View Full Version : The future of color


oldtvman
08-16-2017, 09:22 AM
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1963/11/10/page/401/article/television-is-alive-with-color



Interesting article in the Chicago Tribune from back in the day.

etype2
08-16-2017, 10:45 AM
Yes it's very interesting. Gives a perspective of the excitement for color TV back then.

I posted this identical article in another thread, buts it's great to see this again.

oldtvman
08-16-2017, 05:24 PM
Yes it's very interesting. Gives a perspective of the excitement for color TV back then.

I posted this identical article in another thread, buts it's great to see this again.

That was just before I bought my 1st color set.

tubetwister
08-16-2017, 08:34 PM
That was just before I bought my 1st color set.

LOL my Aunt had maybe an RCA ~ CTC 9 or 11 not sure ** big maybe 1960 21" roundie TV I with safety class that could heat the large Golden Gate st. S.F. Victorian frt. room on cold day, we lived in east bay burbs ,not OAK or Berkeley

The S.F. RCA factory - monthly renewable warranty contract Service tech's must have lived there SRSLY ,that was a genuine never the same color twice TV and not exactly black and white when supposed to be when it worked which was seldom at least when we were,

TV Tech was often there also,working on the beast or pulling the chassis or putting it back in off the shop bench and doing the convergence and all that

.Wasn't much color TV on then and again thing wasn't exactly B/W white when needed

RCA must have spent ton on that relic she had that contact and TV till they could not get parts for it (they said) & replaced the bloody TV around 1969 or so,with a nice rect, maybe 25" remote set

she probably cold have bought many better TV for that recurring stipend to RCA that I'm guessing was north of 5 large all total

She was single but had the dough & nice cars even a 58 Ford Fairlane 500 H.T. conv. monstrosity before the 64 1/2 V8 Ford Mustang or maybe something in betewwn knowing her that I vugley rember may have been a pontiac 61 maybe Catalina , she got tire of getting HT conv. maintained ( if know Frisco then a dealer svc, dept would empty your wallet with up sells and maybe fix what you took it there for


Aunti was generous too even when bought that spendy & big hi rise condo with the views ,

$$$ was never an issue with her ,she had a well paying responsible job at SF General that SRSLY paid a lot more than than a lot of fellows @ decent 9-5 and in 1960's

,thats how I learned what all that stuff was before I had ultimately had to do it yrs layer part time for a Magnavox AD while I studied adv. Electronics .1967-70 3 hrs a day at school before CSU Electronics and Solid State Engineering 1970's style . ~ 3rs and then a study change to an unrelated CSU career degree , & responsible career & travel + generous retirement now

Noting not many folks had color TV @ ~ 1963 our family first color was ~ 1963 a huge cabinet & frt. facing 6 speaker stereo & 21" bonded safety glass maybe CTC 12 clone in a huge Curtis Mathis 'condo' that was a significantly better and more reliable TV than my aunts T V but not always stable like all those were bnack then and it got some servicing by a local TV repair shop me later on .

it got some tubes , a peaking coil & .power switch ,TV tuner repair , & a red plating 6BQ5 pp output tube stereo chassis repair and a record stacker (grinder) upgrade to a Garrard model 50 & better pick up all

ppfftt The entirely mid century conventional Curtis Mathes stero chassis had those odd mid century package circuits in it that looked like crackes with wires in then ,


It had and a maybe RCA Colortron delta gun CRT at some point presumably a rebuilt what ever it was anyway and it usually worked for many years it was a full boat furniture grade cabinet not that pitiful RCA photo finish rubbish and probably a better TV in there than the same series RCA model anyway but not easy for 3 folks to move


Then I got mom (by then a widow but not cash poor & not wealthy and a home owner ) the family deal into a new Magnavox 25" combo at the Magnaxox AD by then I used to work at as that old one was deteriorating too far for me to keep up and study and I wasn't living at home at CSU and I was working and broke to pay most of my way& beer anyway



The mid century Halicraftrs S120 typically deaf SWL AA4 retro project is supposed have some pf those package circuits but it never did but they managed to put the terribly wrong uF 50C5 beam power outpot tube contrl grid cap on a tube pin spec. 0 to neg. volt grid but at +6v it shows now

the relic from the past , is getting NOS tubes and vitually a recap outside of newly aligned IF & RF tuned stages here anyway as soon as it all gets here in some days

,the obligatory Lytics and Diode are in there now and I can see a polarized line cord and safety cap in ther also,no need for a B+ dropping resistor all the related voltages are fine.

I have a retina searing 05.17 55" NIB 2016 4K HDR 1000 QDOT SUHD flagship tier Samsung + 5.1 in here binned for a Samsung Direct FA01 ultrablack motheye panel


the 2015 4K HDR Sony Triluninus + 5.1 @ my family cinema room and 2 1080p 40" ,42" NIB @ 2013 Sony and LG to round out the fleet

Sandy G
08-16-2017, 10:46 PM
My Dad thought, generally, that the Sun rose & set in Sears, Roebuck & Co's Hind end. They started importing some sort of color set, a smaller one,15-17" or so. But, they used a rectangular CRT-1st one in America. so he ordered one. The salesman loaded him up-most inclusive warranty, every doo-dad they sold w/'em. Good thing, too- That POS virtually STAYED effed up. Sometimes, the poor service guy would get it working, of a fashion, & it would die before he could get out of town. For some strange reason, I also remember it had a VERY bad, very PECULIAR odor as well. This was about the time GE introduced the Porta-Color, my dad-AGAINST my Mom's better judgment, ordered one of those. Henry, my Dad, lucked out- The Porta-Potty was a trouper-We had it til he got a ginormous Trinitron about summer '73. He sold the Porta-Color to a guy at work,& I think it soldiered on another 10 yrs or so. Its a 1000 wonders ANYTHING electronic worked here in Bugtussle-We were roughly 5 miles from the John Sevier Steam Plant, which supplied all the AC "Juice" for a large area. We typically had 125+/- volts, couldn't get a light bulb to last much longer than a week or 2. I don't think they used hardly ANY of the juice locally, we were always told it went up in the more populous Northeast. The plant was way out in "The Sticks", where if it blew up-Or was Blown up- it would just kill a few of us hillbillies, & the damyankees wouldn't be hurt at all. Who knows ? That wasn't the ONLY "Tall Tale" EVERY kid around here KNEW to be the absolute, positive "Gospel"...

dieseljeep
08-17-2017, 11:34 AM
My Dad thought, generally, that the Sun rose & set in Sears, Roebuck & Co's Hind end. They started importing some sort of color set, a smaller one,15-17" or so. But, they used a rectangular CRT-1st one in America. so he ordered one. The salesman loaded him up-most inclusive warranty, every doo-dad they sold w/'em. Good thing, too- That POS virtually STAYED effed up. Sometimes, the poor service guy would get it working, of a fashion, & it would die before he could get out of town. For some strange reason, I also remember it had a VERY bad, very PECULIAR odor as well. This was about the time GE introduced the Porta-Color, my dad-AGAINST my Mom's better judgment, ordered one of those. Henry, my Dad, lucked out- The Porta-Potty was a trouper-We had it til he got a ginormous Trinitron about summer '73. He sold the Porta-Color to a guy at work,& I think it soldiered on another 10 yrs or so. Its a 1000 wonders ANYTHING electronic worked here in Bugtussle-We were roughly 5 miles from the John Sevier Steam Plant, which supplied all the AC "Juice" for a large area. We typically had 125+/- volts, couldn't get a light bulb to last much longer than a week or 2. I don't think they used hardly ANY of the juice locally, we were always told it went up in the more populous Northeast. The plant was way out in "The Sticks", where if it blew up-Or was Blown up- it would just kill a few of us hillbillies, & the damyankees wouldn't be hurt at all. Who knows ? That wasn't the ONLY "Tall Tale" EVERY kid around here KNEW to be the absolute, positive "Gospel"...
The Sears set you're referring to was probably the Toshiba set, that used the 15" rectangular CRT with the big roundie type electron gun.
It was quite a novelty to see that big neck on a smaller rectangular CRT.

