View Full Version : Early Perry Como color show-filmed


oldtvman
12-27-2016, 05:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNKFDfyH_U

David Roper
12-27-2016, 05:37 PM
As stated in the comments, it was definitely not recorded on Super 8 film and I would venture a guess not on any other kind of 8 either. The resolution is surprisingly good and, although apparently just someone's camera pointed at a 21" CRT, the shutter is perfectly in sync with the live video.

EdKozk2
12-27-2016, 07:09 PM
The Super 8 film format wasn't even around in 1958 yet. The sound quality is very good also. Had to have been recorded on 16mm or 35mm with sound film. I don't know if NBC had color video tape yet?

old_tv_nut
12-27-2016, 11:56 PM
The time-delay kinescope recordings were made with separate sound tape, I believe, which would explain the sound quality. This film, however is very odd. It obviously originated on a kinescope recorder of some type, as evidenced by the lack of shutter bars. Notice also the somewhat poor vertical linearity. The question then becomes one of what type of kinescope.

1) A lenticular recording, later transferred to Eastman color?
1a) This program date may be after lenticular recording was stopped - have to find the dates when it was used
2) An experimental recording from a color kinescope? Note the round image borders as well as the vertical linearity problem. One would expect a non-experimental kinescope recorder to have nearly perfect linearity by this time.
Note that the known Ernie Kovacs lenticular film does not have a round mask, and the quality looks much poorer than the Perry Como film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEBg6ansaJA
2a) maybe a color video tape, later transferred via a color kinescope recording experiment?

old_tv_nut
12-28-2016, 12:04 AM
I take back the comment on sound quality - at the end, it sounds like an optical track wandering in and out of alignment. It would really be interesting to know how many generations and of what equipment this video went through.

Electronic M
12-28-2016, 12:16 AM
I wonder how hard it would be for a home experimenter to synch a camera electronically to the vertical circuit of a TV? (perhaps a small synchronous motor driven from the yoke?)

I have only had time to see ~1 minute but the camera motion relative to the CRT makes me think it is not a professional/broadcast kinnescope system since those usually tended to be mechanically constrained to not move like that.

old_tv_nut
12-28-2016, 12:37 AM
I wonder how hard it would be for a home experimenter to synch a camera electronically to the vertical circuit of a TV? (perhaps a small synchronous motor driven from the yoke?)
Really difficult because either the shutter opening time has to be perfect or the CRT scan has to be electronically gated so that no light or dark shutter bar appears in the center of alternate film frames.



I have only had time to see ~1 minute but the camera motion relative to the CRT makes me think it is not a professional/broadcast kinnescope system since those usually tended to be mechanically constrained to not move like that.

Remember that the film weave you see could be in the camera that made the original film or in the projector used to convert it back to video or in any intermediate film apparatus used to get to the final film print. Being this bad does indicate experimental gear somewhere in the chain, but doesn't tell where.

old_tv_nut
12-28-2016, 01:11 AM
Here's a diagram of two ways to get 24fps film from a 60 field per second video. The second method illustrated (intermittent fast pulldown mechanism) would not be in a home camera or even a professional film camera not specifically made for kinescope recording.

consoleguy67
12-28-2016, 05:40 AM
Of course NBC had video tape back in 1958. The Fred Astaire special was on video tape.

Electronic M
12-28-2016, 07:56 AM
Really difficult because either the shutter opening time has to be perfect or the CRT scan has to be electronically gated so that no light or dark shutter bar appears in the center of alternate film frames.
Remember that the film weave you see could be in the camera that made the original film or in the projector used to convert it back to video or in any intermediate film apparatus used to get to the final film print. Being this bad does indicate experimental gear somewhere in the chain, but doesn't tell where.

Your assuming 24fps film on the original camera, I'm assuming 30fps... If it was experimental why let the process be constrained by a standard difference that need not be fixed in stone.

old_tv_nut
12-28-2016, 11:16 AM
30 fps is quite possible. Even if it's too difficult to pull the film down within the vertical retrace, the splice point could be at the extreme bottom or top of the TV field, which is not visible here.

oldtvman
12-28-2016, 03:36 PM
Of course NBC had video tape back in 1958. The Fred Astaire special was on video tape.

The original notes stated this show was broadcast in 1956.

old_tv_nut
12-28-2016, 04:53 PM
Curiouser and curiouser. Could be an experiment using a triniscope to get the required brightness for color film.

A post here mentions a few early color kinescope recordings that exist, including "A few of them survive—there's the second half of a Dinah/first half of Perry Como show that exists."

http://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14914

It laos inlcudes alink to this Youtube video of a 1960s color kinescope of "Truth or Consequences". Note this one has no rounded edges.

Another post says that CBS transferred some of its series to color kinescope for distribution to schools as films.

Eric H
12-28-2016, 05:17 PM
The YouTube posting uses the British spelling "Colour" so I wonder if this is sourced from England?

old_tv_nut
12-28-2016, 05:22 PM
Here's a quick try at color correction in Photoshop.
Note that you can see a greenish area at top and bottom, and a bit of red misregistration on the far right.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/604/31908120126_e6b3c3a7a5_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/766/31572158660_4382c8d825_b.jpg

Steve D.
12-29-2016, 12:58 PM
Dinah Shore "Chevy Show" & Eddie Fisher "Coke Time" 1954 color kinescopes still exist in their entirety at the Sony Studios restoration archives.

-Steve D.

oldtvman
12-31-2016, 04:13 PM
Dinah Shore "Chevy Show" & Eddie Fisher "Coke Time" 1954 color kinescopes still exist in their entirety at the Sony Studios restoration archives.

-Steve D.
Steve, although I was a small child when color came out, it's still amazing to see these old programs and how good color was. Somehow I'm not seeing all the flaws talked about be those who watched early color. Proper signal and setup were one of the keys.

holmesuser01
12-31-2016, 04:25 PM
Seeing the Colour spelling made me think this might be a super 8 print of the kinescope print. There is pre-print damage in the NBC peacock, and some splices seen from a negative source.

Looks pretty good for what it is. I used to have several kine Como shows on B/W, and they looked good, too.