View Full Version : Britains oldest TV!


Dude111
02-12-2017, 05:38 AM
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8425738/Oldest-working-television-set-expected-to-sell-for-5000.html

That TV looks awesome!!!!

I wonder who bought it,they didnt update the article...... Which could mean it wasnt sold yet...

vts1134
02-12-2017, 06:38 AM
It sold at auction for $27,000+ (at the conversion rate of the time). MZTV in Toronto was the buyer.

decojoe67
02-12-2017, 07:58 AM
I believe it is also the first production model all-electronic television in the world. I think it was wiser for America to wait a few years more to work-out standards in the industry. Glad MZTV got it. They have an amazing collection.

Dude111
02-12-2017, 11:42 AM
Wow thanx for the update on who got it!

Winky Dink
02-12-2017, 12:19 PM
What a fool! He could've got a brand new color set for less than that.

(This is the type of reaction I got when I saved our family's 1950 TV--"Why are you keeping it-- it's only black and white.")

MadMan
02-12-2017, 03:16 PM
Honestly the cabinet alone would've made it worth saving, it's gorgeous.

Jon A.
02-12-2017, 06:45 PM
5000 Pounds! As Marty McFly would say, that's heavy.

David Roper
02-12-2017, 07:30 PM
That article is chock full of inaccuracies. The set appears to be a Marconi 702, which was not one of the original dual-standard sets of 1936. The article gives the impression that there was a ten year gap in British TV service due to the Crystal Palace fire, which is a bizarre and absurd retelling of history. "Logie Baird and Marconi had separate companies but used the same people to make the sets, but Marconi became the most popular maker." Um, what? The auctioneer also claimed the TV set was a result of British radar technology from WW2. Hop in your DeLorean and figure that one out....

benman94
02-12-2017, 09:31 PM
David, the 702 was one of the original '36 sets. There is at least one example out there with the Baird/EMI switch. Look at Radiomuseum.org or the ETF...

David Roper
02-12-2017, 10:09 PM
My quick search was too quick apparently: The set in the ETF collection is listed on the site as a 1937 model. I'm about ten years outside of the period when I was poring over things like this constantly; guess I need a refresher. :)

ppppenguin
02-13-2017, 02:51 AM
The Marconiphone 702 and it's HMV equivalent, the 901, were some of the first sets available in 1936. My own 702 was declared to be the oldest working TV in the UK back in 2009: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8159406.stm

Which of the surviving 702/901 sets is actually the oldest would be difficult to prove. My friend Peter Scott has compiled a list of serial number of the sets and chassis from this model. The results are inconclusive. After WW2 EMI offered owners of their sets a free refurbishment to ready them for the restart of the service in 1946. During this any surviving 240 line switches and components were removed. Also as far as we can tell the various chassis were refurbished outside the sets and not necessarily replaced in their original cabinets.

I remember the set that was sold at Bonhams in 2011. I was asked to look at it before the sale and it was indeed a fine example. From memory it sold for about GBP16000, a new record for one of these sets.

A very fine example is owned by Russell Atkinson and was immaculately restored by Mike Barker. This set has particulalrly good CRT too. It can be seen here:
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=192916&d=1478860194

vts1134
02-13-2017, 01:05 PM
Honestly the cabinet alone would've made it worth saving, it's gorgeous.

+1

It's really stunning in person.

peter scott
03-03-2017, 03:35 PM
You can find more information on these sets here:
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk/

Peter

TV-collector
03-03-2017, 06:26 PM
The Telefunken sets are older, all electronics.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefunken_fe_iii.html
http://www.earlytelevision.org/telefunken.html
https://www.google.de/search?q=telefunken+fe+3&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixm8ict7vSAhWEaxQKHccVCMgQsAQIKQ&biw=1024&bih=644#imgrc=Xnfl0gjmfbbP9M:
https://www.google.de/search?q=telefunken+fe+3&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=H5S62oHxgDqlhM%253A%253B13DU7Gnj-HqTBM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbs.cyty.com%252 52Fmenschen%25252Fe-etzold%25252Farchiv%25252FTV%25252Ftv.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=H5S62oHxgDqlhM%253A%252C13DU7Gnj-HqTBM%252C_&usg=__hyg4m5dI7Yp6cGcvmZNLEILCVH0%3D&biw=1024&bih=644&ved=0ahUKEwixm8ict7vSAhWEaxQKHccVCMgQyjcINw&ei=ifS5WPGyCoTXUceroMAM#imgdii=RMQYHqtgxJoyIM:&imgrc=H5S62oHxgDqlhM:
Or read this:
http://heureka-stories.de/Erfindungen/1930---Das-Fernsehen/Die-ganze-Geschichte
On the second page are errors, pictues with wrong discription :
-Argus Capitol
-Philips ATX

TV-collector:stupid:

tubesrule
03-04-2017, 07:47 AM
The Telefunken sets are older, all electronics.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefunken_fe_iii.html
http://www.earlytelevision.org/telefunken.html
https://www.google.de/search?q=telefunken+fe+3&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixm8ict7vSAhWEaxQKHccVCMgQsAQIKQ&biw=1024&bih=644#imgrc=Xnfl0gjmfbbP9M:
https://www.google.de/search?q=telefunken+fe+3&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=H5S62oHxgDqlhM%253A%253B13DU7Gnj-HqTBM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbs.cyty.com%252 52Fmenschen%25252Fe-etzold%25252Farchiv%25252FTV%25252Ftv.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=H5S62oHxgDqlhM%253A%252C13DU7Gnj-HqTBM%252C_&usg=__hyg4m5dI7Yp6cGcvmZNLEILCVH0%3D&biw=1024&bih=644&ved=0ahUKEwixm8ict7vSAhWEaxQKHccVCMgQyjcINw&ei=ifS5WPGyCoTXUceroMAM#imgdii=RMQYHqtgxJoyIM:&imgrc=H5S62oHxgDqlhM:
Or read this:
http://heureka-stories.de/Erfindungen/1930---Das-Fernsehen/Die-ganze-Geschichte
On the second page are errors, pictues with wrong discription :
-Argus Capitol
-Philips ATX


Or this receiver that is older than them all:
http://www.earlytelevision.org/rca_1932.html

The year on the caption is in error. These sets were designed in 1930 and completed in July 1931.

decojoe67
03-04-2017, 01:57 PM
I think what's more important is the first production television set. There where many CRT television prototypes done in the early part of '30's. I have a picture in one of my books of Vladimir Zworykin standing next to an RCA credenza style mirror-in-the-lid CRT television set from 1929! It likely was nothing more than an interesting looking piece of furniture at that time, although the man was getting there quickly!

tubesrule
03-04-2017, 02:50 PM
I think what's more important is the first production television set. There where many CRT television prototypes done in the early part of '30's. I have a picture in one of my books of Vladimir Zworykin standing next to an RCA credenza style mirror-in-the-lid CRT television set from 1929! It likely was nothing more than an interesting looking piece of furniture at that time, although the man was getting there quickly!

While the 1931 RCA receiver was not a set the public could buy, it was internally called the "Pre-Commercial Television Receiver" and was done to evaluate the quality, operation and cost of ownership of a fully electronic picture/sound receiver. This was not some lab prototype or test mule but was a fully packaged, fully functioning television receiver we would recognize today that was placed into the homes of RCA engineers/officers. All costs of manufacturing, ease of use and technical aspects were recorded to evaluate the feasibility of full production. I know of no other full television receiver of this era that was readied for production, let alone one that made it out of the lab. While it turned out to be a wise move to wait for the release of commercial television, there is no reason these units, as is, could not have been sold to the public.

Von Ardenne's test of 1930 were of a closed circuit film scanner and monitor which was not a full transmitter/receiver and not new for the time. Others had done these test back to at least 1929. Your picture of Zworykin and his 1929 picture receiver in the Radial 47 cabinet shows the state of the art. That 1929 picture receiver was operated and described in the December 1929 issue of Radio Engineering so it was more than just a piece of furniture.

decojoe67
03-04-2017, 03:18 PM
..... Your picture of Zworykin and his 1929 picture receiver in the Radial 48 cabinet shows the state of the art. That 1929 picture receiver was operated and described in the December 1929 issue of Radio Engineering so it was more than just a piece of furniture.
Interesting! Thanks for the info. It would've been so great if that 1929 proto. would've survived. What a beautiful TV it was. Someone very skilled could actually recreate one if they could find a nice 1929 Radiola 47!
https://www.radiolaguy.com/images/Radiola/Radiola47x_small1.jpg

peter scott
03-04-2017, 03:58 PM
The development of receivers was interesting but the real initiator of viable television was the electronic camera incorporating charge storage and for that we have to wait for Zworykin along with Ballard's interlacing in 1934.

See: http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk/Emitron.htm

Peter

tubesrule
03-04-2017, 07:10 PM
True Peter. Without that piece of the puzzle television would have to wait.

Darryl

damien191
03-07-2017, 12:35 AM
That article is chock full of inaccuracies. The set appears to be a Marconi 702, which was not one of the original dual-standard sets of 1936. The article gives the impression that there was a ten year gap in British TV service due to the Crystal Palace fire, which is a bizarre and absurd retelling of history. "Logie Baird and Marconi had separate companies but used the same people to make the sets, but Marconi became the most popular maker." Um, what? The auctioneer also claimed the TV set was a result of British radar technology from WW2. Hop in your DeLorean and figure that one out....

there was a small gap in British TV during WW II? they halted television broadcasts at the time for some reason or another - the crystal palace transmitter was more than likely the only one that reached his home in the 30's

"Britain: Television transmission was suspended on the day that war was declared against Germany. The Alexandra Palace transmitter was retuned and used to jam German aircraft navigation frequencies, and television manufacturing facilities were converted to make radio and radar equipment. Apparently, toward the end of the war, transmissions were resumed from Alexandra Palace in preparation for full scale production." earlytelevision.org

"ts analogue channels were BBC One and BBC Two (styled BBC 1 and BBC 2 until 1997). The BBC first began a television service, initially serving London only, in 1936. BBC Television was closed during World War II but reopened in 1946." wikipedia

Mr Davis bought the Marconi type–702 set on November 26 1936 / WWII Sep 1, 1939 – Sep 2, 1945 - its reasonable to assume that as rare as tv's were they would not have been concerned with rebuilding the tower when there was a war looming even then

ppppenguin
03-07-2017, 01:55 AM
Need to correct a few misconceptions in the last post.

TV started in London on 2nd November 1936 from Alexandra Palace. The first regular high definition service in the world.

It closed down at the outbreak of WW2 (Septemeber 1939) for 3 main reasons. One was that it was a luxury that couldn't be afforded during wartime. Another was the fear the transmissions could act as beacon to guide enemy aircraft. The third was that the skilled engineers and technicians were needed for work on radar.

The Alexandra Palace transmitter was used during WW2 to counter the "Y" beam navigation system used by the Luftwaffe. There are also persistent stories of the studios being used late in the war for TV demonstrations. Exactly what happened is still unclear.

After WW2 the service was restarted in time for the victory parade in 1946. This used exactly the same equipment as before WW2. Much maintenance was needed but no rebuilding of the studios or tower at Ally Pally.

Transmission was moved from Ally Pally to Crystal Palace in 1956. Studios remained at Ally Pally.

The 1936 fire at Crystal Palace destroyed the Baird company's laboratories there. The BBC TV transmissions were not affected.

BBC2 started in 1964 on 625 lines, UHF with transmissions from Crystal Palace. At that point the original BBC TV service became known as BBC1.

The 702 was one of the original sets released in 1936 for the start of the TV service.

The relationship between TV and radar in the the UK is interesting. A lot of technology was common to both. There is no truth in the often repeated suggestion that the UK government deliberately encouraged the development of TV in order to provide a good basis for radar. However in the UK we were fortunate to have developed CRTs, VHF techniques etc before WW2. TV also gave us a pool of skilled engineers and factories capable of making radar equipment. Radar IF was 45MHz (same as BBC TV vision) for many years, due to the good performance of a TRF TV receiver made by Pye which used the then new EF50 valves.

damien191
03-07-2017, 03:37 PM
thanks - there were bits i couldn't find in the quick googling i did looking for facts, but i wanted to give some insight from the little i did know

now i know more... soon i shall know even more slightly!!!!