View Full Version : Philco Seventeener II


Crist Rigott
05-10-2017, 04:53 PM
Guys,
I just acquired a Philco Seventeener II TV. It is in very nice shape. No dents and pretty well taken care of.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150239a_zpshmfcrw1d.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150239a_zpshmfcrw1d.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150255a_zpsqarjqaex.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150255a_zpsqarjqaex.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150332a_zps67qa7gu9.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150332a_zps67qa7gu9.jpg.html)

Here is a shot of the insides. It is very clean but a little dusty. Looks like everything is in nice shape. A few tubes have been replaced other than that all the rest look like Philco originals.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150712a_zpsw7kqjvgo.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150712a_zpsw7kqjvgo.jpg.html)

Here's how the CRT checked on my BK 467:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170509_222124a_zps96gkx0sn.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170509_222124a_zps96gkx0sn.jpg.html)

Wahoo! It should give a very nice picture. The life tested very good with the needle going down just a little less than 1 to just over 1.4.

This just might be my next restoration. It'll be a nice change of pace.

Zenith26kc20
05-10-2017, 05:08 PM
That appears to be a very early Seventeener! I remember the ones using a form of Predicta chassis. Very nice set indeed!

bandersen
05-10-2017, 05:33 PM
Philco used those perma-circuit boards seen in Predictas in many model from around 57-61 including this Seventeener.

Electronic M
05-10-2017, 05:37 PM
Neat set. It is the first portable TV I've seen with a 90's McDonald's color scheme.

zenithfan1
05-10-2017, 05:51 PM
Neat set. It is the first portable TV I've seen with a 90's McDonald's color scheme.

Just looking at it makes me wanna eat a Big Mac! :D

marty59
05-10-2017, 10:51 PM
Just like a Predicta but easier to move around!

Boobtubeman
05-11-2017, 12:34 AM
Just looking at it makes me wanna eat a Big Mac! :D

A McSeventeener if ya will...... Hold the pickles... :D

SR

Crist Rigott
05-16-2017, 03:35 PM
While the "paint dries" on my 621TS I thought I'd restore this TV. It'll be a nice change of pace.

Over all it is in nice shape. The chassis is dirty put "clean". No rust. The yoke cover is deteriorated along with the plastic holder for the focus rings. Everything else looks very good.

I replaced the sand resistor with a 50 ohm 50 watt chassis mount resistor for now. I powered it up using my Variac and Iso transformer. No go. I did a little troubleshooting and found that the fusistor was open. I inserted a 5 ohm 15W resistor and powered it up again. I got a raster and a picture. The picture was unstable. I also got some hash noise but no audio.

I'll put together an order and get started with the recapping etc.

Any words of wisdom and helpful hints would be appreciated.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6677a_zps1pkpkjkb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6677a_zps1pkpkjkb.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6717a_zpsesouvbjz.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6717a_zpsesouvbjz.jpg.html)

jr_tech
05-16-2017, 04:33 PM
I'm working on one also... likely had not been turned on since my parents moved out of the farm house in the mid 60s. Fuse resistor was open, so I stuck an 8 ohm resistor in there (was the orig 7.5 or 5.6?).... got a 5 inch high pix, somewhat unstable.

On the bench, I "j hooked" all the caps on the main board, cleaned all the tube pins and got a decent pix about 90% of full height. Watched it for a while, until the heaters went out. Heaters ohmed ok... hmmm there must be a series resistor somewhere.... spotted it and more caps on the back side of the chassis.

How did you get your chassis out? Did you pull with the CRT frame/CRT attached, or leave the CRT in the cabinet?

Mine is the common alligator skin style cabinet... fun set anyway.

jr

DavGoodlin
05-16-2017, 05:07 PM
This was a 1958 model and the original Seventeener probably had a 70 degree CRT, making for a deeper cabinet. I have two of these and a Seventeener III from 1960, with a 110 degree deflection CRT.

I have two of these now: one with the white alligator skin and another that is off-white. Both need some caps and as always, some troubleshooting afterward to fix what originally was wrong.

I found a Kodak yellow model at a local antique store for $25 and in as fine shape as your salmon colored one. I recapped it and it made a nice bright picture but I could not get the horizontal sync stable. I sold it at a swap meet for $40.

Here is one that was a popular model but without the rabbit ears handle https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/clt/6109362732.html

jr_tech
05-16-2017, 05:42 PM
The 17BWP4 CRT used in the Seventeener II is a 110 degree jug... I think Philco shortened the gun (almost 2 inches) to make the 17DAP4 for the later shallower models ( and Predicta?).

jr

Crist Rigott
05-16-2017, 07:31 PM
The fusister is 5.6 ohms. I think I remember seeing where you can use a resistor and a fuse. Can anybody shed some light on this?
Thanks.

Kamakiri
05-16-2017, 07:50 PM
I have some OEM 4.7 ohm fusistors, if that gets you close.

timmy
05-16-2017, 08:13 PM
That set looks like very low hours, nice.

Crist Rigott
05-16-2017, 11:20 PM
I'm looking over the parts and I see it has 2 diodes for rectifiers M1 & M2. Can I use some 1N4007 or 1N5408 diodes instead?

Also M3 is listed as a selenium rectifier and it has 3 legs and is encapsulated. Should I replace that too?

Crist Rigott
05-17-2017, 09:23 AM
How did you get your chassis out? Did you pull with the CRT frame/CRT attached, or leave the CRT in the cabinet?

jr

I pulled the CRT with the chassis as 1 piece out of the cabinet. Then separated it from the chassis.

Electronic M
05-17-2017, 09:44 AM
Power seleniums can be replaced by modern silicone diodes, just check the current rating of the original (usually listed in sam's) against the new one (replace with the same or higher) and make sure the PIV is a good bit higher than what it appears the circuit can produce.

I suspect M3 is the Horiz AFC (I don't have the schematic) those are usually good, but I've encountered a dud or two....The symptom of a bad H AFC diode is soild Vert sync, and horizontal can be made to almost sync, but will at best roll slowly either direction without locking. The AFC diode is three leg because they put 2 diodes in the same case and tied two legs together internally.

If the H AFC diodes are on the board and the board is a royal pain to change parts on (like many claim the predicta boards are) then it may be wise to replace the H AFC diode pack as preventative maintenance.

You can use 1N4007s for H AFC. Some claim you need fast shottkey diodes, but in my experience the 4007s work fine in the sets I've needed to do AFC diode swaps on.

jr_tech
05-17-2017, 06:31 PM
I'm looking over the parts and I see it has 2 diodes for M1 & M2. Can I use some 1N4007 or 1N5408 diodes instead?

