View Full Version : IR receiver punking out on my XBR


fifties
08-15-2017, 10:21 PM
I have a Sony KDF-70XBR950 Projection TV that I bought new in 2005, which has been pretty much trouble free except for changing the projection lamps twice.

Last night, it wouldn't respond to the RCU. I changed batteries, but still no go.
I tried my cable box RCU which can operate it, and also the RCU from my Sony Bravia, and nothing.

Today I discovered that if I held the RCU within about two feet from the TV's IR sensor, it would function. I took the RCU into the bedroom where the Bravia is located, and it worked just fine, from 15 feet away, so it's not the RCU, but the TV.

I have the almost 200 page repair manual for the XBR, but it's damn near like reading Greek; I can't even determine which board is for the IR receiver.

I would appreciate if anyone could help me with this; it's something that I've never encountered before, the IR receiver dropping it's reception ability.

I can email the repair manual if someone feels they might be able to decipher it.

tom.j.fla
08-16-2017, 09:59 AM
Your remote eye is on the H-1 switch board part I.C.3701. See page 103 print, 104 pdf for location in the tv set. Hope this helps, Tom.J

Findm-Keepm
08-16-2017, 11:01 AM
Here's what the H1 Board will look like - it's mounted on the front bezel of the TV. Attached to it will be the IR sensor, the second photo. NLA from Sony, Encompass and Union Electronics Distributors.

First things, though - make sure the IR window on the Bezel is clear of dirt, smoke film, and fingerprints, all of which can block IR and make the sensitivity go down. Second, make sure you have the +5V standby voltage going to the sensor. If it all is good, you've likely got a bad sensor, not unheard of - I've got several, but not yours. The one pictured is an SBX3071-71 and yours is a SBX1971-51P - same physically, but different (slightly) electrically.

zeno
08-16-2017, 11:34 AM
check one other thing. If there is sunlight or a bright light hitting
it it may be flooding out. Especially beware of any of the
"modern" bulbs. Cure is to remove the offender or put a small
hole on black tape & cover it. That works but your aim must be good.

I think these are pretty much the same. If its bad I would try one
that looks the same but check the pin out. You need ground, +5v & data out.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Chip Chester
08-16-2017, 11:44 AM
^^^ I think this. How long ago did you install your dimmable LED lighting in the room?

Chip

fifties
08-16-2017, 12:46 PM
Gentlemen, thx a ton. Tom.J and Findm, this is exactly the information I need.
If the sensor has gone bad, where would I find a replacement, would you know of a source?

AFA the IR window, I used a glass cleaner to make sure that it wasn't obstructed.
The TV is in a darkened room, and nothing has changed AFA lighting in a dozen years.

Findm-Keepm
08-16-2017, 02:06 PM
I think these are pretty much the same. If its bad I would try one
that looks the same but check the pin out. You need ground, +5v & data out.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Different - in pinout and electrically.

Looking from the top of the sensor, OP's is a mirror pinout of mine - swap the pins around and it would work if electrically the same, but.....his requires a "pullup" resistor (R3703 on his board), meaning it's a transistor output - the one I have is most likely a CMOS/FET output (direct connection to Standby 5V connection...). I was hoping....

tom.j.fla
08-16-2017, 02:10 PM
I did not find a replacement IR unit for sale at the sony parts dealers. Most likely will have to get one from a junk XBR sony. Sad to say thats' about the only way to get parts these days. All the best, Tom.J

tom.j.fla
08-16-2017, 02:50 PM
Brian, the resistor in ? is in series in the data bus most likely for isolation not as a pull-up as the ir is feeding at least two mpus'. I'm just a little "corn-fused"(:-) All the best, Tom.J

Findm-Keepm
08-16-2017, 03:10 PM
Yes, there is one in series with the data, but the 5V STBY has a 47 ohm pullup resistor in series - needed to bring the collector of the IrDa output to Vcc. When the transistor is on, this resistor drops some of the 5V, as the collector (output of the IrDa Sensor)is at 0.5V or so to ground. Works like any other Open Collector logic output.

With CMOS/MOSFET outputs, the RGs(ON) is sufficient to drop the voltage, and no pull up or pull down resistor is needed. A clue that my IrDa sensor was CMOS was the packaging - a carbon impregnated ESD safe bag.

OP/50s - can you measure the 5V STBY voltage? It can be telling - low, and it could be a leaky zener, and that could decrease the sensitivity of the IrDa sensor. With no signal (no remote command), the voltage at the IrDa should be a solid 5V, with a command signal, it should drop some.

fifties
08-16-2017, 03:26 PM
Findm, gonna dig into it now, and will report back.

Update; OK, here are scans of the top and bottom of the board. With my 72 Y.O. eyes I'm not sure where to measure for 5 volts, and then what component would I be looking to replace?
Also, would it be OK to operate the TV with this board removed?

http://i65.tinypic.com/118ogee.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/t7o4rt.jpg

zeno
08-16-2017, 07:28 PM
There is a pretty massive IC there with a clock so I would say
it needs the board. More than remote going on I would say....
Try e-bay for a part out. May take some time but a better chance
than most. Also watch for free sets on Craigs list. A parts set
is a nice thing to have.......

BTW never mess with the light box/engine on any of these type sets.
You will soon be holding a knife to your throat ! Even the best techs
in the Boston area only changed things at board level & still had troubles.

best luck
73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

tom.j.fla
08-16-2017, 08:28 PM
It looks like you pulled the wrong board. Board in your pix is labeled "QH". Going by service manual you need to pull the "H1" board, it's a lot smaller then one in pix. All the best,Tom.J

fifties
08-17-2017, 12:29 AM
OK, I knew someone was gonna call me on this. The board next to this one, labeled H1, has the power switch. This one has the power LED indicator, and next to it, the IR eye; the metal enclosure with the label on it. Underneath it appears to be a 20 pin surface mount IC.

I checked shopjimmy, and they don't have a replacement board. Is the only hope to find a set being parted out? Does anyone know of a supplier that might have one of these? No way will I be able to fix this.

Zeno, you think maybe a power supply problem? Maybe I should give up and buy a new set. This one is about 12 years old; is that good, average, or bad longevity for a DLP set?

tubetwister
08-17-2017, 04:09 AM
I have a Sony KDF-70XBR950 Projection TV that I bought new in 2005, which has been pretty much trouble free except for changing the projection lamps twice.

Last night, it wouldn't respond to the RCU. I changed batteries, but still no go.
I tried my cable box RCU which can operate it, and also the RCU from my Sony Bravia, and nothing.

Today I discovered that if I held the RCU within about two feet from the TV's IR sensor, it would function. I took the RCU into the bedroom where the Bravia is located, and it worked just fine, from 15 feet away, so it's not the RCU, but the TV.

I have the almost 200 page repair manual for the XBR, but it's damn near like reading Greek; I can't even determine which board is for the IR receiver.

I would appreciate if anyone could help me with this; it's something that I've never encountered before, the IR receiver dropping it's reception ability.

I can email the repair manual if someone feels they might be able to decipher it.

My confidential ear at Sony engineering level 2 and his engineering codependent couldn't even figure that one in the spendy lab

.The normal Sony thing for that want working I got a free $250.00..Samung 4K HDR 1000+ QDOT SUHD TV anyway it destroys the Sony and 95% the 2017 LED/ LCD TVs on the planet !

the Ext . warranty tech (*pre determined remote phone diag.by fools board puller ) was lost when I was taking to Sony anyway and he causes the main board problem and doesn't even know it LOL Knew it at boot loop andf figed out I de bug it or fix the mainboard or eventually find a salvage that comes and goes on paybay for these because I knew TV wasn't going anywhere at that point

OK I fixed and kept the Sony , BOM $175.00 Ebay and Digikey my new panel code binned $2500.00 Samsung QDOT 4K HDR 1000 SUHD in here ( *FREE *) winstead of cheaper same model series 2016 Sony (a dog) but the Samsung can with some arm twisting


I wasn't taking that 2016 Sony DOG for a better same model tier 2015 Sony with the Samsung in my limit lengthy battle for what I entitled to

lot of delays ...a holes



After fixing TV bogeys and check same and DC volts difficult to re initialize the Sony platform & mainboard



CAUTION if you don't underhand ARM COMPUTING fundamentals ,TV ANDROID System fundamentals and PWM LOGIC maybe stay out this it wont start just get a new salvage or used main board on pay bay and flash it

IN THIS CASE a boot loop re flash can be very difficult and maybe 6 of them or EZpeasy its nothing in manual of or factory manual in * this specific de bug I don't think Sony ever saw it
Noting this TV did have main board hard diag code but not the qualifier voltages for that IOW Silicon doesn't lie (if) it works and & you feed it properly at the right temps.& it not just just worn out




, This tool about a week to put together this is ouside of what sony ever saw and thier boot loop remedy you wont find easily'

Noting (if you have a boot loop ) the panel maybe wont light beyond a couple of flashes at power up if at all until a good main board function is present along with logic,logic feedback and PWM logic all has to be restored before it will start fir a **completed and very difficult firmware load in this case *

Half the story *here * (maybe less ) you can fry panel , mainbaoard or TCON if still good so don't be so be so quick ti try tall betts are off the table , this is not Sony procedure .




EZ part of story ,power up the TV with TCON >main board LVDS ribbon cable [off] the TCON board or mainboard then uising exact procedure not divulged re flash the main-bard and start it up with the so the main board can get the clean panel data broadcast and start normally with the TCON connected but it has lost its mind everything has to e reset including inputs outside of factory defaults or any conforming electronic calibrations (not much on a Sony}


I calibrate all all my panels to conforming standards and my variables BIG +++ don't let anybody tell you NOT ,

SRSLY add in the RF Tuners and HDMI , The main board here is basically an oversize ARM v7 3rd world Android phone without the telecom radio , camera and Mic, that all any of them are now

Samsung is oversize ~flagship Galaxy phone without the phone SRSLY and 100X better (So is the RF Smart remote nd the whol platform end to end and this TV it what a flagship TV is supposed to be


I will brief theve tale of how my crew (me) Found bug + found the only possible cause + via Sony or my e mails to devs ,,Netflix fixed it maybe by 1.mo

Neflix 2.1 suposed to be 5.1 many Sony TV after a brain flash >>>simple cause TV was broadcasting for 2.0 PCM remote Netflix browser identifier not the 5.1 tag and you get what you ask for ,,,,,SIMPLE

like my radio project going on her with maybe somebody(s) all ya gotta do understand with my electron education (s) and my simple mind compared to some .



unless a savvy tech , some don't imagine what we really did at CSU what I did B

fifties
08-17-2017, 04:49 AM
^ You know, partner, I have no clue as to what you were saying.

OK, so the strangest damn thing happened. I was hassling with my Sony Blu-ray/DVD player (fodder for another thread), and discovered that it could control the TV functions, power/volume/input, from distance. I then tried the TV's RCU, and it also was again able to do it's thing from the couch. So I have no clue as to what occurred, but I'll take it.

Chip Chester
08-17-2017, 12:17 PM
fifties wrote: "^ You know, partner, I have no clue as to what you were saying."

Me either.
I bailed when I saw another sentence that started with a period, or a comma. Started with one. Somewhat of an impediment to clear communication. :no:

Chip

Electronic M
08-17-2017, 01:44 PM
[Ranger Smith Voice] Please don't feed the trolls.

tubetwister
08-18-2017, 01:13 AM
^ you know, partner, i have no clue as to what you were saying.

Ok, so the strangest damn thing happened. I was hassling with my sony blu-ray/dvd player (fodder for another thread), and discovered that it could control the tv functions, power/volume/input, from distance. I then tried the tv's rcu, and it also was again able to do it's thing from the couch. So i have no clue as to what occurred, but i'll take it.

please forgive the cap [in] is stuck I have a stuck cherry mx brown mech.keycap or switch I will fix as time permits or use the warranty.


Your convrsation:

you may look at my qualified 6 yr educ. In my profile if it matters :


You may be getting a weak intermittent or failing spectrum broadcast from your remote as i expect from your first post given the age of the product and the related MTBF (mean time before failure )statistical mean and average in play.



Given the age of the product my considered opinion is :

Delayed onset remote control faiulre from normal use, deteriorations or external provations

recommend a good quality & qualified new remote control, Harmomy comes to mind lots of price ,features and benefit tiers all good quality

*unlikey inside TV potentials and provacatins*

note: The suggestins to contraray have no supprting arugument or plausibe hypohsies given the last reort,
and they never did beyond a random guess or foolish anecdotal opinon anyway which are considered foolish at empirical science not as an an insult or provocative
opinions are not scinece anfd rarley facts and always for sale or for fools in these matters .

Unlikely inside tv potentials and provacatins*

.0 POST was normal no errors present no time outs or soft resets or aborted startup. PWM/PSU is switching current potentials and restive/thermal load and storing reserves fine

0 PWM PSU device ,platforms drivers ,process device ,EDID broadcast to Video stack ,API ,I/O ,ROM ATSC sevvice and lamp are normal or active

....Grace notes API is down :

0.1 Ransom wear is dormant and at ready stay for remote execution or predetermined local provocations :-\


1 logic & logic feedback is fine TV will not start or run without both logic potentials /:)


2 dc voltage potentials are fine same rules. psu /Lanp current potentials and restive load are present lanp is active

3.you may haver intermittent ir syst or rem.likey typical remote delayed on set fail behaviors

4.thermal variables ,

5.external spectrum ,thermal or electronic provocations or variables like materials condition's

6. Materials deposition,deterioration's rust or corrosion , migrations or human interventions (dropped?) -(unintended tidy bowl cruising :-\ ) hurled at a hard surface just because :-\


Credibly add to this of course , can not support an empherical (factual) augment or the pretenders :
Otherwise shut the door on your way our you are mot qualified to diagnose any of this beyond pulling and pushing parts like an addled scroll boy
Tech savvy additions are always welcome as well as a good argument

Overestimated abilities ,cognitive BIAS anecdotal opinion and subjective opinion are not a diag. or facts or anyhing applicable here ,keep then in your trousers back pocket go sit on them and think about an education in the subject at hand or change your hobby or vocation.

oh ....and pretends the door rule applies to you too break,break

fifties
08-18-2017, 04:44 AM
Otherwise shut the door on your way our you are mot qualified to diagnose any of this beyond pulling and pushing parts like an addled scroll boy
Tech savvy additions are always welcome as well as a good argument

Overestimated abilities ,cognitive BIAS anecdotal opinion and subjective opinion are not a diag. or facts or anyhing applicable here ,keep then in your trousers back pocket go sit on them and think about an education in the subject at hand or change your hobby or vocation.

oh ....and pretends the door rule applies to you too break,break
Geez, thx, certainly appreciate your diagnosis of my qualifications...:rolleyes:

Ed in Tx
08-18-2017, 09:28 AM
Geez, thx, certainly appreciate your diagnosis of my qualifications...:rolleyes:

Apparently in all the pontification he didn't read in your FIRST POST:
"I took the RCU into the bedroom where the Bravia is located, and it worked just fine, from 15 feet away, so it's not the RCU, but the TV."

benman94
08-18-2017, 10:27 AM
tubetwister, I neglected to call you out by name in the previous thread but I should have. Please, stop with the personal attacks and stick to the topic at hand.

We all know that you have a BSEE, you never seem to miss a chance to remind us. Well so does Electronic M. I have an MS in Physics, and there are other highly intelligent folks here also capable of figuring out this IR issue, some of them college educated, some of them not.

One more nasty comment from you and you're getting a temporary vacation from Videokarma.org. Capisce?

Carry on gentlemen...

tubetwister
08-19-2017, 06:22 PM
Apparently in all the pontification he didn't read in your FIRST POST:
"I took the RCU into the bedroom where the Bravia is located, and it worked just fine, from 15 feet away, so it's not the RCU, but the TV."

I gave a possible opinion or two :

IR Specrum XMT

IR Spercrtun RX

As professional consultant or expert witness for civil ligation or et,al.


Well my new friend FWIW I get moneyed at my legal standing and credibility around all this and perhaps a Mojita or some phat Cuban after the show if we win .

This perhaps you do not know ,A professional covers both ends of a stick always given how unreliable witness are then we never what may commence at discovery beforehand that may blindside your party or dissuade or discredit your side and your`reputation ,reputation if your life blood in these matters

I just hope tha jackals don't take an opportunity to ridicule you in the matter before us given an obvious opportunity here

well it seems I must go and prosecute a cold mojta by my pool

well then my new friend , we will see what we

fifties
08-19-2017, 06:59 PM
^ So you're going to take my remote to court? :yikes:

benman94
08-19-2017, 07:02 PM
He's gone. Back to your IR issue...

fifties
08-19-2017, 07:26 PM
Geez, thx. I can't imagine anything worse than having one of my remotes litigated...;)

Actually all is OK for the time being. The TV's remote receiver is behaving just fine now.

Celt
08-19-2017, 07:34 PM
Burma Shave!

zeno
08-20-2017, 11:01 AM
He's gone. Back to your IR issue...
Good timing. I will spend the next 5 yrs decoding his messages.
This cat must be the victim of a creative writing class.
Thank God I dropped out in the 10th grade:yes:

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Electronic M
08-21-2017, 10:09 AM
tubetwister, I neglected to call you out by name in the previous thread but I should have. Please, stop with the personal attacks and stick to the topic at hand.

We all know that you have a BSEE, you never seem to miss a chance to remind us. Well so does Electronic M. I have an MS in Physics, and there are other highly intelligent folks here also capable of figuring out this IR issue, some of them college educated, some of them not.

One more nasty comment from you and you're getting a temporary vacation from Videokarma.org. Capisce?

Carry on gentlemen...

Thank you for the defense, and for dealing with that wacky fellow.

Life has been rough lately, and I just don't have the energy to properly deal with people like that presently.