sampson159
08-17-2017, 01:15 PM
i remember a customer that bought everything from sears.appliances,clothes,etc.she had a console sears television.that thing was a stone dog!it broke down more than we cared to admit.was at her house 5 to 6 times a month.crt would last about a year,couple of flybacks,numerous caps and resistors,tubes galore.she always wanted it repaired.finally mr dixon made her an offer,"come and pick out any console on the sales floor even trade."she came in and looked over approx 20 sets.we had zeniths,rca,sylvania,a philco and admiral.all had flawless cabinets and worked like new.she decided on a jc penny set!liked the cabinet,nevermind the picture it displayed.luckily,it was a fine performer and it was at least ten years before we got the service call.i couldnt believe she passed up a flat chassis zenith,xl100 and sylvania gt matic for the pennys set.built by wells-gardner with a rauland crt.excellent picture and she was quite happy.as for the sears set,we all had a great time scrapping it.wasnt destroyed but taken apart and thrown away.we were never allowed to do any less than disassemble.no vandelism allowed in his shop.a nice slow,painless death to that bastard.never cared for a sears built set.good appliances-had a washer dryer combo that lasted almost 25 years.my fridge is over 20 and working just fine.but those tvs,ugh!

Electronic M
08-17-2017, 01:38 PM
Sears TV sets varied with year, chassis and maker. I've owned 5 sears tube color sets. Some were good others, not so much. I restored the chassis on a Sears CTC-15 clone, and used it daily for ~6 years*. It needed service every 6-18 months, but usually was something fairly normal each time.

*Still watchable but needed a couple of tweaks when last used a few months ago. I need to find a new place to put it.

DavGoodlin
08-17-2017, 05:06 PM
I inherited a Sears CTC11 clone in a nice big cabinet that belonged to mom's cousin. It was not used too hard, so it lasted until 1977 for them. The CRT was still good but I never got it to make HV without putting a B&K analyst, yet the oscillator was putting a good wave to the 6DQ5.

Another Sears model I saw a few times was the 1967 23v" color model with a Warwick chassis that seemed to be like an RCA, that model was so basic it did not even have a lighted channel indicator for the combined one-knob tuner.

A great Uncle who lived in town had one of those Toshiba rectangular color sets with long legs that Sandy G mentions. When they moved I ended up with it and do not recall much issue other than it did not look right yet the CRT was good. I passed it onto a friend who needed a set for his apartment.

Sears was pretty popular among all the thrifty Germans it seemed but only a few bought TVs and stereos there. Good thing too, compared to even the entry-level RCA's they were mediocre at best.

oldtvman
08-17-2017, 05:47 PM
My Dad thought, generally, that the Sun rose & set in Sears, Roebuck & Co's Hind end. They started importing some sort of color set, a smaller one,15-17" or so. But, they used a rectangular CRT-1st one in America. so he ordered one. The salesman loaded him up-most inclusive warranty, every doo-dad they sold w/'em. Good thing, too- That POS virtually STAYED effed up. Sometimes, the poor service guy would get it working, of a fashion, & it would die before he could get out of town. For some strange reason, I also remember it had a VERY bad, very PECULIAR odor as well. This was about the time GE introduced the Porta-Color, my dad-AGAINST my Mom's better judgment, ordered one of those. Henry, my Dad, lucked out- The Porta-Potty was a trouper-We had it til he got a ginormous Trinitron about summer '73. He sold the Porta-Color to a guy at work,& I think it soldiered on another 10 yrs or so. Its a 1000 wonders ANYTHING electronic worked here in Bugtussle-We were roughly 5 miles from the John Sevier Steam Plant, which supplied all the AC "Juice" for a large area. We typically had 125+/- volts, couldn't get a light bulb to last much longer than a week or 2. I don't think they used hardly ANY of the juice locally, we were always told it went up in the more populous Northeast. The plant was way out in "The Sticks", where if it blew up-Or was Blown up- it would just kill a few of us hillbillies, & the damyankees wouldn't be hurt at all. Who knows ? That wasn't the ONLY "Tall Tale" EVERY kid around here KNEW to be the absolute, positive "Gospel"...

