrees outside, and while the Mercury will fit in the garage, it's not deep enough to really work on it with the door shut. And even with that electric heater going for 2 days, it's only any warmer within a 2 foot radius of where I left the heater.

I've found it has to be at least over 20 to work on anything outside. I can wear lots of coats, but I've found that under 20 degrees I either have to choose between wearing thick gloves or having my fingers go numb, neither of which lets me do much of anything.

But you guys have given me some good stuff to think about, as soon as it warms up a little I'll check those coils. The check engine light goes off like crazy, but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars (I think they were the last time I looked them years ago), so I just didn't bother with it. Any recommendations on a good one, not too expensive?

I think I'm just going to stop trying to ineffectively heat the garage with that electric radiator, and bring whatever electronic stuff I want to work on inside. I can use my desk in the basement, or even the kitchen table - I'm here by myself for the next 2 weeks.
Those electric radiators are only good for a tightly closed area. In a drafty place like a garage, you need something like a propane forced air heater. Some refer to them as a Torpedo heater. Mine is adjustable to 80K BTU. I used this thing before I insulated and installed a natural gas unit heater.
In this kind of weather, you might have bite the bullet and see your friendly Ford dealer. When I was younger, I used to work on my own cars as much as possible, but not in this kind of weather. I'm about 90 miles north east of Madison and it's damn cold here. :thumbsdn:

but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars

The little ones have been getting steadily cheaper. If you want a real scanner that can do everything, $2k minimum.

Here's a cheapie basic one (https://www.amazon.com/Autel-AutoLink-AL319-Scanner-Automotive/dp/B007XE8C74/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1514232694&sr=1-4&keywords=obd2+scanner+autel)
This one is still decently priced, but will also let you look at live sensor data. (https://www.amazon.com/Creader-4001-Scanner-Diagnostic-Turning/dp/B06WP4KY24/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1514232694&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=obd2+scanner+autel&psc=1) I have a slightly-higher model one of these (model 6001) that I use daily at my shop for quick checks.

I would definitely recommend getting one with data stream capability. Not all cars have it in the data, I don't think yours does, but some have a misfire counter for each cylinder in the data. Still, when other problems arise, data is very helpful. Without codes and data, it's kind of like working with your eyes closed. And I don't know if you have emissions tests up there, but any of these little scanners will tell you if it's passing (I/M readiness). Also, it's always good to have one of these around to check on family's and friends' cars.

They have some other ones that are just a nub you plug into the car, and download an app on your phone to read it. Haven't yet tried any of those. Also I was just at Harbor Freight the other day and I peeked at the scanners there, I think there was a half-ass decent one for $45 or so.

The check engine light goes off like crazy, but I thought those code readers were hundreds of dollars (I think they were the last time I looked them years ago), so I just didn't bother with it. Any recommendations on a good one, not too expensive?


If you have codes stored that will be a big help. Some Parts Stores will even read the codes for free (with the hope of selling you something).

If you needs coils you can get an entire set from Amazon for $30 & up.

The codes for specific cylinder misfire are P030* with the last digit being the cylinder number. P0303 for example would be cylinder 3 misfire, (remember on a Ford #3 is the third cylinder back on the passenger side).

If you can narrow it down to a specific cylinder or cylinders it will save a bunch of time.

The little ones have been getting steadily cheaper. If you want a real scanner that can do everything, $2k minimum.

Here's a cheapie basic one (https://www.amazon.com/Autel-AutoLink-AL319-Scanner-Automotive/dp/B007XE8C74/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1514232694&sr=1-4&keywords=obd2+scanner+autel)
This one is still decently priced, but will also let you look at live sensor data. (https://www.amazon.com/Creader-4001-Scanner-Diagnostic-Turning/dp/B06WP4KY24/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1514232694&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=obd2+scanner+autel&psc=1) I have a slightly-higher model one of these (model 6001) that I use daily at my shop for quick checks. But I would definitely recommend getting one with data stream capability. Not all cars have it in the data, I don't think yours does, but some have a misfire counter for each cylinder in the data. Still, when other problems arise, data is very helpful. Without codes and data, it's kind of like working with your eyes closed. And I don't know if you have emissions tests up there, but any of these little scanners will tell you if it's passing (I/M readiness).

They have some other ones that are just a nub you plug into the car, and download an app on your phone to read it. Haven't yet tried any of those. Also I was just at Harbor Freight the other day and I peeked at the scanners there, I think there was a half-ass decent one for $45 or so.

Only emissions testing required in Wisconsin is in Milwaukee and Waukesha (where I am) counties, and it is just a computer plugin at some local shops that signed on to do it.IIRC there is a cutoff for cars older than ~1996 where you don't need emissions tests for those.

Just replaced a crankcase position sensor on my folks 1997 taurus GL when it started randomly cutting out..

SR
I've seen a bad distributor pickup coil cause that. Often times it was a bear to get the thing re-cranked, not to mention pulling over without the power assist which is probably harder than actual manual steering.

I've seen a bad distributor pickup coil cause that. Often times it was a bear to get the thing re-cranked, not to mention pulling over without the power assist which is probably harder than actual manual steering.

