View Full Version : Bradford console


Jon A.
05-28-2017, 10:21 PM
I may be able to get my hands on this in a few weeks. Anyone have any idea what's inside? I'm not even sure it's SS.

SpaceAge
05-29-2017, 12:25 AM
Get it! I like the clean styling

Jon A.
05-29-2017, 02:17 AM
Trying to, I'm putting out feelers for transport.

zeno
05-29-2017, 10:59 AM
Most Bradford consoles were built by Wells-Gardener.
Not a bad chassis. Other possibilities are Admiral or GE, only
one way to find out. Kinda looks GE. In any case prob a
rare chassis unless its GE.
Bradford was sold by W.T. Grant dept stores so its most likely
a border jumper.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

DavGoodlin
05-31-2017, 12:46 PM
Great find. I would agree it looks GE if for no other reason than the paint-worn fine-tune knob being blue underneath:)

Get a shot of the inside, I think I have some modules from a 1974 GE I scrapped. MB chassis

maxhifi
05-31-2017, 03:36 PM
I may be able to get my hands on this in a few weeks. Anyone have any idea what's inside? I'm not even sure it's SS.

I think Zeller's used to sell Bradford TVs. A friend of mine had a Bradford which had a terribly washed out picture. Definitely a notch below the big names, and most probably solid state. The CRT looks way too new to be a tube set. I would pass on that one, to be honest, but if it's calling to you better get it :)

Here's an ad I found online... Looks like junk predates the invasion of Wal Mart! Look at that sweet stereo and stylish living room haha

http://images.ourontario.ca/Partners/MPL/MPL002496086pf_0321.pdf

Jon A.
05-31-2017, 04:04 PM
I think Zeller's used to sell Bradford TVs. A friend of mine had a Bradford which had a terribly washed out picture. Definitely a notch below the big names, and most probably solid state. The CRT looks way too new to be a tube set. I would pass on that one, to be honest, but if it's calling to you better get it :)

Here's an ad I found online... Looks like junk predates the invasion of Wal Mart! Look at that sweet stereo and stylish living room haha

http://images.ourontario.ca/Partners/MPL/MPL002496086pf_0321.pdf
We have a winner! I just received a few more photos of it, says Zeller's on the back. I usually don't bother with big name sets anyway and this one's definitely delta-gun so it's right up my alley. :) The set itself is free, the downside is I have to pay someone to bring it here.

Oh man, that living room set makes me think of certain Pinto/Bobcat interiors. Well, that was the decade of leisure suits so the ad doesn't really surprise me. I'd take Lloyd's stuff over anything new from Wal-Mart any day.

The chassis number is on the sticker as well, maybe now someone can positively identify it.

zeno
05-31-2017, 06:45 PM
Looks like a GE for the most part. Chassis ## not GE.
Says made in Canada but that may just be final assy.

Canadian retailer Zellers concluded a deal with the W.T. Grant Company. The Grant Company was allowed to purchase 10% of Zellers common shares, and was given options that eventually translated into a 51% effective ownership of Zellers in 1959. In return for this, the "Grant Company [was] making available to Zellers its experience on matters of merchandise, real estate, store development, and general administration". Zellers employees were sent to Grant stores and head office for training and together they made common buying trips to Asia, a practice that benefited both companies. By 1976, the Grant Company withdrew from Zellers.[3]

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

maxhifi
05-31-2017, 08:27 PM
That's an interesting bit of retail history. I like this TV a lot more with the second set of photos, if you end up taking it home I will be interested to see inside, and read a restore thread

Jon A.
05-31-2017, 10:28 PM
That's an interesting bit of retail history. I like this TV a lot more with the second set of photos, if you end up taking it home I will be interested to see inside, and read a restore thread
Right on, thanks for the input. I do like the oddities and I'm definitely getting it, just not 100% sure when. I'm still looking for better deals on transport.

It wasn't that long ago that Zeller's went defunct. Target took its place very briefly then ceased all Canadian operations. Canadian Tire took over the leases of quite a few of the former Zeller's/Target locations. The Canadian Tire I frequent was a Zeller's. I never went in when it was occupied by Target.

