View Full Version : Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV


Crist Rigott
10-22-2017, 09:22 PM
I just got this this weekend.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171021_121826a_zpsilp7dijs.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171021_121826a_zpsilp7dijs.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171021_121602a_zpslgnfkinm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171021_121602a_zpslgnfkinm.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171021_122144a_zpspb7u9rig.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171021_122144a_zpspb7u9rig.jpg.html)

I tested the 19AP4 CRT and after cooking it awhile and doing a Clean on it using my BK 467 CRT tester, the CRT did come to life but just in the green. This picture shows the condition with 6.3V filament.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171022_095741a_zps0gjmjd9y.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171022_095741a_zps0gjmjd9y.jpg.html)

This picture shows the filament at 7V.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171022_095717a_zpspbmaz233.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/0%20Zenith%20H2447R%2019%20Inch%20Porthole/20171022_095717a_zpspbmaz233.jpg.html)

Do you think I need another CRT? Let me know.

benman94
10-22-2017, 09:27 PM
Recap the chassis and do a normal restoration. The jug will more than likely produce an image, just not a super bright one.

I've seen dead looking B/W CRTs produce a nice, focused, fairly bright picture. The best CRT tester is a working chassis.

If you do need a CRT, a 19AP4 isn't terribly hard to find.

decojoe67
10-22-2017, 10:29 PM
Recap the chassis and do a normal restoration. The jug will more than likely produce an image, just not a super bright one.

I've seen dead looking B/W CRTs produce a nice, focused, fairly bright picture. The best CRT tester is a working chassis.

If you do need a CRT, a 19AP4 isn't terribly hard to find.
I agree, the CRT will likely produce an acceptable picture. If need be, you can put a brightener on it. I put one on my "soft" CRT in my 630TS and it looks excellent.
That's a classic vintage TV by the way. Nice score! I've loved that model ever since a kid seeing it in the Stooges "Census Takers" episode.

EdKozk2
10-22-2017, 11:40 PM
Nice find Christ, and to have a working 19AP4.:thmbsp:
Ed

Crist Rigott
10-23-2017, 10:06 AM
Thanks guys for the comments. I'm very happy I got it. The cabinet is in very nice shape and the chassis is too. I'll do the restore and then see how the 19AP4 looks. I like the brightener idea too.

Electronic M
10-23-2017, 12:25 PM
I've got a dual chassis 16" IIRC 24H20 porthole. CRT was stone dead and Nick and Mark hit it with a CR-70 rejuvinator and got it up in to the mid to upper red, set is all original caps except for 4-5 papers that were swapped for maroon drops in the 60's or 70's...It somehow came to life with a reasonably bright picture in that state.

Aside form the weak flyback on some portholes these sets are indestructible.

Sandy G
10-23-2017, 03:49 PM
These things ABSOLUTELY Blow the minds of yr typical smart alec teenager...Its almost worth the money for what one costs just to see the reactions they cause...

benman94
10-23-2017, 05:35 PM
Another thing to keep in mind: sometimes these tubes were last used 60+ years ago and have developed a very minor, and expected, case of cathode poisoning. The typical current draw of a tester is usually insufficient to bring the tube back up. Either forcing the tube to wake up via elevated heater voltage, cleaning it by pulling more current from the cathode a la the Beltron, running the tube on a working chassis with HV to clean up the cathode or some combination of the three is necessary to really get a tube working again.

My own two "dead" CRT stories: I won a 16AP4 at the ETF auction a few years ago that has been tested by some guy with a CR-7000. He wrote it off as a lost cause; it had low emissions and bad cutoff.

I won it for $5 or $10, cleaned it on the Beltron. Now it tests like a brand new tube, has excellent cutoff, and is residing in a nice little Emerson producing a flawless image.

The big Westy you just delivered for me looked poor on Beltron initially. Knowing I'd never find another 24AP4, I decided to bring the set up on a Variac. The tube is nice and bright, actually so bright it's irritating to look at.

I retested it on the Beltron after unplugging the set and going away for the weekend. This morning it read right at the top of the scale with a 30ish second life test. It just needed a good "scrubbing" of the cathode and just running the set for 4 minutes or so must have been sufficient to clear up the cathode.

Again, recap and run it. I think you likely have a good tube.

Crist Rigott
10-23-2017, 08:41 PM
Thanks for the good comments guys. I noticed that my BK 467 tester needs calibration on the filament scale. When the tester reads 6.3V, the CRT is only getting like 5.7V under load. I didn't check the filament reading with no load.

So when I cooked it at "7V" it was really close to 6.3V and I still got into the green. I'm thinking now especially after everybody's comments, the CRT will provide good service.

Stay tuned for the restoration.

Kevin Kuehn
10-23-2017, 10:34 PM
Looking forward to watching this restore. :thmbsp:

matt.caputo
10-24-2017, 06:50 AM
Wow, must have been port hole Sunday. Lol. I also picked one of these up on Sunday as well. Same exact set. My 19AP4 tests strong, but the chassis will still need some restoration. Found this set outside Gettysburg PA.