I had an older Dakota with this issue. It would run fine for months, then stall. After it cut out, the longer you let it set, the longer it would run once you started it. If it sat for 5 minutes it would run a mile...but let it sit an hour & it would run another 3 months. Only figured out the cause when it finally quit altogether one snowy day.

Last month I looked at a customer's Grand Marquis; the odometer read around 385k. It was well broken-in!

Only emissions testing required in Wisconsin is in Milwaukee and Waukesha (where I am) counties, and it is just a computer plugin at some local shops that signed on to do it.IIRC there is a cutoff for cars older than ~1996 where you don't need emissions tests for those.

You're wrong for a change! Milwaukee, Ozaukee, Sheboygan, Waukesha, Racine and Kenosha counties require it.
The state of Illinois had the nerve to blame us for their air pollution, so it all the counties nearest the lake have to have it done.
I take my vehicles to the auto repair and tire center in Port Washington and they issue a printout and notify the DOT.
All 96 and newer that use the OBC-2 module. :scratch2:

I've seen a bad distributor pickup coil cause that. Often times it was a bear to get the thing re-cranked, not to mention pulling over without the power assist which is probably harder than actual manual steering.

Been there.. The taurus stalled once in traffic and luckily it re-started. The problem was random for awhile there. Finally, it threw a "check engine" light and my neighbor brought home his SNAP ON scanner from work and pulled the code. Then he researched mitchel on line and narrowed it down to the crankcase sensor. I admit i was skeptical when i changed it out, but its been smooth ever since.. :)

SR

I've owned bunches of the 4.6 Ford V8's in Lincoln form and Crown Vic, and I'd bet money its a coil issue. Often, the coil itself is OK but the rubber boot has a weak spot that allows the spark to jump to ground and cause a misfire.

The simple $20 code readers on Amazon or the ones AutoZone or O'Reilleys uses will read the codes those types of misfires set. I paid $20 for mine on Amazon, and it connects to my I-phone via Wi-Fi and reads the codes. The last time I had a bad coil, it told me which cylinder the misfire was happening on.

Like any mechanical item, those cars won't last forever but the Crown Vic / Marquis / Town Car vehicles are far and away some of the most dependable, economical cars on the road today. I drive an '09 Lincoln MKS now with a V6, and even though it's been a great car, there's still something I miss about a good old-fashioned rear wheel drive V8.

Like any mechanical item, those cars won't last forever but the Crown Vic / Marquis / Town Car vehicles are far and away some of the most dependable, economical cars on the road today. I drive an '09 Lincoln MKS now with a V6, and even though it's been a great car, there's still something I miss about a good old-fashioned rear wheel drive V8.

Ditto.
You cant get that secure feeling from any newer FWD car. Only FWD car
I liked was my 72 Olds Toronado. You could floor it without holding the
wheel & it went straight as an Errol Flynn arrow, smokin up the tires.
No torque steer here ! Also would go through any snow with baldies on.
Oh the memories.............

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Speaking of towncars, anyone with $200 want this one? Needs a transmission, but the 4.6 v8 runs great..:D

SR

Bad coilpack.....been working on those cars since new.Been thinking about
buying an ex-cop crown vic,can get them cheap around here.The NYPD just sold
a bunch...
My buddy is a taxi driver,his main car was a Crown Vic with 449K on it,a Chevy Suburban took it out ,not mileage.. A cheap code reader would be a worthwhile investment
Pat

Speaking of towncars, anyone with $200 want this one? Needs a transmission, but the 4.6 v8 runs great..:D

SR

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196232&d=1514678089

omg I love the little derp face on the license plate!

Speaking of towncars, anyone with $200 want this one? Needs a transmission, but the 4.6 v8 runs great..:D

SR
Best to sell that to someone out of state anyway, chances are it won't pass a tailpipe sniff in Cali.

+1 on the cheap OBDII code reader, worth every penny.

my car (01 miata) would miss and bog when I was on the freeway, scary stuff. I replaced the engine ground strap and both ignition coils (hybrid coil on plug/wasted spark setup with short wires to jump to the other spark plugs) solved that problem. It still is kinda hard to start so I'm gonna see if she will throw a cam sensor code.......

Sometimes code readers don't work though. Last summer my grandma's Buick (3100 v6) just wouldn't start one day. I plugged in the reader and got no fault codes! I determined it wasn't getting spark, tested the DIS igniter module (under the 3 dual tower ignition coils), replaced the crank sensor under the damn harmonic balancer, and still no fire. turns out it was the OTHER crank sensor that plugged into the lower side of the engine block (facing the firewall/subframe) I replaced that and it fired right up.

Best to sell that to someone out of state anyway, chances are it won't pass a tailpipe sniff in Cali.

That Town Car is worth much more on soggy side of the US, never seeing much rain - not loaded with rust, salt, leaves and dirt. That would be worth a tranny rebuild IMHO.

That Town Car is worth much more on soggy side of the US, never seeing much rain - not loaded with rust, salt, leaves and dirt. That would be worth a tranny rebuild IMHO.
True, I was just taking a dig at California's ridiculous emissions laws. I'm sure Cali and Texas are loaded with well-preserved classics. Excessive rust and severe accident damage are the only deal-killers in my opinion, just about everything else can be fixed.

I agree, the smog laws are a joke here, that info coming from my neighbor the smog tech.. :)

He jokingly rubs his fingers together making the money gesture as he says "Just doing my part to keep California's air clean. :D

No takers so far on CL even at $250 the only body damage to it is isolated to the passenger fender. the front seats need to be re-done. but it does run and move till you get to OD then its like dropping it into neutral till the car slows down and the trans grabs again. Sadly, no yards are paying squat around here lately, and ill be sad to see it go, but gotta make room..

SR

If I still needed a winter car and it was not so far away I'd be interested...As it stands if I get a third car anytime soon my folks will be VERY mad at me.

Metal prices are down, I don't know what the market is like there, but nobody would pay $250 for that car here if it's not running.

Metal prices are down here as well. P&P offered free pick up and nothing more...

It does run, in fact, i was using it to and from work till the tags expired.. As long as you avoid "Overdrive"... :D

SR

So after sitting for about a month, I started it up again and it ran fine. I did check each of the coils by seeing if they produced an arc holding them up to the block and they all did, but it was running well then.

But after driving it back and forth to Milwaukee two days in a row, it started acting up on the way home today. Once the check engine light came on, I pulled into an Autozone, and had then put the code checker on it. It said misfire at cyl #2, which was (at first) surprising to me as it wasn't one of the ones that had one of the dirtier plugs when I pulled them. But I thought to look up how they number the cylinders to be sure, and they do it differently than how I learned it and #2 (which I would have called #4) is the one that had the dirtiest spark plug.

Now I looked and I can buy all 8 of the coils on ebay for less than I could get 1 for the price they were selling them at at the Autozone. Is this one of those things where the cheapies work just as good, or is there a real difference in quality? Also is there any benefit to changing all 8, or am I unlikely to see any others go bad in the future anyway?

If they were all making good spark then you may have a bad boot rather than a coil, however, a whole set with the boots is so cheap from Amazon it might make more sense to just replace them all, then you have seven spares (throw away the #2 coil)

Someone over on the A.R.F. Site used those cheap coils and said they worked fine.

It's incredible that a whole set is almost the same price that we pay for an OEM coil at work!

Be sure to put a little Silicone grease in the end of the boot, it'll slip onto the plug much easier and also come off easier later.

Is this one of those things where the cheapies work just as good, or is there a real difference in quality? Also is there any benefit to changing all 8, or am I unlikely to see any others go bad in the future anyway?

Given that the oem ford ones are prone to failing (granted, after ~15 years of use), I really don't think you need to worry about buying cheapie coils. They will either work or not work, there's no measurable difference in performance, only in that they may fail sooner than a higher quality coil (like a BWD coil). But again, since the oem ones are so failure prone, you'll be in the same boat with the cheapies as with the oem. Also, the autozone ones aren't bad, but aren't exactly made of gold, either. Definitely buy a set of 8, since you probably have the original oem coils in there, they're all just as old as the bad one. These particular coils are known far and wide for being failure prone.

In short, the cheapies from ebay will be just fine. If it was my car, I'd buy a set of cheapies, and I'm an actual mechanic.

Also... I bloody warned you about the cylinder numbering on fords.

So after sitting for about a month, I started it up again and it ran fine. I did check each of the coils by seeing if they produced an arc holding them up to the block and they all did, but it was running well then.

But after driving it back and forth to Milwaukee two days in a row, it started acting up on the way home today. Once the check engine light came on, I pulled into an Autozone, and had then put the code checker on it. It said misfire at cyl #2, which was (at first) surprising to me as it wasn't one of the ones that had one of the dirtier plugs when I pulled them. But I thought to look up how they number the cylinders to be sure, and they do it differently than how I learned it and #2 (which I would have called #4) is the one that had the dirtiest spark plug.

Now I looked and I can buy all 8 of the coils on ebay for less than I could get 1 for the price they were selling them at at the Autozone. Is this one of those things where the cheapies work just as good, or is there a real difference in quality? Also is there any benefit to changing all 8, or am I unlikely to see any others go bad in the future anyway?
It was great talking to you at the WARCI meet. I brought bad luck to your car by asking you about it. :D

$200 later and the Lincoln is gone... :D

SR

$200 later and the Lincoln is gone... :D

SR

So like, you got $200 for it? Or you paid $200 to have it removed?

Was paid $200 and they drove it off.. :)

SR

It was great talking to you at the WARCI meet. I brought bad luck to your car by asking you about it. :D

I think it was a good thing because I finally figured out what was wrong with it :yes:

I replaced that cylinder #2 coil and now it runs great (better than it has in years). After I knew what to look for, I could see where it was arcing through the boot in that coil. I have the other 7 new coils and I'll swap them in too once the weather warms up more.

After I drove it for a bit, the engine wasn't warming up and I got another check engine code, but that just turned out to be a stuck thermostat. I put in a new one and that problem went away too.

Noice.