I believe that these are "top hat" style germanium diodes mounted on a pair of heat sinks in a clever assembly, pn 34-8047-1. I decided to leave mine alone and address failure if/when it occurs.

Also M3 is listed as a selenium rectifier and it has 3 legs and is encapsulated. Should I replace that too?

This little potted horiz AFC diode assembly has been replaced on my set... horizontal is stable, so I am leaving that alone, as well.

I pulled the CRT with the chassis as 1 piece out of the cabinet. Then t it from the chassis.

Removed chassis and tube together as you suggested, needed to get the angle just right to clear antenna mount (removed speaker first). Replaced under chassis caps, and used a 48 ohm 20 watt WW resistor in the heater string.

Pix looks good, audio is somewhat buzzy depending on screen content... my Zenith DTV converter produces less buzz. Will watch for a couple of hours tonight before putting it back in the cabinet.

Likely I will mount a fuseholder in the area above the rectifier assembly this afternoon, before extended viewing (still have orig electrolytics).

Thanks for your help,
jr

.

Crist Rigott
06-22-2017, 11:47 AM
OK, back on this TV after a trip, company, and honey-dos.

I'm recapping the "backside" of the chassis and there is 1 couplate. In the process of recapping, I puled the couplate and measured the pins. I measured between 2 and 3 and get 1.13M and pins 1 and 2 and get 5798pf. The cap should be 5000pf. Only a difference of @16%. But the resistor should read 1M. A 13% difference. Looks like it is already out of tolerance. I'm assuming 10% like most of the resistors used.

I'm including a picture of the schematis of where it fits into the circuit along with a close-up of the internal schematic of the couplate. My question is what kind of caps are used in these things? I just might try and build a replacement.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6917a_zpsr2lot8rt.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6917a_zpsr2lot8rt.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6918a_zpsmtzlm3k5.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6918a_zpsmtzlm3k5.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6919a_zpson1uumba.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6919a_zpson1uumba.jpg.html)

Jeffhs
06-22-2017, 12:58 PM
I had a Philco "Briefcase 19" portable TV from 1961 back in the '70s. I believe it was a successor to the Seventeener. My set worked quite well, and in fact was a temporary replacement for my Sears Silvertone roundie color set (RCA CTC12 clone, IIRC) when that set developed serious problems (the video output tube socket broke out of the video PC panel with a sickening crunch when I tried to replace the tube). :no:

jr_tech
06-22-2017, 01:22 PM
I'm recapping the "backside" of the chassis and there is 1 couplate. In the process of recapping, I puled the couplate and measured the pins. I measured between 2 and 3 and get 1.13M and pins 1 and 2 and get 5798pf. The cap should be 5000pf. Only a difference of @16%. But the resistor should read 1M. A 13% difference. Looks like it is already out of tolerance. I'm assuming 10% like most of the resistors used.

I'm including a picture of the schematis of where it fits into the circuit along with a close-up of the internal schematic of the couplate. My question is what kind of caps are used in these things? I just might try and build a replacement.


I just left mine alone, as it just couples a pulse for vertical retrace blanking to the CRT, I suspect that that it does not contain close tolerance parts. My blanking is fine. I'm guessing that ceramic caps and 10-20% resistors would be appropriate.

jr

DavGoodlin
06-22-2017, 02:09 PM
+1 - if that copulate were in the vertical or horizontal stages, it would improve sync-etc but as a blanking pulse network, you would see some definite symptoms if it were to drift too far out of tolerance.

bandersen
06-22-2017, 02:17 PM
+2 - Also I've cracked open some Philco couplates and they are ceramic caps. Nothing special. They used them to cut assembly time not because they were precision parts.

kvflyer
06-22-2017, 03:12 PM
+2 - Also I've cracked open some Philco couplates and they are ceramic caps. Nothing special. They used them to cut assembly time not because they were precision parts.
+3. Those values were not that far off from the original. I would concentrate on other issues. Couplates are often one of the last things to go.

Crist Rigott
06-23-2017, 11:28 AM
OK guys, I'll just clean it up and re-install it. Thanks.

Crist Rigott
06-23-2017, 11:40 AM
I'm pretty much done with the backside. I re-stuffed the E-caps, replaced all the resistors, and film capacitors. I cleaned and redressed the HV leads and used some heat shrink on the 1B3GT socket. I replaced the 40 ohm 20 watt sand resistor with a 60 ohm 25 watt resistor because of the higher line voltage.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/100_6946a_zpsax9whmlc.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/100_6946a_zpsax9whmlc.jpg.html)

I then replaced the rectifier diodes with 2 1N5408 3A diodes. I used s 3 prong terminal strip. Worked out great. I also replaced the .1uf bumble bee cap with a .1uf safety cap.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/100_6958a_zpsrjqirofz.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/100_6958a_zpsrjqirofz.jpg.html)

I then pulled the IF board to do the recapping. A lot of the wires were soldered onto the stakes. It did come off fine though. A bit tedious. Once per TV will be enough thank you.

The board had a coating on the foil side. When I removed the resistors, it just ignored the coating. Once the part was removed, I cleaned the area up with my solder wick, then used a Q-tip and acetone to clean away any "varnish". Once the parts were soldered back in and the flux cleaned off I did a real good inspection and the used some clear corona dope to recoat the board. The last picture was before the re-coating.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/100_6944a_zpsj33voub2.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/100_6944a_zpsj33voub2.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/100_6942a_zps1u7albvi.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/100_6942a_zps1u7albvi.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
06-23-2017, 11:47 AM
BTW, I'm getting ready to do the main board. I have the film caps, resistors, and the 2 micas will be replaced. Is there anything else that I need to be on the lookout for? These boards look very similar to the Predicta boards. I'm concerned about the networks. Should I just shot gun them and be done with them? Which ones are usually bad if any? As with most, I only want to pull this board once.

BTW, I'm leaving all the ceramic discs alone. Right?

Crist Rigott
06-24-2017, 12:57 AM
While recapping the main board I ran across this:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6961a_zps8odint9x.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6961a_zps8odint9x.jpg.html)

This is K2 and it has a 500pf cap added to pins 5 & 6. Here is the schematic of K2 and I penciled in the added cap.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6970a_zpsxtjezghl.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6970a_zpsxtjezghl.jpg.html)

Here is the part of the schematic that K2 is used in. It is in the audio section just after the volume pot. Again I penciled in the added cap.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6972a_zpsp7j7pway.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6972a_zpsp7j7pway.jpg.html)

Any idea why this was done?

If you look closely you'll see K2 is missing some coating on the face and on the top in several areas. I'm going to build a new one. Any idea what I should use for caps?

Thanks.

dieseljeep
06-24-2017, 11:33 AM
Neat set. It is the first portable TV I've seen with a 90's McDonald's color scheme.

That's a popular color from the mid-50's, Coral!
I have a Zenith 4 tube portable radio with the color case. I saw a set just like mine go on the the E-place for $100+. That's Quite a while ago. :thmbsp:

jr_tech
06-24-2017, 11:33 AM
Looks like an attempt to "improve" the audio, by increasing the low frequency response. Mine did not have the added cap... perhaps it was added later by a serviceman. Nothing critical there, I would just use ceramic caps to replicate the circuit.

jr

old_coot88
06-24-2017, 11:34 AM
Any idea why this was done?
The only effect of adding that cap would be a slight increase in bass response.

jr_tech
06-24-2017, 01:22 PM
Looks like an attempt to "improve" the audio, by increasing the low frequency response. Mine did not have the added cap... perhaps it was added later by a serviceman. Nothing critical there, I would just use ceramic caps to replicate the circuit.

jr

On the other hand, the 1 meg resistor and the 820 k resistor on the board should 5% tolerances or better, because they set the grid bias on the audio output tube.

jr

Crist Rigott
06-24-2017, 03:19 PM
OK, I have decided that I probably will make all new couplates or networks. Not sure of the right name.

My biggest question is what voltage should the ceramic caps be. I've checked with Mouser and it looks like some caps I can only get like 100 volts while most I can get 630 volt or more.

I believe that these are very similar to what the Predicta uses.

Here is a link to a 24x36 schematic which shows all the couplates.

Thank you.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2ww1hzzvam2sz6/8H25%2CU%2C8L35%2CU%20Schematic%2024x36.pdf?dl=0

jr_tech
06-24-2017, 06:28 PM
Check out this predicta thread, starting about here:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=255328&page=3

jr

Notimetolooz
06-24-2017, 07:23 PM
OK, I have decided that I probably will make all new couplates or networks. Not sure of the right name.

My biggest question is what voltage should the ceramic caps be. I've checked with Mouser and it looks like some caps I can only get like 100 volts while most I can get 630 volt or more.



That's a good question. The 100V would probably be smaller and so easier to fit, but some places would definitely require something higher. The grid of the horizontal output is one place I'd use a higher voltage rating because of the large AC signal.

Crist Rigott
06-24-2017, 11:53 PM
OK guys I'm at wits end. I'm trying to pick out the caps that I need for the couplets. I know for K5 the 1500pf cap needs to be 1KV for sure. But the rest of the caps I'm trying to pick out I can get some at 630v and some only at 100 volts. Maybe I'm over thinking this but this is gotten to be ridiculous for me. I've spent the better part of today going through lists of caps that Mouser has. I'm drowning in datasheets. This shouldn't be this difficult.

Can somebody let me know what they used when they did their couplets? It would be appreciated.

jr_tech
06-25-2017, 12:14 AM
What value caps can you only get in 100 volt rating? Perhaps a slightly different value cap with a higher voltage rating can be substituted, or perhaps we can figure out if a higher voltage rating is actually need where the caps are used.

jr

Notimetolooz
06-25-2017, 12:03 PM
OK guys I'm at wits end. I'm trying to pick out the caps that I need for the couplets. I know for K5 the 1500pf cap needs to be 1KV for sure. But the rest of the caps I'm trying to pick out I can get some at 630v and some only at 100 volts. Maybe I'm over thinking this but this is gotten to be ridiculous for me. I've spent the better part of today going through lists of caps that Mouse has. I'm drowning in datasheets. This shouldn't be this difficult.

Can somebody let me know what they used when they did their couplets? It would be appreciated.
Is the difficulty because you are trying to stick to ceramic? I think that if you have to that film would be OK. Also the values used in the networks seem to be non-standard values in many places, I wouldn't be too concerned about an exact match.

jr_tech
06-25-2017, 01:15 PM
Perhaps a kit of 2kv caps like this offering from 'zon will get you close enough. I find that a little sorting with a decent meter will often find "in between" values.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DDJQAAO?psc=1

How would one substitute the distributed cap in k-4... multiple caps and resistors? Perhaps 3 27k or 33k in series with 4 1000 uuf caps to ground.
:scratch2:

not affiliated,
jr

Crist Rigott
06-25-2017, 02:54 PM
Guys,
I appreciate your comments. After a good night's rest and a clear head I have selected all 630V TDK caps with 2 exceptions. 1 is the 1KV 1500pf cap used in K5 the Vertical Feedback couplet, and the 82pf cap used in K6 the Horizontal AFC couplet. The 82pf cap that I could find was a TDK 100V or a Kemet at 200V. I know I could always use a mica cap. BTW, all the caps are ceramic MLCC's and COG/NPO type.

Here's a link of the typical TDK cap that I'll be using:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tdk-corporation/FG26C0G2J152JNT06/445-173410-1-ND/5812015

Crist Rigott
06-25-2017, 03:07 PM
This leads me to another question. I couldn't get a 200pf cap used in K6 the H. AFC couplet. So I'm guessing that a 220pf would work?

Also the 5000pf caps used in K1 Blanking, K6 Vertical Integrator, and K8 the CRT Isolation couplets will be replaced with 4700pf caps.

Also the 8000pf caps used in K2 Audio, and K3 Sync Coupling couplets will be replaced with a 8200pf cap.

Anybody see any problems with those subs?

Thanks.

jr_tech
06-25-2017, 06:45 PM
If you mean 220pf as a substitute for the 200 in the first sentence, then yes, all of the substitutions should be fine (all within 10% of the desired value).... I suspect the original parts are 20% anyway.
Are you going to be using the set with a VCR? Most older sets do not do well with a signal from a VCR because the horizontal AFC is too slow (causes flagging of the top of the picture) reducing the 200pf to 150 or so, possibly could help if this is a problem.

jr

Crist Rigott
06-25-2017, 07:06 PM
If you mean 220pf as a substitute for the 200 in the first sentence, then yes, all of the substitutions should be fine (all within 10% of the desired value).... I suspect the original parts are 20% anyway.
Are you going to be using the set with a VCR? Most older sets do not do well with a signal from a VCR because the horizontal AFC is too slow (causes flagging of the top of the picture) reducing the 200pf to 150 or so, possibly could help if this is a problem.

jr

Yes, I corrected my post. Typically I don't use a VCR. Maybe I should use a 180pf instead of a 220pf just in case?

jr_tech
06-25-2017, 08:26 PM
I just looked at some old notes and now think that c 39 is the likely candidate to change to decrease the horiz AFC time constant. :scratch2:

jr

Crist Rigott
06-25-2017, 11:40 PM
I just looked at some old notes and now think that c 39 is the likely candidate to change to decrease the horiz AFC time constant. :scratch2:

jr

OK. I'll go with the 220pf cap.

Another question. Do you think that for the 1500pf 1KV NPO cap used in K5 the Vertical Feedback couplet I can use a SMD? The package is 1812 and I can solder leads on it or just solder it to my pcb boards that I'm designing?

jr_tech
06-26-2017, 11:27 AM
Don't know... never played with SMD parts.

jr

bandersen
06-26-2017, 12:37 PM
I don't see any reason why not other than the difficulty in soldering. So long at it has the proper dielectric characteristic and voltage rating, the packaging doesn't matter.

Electronic M
06-26-2017, 01:45 PM
An acquaintance from college learned a valuable lesson doing a SMD based senior design project: Order at least 3 boards and at least 3X any SMD parts needed, since it probably won't come together right the first time and you'll end up destroying parts in the process of getting it right.

wa2ise
06-26-2017, 02:21 PM
To get some experience with SMDs, get a hold of a junk board out of a computer, router or BPC TV set. You can unsolder SMDs by using a pair of soldering irons, one at each end of a cap or resistor. Be aware that newer stuff used unleaded solder, which melts at a higher temperature. Sometimes adding some leaded solder helps to get the solder holding the SMD to melt. I've had success with larger SMD resistors (ones about 1/10 inch long)

Notimetolooz
06-26-2017, 07:03 PM
I find the concern about SMD parts a little surprising. I've worked professionally with SMD parts for over a decade. Its really not much of a problem unless you are dealing with large IC or very small parts. I regularly worked with resistor and capacitors as small as 0402 size. For something like that you do need a stereo microscope, sharp tweezers and small iron tips. Just melt some solder on one pad, position part with tweezers and remelt the solder blob. The first connection will hold the part while you do the other connections. The small two terminal parts you can actually remove by melting the solder on both pads at the same time by laying the iron against both pads and then pushing the part off the pads. Clean up one pad and put down the replacement. Larger parts will require solder-wicking each connection before removing part.

Crist Rigott
06-27-2017, 03:16 PM
I'll have no problem working with the SMD's.

The boards are almost fully designed. Some are just a little taller which won't be a problem. I designed them using 1W resistors, hence the reason they are a little taller.

Parts are on order for them.

I still don't know if 200V will be enough for the 82pf cap in K6. It is connected to the plate (pin 3) of V4, the Sync Separator tube. The schematic shows 70V on pin 3. But then there's a resistor R39 at 150K connected to the 265V supply. The 82pf cap is on the resistor side and plate of V4 of that 265V. I'm not smart enough to be able to figure out what the voltage should be except that it should be at least 70V.

Crist Rigott
06-27-2017, 03:22 PM
Another question. The fusistor is 5.6 ohms. I'm going to replace it with a resistor and a separate fuse. The parts list doesn't show what the wattage rating is. I did an Ohm's Law calculation based on 120W and came up with a 5.6 ohm 5.6W resistor. I'm going with a 10W wirewound enamel resistor. Do my calcs seem reasonable and a 10W seem right? I'll go with probably a 2 1/2 amp fuse.

bandersen
06-27-2017, 03:37 PM
Keep in mind the fusistor is only on the B+, not the tube filament string. I'd guestimate something around 200-300 mA of current.

Also the reason for the resistor is that the old rectifiers can't take the surge current. Modern are more robust especially if you go with 1N5408s. The resistor value isn't critical.

I also suggest adding another fuse to protect the whole set.

Crist Rigott
06-27-2017, 03:50 PM
Keep in mind the fusistor is only on the B+, not the tube filament string. I'd guestimate something around 200-300 mA of current.

Also the reason for the resistor is that the old rectifiers can't take the surge current. Modern are more robust especially if you go with 1N5408s. The resistor value isn't critical.

I also suggest adding another fuse to protect the whole set.

Bob,
Thanks for the quick reply. The TV is rated at 150W or 1.3A. Less the 600ma filament string gives me .7A through the Fusistor. If I'm reading your reply correct, I really don't need a Fusistor, just a fuse upstream of the filament tap off....right? I could easily relocate the filament tap off to the downstream side of a fuse.

jr_tech
06-27-2017, 04:02 PM
I used an 8ohm 5 Watt resistor, to give a bit of extra surge protection with today's higher line voltages. I also added a fuse IIRC, 2 amp slow blow.

200 volt rating for the 82 uuf cap should be fine, as the 150 k resistor and the 2 33 k resistors in series form a voltage divider network. The total resistance of the divider is 216 k (150+33+33).... 66k out of 216 k is about 30% .... 30% of 265 volts is about 80 volts. When the tube warms up and starts drawing current, the voltage at that point drops about 10 volts more to 70 volts.

jr

bandersen
06-27-2017, 04:04 PM
Hmm, 0.7A seems high, but I can't fault your math. I'd still use either a resistor or a thermistor. It'll give the set a soft start and help preserve those old parts.

DavGoodlin
06-28-2017, 12:33 PM
Hmm, 0.7A seems high, but I can't fault your math. I'd still use either a resistor or a thermistor. It'll give the set a soft start and help preserve those old parts.

Motorola (CDTS-581) and RCA (CTC11) used inrush current limiters in some early-1960's TVs to lessen inrush on tube heaters in particular - I use the CL-90 made by GE. It is 120 ohms cold and rated for 2 amps. Works for most all monochrome TVs and tube radios. I like to think a transformer can be made to live longer.

The CL-90 works for almost everything but color TV, then a CL-70 has lower cold resistance (47 ohm) but rated at 4 amps, which most older sets draw up to.

Notimetolooz
06-28-2017, 06:18 PM
200 volt rating for the 82 uuf cap should be fine, as the 150 k resistor and the 2 33 k resistors in series form a voltage divider network. The total resistance of the divider is 216 k (150+33+33).... 66k out of 216 k is about 30% .... 30% of 265 volts is about 80 volts. When the tube warms up and starts drawing current, the voltage at that point drops about 10 volts more to 70 volts.

jr

Jr is right about the voltage across the 82 pf increasing every time the set starts up from cold because the tube isn't drawing current. This does point out however that when something is designed that it is difficult to cover all the bases. If the 33K resistors in K4 increase a lot in value or open up then the voltage will be higher. This could also happen if in troubleshooting someone disconnects K4. Its hard to foresee every possibility.

Crist Rigott
06-28-2017, 06:37 PM
Jr is right about the voltage across the 82 pf increasing every time the set starts up from cold because the tube isn't drawing current. This does point out however that when something is designed that it is difficult to cover all the bases. If the 33K resistors in K4 increase a lot in value or open up then the voltage will be higher. This could also happen if in troubleshooting someone disconnects K4. Its hard to foresee every possibility.

I have a 200v cap coming. On the other hand, I can always order a 82pf 1KV SMD that will fit the through hole pads well enough. Maybe I should hust go with one of those?

Crist Rigott
06-30-2017, 10:28 PM
I'm done with the design of the Couplets. If you get a chance would you mind going over them to see if I have them correct?

Thanks.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K1%20Combo_zps37ojvoje.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K1%20Combo_zps37ojvoje.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K2%20Combo_zpsiq2wqbjg.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K2%20Combo_zpsiq2wqbjg.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K3%20Combo_zpsjhnj5max.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K3%20Combo_zpsjhnj5max.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K4%20Combo_zps6c0ik1uk.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K4%20Combo_zps6c0ik1uk.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K5%20Combo_zpsoyxboj1k.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K5%20Combo_zpsoyxboj1k.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K6%20Combo_zpswfxyrmug.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K6%20Combo_zpswfxyrmug.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K7%20Combo_zps3qwile4g.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K7%20Combo_zps3qwile4g.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K8%20Combo_zpsa5k7aptb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/K8%20Combo_zpsa5k7aptb.jpg.html)

nasadowsk
07-01-2017, 09:23 AM
I think SMDs would lead to a smaller package, and then you could epoxy dip it for an authentic look. And better reliability.

My only question is, can they take any voltage spikes on them? This might be an issue. (Don't forget startup, before the tubes are conducting...)

What are you using for the PCB design, btw?

If there was enough demand, you could get them made by a PCB place and stuffed and all. With the plethora of places overseas, this is surprisingly cheap now...

Notimetolooz
07-01-2017, 03:05 PM
On K7 the junction of the 560 pf and 3300 pf needs to connect to pin 2.
I wish the schematics were drawn easier to follow, more nearly like your layout.:)

jr_tech
07-01-2017, 06:31 PM
On K7 the junction of the 560 pf and 3300 pf needs to connect to pin 2.
I wish the schematics were drawn easier to follow, more nearly like your layout.:)

Good catch! I missed that one on my first look. Like the way the distributec R/c was done in k4.

jr

Crist Rigott
07-01-2017, 08:14 PM
On K7 the junction of the 560 pf and 3300 pf needs to connect to pin 2.
I wish the schematics were drawn easier to follow, more nearly like your layout.:)

Wow, I missed that there was a connection there! Thanks.

Crist Rigott
07-02-2017, 10:52 PM
I made the PCB's today. Basically I use the Press-N-Peel method. Or another name is Toner Transfer. I run the sheet through my laser printer set on 1200dpi and the iron on the pattern on a clean, really clean copper side of the board. Peel off the sheet, then etch, drill, and trim to size.

Here are the boards with the toner transferred to the copper.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6976a_zpsu1olz2d6.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6976a_zpsu1olz2d6.jpg.html)

Here they are all etched.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6978a_zpsjf2up9ws.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6978a_zpsjf2up9ws.jpg.html)

All cleaned and ready to drill and trim.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6980a_zpstxgfexhs.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6980a_zpstxgfexhs.jpg.html)

And all drilled and trimmed. I know I missed a few holes. They match the main board now. I also made K8 round like the original.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6981a_zpskdx0ieml.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6981a_zpskdx0ieml.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
07-03-2017, 02:30 AM
Here they are. Ready to encapsulate. Can you find the 82pf 200V cap?

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6988a_zpslsyogbck.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6988a_zpslsyogbck.jpg.html)

Look closely for the SMD 1500pf 1Kv cap.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6989a_zpsnbli9htp.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6989a_zpsnbli9htp.jpg.html)

Notimetolooz
07-03-2017, 12:47 PM
Nice work!

Crist Rigott
07-03-2017, 02:54 PM
Thanks Tim.

irext
07-03-2017, 08:44 PM
Very neat. Would you bother to encapsulate them? They look very nice as is. Other than authenticity I can't see a reason to. In the (admittedly highly unlikely) event of a component failure you can replace a component if left unencapsulated.

jr_tech
07-04-2017, 12:24 PM
Very nice!
Out of curiosity, where is K8 located in the set? I don't remember seeing it when I did mine a few weeks ago. :scratch2:

jr

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 01:51 PM
Very neat. Would you bother to encapsulate them? They look very nice as is. Other than authenticity I can't see a reason to. In the (admittedly highly unlikely) event of a component failure you can replace a component if left unencapsulated.

Yeah, I thought of leaving them as they are. But then encapsulated them.

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 01:53 PM
Very nice!
Out of curiosity, where is K8 located in the set? I don't remember seeing it when I did mine a few weeks ago. :scratch2:

jr

Thanks. K8 is located on the top of the main chassis. It goes between the main and CRT chassis. Looks a lot like a ceramic disc capacitor.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6673a_zpsklgvsxqs.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6673a_zpsklgvsxqs.jpg.html)

jr_tech
07-04-2017, 02:07 PM
Slaps forehead!
I remember unsoldering a "ceramic cap" when I pulled the chassis... since I generally leave ceramic caps alone, I paid no attention to it.:o

jr

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 02:37 PM
Slaps forehead!
I remember unsoldering a "ceramic cap" when I pulled the chassis... since I generally leave ceramic caps alone, I paid no attention to it.:o

jr

I thought that might have been the case.

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 03:15 PM
Ready to solder in!

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6993a_zpshwmrhee9.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6993a_zpshwmrhee9.jpg.html)

The paint I used.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6995a_zpsfgjrcciq.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6995a_zpsfgjrcciq.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 03:58 PM
All installed.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6996a_zpsrjiijz9w.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6996a_zpsrjiijz9w.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 04:01 PM
One last question. The audio transformer mounted on the main board. Do I need to be worried about Silver Mica Disease? Do the caps need replaced?

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 04:02 PM
Anybody know how to get the cover off of the audio transformer?

Crist Rigott
07-04-2017, 06:58 PM
I removed the can by flattening the dimples with a smooth jawed pliers. I then pinched the can so I could withdraw the coil assembly. I wanted to inspect for any silver mica disease. None here.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6997a_zpsobfriykp.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6997a_zpsobfriykp.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6999a_zpsx9kzevgc.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6999a_zpsx9kzevgc.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7000a_zpsylzwr6vs.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7000a_zpsylzwr6vs.jpg.html)

irext
07-04-2017, 08:19 PM
The idea of couplets always intrigues me. When I used to repair colour TV's in customers homes back in the 70's there was a Thorn model 4KA set which used a similar component called a Thick Film Unit which was essentially a couplet. It used maybe half a dozen of them and they were notoriously unreliable. You'd replace one only to have it fail a week later. Made techs look like fools unfairly. Yours will last forever I'm sure.

Crist Rigott
07-05-2017, 09:32 AM
The idea of couplets always intrigues me. When I used to repair colour TV's in customers homes back in the 70's there was a Thorn model 4KA set which used a similar component called a Thick Film Unit which was essentially a couplet. It used maybe half a dozen of them and they were notoriously unreliable. You'd replace one only to have it fail a week later. Made techs look like fools unfairly. Yours will last forever I'm sure.

Thanks for the comments. I'm sure mine will last a long time too.

DavGoodlin
07-05-2017, 03:39 PM
Great pictures of that transformer base! I repaired an identical one in a '62 Philco FM chassis. The rivet gets drilled out very carefully, then the caps can be removed. I put new caps under the PC board, not in the can.

I suggest disconnecting coils and measuring the pf value before removing it. I got lucky because an ex-Philco VK'er provided me with the values, which are not on the Sams or the Philco schematic.

Crist Rigott
07-05-2017, 06:36 PM
Great pictures of that transformer base! I repaired an identical one in a '62 Philco FM chassis. The rivet gets drilled out very carefully, then the caps can be removed. I put new caps under the PC board, not in the can.

I suggest disconnecting coils and measuring the pf value before removing it. I got lucky because an ex-Philco VK'er provided me with the values, which are not on the Sams or the Philco schematic.

Dave,
Are you saying that I should replace the caps? They looked good to me.

Crist Rigott
07-05-2017, 08:25 PM
I used my 8YP4 test CRT and powered it up. After carefully checking B+ and filament string voltages, I powered it up to full voltage. I noticed that when the tubes heated up, the B+ would drop from around 270V to 140V. After some troubleshooting I found that L17 was open and not allowing B+ to get to pin 5 of V11 a 12AX4GTA Damper tube. I pulled the coil and sure enough one of the fine wires were broke off the main lead. An easy fix. Once done, B+ came up and stayed at 271V. Sams list it at 265V.

Here is what I was greeted to:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7003a_zpsbe6wonau.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7003a_zpsbe6wonau.jpg.html)

I know the picture is bad, but I also have some tubes that tested bad that I haven't replaced yet till the weekend.

All the controls did something so that's good. The filament string dropping resistor R59 was a 41 ohm 20W is now a 60 ohm 25W resistor that runs very hot. My spit sizzled when applied with a craft stick. Do they always run that hot? Do I need to go with a larger wattage? I went to 60 ohms because my line voltage is 122vac.

Another thing I need some help with. I have no audio. The volume pot does increase and decrease the "hash" so I know downstream of the volume pot is working. I did some troubleshooting and found L14 the 1st IF coil is open.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6948a_zpszvjpisaq.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6948a_zpszvjpisaq.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7006a_zpsmbtp1wl6.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7006a_zpsmbtp1wl6.jpg.html)

It's a simple coil and I have to pull the main board to either fix it (fingers crossed) or replace it. the Philco part number is 32-4644-12 with no other manufacturer listed as a substitute.

I did try jumpering across the 2 terminals to short it out to see if that was the problem of no audio. Jumpering didn't help. I even heated up both terminals and re-flowed the solder, still no joy. I hoping that when I get some of the tubes replaced the picture and audio will be improved.

As a long shot, does anybody have one of those coils?

Crist Rigott
07-05-2017, 08:48 PM
OK, it helps to have a good connection at the ant terminals!

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7008a_zpsbpwsqzbj.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7008a_zpsbpwsqzbj.jpg.html)

jr_tech
07-06-2017, 12:06 AM
The filament string dropping resistor R59 was a 41 ohm 20W is now a 60 ohm 25W resistor that runs very hot. My spit sizzled when applied with a craft stick. Do they always run that hot? Do I need to go with a larger wattage? I went to 60 ohms because my line voltage is 122vac.


Looking good!
Perhaps use a diode dropper for the heaters? 122v times 0.707 equals 86.25 volts... close enough to 88?

jr

Crist Rigott
07-06-2017, 12:08 AM
Looking good!
Perhaps use a diode dropper for the heaters?

jr

Could you explain what that is? I'm not familiar with those.

jr_tech
07-06-2017, 12:28 AM
Simply replace the heater drop resistor with a diode... it will clip off half of the 122v sine wave. The resulting true rms voltage of the clipped waveform will be 0.707 times the input voltage. 1N4007 will work fine in this application.

jr

Crist Rigott
07-06-2017, 01:07 AM
That simple? Lets see. My input voltage will be 122v times .707 equals 86.254 volts. The heater string is looking for 88 vac. So a single resistor will replace that big honking heater? I like it!

Thanks.

Crist Rigott
07-07-2017, 12:51 AM
OK, tonight I pulled the main board and removed L14. Sure enough I found a wire broken. It came from the top of the coil down the side and to the terminal lug. It was broken in the middle. I unwound 1 coil and soldered it to the terminal. I then coated the coil with super Corona dope to secure the windings. Then I re-wrapped the coil with some yellow tape.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7013a_zpsswybg7mx.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7013a_zpsswybg7mx.jpg.html)

While I had the main board out, I checked all the other coils and they were good. The yellow tape had fallen off the other 2 so they got the dope and tape treatment.

I then pulled L15 again because I couldn't adjust the slugs. I think they were glued in place. I used the heat gun and applied just enough heat to loosen the slugs. After it cooled off the slugs could still be adjusted. I reinstalled it and the main board.

I also removed the filament dropping resistor and installed a 1N5408 diode in its place.

I reassembled it and turned it on. I got a picture but still no audio.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7017a_zpsrsvico1f.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7017a_zpsrsvico1f.jpg.html)

I then just started to twiddle the slugs on some of the audio coils. Viola! Real good clear audio. The picture and audio on this set is amazing. It's the best TV I've had so far!

jr_tech
07-07-2017, 01:33 PM
Looking good!

How is the horizontal linearity on yours? Mine is a bit stretched on the left side... but I remember from childhood that the test patterns always looked a bit lopsided. My father took it in for repair once, but it was never quite right.

jr

Crist Rigott
07-09-2017, 10:45 PM
Actually the picture is pretty good. I haven't hooked up a test pattern yet. I'm watching Kolchak.

I've been working on the cabinet this weekend. Pictures to follow tomorrow.

Here are a couple. The first one is of the HV cage. I coated the fly back with several heavy coats of Super Corona dope to seal the cracks and to keep the wax from breaking off.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7042a_zpshdecsge1.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7042a_zpshdecsge1.jpg.html)

Here's a picture of the 2A Slo-Blo fuse I added.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7044a_zps2ct8sxuu.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7044a_zps2ct8sxuu.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
07-12-2017, 06:02 PM
The yoke cover is in sad shape. The back face is completely crumbled. The centering ring and holder is separated.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7047a_zpsdvw3xaan.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7047a_zpsdvw3xaan.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7050a_zpsdm42uv8f.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7050a_zpsdm42uv8f.jpg.html)

My buddy thinks he might have a good one for me but it won't be till the weekend for him to see. So I decided to make one. I was going to use the plastic approach like Bob Andersen did but couldn't find the right plastic. So I made one with the materials I had at hand. I had some 1/16 thick phenolic, some 1/64 plywood, some 1/32 plywood, and some PVC sprinkler pipe that I use when re-stuffing E-caps.

I first drew it out using my CAD program. Then printed out the parts and tacked them onto the phenolic. I cut them out and filed and sanded them to shape. Once the rings were made I decided that 2 layers of 1/64 plywood would work as the "rims" with the butt joints 180 degrees apart.

For the "clamping" part I used some PVC sprinkler pipe but the O.D. was just a little too big and it has a wall thickness of 1/16 inch. I thought that that might be too thick and it needed to be 1/32 wall thickness. I rotated a 1 inch long piece up against my disc sander and sanded down the pipe to 1/32 wall. It is easier than you think. Just have to keep checking your progress.

I then used some super glue to glue on the large rim, then the other rim on top of the first. I soaked the super glue down the joint between the two pieces. I then sanded it down to the correct height and drew a 1/8 line along the edge for the tabs. The tabs are 3/8 wide 90 degrees apart. I used my Dremel with a 1/2 sanding drum to sand away that 1/8 inch between the tabs. A small hand file was used to get the corners of the tabs. I then used some 15 minute epoxy to form a fillet along the inside edge for strength.

I did the same for the centering ring holder portion.

I drilled 1/8 holes in the sprinkler pipe every 3/8 inch to from the fingers. I then used a #11 blade in my hobby knife to cut the slots. This was then epoxied in place.

The wooden parts were given a soaking of super glue to seal them, a light sanding and then some primer. Again some light sanding and some gloss black will complete the assembly. The black is drying as I type.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7056a_zps7sfwdgql.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7056a_zps7sfwdgql.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7058a_zpsnyavwi4b.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7058a_zpsnyavwi4b.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7059a_zpsbhltyae7.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7059a_zpsbhltyae7.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7060a_zpsaawvdqki.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7060a_zpsaawvdqki.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7062a_zpsvzbmckv4.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7062a_zpsvzbmckv4.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7063a_zpsh2hiq3ej.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7063a_zpsh2hiq3ej.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7065a_zpsmm4aeffo.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7065a_zpsmm4aeffo.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7067a_zpsri7dco1j.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7067a_zpsri7dco1j.jpg.html)

Notimetolooz
07-12-2017, 08:33 PM
Impressive work, Crist!

Crist Rigott
07-12-2017, 09:22 PM
Impressive work, Crist!

Thanks Tim.

Bill Cahill
07-12-2017, 09:24 PM
Very nice work. I'm just worried about that flyback. What are the three wires going to the second anode?

Crist Rigott
07-12-2017, 09:29 PM
Very nice work. I'm just worried about that flyback. What are the three wires going to the second anode?

Thanks Bill.
I'm not sure what 3 wires you are talking about. There's a red one, and black one which goes to the yoke, and I think there's a white one and I'm not sure where it goes. I have the cover on the HV cage.

Bill Cahill
07-12-2017, 09:33 PM
Where does the black wire come from? If it's the yoke, very likely it goes to one of the taps on the flyback.

Crist Rigott
07-12-2017, 10:28 PM
Where does the black wire come from? If it's the yoke, very likely it goes to one of the taps on the flyback.

Right, it goes to one of the taps.

DavGoodlin
07-13-2017, 01:32 PM
That fly looks great! This was a common Philco issue and one of my sets like this has its fly covered in clear silicone.

Also, the yoke cover reconstruction may be the first one done on this forum.I was considering trying to "print" using a 3D printer but not sure the polymer would stand the heat in this application. An .stl file also needed to be created, which stopped the project.

Tim
07-13-2017, 09:10 PM
Great work Crist.

I have 3D printed a simpler yoke cover to replace a disintegrating one in a Zenith and I have had no problem with the heat from the CRT.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=189893&d=1454899636

Crist Rigott
07-13-2017, 09:50 PM
Great work Crist.

I have 3D printed a simpler yoke cover to replace a disintegrating one in a Zenith and I have had no problem with the heat from the CRT.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=189893&d=1454899636

Thanks. Nice.

Crist Rigott
07-13-2017, 09:55 PM
The paint is dry and then I installed the centering ring assembly. There are 2 small tabs on the brass parts that fit into the square cutouts. The cutouts are positioned so that the tabs are inserted into those slots they maintain some pressure on the centering rings. While this worked I installed an "O" ring to apply some more pressure. Worked well.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7069a_zpsmsmv3tiy.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7069a_zpsmsmv3tiy.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7070a_zpsu6p5ooas.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7070a_zpsu6p5ooas.jpg.html)

I then installed the chassis into the cabinet and installed the front panel. Next up is to do an alignment.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7073a_zps3ra7xnxv.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7073a_zps3ra7xnxv.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7077a_zpslmhi76kl.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7077a_zpslmhi76kl.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
07-13-2017, 09:57 PM
BTW, can anybody indentify the equipment in the shop as shown in the last picture of ALF?

wa2ise
07-13-2017, 11:21 PM
I'm not sure what 3 wires you are talking about. ...

I think he's talking about the red wires from what looks like the 1B3 rectifier tube socket (the brown plastic cylinder). One wire to the very high voltage GRT connection, and the other two a winding around the flyback core.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7067a_zpsri7dco1j.jpg

Crist Rigott
07-13-2017, 11:55 PM
I think he's talking about the red wires from what looks like the 1B3 rectifier tube socket (the brown plastic cylinder). One wire to the very high voltage GRT connection, and the other two a winding around the flyback core.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7067a_zpsri7dco1j.jpg

OK. You are correct about the 3 red wires.

DavGoodlin
07-14-2017, 11:35 AM
BTW, can anybody indentify the equipment in the shop as shown in the last picture of ALF?

I see an EICO Am signal generator behind Alf's right ear. The scope next is definitely not a common EICO 460, but the knobs look EICO-ish. Good stuff, usually in kit form. I assembled 4-5 of their kits, notably a 950B capacitor bridge checker, in continuous use since 1976.

jr_tech
07-14-2017, 12:07 PM
I see an EICO Am signal generator behind Alf's right ear. The scope next is definitely not a common EICO 460, but the knobs look EICO-ish. Good stuff, usually in kit form. I assembled 4-5 of their kits, notably a 950B capacitor bridge checker, in continuous use since 1976.

I'm thinking Eico 465 for the scope, with An Eico signal tracer (147) to its left, and
a shortwave or c b radio to the right of Alfs head. The signal generator looks like an Eico 324.

jr

Crist Rigott
07-15-2017, 03:31 PM
OK, I've got the IF strip aligned. Now onto the 4.5MC trap adjustment. For this adjustment, they require a test "set up" or test detector. It requires a 4.5MC adjustable trap and some caps, resistor, and diode. Here are the pictures of the procedure and the test detector from Sams. Same thing in Riders.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7078a_zpsxrmod6gm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7078a_zpsxrmod6gm.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7079a_zpshdgess0i.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7079a_zpshdgess0i.jpg.html)

Anybody have any tips on how to do this without the test detector? I don't have a 4.5MC adjustable coil. Unless I can pull one from a spare chassis?

Crist Rigott
07-15-2017, 07:18 PM
I found a 4.5MC trap on an old Motorola TS-89 chassis and it worked out well.

Bill Cahill
07-15-2017, 10:03 PM
Looks like you're coming along fine.

Crist Rigott
07-15-2017, 10:47 PM
Thanks Bill.

I finished with the 4.5MC and audio alignment.
I installed the back and all that's left is to do is refurb the top knobs.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7084a_zpsrttbs1ok.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7084a_zpsrttbs1ok.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7087a_zpsnknej8ji.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7087a_zpsnknej8ji.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7085a_zpsgysrw3x8.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7085a_zpsgysrw3x8.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7086a_zpswa1446r7.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7086a_zpswa1446r7.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7088a_zpsmqzpqmrb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7088a_zpsmqzpqmrb.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7089a_zpsxo1rrakg.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7089a_zpsxo1rrakg.jpg.html)

jr_tech
07-15-2017, 11:39 PM
BEAUTIFUL! How did you de-yellow the back so well?

jr

Crist Rigott
07-15-2017, 11:42 PM
BEAUTIFUL! How did you de-yellow the back so well?

jr

I painted it.

irext
07-18-2017, 03:09 AM
It's better than new!! Very nice.

Crist Rigott
07-20-2017, 12:38 PM
Well, it is finished. Well almost. My buddy is looking for an antenna that goes into the handle. One of them has been pulled out. The other thing is I want to put some felt under the knobs on the top of the TV. Some before and after pictures.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150239a_zpshmfcrw1d.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150239a_zpshmfcrw1d.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7097a_zpscbvj94fo.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7097a_zpscbvj94fo.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150255a_zpsqarjqaex.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150255a_zpsqarjqaex.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7098a_zpstnhubnqs.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7098a_zpstnhubnqs.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150332a_zps67qa7gu9.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/20170510_150332a_zps67qa7gu9.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7101a_zpsxclf2rjp.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7101a_zpsxclf2rjp.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6646a_zpsw8wqdhpr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6646a_zpsw8wqdhpr.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7102a_zpskcbpghsj.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7102a_zpskcbpghsj.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6647a_zpsyopo4h1g.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_6647a_zpsyopo4h1g.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7103a_zpsjcxhcwi6.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7103a_zpsjcxhcwi6.jpg.html)

decojoe67
07-21-2017, 07:08 PM
You do impeccable work! Very impressive. You turned that set into a real jewel.

Crist Rigott
07-21-2017, 07:13 PM
You do impeccable work! Very impressive. You turned that set into a real jewel.

Thank you.

DavGoodlin
07-24-2017, 10:21 AM
Nice job! The painting of the back cover really helps too. One of mine was painted gold, and still looks OK. The other is like yours.

My two should like this look as good!

Eric H
07-24-2017, 11:52 AM
If you don't find an antenna I have one. It's out of a slender seventeener but I think it's the same.

The plastic bushing is rough but the antenna itself is good.

yours for shipping if you need it.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=195180&stc=1&d=1500911416

Crist Rigott
07-24-2017, 04:24 PM
If you don't find an antenna I have one. It's out of a slender seventeener but I think it's the same.

The plastic bushing is rough but the antenna itself is good.

yours for shipping if you need it.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=195180&stc=1&d=1500911416

Thank you Eric. I have the bushings and all. Check your PM.

Crist Rigott
08-02-2017, 11:00 PM
I made a detailed post over on ARF about how I redid the knobs. So I thought I'd post that info here as well.

Here is what I did to the top knobs. I used the original knobs and cleaned them very good. This of course took off more of the letters/numbers. I tried using a black filler crayon to restore the letters/numbers. No dice. The indentations were very shallow. This must be the reason why the letters/numbers were so easily worn off. After that I lifted off the brass "bright" on each knob. It was glued but the glue broke free without much effort.

After cleaning them I tried polishing them with Gorhams Silver polish. Like the rest of the TV, the brass plating was pretty much worn off too! I then sprayed on some primer, sanded it smooth and used my Bright Gold Rust-Oleum spry paint to get them back up to an acceptable level. I suppose I could have looked into getting them re-plated, but I thought the cost would be too high.

Back to the plastic knobs. Once cleaned, I sprayed them with several coats of sandable primer. After they dried, I lightly sanded each knob "face" smooth. I then used some auto body galzing putty to fill what was left of the letter/number indentations. Then another 2 coats of primer sanded smooth. I then sprayed on several coats of Antique White Rust-Oleum spray paint. When dried overnight, I very lightly sanded the "face" of each knob till the paint was "level" and there was no sign of any "orange peel".

I then made up some decals using my CAD program. I was able to match the font perfectly. I then ran my clear laser decal paper through my Brother laser printer. This prints the image onto the decal paper. I then applied a light coat of decal "bonder" by Testers. When dry, I applied a medium coat, then 3 more medium/heavy coats to the decals. I let them dry overnight.

I then installed the "brights" with some glue and pressed them into position.

I then carefully cut out each decal and applied them to the knobs. Carefully blotting out the excess water and smoothing the decals very flat. Again I let them dry overnight.

I then fogged on several coats of the decal bonder over the entire knob. Then followed by several medium/light coats. Followed by several medium coats. When dry I installed the knobs.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7162a_zpsujzdgdfz.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7162a_zpsujzdgdfz.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7164a_zpssioxby1m.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Philco%20Seventeener%20II/100_7164a_zpssioxby1m.jpg.html)