Crist Rigott
10-24-2017, 08:37 AM
Wow, must have been port hole Sunday. Lol. I also picked one of these up on Sunday as well. Same exact set. My 19AP4 tests strong, but the chassis will still need some restoration. Found this set outside Gettysburg PA.

Yeah, very nice score. Glad your CRT tested so well. They are stunning TV's! Mine is in just as nice shape.

Crist Rigott
11-01-2017, 08:49 PM
Test
https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg



https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7897a.jpg

Kevin Kuehn
11-02-2017, 01:11 AM
You need to put these at the ends of the image location.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg

Sandy G
11-02-2017, 08:16 AM
These things are just SO uncompromisingly W31rd looking... NOT in a bad way, heavens no...

Crist Rigott
11-02-2017, 03:38 PM
You need to put these at the ends of the image location.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg

Not sure what you mean. I'm really dumb when it comes to this stuff. I'm having an IT guy look at it for me.

Crist Rigott
11-02-2017, 03:39 PM
These things are just SO uncompromisingly W31rd looking... NOT in a bad way, heavens no...

I have no idea what you just said.

bandersen
11-02-2017, 06:24 PM
He means take this



https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg



and make it look like this



https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg



when you create or edit your post and it will appear as an image.

Sandy G
11-02-2017, 07:16 PM
What I was trying to say,& that obviously has gotten taken about as far out of context as possible is that these Porthole style sets were and are STRANGE looking-Especially now,as it seems that the normative "Look" for a TV is a black/grey rectangular plastic box w/little or no adornment at all. When Portholes were new, having a TV was still something of a big Deal, Zenith kinda run 'em up the flagpole,as the Sets with the "Giant CIRCLE screen", My Porthole is a12" tabletop model that is vinyl/leather covered. When I show it off, most people that are roughly my age-60 say they can remember them, but younger folks & kids are completely befuddled by it. Its also amazing as to how many people claim to never having seen A b/w TV of any sort...

Kevin Kuehn
11-02-2017, 07:41 PM
Zenith had a reputation of making strange looking radios too. Almost as if they were expecting future generations to collect them. ;)

Crist Rigott
11-02-2017, 09:24 PM
He means take this



https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg



and make it look like this



https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg



when you create or edit your post and it will appear as an image.

Bingo! Thanks Bob.

Crist Rigott
11-02-2017, 09:25 PM
What I was trying to say,& that obviously has gotten taken about as far out of context as possible is that these Porthole style sets were and are STRANGE looking-Especially now,as it seems that the normative "Look" for a TV is a black/grey rectangular plastic box w/little or no adornment at all. When Portholes were new, having a TV was still something of a big Deal, Zenith kinda run 'em up the flagpole,as the Sets with the "Giant CIRCLE screen", My Porthole is a12" tabletop model that is vinyl/leather covered. When I show it off, most people that are roughly my age-60 say they can remember them, but younger folks & kids are completely befuddled by it. Its also amazing as to how many people claim to never having seen A b/w TV of any sort...

Got it!

Crist Rigott
11-02-2017, 09:26 PM
Zenith had a reputation of making strange looking radios too. Almost as if they were expecting future generations to collect them. ;)

Good one Kevin. Thanks for the help in posting pics.

Crist Rigott
11-02-2017, 10:36 PM
OK, here goes. I've started on the restoration of this TV. In the next few days or week I'll get caught up with the progress that I've made.

Fist off I'm working on the HV cage and Fly back. The FB coating was pretty melted and cracked. What I did to restore the FB will be part of the upcoming posts. What I'd like to show you guys and get opinions on is that the 1B3GT filament winding that is around the core of the FB might have an issue. The wire is held off the FB core with 2 thin pieces of a fiberglass like material. Where the filament winding has passed through those pieces, it looks like they "dug" into the insulation, thus compromising the insulation. Here are 2 pictures of the filament winding and how it is held in place around the FB:

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7897a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7896a.jpg

Now here is a close up of the damage to the insulation. It goes in some but not all the way to the conductor:
https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7920a.jpg

I think I need to replace that wire. Now here is another question. If the original wire is lets say 20Kv and I use 40Kv wire, will there be enough "juice" to get through the "extra" insulation of the 30Kv wire to work the 1B3GT?

jr_tech
11-02-2017, 11:13 PM
"I think I need to replace that wire. Now here is another question. If the original wire is lets say 20Kv and I use 40Kv wire, will there be enough "juice" to get through the "extra" insulation of the 30Kv wire to work the 1B3GT?"