I serviced a couple of those Japanese (Sears) imports, made by Toshiba. Sears would always take a design and cheapen it up, like instead of a metal bezel around the crt like the big boys, Sears was made out of plastic.

oldtvman
08-17-2017, 05:54 PM
I still say the entire tv development scenario would make a great Ken Burns series on PB S. Starting the Philo Farnsworth getting screwed by Gen. Sarnoff. and then the huge battle for color pitting two of the giants William S. Paley vs. Gen David Sarnoff. And neither of them were ready to back down from the fight. Sarnoff won because of the sheer amount of assets at his disposal.

oldtvman
08-17-2017, 05:57 PM
Here's yet another big article from Chicago. Chicago early on was the premiere color market when WMAQ and then WGN when full tilt into color http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1961/11/19/page/274/article/chicagolands-a-leader-in-color-tv-set-market

NewVista
08-18-2017, 10:02 AM
In articles & Ads, manufactures emphasized "new 24,000 volt chassis". I wonder if this was an effort to make the 21" shadowmasks brighter? At cost of increasing X-rays from screen?

benman94
08-18-2017, 11:21 AM
That would be a return to 24 kV. The 19VP22 was most commonly used with an ultor voltage of 25 kV. The 21-CT-55 and CTC-4 ran the 21AXP22 at 25 kV.

The CTC-5 attempted to run the 21AXP22 at atound 20 kV, which would have worked if they had been able to get 20 kV out of the CTC-5 flyback at adequate current.

Motorola used an ultor voltage of 20 kV or so with the 21AXP22 in the 21CT2. It worked fine.

The CTC-7 is specified at 23.5 kV; I think the CTC-9 is similar, both sets using the 21CYP22.

I think the "New 24000 volt chassis" ad copy is just that: adman B.S.

Eric H
08-18-2017, 11:35 AM
Sears in the 70s always listed their sets by how many volts of picture power they had, i.e. "20,000 volts of picture power!"

Tim R.
08-18-2017, 04:17 PM
The Sears set you're referring to was probably the Toshiba set, that used the 15" rectangular CRT with the big roundie type electron gun.
It was quite a novelty to see that big neck on a smaller rectangular CRT.

I've always been curious about these sets, yet there is close to zero information out there about them.

It would almost seem like Toshiba developed the first commercially viable rectangular color CRT. I know Westinghouse (unsuccessfully) tried to introduce one in the late '50s, and then there was Motorola's version that came out c. 1963 but was also plagued with problems. Based on what little I can find about them, these 15" Toshiba/Sears sets seemed to be fairly good performers.

Sandy G
08-18-2017, 05:48 PM
I kinda thought that back in the early days Sears'/Toshiba's reach exceeded their grasp-But I bought a 9" Sears color set offa Ebay About 10 yrs back that was/is as good as anybody else's. It has a plastic cabinet that kinda reminds you of a toadstool. Other than the cabinet having a yellowish tinge, , there's nothing wrong w/it.

electronjohn
08-19-2017, 03:51 PM
I was given one of those Sears/Toshiba sets a few years ago. Scrapped it out & got a bunch of terminal strips and a bunch of good tubes for my efforts.

NowhereMan 1966
08-19-2017, 10:57 PM
I still say the entire tv development scenario would make a great Ken Burns series on PB S. Starting the Philo Farnsworth getting screwed by Gen. Sarnoff. and then the huge battle for color pitting two of the giants William S. Paley vs. Gen David Sarnoff. And neither of them were ready to back down from the fight. Sarnoff won because of the sheer amount of assets at his disposal.

Would be interesting, then again 25 years ago, Ken Burns did a PBS program "Empire of the Air" about Lee DeForest, Edwin Howard Armstrong and David Sarnoff about radio. Come to think of it, like Farnsworth, as we all know, Sarnoff screwed Armstrong too. Too bad Farnsworth and Armstrong didn't get together and doubleteam Sarnoff but Sarnoff was so powerful, it might not have mattered.

I think the best irony of it all happened on 9/11 in 2001 is when the World Trade Center was attacked and the buildings fell down, WNBC-TV, a product of David Sarnoff, had to put up an emergency antenna and transmitter at Armstrong's FM tower at the Palisades in New Jersey. I could see both of them somewhere in the Afterlife where Armstrong says to Sarnoff, "looks like you do need MY help now!" :p Looks like Armstrong got the last word finally.