That vertically-oriented AC interlock, I had never seen such a thing. Is that a typical GE feature?

zeno
06-01-2017, 02:03 PM
If it is a GE BEFORE you plug it in check the safety cap.
Usually the HOT is on a separate heat sync that is held
on by 4 plastic pins. Remove it & the cap is there. If its
the original white job replace it 1st. They went L & R on the
GE's & instantly blow the HOT. Yokes also shorted & the vert
module + & - rectifiers would short, cook the FBT & HOT.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

TVTim
06-01-2017, 08:24 PM
Great looking set Jon.

wkand
06-01-2017, 11:56 PM
I think Zeller's used to sell Bradford TVs. A friend of mine had a Bradford which had a terribly washed out picture. Definitely a notch below the big names, and most probably solid state. The CRT looks way too new to be a tube set. I would pass on that one, to be honest, but if it's calling to you better get it :)

Here's an ad I found online... Looks like junk predates the invasion of Wal Mart! Look at that sweet stereo and stylish living room haha

http://images.ourontario.ca/Partners/MPL/MPL002496086pf_0321.pdf

That ad copy is GREAT! I really like the 8-track "recording studio", Baaaa-hahahahah!

Jon A.
06-28-2017, 09:55 PM
I got it today and just uploaded a bunch of pictures. It's in better shape than the older photos made it look. I didn't see a brand inside but there's a chassis layout chart that says 19Q8. It has one of those horrid safety caps; seems corrective measures were never completed. It has a 25VEBP22 CRT with a date code of 7552, so chances are it was made early in 1976. I left the filaments powered up on normal voltage while I was out and it looks like this CRT may bounce back.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/154129135@N06/albums/72157684409589212

lnx64
06-28-2017, 10:04 PM
Most Bradford consoles were built by Wells-Gardener.
Not a bad chassis. Other possibilities are Admiral or GE, only
one way to find out. Kinda looks GE. In any case prob a
rare chassis unless its GE.
Bradford was sold by W.T. Grant dept stores so its most likely
a border jumper.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Wait, the SAME Wells Gardener that made monitors for arcade machines?

Electronic M
06-29-2017, 09:18 AM
Wait, the SAME Wells Gardener that made monitors for arcade machines?

In the days before video games they were a big supplier to the department store badges (going back to radios pre-WWII). Sears or Wards was their biggest customer, and there were plenty of smaller chains that bought from them...One could say they were probably the biggest electronics maker that did not sell product badged under their own name.

WISCOJIM
06-29-2017, 09:57 AM
In the days before video games they were a big supplier to the department store badges (going back to radios pre-WWII). Sears or Wards was their biggest customer, and there were plenty of smaller chains that bought from them...One could say they were probably the biggest electronics maker that did not sell product badged under their own name.Actually, they did sell some radios badged under their own name. http://www.radioatticarchives.com/radio.htm?radio=12383


.

Electronic M
06-29-2017, 10:38 AM
Actually, they did sell some radios badged under their own name. http://www.radioatticarchives.com/radio.htm?radio=12383


.

Neat. Learn something new every day.:D

Jon A.
06-29-2017, 11:20 AM
No thread jacking right now please, I'm hoping for useful information.

zeno
06-29-2017, 12:00 PM
Well it is a GE I have only seen the chassis in 19" sets
& the porta color 2. ( ch# JA, QA etc)
Orange mallory cap seems to be the safety cap so OK. White one is
probably boost filter.
CRT socket can be replaced by any delta socket but double check the colors.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

dieseljeep
06-29-2017, 12:01 PM
In the days before video games they were a big supplier to the department store badges (going back to radios pre-WWII). Sears or Wards was their biggest customer, and there were plenty of smaller chains that bought from them...One could say they were probably the biggest electronics maker that did not sell product badged under their own name.

Everyone except me, seems to make the mistake that W-G made products for Sears. There must've been some bad blood between W-G and Sears.
Sears buyers were known to cut the price per unit, after the firm set up a line for their product. :sigh:
I have a Wells Gardner badged model 0CM, built in Sept 1935. A fine performing, interesting set.

Jon A.
06-29-2017, 12:27 PM
Well it is a GE I have only seen the chassis in 19" sets
& the porta color 2. ( ch# JA, QA etc)
Orange mallory cap seems to be the safety cap so OK. White one is
probably boost filter.
CRT socket can be replaced by any delta socket but double check the colors.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !
I thought so, especially when the HOT heat sink matched your desciption. Hopefully the Wells-Gardner tube job discussion can be taken elsewhere now.

I'll need to put resistors in series with some replacement socket leads. I took out the white cap already and cleaned it up for a better photo.

Electronic M
06-29-2017, 01:32 PM
I wonder if those resistors are stock, or some repairman's kludge?

Jon A.
06-29-2017, 01:36 PM
Probably stock, I saw resistors in series with a CRT socket once before. Not right in the socket though. This setup may be unique to the consoles considering zeno's comment.