Sure, this is just a transformer with a one turn coil providing the 1.25 Volts for the 1B3 filament. Turns ratio is the only thing that counts here, extra insulation on the wire will not make any difference.

jr

MadMan
11-02-2017, 11:21 PM
These things are just SO uncompromisingly W31rd looking... NOT in a bad way, heavens no...

l33t sp34k?! (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=leet+speak) I haven't seen that for ages. w00t :3

Sandy G
11-03-2017, 12:13 AM
Uhh, now you've got sumpin even I never heard of...(Grin) STILL wish I could "Big Deal" a bunch of youse guys to come pay me a visit sometime next spring.. I'd take you to Sneedville,where they have this WILD commemorative to their War Dead.... Its a statue of a reputed Italian soldier... Seriously. They wanted to put up a statue to their War Dead, but they couldn't afford a NEW American one, so they bought a USED Italiano one..Hawk nose, handlebar 'Stache" holding a Carcano rifle, & a WTF-Am-I-doin'-HERE look on his face.. Most of you know that I'm a reasonably good Bullchip Artiste,but even I couldn't dream up anything to beat that..

Crist Rigott
11-03-2017, 12:15 AM
Guys, Lets stay on topic. thanks.

Sandy G
11-03-2017, 06:00 AM
I'm TRULY sorry that something I said got a bunch of y'all all upset & Discombobulated...THAT, of course, was/is never my intention.

Crist Rigott
11-03-2017, 10:03 AM
I'm TRULY sorry that something I said got a bunch of y'all all upset & Discombobulated...THAT, of course, was/is never my intention.

Not at all "upset & Discombobulated". But I'm just trying to control "thread drift". Apology accepted.

init4fun
11-03-2017, 10:55 AM
......... If the original wire is lets say 20Kv and I use 40Kv wire, will there be enough "juice" to get through the "extra" insulation of the 30Kv wire to work the 1B3GT?

The voltage breakdown specification of wire refers to it's insulation quality of resisting arcing only , it's the gauge of the wire that determines current carrying ability . If your question centers around whether enough magnetic coupling will exist with the higher value of insulation then I will say I believe you'll be fine , the extra voltage breakdown quality of the wire shouldn't affect the magnetic coupling as long as the gauge of the new wire matches that of the old .

Sandy G
11-03-2017, 11:23 AM
Not at all "upset & Discombobulated". But I'm just trying to control "thread drift". Apology accepted.

Can't help "Thread Drift"... All the Boatanchors I have exhibit it in one way or another.. The EK-07,& my RACAL RA-17 seem to be the least bothered by it..NOT a big deal, as I don't use any of the radios for RTTY work.... I also have a JRC NRD-545 that basically DOESN'T drift.

Crist Rigott
11-03-2017, 11:57 AM
The voltage breakdown specification of wire refers to it's insulation quality of resisting arcing only , it's the gauge of the wire that determines current carrying ability . If your question centers around whether enough magnetic coupling will exist with the higher value of insulation then I will say I believe you'll be fine , the extra voltage breakdown quality of the wire shouldn't affect the magnetic coupling as long as the gauge of the new wire matches that of the old .

Thanks for the great explanation. Just what I was looking for. I have some 40Kv wire from an old TV with the same conductor size that I'll use.

init4fun
11-03-2017, 03:23 PM
Thanks for the great explanation. Just what I was looking for. I have some 40Kv wire from an old TV with the same conductor size that I'll use.


:) Exactly what I've done in the past in similar TV high voltage cage repairs , that's why I'm confident you'll have no problem with the wire's higher insulation rating .

PS , I may not post all that much , but I've seen your restoration work and you do have great talent with making these old sets look great again ;)

Crist Rigott
11-03-2017, 04:23 PM
:) Exactly what I've done in the past in similar TV high voltage cage repairs , that's why I'm confident you'll have no problem with the wire's higher insulation rating .

PS , I may not post all that much , but I've seen your restoration work and you do have great talent with making these old sets look great again ;)

Thank you for the kind words.

Sandy G
11-03-2017, 08:21 PM
You fellers who really know how to Work on this stuff are near Deities in my book.. I tried to learn enuf to maybe change out caps & resistors & stuff, but even THAT was beyond my 57 IQ abilities...

Crist Rigott
11-04-2017, 12:00 PM
Let's try and get caught up a little at least from the start.

After removing the chassis from the cabinet, I took many of the customary initial pictures of both the main and power supply chassis. I removed the tubes earlier when transporting the TV back home. I then removed the CRT.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7741a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7684a.jpg

I then decided that this thing needs a bath. I went to the local "Quarter" car wash. Yup the local car wash. I used the "Presoak" setting to spray off both chassis on top and on the bottom. Then I used the "Ionised Water" to rinse them off. These settings at the car wash use a lot less pressure and with the wand 3 feet away, the car washing did an amazing good job of cleaning those chassis. Once back home I blew off the excess water with my blow gun set at 40 pounds. Then the chassis went into the oven set at 170 degrees F for several hours. Well worth the effort.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7751a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7696a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-04-2017, 12:15 PM
I then wanted to check the "health" of the chassis by checking all the transformers and coils. All checked good even the nasty looking flyback except the H Hold coil L22 (Sams).

I removed the coil.
https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7785a.jpg

I then unwrapped the black tape. Sure enough there was a broken wire.
https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7790a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7792a.jpg

I was an easy repair to make. I unwound 1 turn and cleaned off the insulation and soldered it back on to the green terminal. If you look closely you can see the original wire underneath the white tape.
https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7793a.jpg

I then used some black electrical tape to secure the wire.
https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7794a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-04-2017, 12:31 PM
Then I labeled each component according to Sams 120-13. This is my usual practice. This helps me understand the chassis and the parts locations. When labeling the parts I checked their value against the parts lists. This readily points out what the differences are. Sure enough there were just a few. The Sams had a few typo errors and I also used Riders V6-1 to cross check both the Sams and Riders and the chassis. The biggest difference was R39 (located under L14) is listed as a 33K resistor wired to the 130V bus. This was what the picture shows to be in the Sams. But the chassis has a 75K resistor wired to the 360V bus. The Riders shows a 68K wired to the 360V bus. I'm thinking that perhaps a 68K 1W resistor was in short supply and a 75K was used on the assembly line. Most likely I'll use a 68K resistor.

Also you'll see that I removed several shafts from the front of the chassis to a pot and the tuner to have better access to the components. These will be cleaned before reinstallation.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7827a-e1509757489865.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-04-2017, 12:49 PM
I removed the HV cage and disconnected the 4 wires going to the flyback.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7893a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7896a-1.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7897a.jpg

After removing the 1B3GT plate wire along with the 6BQ6GT plate wires and the door knob cap and 1B3GT socket I ohmed out the coils. They checked good. I then cleaned up the coils by removing the melted covering by chipping it off and using heat to melt it some. I used a lot of Q-Tips and acetone. I then cleaned off the yellowed cad plating and cleaned up the rest of the assembly.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7914a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/100_7918a.jpg

After cleaning I then baked the assembly at 225 degrees F for several hours. I then used my MG chemical Super Corona Dope and brushed on 4 coats. 1 coat on one side then bake for an hour, the do the other side and bake it again for an hour. This was repeated for 4 coats. The coils are just about filled and 2 or 3 more coats I'll be done. Stay tuned for the results.

jr_tech
11-04-2017, 02:39 PM
Looking good! :thmbsp:

I like the fact that you label the parts... I actually used one of your underchassis pictures when working on a set (7inch Philco?) . It was much clearer than the Sams photo, and in color, which helps, as well! Thanks!

jr

cwmoser
11-04-2017, 03:04 PM
Those are nice clean Chassis.
Mine was a rusty mess.

I have used a water hose on one of my TV chassis and it did no damage.

Crist Rigott
11-04-2017, 03:04 PM
Here are the Hi-Res docs for this project.
Once the click opens up the file, click on the "Open" tab in the upper right. Click on Adobe Acrobat Reader and then when it opens up you then can save it as like any pdf. Note: very large files.

Schematic:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/imuvrxrdk4bgou0/Sams120-13%20%20Zenith%20H2447R%20Schematic.pdf?dl=0

Resistors, Inductors, and Capacitors location:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e977okir2elrthl/Sams%20120-13%20Zenith%20H2447R%20Caps%2C%20Resistor%20%2C%20 and%20Inductor%20Location.pdf?dl=0

Sams 120-13
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwcrok7re104d5u/Sams%20120-13.pdf?dl=0

Crist Rigott
11-04-2017, 10:48 PM
Looking good! :thmbsp:

I like the fact that you label the parts... I actually used one of your underchassis pictures when working on a set (7inch Philco?) . It was much clearer than the Sams photo, and in color, which helps, as well! Thanks!

jr
Now that's a great idea! You're welcome.

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 12:21 AM
I finished applying the Super Corona Dope to the fly back tonight. After the last coat, I baked it for several more hours. Here is what I'm going with:

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7942a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7941a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7940a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7950a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 12:39 AM
I thought I'd restore the power supply first. Then the main chassis.

The PS chassis is pretty green from the CAD plating.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7926a.jpg

I scrubbed it off using a mixture of 50/50 CLR and water. I used a green Scotchbrite pad I get at the Home Depot. I then used Q-tips to swab out the underneath part of the chassis. All was rinsed with Isopropyl alcohol and then dried.

When flipping it over one time, it slipped out of my hand and broke the E-Cap phenolic insulator. After removing the E-Cap (C2) I removed and replaced the insulator mount using some 4-40 screws, lock washers, and nuts. All better now. While I was removing the rivets on the mount I also removed the Candohm (R62) resistor. I then bolted on a 3.5K 25W chassis mount resistor. I'll never have to worry about that going bad! I also used some heat sink compound between the resistor and chassis.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7952a.jpg