Edit 1: Scratch that, I just found out the resistors are normally hidden, at least in early SS sets with standalone CRT sockets. I just dissected a Zenith CCII CRT socket and it has the same value resistors, just with different tolerances.

Edit 2: Still not quite right, looks like the bad socket used to have a cover, and the resistor going to the focus pin is a different value than the one in the Zenith socket. I had to scratch off the Bondo (?) to find out. Every resistor from the bad socket has a 10% tolerance band, those in the Zenith socket are all over the place.

With no small effort I pulled the pins from the bad socket, noting the wire positions beforehand.

Findm-Keepm
06-29-2017, 09:41 PM
Shoot me some detail photos of your channel/Fine tuning knobs - place a quarter or penny in the pix for scale - no loonies....:D I probably have NOS replacements. I have 2 shops AND a distributor's stock of GE parts, as well as GE Engineering samples and "projects."

That Vertical module? I have a prototype :D and may have a NOS spare as well. I remember having one, but it may be for the 19JA sets.

One thing I don't have is the safety cap - I sold the NOS ERO/Roederstein blue film types on eBay (audiophools love them) along with the generic marked (2SX...) transistors. I probably have every transistor in your set in NOS condition as well, from 2 maintenance kits for JA/QA and MA/MB sets alone.

EDIT: Lemme check my CRT sockets too - have some GE ones. I gotta do the DMV thang tomorrow, and will be home later than usual.

Anything is of course, yers for postage, Eh?

Jon A.
06-30-2017, 12:39 AM
Now we're talkin'! Would a toonie do? Scratch that, found a quarter.

Considering the condition of these knobs it's a wonder the cabinet didn't turn to mush while in storage. It's in fantastic shape and the part I cleaned looks really good. There's a small faded spot, two small chips out of the laminate in a top corner and a tiny bit of peeling at the base in the back. A furniture touch-up marker and a bit of glue will bring it up to snuff.

So 19Q8 is an exact match for a GE chassis number? A Google search turned up nothing.

I don't know what to think of the orange drop in there, it's just a 2-lead job so the safety interlock was probably jumped, but I don't know where to look for it in this case.

The CRT came back fairly well on normal filament voltage alone. I auto-cycled each gun and now it's testing quite strong. Fortunately the deteriorated HV anode cap was screw-set. I got rid of that, cleaned up the crap I could reach and washed the tar off my hands. I'll check behind the yoke soon enough.

Sounds good to me. :thmbsp: Knob detail photos here:

Not anymore, Flickr account closed and replaced.

The fine tuning knobs are identical.

zeno
06-30-2017, 09:11 AM
Scratch " any delta tube" I forgot older ones have seperate
resistors & SG's. The Zenith CC ones are fine, values
are not critical. All I remember had 1K as the value. Fail point
has always been rot & arcing at the focus pin caused by too much
focus ( 22-5001) or very humid enviroment.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Jon A.
06-30-2017, 09:50 AM
Yup, all 1K in the GE other than the focus pin. If I can see the colors properly the focus resistor is 3.9K.

By the way, the tag that's supposed to cover the HOT (it fell off on one side) says it carries 1KV. I wondered how much juice a typical HOT case carries since I accidentally touched the one in my Electrohome. I can easily get more of a jolt from touching everyday objects during cool, dry weather. I'll take that over line voltage any day.

Findm-Keepm
06-30-2017, 12:36 PM
Now we're talkin'! Would a toonie do? Scratch that, found a quarter.

Considering the condition of these knobs it's a wonder the cabinet didn't turn to mush while in storage. It's in fantastic shape and the part I cleaned looks really good. There's a small faded spot, two small chips out of the laminate in a top corner and a tiny bit of peeling at the base in the back. A furniture touch-up marker and a bit of glue will bring it up to snuff.

So 19Q8 is an exact match for a GE chassis number? A Google search turned up nothing.

I don't know what to think of the orange drop in there, it's just a 2-lead job so the safety interlock was probably jumped, but I don't know where to look for it in this case.

The CRT came back fairly well on normal filament voltage alone. I auto-cycled each gun and now it's testing quite strong. Fortunately the deteriorated HV anode cap was screw-set. I got rid of that, cleaned up the crap I could reach and washed the tar off my hands. I'll check behind the yoke soon enough.

Sounds good to me. :thmbsp: Knob detail photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacecommand/albums/72157682561551492

The fine tuning knobs are identical.

VHF/UHF channel change knobs, I've got. I'm all out of Fine Tuning, apparently. For the VHF, a transplant of the legend dial from a short shaft knob to the long shaft knob will have to happen, but two spankin' new knobs are yours. I'll contact you via PM for the postage.