I then noticed that in 2 places a grounding lug was riveted to the chassis. I cleaned both up with a small wire brush and applied some flux to the area. I used my 150W soldering iron to solder both of those ground lugs to the chassis. Only one is shown.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7929a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 12:50 AM
I then got to work on re-stuffing the E-Cap (C2). I'll use my usual method of cutting off the base right at the bottom of the can, clean it all out, true up the parting surfaces of both the base and the can. I enlarged the hole in the middle of the base to 5/32. Then I epoxy a 1 inch tall piece of PVC pipe to the base. Making sure there is no epoxy on the outside which will interfere with a good seam where the base and can meet. Tomorrow I'll add the replacement E-Caps.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7932a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7933a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7944a.jpg

snelson903
11-07-2017, 01:40 AM
What I was trying to say,& that obviously has gotten taken about as far out of context as possible is that these Porthole style sets were and are STRANGE looking-Especially now,as it seems that the normative "Look" for a TV is a black/grey rectangular plastic box w/little or no adornment at all. When Portholes were new, having a TV was still something of a big Deal, Zenith kinda run 'em up the flagpole,as the Sets with the "Giant CIRCLE screen", My Porthole is a12" tabletop model that is vinyl/leather covered. When I show it off, most people that are roughly my age-60 say they can remember them, but younger folks & kids are completely befuddled by it. Its also amazing as to how many people claim to never having seen A b/w TV of any sort...

im confused

Electronic M
11-07-2017, 02:00 AM
With how toxic cad plating is (and that it is original) I usually try to leave it alone.

Given the set has not ran in a long time I'd be leery of completely sealing the fly windings. Sometimes moisture collects in the windings and it takes a while running the set for it to boil out....Plugging it's escape route seems like something to avoid doing.

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 08:53 AM
With how toxic cad plating is (and that it is original) I usually try to leave it alone.

Given the set has not ran in a long time I'd be leery of completely sealing the fly windings. Sometimes moisture collects in the windings and it takes a while running the set for it to boil out....Plugging it's escape route seems like something to avoid doing.

The CAD plating is removed easily and is captured in the solution. I think it's best to get rid of it once and for all.

Remember that I baked it prior to sealing.

Kevin Kuehn
11-07-2017, 02:00 PM
Looking good! At some point I need to try dipping a flyback in Polyurethane varnish and see how it holds up. The Super Corona Dope MSD sheet says it's a modified Alkyd, which I'm assuming means it's a your basic Alkyd resin with Polyurethane additive for better flexibility/heat resistance. Also most Alkyd and Phenolic resins are moisture permeable, meaning they will allow moisture vapor to slowly pass through them.

https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/f2adbad23d315e2e5ed04a1b03fa9565.pdf

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 05:25 PM
Thanks Kevin.

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 05:31 PM
Today I re-stuffed C2. I used some solid 22awg 600V wire for each lead to the terminals. I'll let the pictures tell the story.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7953a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7954a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7955a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7960a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7957a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7963a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8007a.jpg

jr_tech
11-07-2017, 05:39 PM
How do you get such a nice clean cut when opening the caps? Lathe??

jr

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 07:29 PM
How do you get such a nice clean cut when opening the caps? Lathe??

jr

I use a band saw then true up the parting surfaces with my disc sander.

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 07:31 PM
Just a fun fact. Here is a picture of all the resistors and capacitors I intend to replace during this restoration. $ E-Caps are missing from the photo. They are in a re-stuffed C2. All of the replacement resistors are the next step up in wattage. The 1/2W get 1W, the 1W gets 2W, the 2W gets 3W, the 4W gets 7W, and so on. The main chassis Candohm (R109) resistor is listed as a 15K 10W and will be replaced with a 15K 50W chassis mount resistor.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8011a.jpg

Eric H
11-07-2017, 10:09 PM
I'm still not sure about upping the wattage on resistors. I think I'd rather have a resistor smoke than a flyback or transformer. Granted a half watt or a watt may not make much difference.

Crist Rigott
11-07-2017, 10:24 PM
I'm still not sure about upping the wattage on resistors. I think I'd rather have a resistor smoke than a flyback or transformer. Granted a half watt or a watt may not make much difference.

Interesting thought. Though I'll add a "mains" fuse and then there is a .250 amp fuse in the HV cage. Though I'm not really sure what it protects.

All of the modern day 1/2W resistors seem to have very wimpy leads on them. Great for use on PCB's but not so good for point-to-point wiring. Another reason I used 1W, their leads are thicker.

Crist Rigott
11-08-2017, 09:26 AM
I finished the power supply. I decided to paint the chassis. I used Rust-Oleum grey primer #254150 and Metallic Matte Nickel #727830. I then used Bar-B-Q Black #7778 on the transformer.

There were only a handful of components to change. I cleaned the tubes and their sockets. I did have to notch one end of the aluminum plate because to went over the choke mounting ear.

I then cleaned all the wires underneath and going to the plug. All done.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8027a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8026a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8025a-e1510151220903.jpg

Sandy G
11-08-2017, 12:54 PM
Man, that chassis sure is PRETTY...Almost as striking as an E.H. Scott chassis..

wa2ise
11-09-2017, 04:48 PM
Sometimes I misread the thread titles, here I first misread "porthole" as "portable". Wonder if Zenith ever made a portable porthole. :scratch2:
Like those GE locomotive like portables, except with the entire round CRT exposed.

Electronic M
11-09-2017, 08:23 PM
Sometimes I misread the thread titles, here I first misread "porthole" as "portable". Wonder if Zenith ever made a portable porthole. :scratch2:
Like those GE locomotive like portables, except with the entire round CRT exposed.

There was a 12" table set IIRC 1950 model year in a leatherette cabinet...Not sure if they had the stones to add a handle and call it portable.:scratch2:

IIRC MacDonald had the engineers adapt a table model porthole chassis into the back seat of his limo so he could watch TV on the go....Some electronics mag of the day had a write up on it. I bet he let them do the article as a way to put out feelers to see if there would be a car-tv market.

Crist Rigott
11-09-2017, 09:47 PM
I started on the main chassis and the E-Caps first. I removed C1 and C3. When removing them, I broke off some of the twisty mounting tabs. This is usually the case. Once is a great while, I'm able to remove a can without breaking them off. These were really twisted!

I'll go into detail on how I re-stuff a E-Cap. Both of these caps are 4 sectioned caps. A while ago I won an auction that had like 25 E-Caps that were 4 sections with the sole purpose of using them as "donor" bases.

Here are the 2 caps and their donors.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8037a.jpg

I cut the originals as close to the base as I can with my band saw. I use a piece of 1/32 plywood as a shim to prop up the can because the base is larger in diameter. As I cut with the band saw, sometimes I'll rotate the cap some just to help keep the cut straight.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8038a.jpg

Here are the results of cutting the originals. All I'm interested in are the "cans". The bases are no good to me.
After removing the cardboard covers using my heat gun, I then cut the bases off the donor caps. This iime close but not so close to the base as with the originals. Here are the results:

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8040a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8041a.jpg

Notice how much fuller the original cans are compared to the donors. Here is a picture of the original cans and the cleaned up donor bases. I clean up the bases using a brass brush and then drill a 5/32 hole in the middle. These holes were offset slightly to avoid drilling through the terminal symbols. I'll clean out the cans using a heat gun to remove the guts, and some steel wire brushes, acetone, paper towels, and Q-Tips to clean the cans.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8044a.jpg

The donor bases are about 1/8 inch taller than the originals. Not a problem on this chassis.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8045a.jpg

Next thing to do is make up some sleeves from 1 inch PVC pipe I got at Home Depot. I forgot the exact size but maybe it's 1 1/2 inch pipe. It is the thin walled stuff. The first thing I do is true up the end using my disc sander and 90 degree guide. When truing it up, I rotate the pipe about 1/2 to 3/4 turns.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8046a.jpg

I then mark the trued up end with an arrow. This end will be glued down against the base.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8047a.jpg

I then use my 1 inch wide ruler to make a mark 1 inch up from the trued end. I go all around the pipe.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8048a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8049a.jpg

I then cut off the pipe on the line just made. I then clean up the cut end with the disc sander. I then repeat the whole process for the other sleeve starting with truing up one end.
Once I have the sleeves cut out I then de-burr them using my hobby knife and #11 blade, and some 80 grit sandpaper.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8050a.jpg

I then use 15 minute epoxy and apply the epoxy on the trued up end being careful not to get any epoxy on the outside of the sleeve. Then the sleeve is inserted down onto the base. I then clean off any and all epoxy that has gotten onto the outside of the sleeve especially down near the base. Any epoxy here will prevent a good seam when the can is put into place.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8052a.jpg

WISCOJIM
11-09-2017, 11:41 PM
IIRC MacDonald had the engineers adapt a table model porthole chassis into the back seat of his limo so he could watch TV on the go....Some electronics mag of the day had a write up on it. I bet he let them do the article as a way to put out feelers to see if there would be a car-tv market.Different MacDonald?

https://books.google.com/books?id=NNkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=macdonald+zenith+car+tv&source=bl&ots=hyMDOvoOq1&sig=SRDIg0CjNKlrNAEnef_NN6NFHhE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEtrO2l7PXAhUGRSYKHYm4BH0Q6AEIQTAE#v=on epage&q=macdonald%20zenith%20car%20tv&f=false

.

Electronic M
11-10-2017, 01:48 AM
Different MacDonald?

https://books.google.com/books?id=NNkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=macdonald+zenith+car+tv&source=bl&ots=hyMDOvoOq1&sig=SRDIg0CjNKlrNAEnef_NN6NFHhE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEtrO2l7PXAhUGRSYKHYm4BH0Q6AEIQTAE#v=on epage&q=macdonald%20zenith%20car%20tv&f=false

.
That is the article I remember.

WISCOJIM
11-10-2017, 08:14 AM
That is the article I remember.I don't think this William M. MacDonald, Jr. had anything to do with Zenith Corp.

.

Crist Rigott
11-10-2017, 11:01 AM
OK, back on topic.
Here is what I did to make recapping a whole lot easier. I took 2 pieces of hardwood about 5/8 by 3/4 by 12 and bolted the to the side of the chassis. This allows a comfortable tilt while I'm working.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8077a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-11-2017, 09:14 AM
OK, lets stuff C3. This E-Cap has 4 sections to it. For section A I'm using a 22uf 500V, section B is a 39uf 350V, section C is a 100uf 100V, and section D is a 82uf 100V cap. All are 105C Nichicons.

First thing I do is the see how well they fit into the PVC sleeve. Typically 4 will fit nicely. This gives me an idea on how to hot glue them together. I usually start with the 2 largest caps and glue them together with the negative terminals close to each other. Then the next largest and finally the smallest cap. I align the negative end of the caps to be equal. I then trim off the positive lead of each cap to about 1/4 inch in length. I then fold over the negative leads with my round nosed pliers toward the center and trim them off.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8064a.jpg

I use solid 22awg 600V wire for the new leads. I use black for the common and then loop it around the negative leads and solder them all together.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8065a.jpg

I then use the coil method to solder the new wires on each cap. For section A I use brown, section B is red, and so on.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8066a.jpg

I then fold over each wire toward the middle and then fold it again to have all the wires coming out together. Again, I use round nosed pliers for this. I then secure the wires together with some lacing cord to secure them.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8069a.jpg

I then insert the wires through the 5/32 hole I drilled into the base. I then place a mark on the wires where I want to strip them. I leave the common wire stripped a little longer like about 1/4 inch. I then trim off the excess wire length.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8070a.jpg

Next I put a large bead of hot glue on the lacing cord knot and inset the assembly into base. I then use hot glue around the inside of the sleeve to attach the caps to the sleeve.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8071a.jpg

I then terminate the wires on the base terminals. I typically will wrap the wires below the hole in the terminals. This leaves as much room for wires in the hole as possible. On this cap the half moon is section A, square is section B, triangle is section C, and no mark is section D. I'll terminate the common wire after the base is inserted into the chassis.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8072a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8075a.jpg

The new base is installed into the chassis, the common wire terminated and the soldered onto the chassis. Notice I went easy on the twisty things. The next guy will appreciate that. Though thinking about it, he'll never have to remove the base. Just unsolder the wires and pop out the caps!

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8081a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-11-2017, 12:24 PM
Next up is C5. I used a 22uf 350V Nichicon cap. I installed a 3 position terminal strip and folded over the ground lug to keep it out of the way.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8082a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8092a.jpg

Then C6 got replaced with a Nichicon 10uf 350V cap. I used a 2 position terminal strip and soldered the ground lug to the chassis.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8093a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8095a.jpg

bandersen
11-11-2017, 01:55 PM
Beautiful job but one thought occurs to me. Capacitors can get warm from self heating due to internal ESR plus ripple current. Especially the main B+ filter caps. Sealing them up with hot glue and PVC isn't going to allow them to breathe much and may hasten their demise.

Crist Rigott
11-11-2017, 04:31 PM
Thanks Bob. Good thought. After I get it running and with the can off I'll do a temp measurement and report back. I just might need to be reminded. Then again with the can on might be a good idea. We'll see together how this method works out.

init4fun
11-11-2017, 06:09 PM
;) This is why whenever I restuff cans I always make sure to go with 105 C rated caps rather than the 85 C rated ones , and haven't had any failures of my restuffs yet .

Crist Rigott
11-11-2017, 06:33 PM
;) This is why whenever I restuff cans I always make sure to go with 105 C rated caps rather than the 85 C rated ones , and haven't had any failures of my restuffs yet .

Yep!

Crist Rigott
11-11-2017, 06:39 PM
I did some chassis work this afternoon. I looked for a section that could complete and saw this section. R116 was a 2 part resistor of 200 ohms each rated at 3W. Also the Candohm resistor is 15K rated at 10W. It was open. Didn't really matter, it was going to get replaced anyway.
I replaced the 200 ohm 3W with 200 ohm 7W resistors and the Candohm was replaced with a 15K 50W chassis mount resistor. I used some heat sink compound between the resistor and chassis.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_7751b.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8099a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-12-2017, 04:55 PM
When I recap a chassis, I usually replace the resistors, and mica caps too. I get my 1W resistors from Mouser and they only cost 4 cents each, so I change them out. Of the past chassis I've done I see that at least 50% of the resistors are out of tolerance, 25% are very close, and 25% are within tolerance.

I'll cover what I do on a terminal strip. Tube sockets are treated the same. The first thing I do is take several pictures of the terminal strip. Then I draw out the terminals and what is connected to them. I also add where the other end is terminated. I then double check my drawing.

I then cut off the components and leave about 1/4 long leads still attached to the terminals. Then I use my solder sucker and solder wick, I clean off the terminal and remove the cut off leads. Then if a wire/wires are attached to the terminal, I clean it up and put the wire as far down the terminal as possible. I trim the leads to wrap around the terminal but not long enough to go back over the hole in the terminal. This keeps the hole opened up for additional components. When the wire/wires are set on the terminal, I then solder them to the terminal using as little solder as possible. I do this to be sure that the wire/wires are soldered to the terminal because when components are added and with the wire/wires being down low, they might be missed when adding solder. Also this small amount of solder holds the wire in place.

I then try to add the components in a logical manner. Once the terminal is fully populated, I solder it and then clean off the flux with an acid brush cut down to about 1/4 to 3/8 inch and acetone.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8106a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8107a-e1510523629345.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8109a.jpg

tom.j.fla
11-12-2017, 06:32 PM
Nice! When I do a full restore I try to go the route you do. Once again nice, very nice. All the best, Tom.J

Crist Rigott
11-12-2017, 10:08 PM
Nice! When I do a full restore I try to go the route you do. Once again nice, very nice. All the best, Tom.J

Thank you Tom. Much appreciated.

Crist Rigott
11-12-2017, 10:17 PM
I did a terminal strip located near the front of the chassis. It was pretty much self contained and consisted of just a few parts.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8111a.jpg

During the removal of the old parts, I noticed that there was that yellow CAD plating residue on parts of the terminal strip.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8113a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8115a.jpg

What I do to clean off that residue is I use CLR cut 50/50 with water. I brushed on a little with a cut down acid brush to about 1/2 inch long. I then "scrub" the area with the acid brush. Then I mop up the area with paper towels, Q-Tips, and alcohol. The residue comes off very easy this way.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8117a.jpg

I then replaced the components and cleaned off the flux, and I'm done.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8122a.jpg

Since this picture was taken, I added some more solder to the lower ground terminal.

Crist Rigott
11-13-2017, 12:55 PM
Moving to the upper part of the chassis I decided to do the terminal strip near T3.
Pretty routine and nothing special to report except I had to lengthen a lead on R84 a 100 Ohm resistor. What I do is trim the one side to about 1/4 inch length. I then use some 22awg bus wire and attach it to the trimmed lead using the coil method. I then figure out how long the lead needs to be and slide a piece of 1/16 inch heat shrink tubing down to the coil. I then shrink the tubing and then use a 1/4 inch long piece of 1/8 heat shrink tubing to cover up the coil.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8123a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8131a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8127a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8128a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-14-2017, 12:15 AM
Did some work around V9. Here are the before and after pictures.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8133a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8139a.jpg

And some around V14.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8145a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8148a.jpg

And an over all picture of my progress.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8151a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-15-2017, 10:25 PM
My high voltage wire came in so I finished the Flyback wiring. I decided to use some new 20Kv 22awg wire. I've used this stuff before and it has worked well for me. The working H.V. is about 12 to 14Kv.
I used some heat shrink to increase the diameter of the wire and to provide some extra abrasion resistance as it passes through the then guides. I then soldered it to the 1B3GT tube socket and used several layers of heat shrink tubing to provide some extra strain relief on the wires as they go into the tube socket. I then used some lacing cord to tie the wires together before they go into the tube socket shell.

I also used some of this wire for the plate cap wire for both 6BQ6GT and the 1B3GT tubes. I'll terminate the CRT HV lead during the dry fit phase.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8165a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8168a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8169a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8172a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8174a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-16-2017, 08:55 PM
OK guys, I have some questions for the disc capacitors in this TV. I know they should be good, but I tested one and it was 50% high. So I'm thinking that maybe I'll replace them. There are only 10 of them.
My question is what do I use to replace them? I know I need ceramic disc and I'm thinking of getting 1KV type. I know there are by-pass and coupling caps. Do I get COG, NPO, Z5U, Y5P, etc?
Below is a simple chart I made up that shows the SAMS parts list and the cross for each size cap. Also the Item Number of each cap. I checked the old Allied Catalog archive but they don't really list the specs for those caps.
Any help would be appreciated.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8184a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-16-2017, 09:37 PM
I have finished the main chassis except for the IF Strip.
We, the VRPS of Dallas, has our annual convention this weekend so there will be very little work and posting on my progress.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8188a.jpg

EdKozk2
11-18-2017, 12:25 AM
I looked up your disc cap numbers in a 1953 jobbers catalog. Z5U and 5YP type caps will work fine. The originals were rated for 500 working volts DC or better. The tolerances were 20%. The .01 cap should be 600vdc or better according to one brand.
Ed

Crist Rigott
11-18-2017, 12:29 AM
Great information. Thanks Ed.

Kevin Kuehn
11-18-2017, 06:18 PM
On the electrolytic's heating concern: I tend to believe ambient heating from transformer and tubes is the dominant factor, but I suppose there could be a small accumulative effect. Many manufactures mounted cans under chassis with little concern for airflow. At any rate it would be interesting to check their temperatures relative to surrounding surfaces of the chassis.

Crist Rigott
11-21-2017, 12:32 AM
During this weekend swap meet at our annual convention, I managed to get a few "donor" E-Caps for C4. This E-Cap is the smaller diameter kind.
I restuffed it basically the same way as the others. I use some R/C wing tube that I had after building a model. This stuff works great. I kept the caps out of the sleeve because they put a slight pressure on the sleeve and I thought it would deform the round sleeve. I haven't cleaned out the cans yet.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8232a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8231a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8230a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8235a.jpg

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8236a.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-21-2017, 11:27 PM
The bottom side of the chassis is done. Every resistor, film cap, electrolytic, disc, and mica cap was replaced. Now on to the topside. The HV cage, tuner, yoke, etc.

https://tvrestorerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/100_8249a.jpg