Findm-Keepm
06-30-2017, 01:40 PM
Your chassis seems to be a 19QB. A Portsmouth plant chassis, shipped north to be matched to a Canadian cabinet. The QB chassis is nearly identical to the JA chassis in layout and parts. Sams 1471 covers the QB chassis, and would likely be helpful.

GE made so many sets for export, Ethan Allen, and others that the chassis often blur the lines between them.

I also have your CRT socket - NOS, from a disintegrating GE parts bag. DO all of your leads have female sockets on them where they connect to the chassis? The only markings on this one is APCO EIA 1210, with some patent numbers....

Jon A.
06-30-2017, 02:12 PM
Ahhhh, I didn't look closely enough at the chart at first, it is indeed a 19QB.

That's awesome about the parts, much appreciated. I suppose the fine tuning knobs could easily be electroplated. The channel knobs, well, good luck restoring those. Also, I don't think I'll need to transplant anything; the ends of the shafts are about 1/8" below the trim panel. The socket does use female chassis connectors, those for the focus and filament leads being different. Both filament leads are attached to the same plug and the focus lead terminates in something that looks like an in-line fuse holder. The EIA number is a match and the patent number on the original is 3251016-337612.

I just realized, the knobs that came with it aren't even a matched set. The VHF knob is probably from a smaller set. I noticed the legend dial diameter difference right away, but now I see the VHF knob lacks the raised V-shaped section and is more chunky.

Findm-Keepm
06-30-2017, 05:36 PM
Ahhhh, I didn't look closely enough at the chart at first, it is indeed a 19QB.

That's awesome about the parts, much appreciated. I suppose the fine tuning knobs could easily be electroplated. The channel knobs, well, good luck restoring those. Also, I don't think I'll need to transplant anything; the ends of the shafts are about 1/8" below the trim panel. The socket does use female chassis connectors, those for the focus and filament leads being different. Both filament leads are attached to the same plug and the focus lead terminates in something that looks like an in-line fuse holder. The EIA number is a match and the patent number on the original is 3251016-337612.

I just realized, the knobs that came with it aren't even a matched set. The VHF knob is probably from a smaller set. I noticed the legend dial diameter difference right away, but now I see the VHF knob lacks the raised V-shaped section and is more chunky.

To further muddle the knobs, GE issued silver trim/lettering for better models, and white for basic or plastic cabinet stuff. If they were out, either was substituted for the other. Customers hated this, but we were unable to specify no subs on out of stock stuff.

Vanco, a secondary supplier, had no problem sourcing GE knobs - GE tried to find out where in the supply chain they were getting real GE knobs. Vanco went to the plastics place making the knobs - and ordered in quantity. GE made the plastics place stop selling to aftermarket folks, only to dry up knobs in general. Our knob box was our savior a few times.

Jon A.
06-30-2017, 08:25 PM
Oh yes, I noticed the numbering difference on the NOS knobs. At first I was evaluating the possibility of this being a lighting issue.

I see that GE supplied the cabinet base of a 19V set as well. Why not, it simplified final assembly.

Jon A.
07-08-2017, 06:51 PM
After wiping away a little more dirt I found out the CRT is GE-made as well (EIA 188-23). Seems as if they supplied everything other than the cabinet and yoke, and maybe the blue lateral.

Findm-Keepm
09-01-2017, 09:23 PM
I was gonna do this in a PM, but it's germane to a BUNCH of GE and Bradford sets:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Retailing/80s/ETD-1980-11.pdf

Page 8/9 have a ton of 19QB tips, straight from GE. Other chassis included are YA, YC, JA, QA, QB

Jon A.
09-02-2017, 01:19 AM
Awesome, thanks. It is an oddity compared to others I've seen.

zeno
09-02-2017, 10:18 AM
I was gonna do this in a PM, but it's germane to a BUNCH of GE and Bradford sets:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Retailing/80s/ETD-1980-11.pdf

Page 8/9 have a ton of 19QB tips, straight from GE. Other chassis included are YA, YC, JA, QA, QB

JA, QA & QB are all similar so you can look for tips in all three.
GE used to request dud parts back for testing from time to time.
For your trouble they gave you nice tip books etc. There training manuals were the best of quality & deepest theory wise. AND they fed you
a full diner at the seminars. You were lucky to get water from the
Japs. GE could really get things right when they wanted but
knobs, gears & cabinet parts they never mastered. Seemed to get
the wrong thing half the time.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !