View Full Version : Tech-Master NIB TV Kit #5516


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Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 01:29 AM
Guys,

I won this 1955 TV kit NIB at an auction today. It does not come with a CRT.

The parts haven't even been removed from the carton! I talked to the seller and he said that he removed the instruction sheet to see what CRT it uses, but he didn't have that type. Otherwise completely unmolested. Because he already looked at the instruction sheet, I pulled them from the envelope.

What a find!

Of course the real question is should I keep it this way or build it?

Photobucket isn't cooperating so no pictures right now. I did post some pictures over on ARF.

Kevin Kuehn
11-20-2016, 11:40 AM
I wouldn't have any reservations building that. Looks like any 70 degree electrostatic focus CRT could work, but I'm guessing that chassis is set up for a 17" tube, like a 17HP4.

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/ARF%20Pictures/Tech%20Master%20TV%20Kit%20001_zpskffw6mag.jpg

Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 12:39 PM
Some pictures.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5017a_zpsjs5iwtmv.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5017a_zpsjs5iwtmv.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5025a_zpsprlmg0df.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5025a_zpsprlmg0df.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5028a_zpsd4alkswo.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5028a_zpsd4alkswo.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5031a_zpscv31txbv.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5031a_zpscv31txbv.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5032a_zpsmlptpeus.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5032a_zpsmlptpeus.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5035a_zpsctpnlkyw.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5035a_zpsctpnlkyw.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5036a_zpsydywvpbm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5036a_zpsydywvpbm.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 12:41 PM
Kevin,
Thanks for the reply. I needed that info for a CRT! Where did you get it? Was it a page from an Allied Catalog or such?

Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 12:49 PM
I also think it uses a magnetic focused CRT. There is a fly-back transformer and the schematic shows a HV lead going to a 2nd anode on the CRT.

I think the ad has a typo.

Kevin Kuehn
11-20-2016, 01:18 PM
The listing is from my 1956 Burstein Applebee Co. Radio Master catalog.

Magnetically deflected, but electrostatic focus, unless your kit came with a electromagnetic focus coil? Your build manual must share some information on compatible picture tubes?

Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 01:24 PM
The listing is from my 1956 Burstein Applebee Co. Radio Master catalog.

Magnetically deflected, but electrostatic focus, unless your kit came with a electromagnetic focus coil? Your build manual must share some information on compatible picture tubes?

OK, I'm confused. There doesn't appear to be a focus coil used in this TV.

Here is the schematic:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5038a_zps7jictfwd.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5038a_zps7jictfwd.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 01:29 PM
The manual suggests "A low-voltage electrostatic or self-focus picture tube is recommended for use with this receiver."

Kevin Kuehn
11-20-2016, 01:32 PM
OK, I'm confused. There doesn't appear to be a focus coil used in this TV.

That's because it's intended to use an electrostatic focused CRT. Which is nothing more than a DC voltage that connects to the CRT's focus pin. I think on a 17HP4 it's G4, but I can't make it out on your schematic.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/1/17HP4.pdf

Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 02:13 PM
That's because it's intended to use an electrostatic focused CRT. Which is nothing more than a DC voltage that connects to the CRT's focus pin. I think on a 17HP4 it's G4, but I can't make it out on your schematic.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/1/17HP4.pdf

On the schematic, pin 6 is grounded.

Kevin Kuehn
11-20-2016, 02:24 PM
On the schematic, pin 6 is grounded.


That makes sense. Notice the -56-310v range for pin 6 on the17HP4 spec sheet. My experience has been that those electrostatic focused types are not very sensitive to what voltage that pin gets tied to. So they basically are self focusing. Don't think I've ever seen a electrostatic focused set with an adjustable control?

Crist Rigott
11-20-2016, 03:11 PM
That makes sense. Notice the -56-310v range for pin 6 on the17HP4 spec sheet. My experience has been that those electrostatic focused types are not very sensitive to what voltage that pin gets tied to. So they basically are self focusing. Don't think I've ever seen a electrostatic focused set with an adjustable control?

OK.

I've looked up some CRT's that would work:

17HP4
17TP4
17CGP4
17CP4B
19QP4
20HP4
20HP4E
20LP4
20MP4
21FP4D
21AFP4
21YFP4

wa2ise
11-20-2016, 06:56 PM
Get new caps instead of using the wax caps that came with it, also use new electrolytics too.

Be careful, it looks like a hot chassis set.

And be sure that the CRT you use has the same heater current as that of the heater string.

dieseljeep
11-20-2016, 11:33 PM
Get new caps instead of using the wax caps that came with it, also use new electrolytics too.

Be careful, it looks like a hot chassis set.

And be sure that the CRT you use has the same heater current as that of the heater string.

It's a low B+ hot chassis design, similar to the AC-DC Emerson set I just restored.
The CRT used would be a 17HP4, 20HP4 or a 21YP4. I would stick with the 17HP4 type, as the design is a slightly lower high voltage supply, intended for smaller screen sets.
I see it uses the tried and true synchro-guide horizontal circuit. :thmbsp:
All the CRT's at the time were 600 ma, 6.3volt heaters.

Crist Rigott
11-21-2016, 12:50 AM
Get new caps instead of using the wax caps that came with it, also use new electrolytics too.

Be careful, it looks like a hot chassis set.

And be sure that the CRT you use has the same heater current as that of the heater string.

Will do on all counts. Thanks

Crist Rigott
11-21-2016, 12:52 AM
It's a low B+ hot chassis design, similar to the AC-DC Emerson set I just restored.
The CRT used would be a 17HP4, 20HP4 or a 21YP4. I would stick with the 17HP4 type, as the design is a slightly lower high voltage supply, intended for smaller screen sets.
I see it uses the tried and true synchro-guide horizontal circuit. :thmbsp:
All the CRT's at the time were 600 ma, 6.3volt heaters.

Yeah, I checked the specs and a 19QP4 is a 12K CRT. That would be a good one too...right?

dieseljeep
11-21-2016, 11:45 AM
Yeah, I checked the specs and a 19QP4 is a 12K CRT. That would be a good one too...right?
Isn't the 19QP4 a Dumont type round tube?
The number is not familiar to me and I've seen a lot of old TV's, but not real many Dumonts.
Unless you meant, 14QP4? :scratch2:

Crist Rigott
11-21-2016, 12:18 PM
Isn't the 19QP4 a Dumont type round tube?
The number is not familiar to me and I've seen a lot of old TV's, but not real many Dumonts.
Unless you meant, 14QP4? :scratch2:

No, it is not a round tube.

dieseljeep
11-21-2016, 12:35 PM
No, it is not a round tube. I'm attaching the spec sheet for it.
I've never seen a set that used one and it goes back to 1953. :scratch2:
Unless, you already have one, I don't think that one would be that easy to source. It's hard enough getting the more common types for the old sets.
I jumped on the chance to get a NOS 14QP4 for my Emerson 1956 model AC/DC set. The original was a 14HP4, but I knew the Q was a perfect sub.

Crist Rigott
11-21-2016, 02:17 PM
Here is a list of CRT's that I pretty sure will work. Of course there are others, I just haven't taken the time to do more research. I sent off an email to EFT because they list about 6 from 17" to 21" that will work. I'm guessing that a 19FP4 and a 19KP4 if there are such animals would work also.

17CGP4
17FP4
17GP4
17HP4
17LP4
19QP4
20FP4
20GP4
20HP4
20HP4C
20CP4
20MP4
21AFP4
21FP4
21KP4
21MP4

Kevin Kuehn
11-21-2016, 03:05 PM
Keep in mind the width and length of your chassis. There may be yoke(neck length and height) issues with mounting the larger CRT's on that chassis.

Crist Rigott
11-21-2016, 03:28 PM
Keep in mind the width and length of your chassis. There may be yoke(neck length and height) issues with mounting the larger CRT's on that chassis.

Yes, I've been thinking about that. Thanks.

dieseljeep
11-21-2016, 08:59 PM
Here is a list of CRT's that I pretty sure will work. Of course there are others, I just haven't taken the time to do more research. I sent off an email to EFT because they list about 6 from 17" to 21" that will work. I'm guessing that a 19FP4 and a 19KP4 if there are such animals would work also.

17CGP4
17FP4
17GP4
17HP4
17LP4
19QP4
20FP4
20GP4
20HP4
20HP4C
20CP4
20MP4
21AFP4
21FP4
21KP4
21MP4

The ones, I would go for is the 17HP4 or the 20HP4C. Those are the only ones that will fit without a problem. Some of the types shown are metal cone types.
Also, if you buy the tube from that source, MAKE SURE THEY TEST IT BEFORE THEY SEND TO YOU! :thumbsdn:

kvflyer
11-22-2016, 08:24 AM
I know that I am a little late to the party. But I too support building the kit and with new capacitors as mentioned above. I recently acquired an NOS Knight-Kit oscilloscope kit and I am in the process of building it. I have found my capacitors to all be still good. (The kit is from 1966 and most likely the tubular capacitors are Mylar). Resistors are mostly drifted high however. They are replaced.

If you intend to build it, keep us posted and we love pictures!

dieseljeep
11-22-2016, 10:26 AM
I know that I am a little late to the party. But I too support building the kit and with new capacitors as mentioned above. I recently acquired an NOS Knight-Kit oscilloscope kit and I am in the process of building it. I have found my capacitors to all be still good. (The kit is from 1966 and most likely the tubular capacitors are Mylar). Resistors are mostly drifted high however. They are replaced.

If you intend to build it, keep us posted and we love pictures!
The HV caps in there are high quality and are perfect for the boost circuit in GE PortaColors. :thmbsp:

Crist Rigott
11-22-2016, 02:38 PM
I did a little poking around without disturbing the kit. There are some pieces that are wrapped in newspaper. It was from the Obituary section! It listed someone who died on January 6, 1957.

I think the kit was designed in 1955, hence the #5516, but this kit shipped sometime in 1957.

The dates on the drawings IIRC was October 1955.

Crist Rigott
11-22-2016, 10:51 PM
Looks like ETF has 2 CRT's that would work.

A 17LP4B which is a good used aluminized CRT that operates at 12-14Kv.

A20MP4 which is a new CRT that operates at 14Kv.

I'll have to do a quick check to see if the 20MP4 will fit. Though I do think it will.

Any thoughts or comments on using a used aluminized 12Kv CRT vs a new "plain" 14Kv CRT?

Kevin Kuehn
11-23-2016, 01:25 AM
I just replied to your post over on the other site. IMO that aluminized CRT will be very fun to watch and much easier to handle while working on and moving it around. Not to mention big is not necessarily better when one collects many of very similar objects. ;)

Crist Rigott
11-23-2016, 01:34 AM
I just replied to your post over on the other site. IMO that aluminized CRT will be very fun to watch and much easier to handle while working on and moving it around. Not to mention big is not necessarily better when one collects many of very similar objects. ;)

Thanks for those thoughts.

I did check and the chassis will handle the 20MP4 easily. Matter of fact the 17LP4B might be a challenge. I'll have to check it out more closely though.

Kevin Kuehn
11-23-2016, 01:38 AM
I see that tube prefers about 14k anode voltage. I'm sure it will work on less, but it may not be optimal, especially as it grows tired with use. Someone else will know better than I.

http://tubedata.tigahost.com/tubedata/sheets/049/1/17LP4B.pdf

dieseljeep
11-23-2016, 11:32 AM
Thanks for those thoughts.

I did check and the chassis will handle the 20MP4 easily. Matter of fact the 17LP4B might be a challenge. I'll have to check it out more closely though.
The 17LP4 is used in the Emerson low B+ chassis. It has the cylindrical face plate like the 17QP4. Back in the day, they were more expensive and not as common as the 17HP4.

dieseljeep
11-23-2016, 11:49 AM
I see that tube prefers about 14k anode voltage. I'm sure it will work on less, but it may not be optimal, especially as it grows tired with use. Someone else will know better than I.

http://tubedata.tigahost.com/tubedata/sheets/049/1/17LP4B.pdf

The tube compliment is similar to my low B+ Emerson AC/DC set. MY set has the 14HP4, but the Sams states the set came through with a 14HP4, 17LP4 and a 21YP4. Somewhere in Riders it states that the 14" was the only one designated as AC/DC, even though the circuitry is similar.
It seems, the B+ wouldn't be high enough, running on 120 volt DC, to operate the larger CRTs.

Crist Rigott
11-23-2016, 12:12 PM
I did a little checking on other TV schematics from my Beitman's disc. I checked in the 1955 issue which is the same year the 5516 drawings were signed off.

As with most schematics from the manufacturers of the same time period, most were very similar. The Emerson chassis 120245D is very similar to the 5516 and it can use a 17LP4 or a 21YP4 CRT. It uses 14.5Kv with the same B+ and other voltages.

All-in-all, I looked at 6 different schematics (all string filament) and they went from 13.5Kv to 15.5Kv with similar tubes and B+ voltages.

Now, this is just me thinking, that if I were selling TV training and making kits to support that training, and TV's were getting larger screens then I would design a set that would support the trends. The chassis is certainly large enough for a 20MP4 and will fit with no problems at all. The design uses 3 IF stages and uses basically the same amount of tubes as most consumer TV's of the time. It's not like they scrimped like on my AMC 116T or a Muntz etc.

So I'm thinking that it will handle the 20MP4 without problems. I'm sure we all agree that the 17LP4B will work hands down. Anyway, it will last a lot longer than me. I don't plan on watching B&W TV 8 hours a day. Though, it is nice to see some of the TV shows when I was a kid!

Kevin Kuehn
11-23-2016, 02:23 PM
You'll likely be fine with either CRT. Of course you could hold off on the CRT purchase until after you have the set operating with an 8XP4 test CRT, at which point you'll have a better idea of the sets supply capabilities. I'm surprised if your manual or schematic doesn't specify the B+ and anode voltages. But as you suggest the circuits of that time period would have been very common.

Crist Rigott
11-23-2016, 02:33 PM
You'll likely be fine with either CRT. Of course you could hold off on the CRT purchase until after you have the set operating with an 8XP4 test CRT, at which point you'll have a better idea of the sets supply capabilities. I'm surprised if your manual or schematic doesn't specify the B+ and anode voltages. But as you suggest the circuits of that time period would have been very common.

The schematic shows +130V and +260V but no HV value.

benman94
11-23-2016, 02:36 PM
I've found that the 17, 20, and 21 inch tubes that specify a minimum ultor voltage will usually work WELL below the minimum recommended; a slight twist of the brightness control will usually suffice. Hell, my Philco 48-1000 refuses to put out more than about 6.5 kV, but the 10BP4 in it still shows a nice watchable, if not terribly bright, picture.

Kevin Kuehn
11-23-2016, 02:46 PM
I agree, although I believe there becomes more of a focus issue as the deflection angle increases.

Crist Rigott
11-27-2016, 09:18 PM
I checked my Riders index and they cover the 5516! The index lists 18-3 and 21-13. I have Riders for TV vol. 2 thru 12. IIRC Tech-Master 630 chassis is covered in volume 4. Riders included not only the electrical but also mechanical info. Screw sizes etc. I'm thinking that maybe this information would also be included for my 5516 chassis.

Does anybody have these volumes and could you check to see what Riders shows? It would be really appreciated if I could get a copy of those pages.

Thanks.

Crist Rigott
12-01-2016, 11:20 PM
Well, I started messing with the kit. I went up to the copy place and made copies and pdf's of the 6 instruction sheets to assemble the TV, the instruction booklet that goes into alignment and troubleshooting. The booklet also has the schematic which again I made a large copy and then pdf it. Also a large sheet that covers the IF strip instructions was copied and pdf. The pdf's are huge like from over 1mb to just under 5mb. I'll share those with everybody if I knew how. I also have copies and pdf of the Supplementary sheets. Basically if it came with the kit, it was copied and pdf!

Over the years the chassis cad plating has turned a yellowish green both on the top and underneath the chassis and yoke support. I have several pictures that show how bad it was.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5059a_zpszzxhswoa.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5059a_zpszzxhswoa.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5073a_zps2klpkxan.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5073a_zps2klpkxan.jpg.html)

Here is a picture of the IF Strip from the bottom:
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5065a_zpspbrdncca.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5065a_zpspbrdncca.jpg.html)

I did inventory and took a lot of pictures of each bag. That will be a separate post.

Here is another view of the bottom of the chassis:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5088a_zpsixfofflp.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5088a_zpsixfofflp.jpg.html)

Here is proof that it was aligned:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5090a_zpsl8ckdkqc.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5090a_zpsl8ckdkqc.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-01-2016, 11:42 PM
I cleaned the chassis, yoke support, tuner, etc to get rid of the cad plating. I read somewhere that simple Green works great. It does! What I did was to pull the tuner, IF strip, filter caps, Selenium rectifier, fly back transformer, vertical output transformer, rubber grommets, all the pots, the HV rect. tube socket, etc. If I could unscrew it, it came off. This made the job a lot easier. I first masked off the tube sockets both top and bottom, then I would spray on some cleaner and then rub it around then after a few seconds I used a terry cloth to scrub and wipe the chassis clean. In reality, not much scrubbing. I also would use an acid brush and Q-Tips where needed. Once cleaned I would do the same thing again only with rubbing alcohol to further clean the metal.

Once that was done both top and bottom, I then used some Brasso to "even" out the look of the metal. Only this was done on the top, sides, and both sides of the yoke support. After that I wiped down the metal with WD-40. I then installed new rubber grommets. Here are some pics now that I'm done.

Here is the bottom of the chassis with everything installed back in that is going to get installed for now.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5275a_zpsqlk6t8ob.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5275a_zpsqlk6t8ob.jpg.html)

Here are some different views of where I am :

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5281a_zpsobtheikt.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5281a_zpsobtheikt.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5285a_zpsjb2y9noy.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5285a_zpsjb2y9noy.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5286a_zpsweg317ou.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5286a_zpsweg317ou.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5289a_zpspgxueagb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5289a_zpspgxueagb.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5290a_zpsvjmrejt2.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5290a_zpsvjmrejt2.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5292a_zpsxqdvmj83.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5292a_zpsxqdvmj83.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5293a_zpsd1cjutbm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5293a_zpsd1cjutbm.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5299a_zps8hnmm3pt.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5299a_zps8hnmm3pt.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-01-2016, 11:44 PM
While I had the tuner out, it was cleaned and then the turret strips were cleaned and the whole thing cleaned and lubed and reassembled.

Crist Rigott
12-02-2016, 12:16 AM
Anybody know what the VOT is coated with? It looks like varnish. The frame had some corrosion on it so I sanded it off, but now I need to re-coat it.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5305a_zpshtydegmc.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5305a_zpshtydegmc.jpg.html)

N2IXK
12-02-2016, 01:01 PM
Nice cleaning job! The transformer was likely dipped in insulating varnish after assembly.

I hope you were careful cleaning that chassis, as that yellow cadmium corrosion is pretty toxic stuff....

Findm-Keepm
12-02-2016, 01:42 PM
I cleaned the chassis, yoke support, tuner, etc to get rid of the cad plating. I read somewhere that simple Green works great. It does!

Vinegar works well too. You didn't remove the cadmium plating (unless the Brasso polishing did) - you removed the chromate salts they used to passivate the cadmium onto the steel, or cadmium sulfide/sulfate - both are yellowish green. If there was one thing Navy Corrosion Control taught me, it was that Chromate salts are always a yellowish green, and that raw cadmium corrodes to a grey powder.

The yellow-green patina is harmless to electronics undisturbed, but the chromate is toxic, so removing it from something handled so often was wise. We used to spray Humiseal on just-cleaned CADPLAD chassis to keep it from corroding - spray clear krylon (remove tubes and cover sockets!) works well.

Just dispose of your simple green rags in the trash - the concentration doesn't rise to hazmat levels.

Crist Rigott
12-02-2016, 02:01 PM
Nice cleaning job! The transformer was likely dipped in insulating varnish after assembly.

I hope you were careful cleaning that chassis, as that yellow cadmium corrosion is pretty toxic stuff....

Ok on the varnish.

Yup, I was careful.

Crist Rigott
12-02-2016, 02:03 PM
Vinegar works well too. You didn't remove the cadmium plating (unless the Brasso polishing did) - you removed the chromate salts they used to passivate the cadmium onto the steel, or cadmium sulfide/sulfate - both are yellowish green. If there was one thing Navy Corrosion Control taught me, it was that Chromate salts are always a yellowish green, and that raw cadmium corrodes to a grey powder.

The yellow-green patina is harmless to electronics undisturbed, but the chromate is toxic, so removing it from something handled so often was wise. We used to spray Humiseal on just-cleaned CADPLAD chassis to keep it from corroding - spray clear krylon (remove tubes and cover sockets!) works well.

Just dispose of your simple green rags in the trash - the concentration doesn't rise to hazmat levels.

Brian,

Thanks for the tip on the vinegar and the correction on the cad stuff. The Brasso treatment was very minimal, just to even out the coloration of the metal. the WD-40 finished it off nicely.

Kevin Kuehn
12-02-2016, 02:50 PM
The yellow-green patina is harmless to electronics undisturbed, but the chromate is toxic, so removing it from something handled so often was wise. We used to spray Humiseal on just-cleaned CADPLAD chassis to keep it from corroding - spray clear krylon (remove tubes and cover sockets!) works well.

Just dispose of your simple green rags in the trash - the concentration doesn't rise to hazmat levels.

I wonder just how easily those chromate salts are adsorbed through our skin? I always thought the main concern was not inhaling any in a dust form.

Findm-Keepm
12-02-2016, 05:41 PM
I wonder just how easily those chromate salts are adsorbed through our skin? I always thought the main concern was not inhaling any in a dust form.

A bit - there is a known dermatological response in most people, and some react with severe allergic reactions to the chromate salts.

"Chromium salts (chromates) are also the cause of allergic reactions in some people. Chromates are often used to manufacture, among other things, leather products, paints, cement, mortar, and anti-corrosives. Contact with products containing chromates can lead to allergic contact dermatitis and irritant dermatitis, resulting in ulceration of the skin, sometimes referred to as "chrome ulcers". This condition is often found in workers that have been exposed to strong chromate solutions in electroplating, tanning and chrome-producing manufacturers."

The worst reaction I've seen is a swollen red forehead on a worker that wiped off his sweat constantly while cleaning - the backstory is long, but he likened the pain to a jellyfish sting. I'm no expert, but have had the training three times - all after an incident elsewhere, the last in 2006. Laboratores, manus vestras perlavate. wash your hands...

Kevin Kuehn
12-02-2016, 07:27 PM
Owie. That point of adsorption never occurred to me.

Crist Rigott
12-02-2016, 11:46 PM
In keeping with fully documenting the kit, here are pictures of the bags of parts and the other parts that make up this kit.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5106a_zps4903o82s.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5106a_zps4903o82s.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5107a_zpsontqkshq.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5107a_zpsontqkshq.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5109a_zpsqxvtuk2l.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5109a_zpsqxvtuk2l.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5110a_zpswccytk1p.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5110a_zpswccytk1p.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5111a_zpsckor09uu.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5111a_zpsckor09uu.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5112a_zps57wxwmly.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5112a_zps57wxwmly.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-03-2016, 12:03 AM
Here are the contents of each bag. The parts are in order as they are in the parts list which is attached.

Bag #1: They give a interlock power cord, but no receptacle nor does the chassis have a cutout for one.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5313a_zps3qjgb1au.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5313a_zps3qjgb1au.jpg.html)

Bag #2:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5316a_zpsapuxxrax.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5316a_zpsapuxxrax.jpg.html)

Bag #3:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5317a_zpsa6gkbq0n.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5317a_zpsa6gkbq0n.jpg.html)

Bag #4:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5323a_zpsf0dy5iz0.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5323a_zpsf0dy5iz0.jpg.html)

Bag #4A:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5329a_zps2veed8mg.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5329a_zps2veed8mg.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5332a_zpspc4xqeub.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5332a_zpspc4xqeub.jpg.html)

Bag #5:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5326a_zpswgd4yuyk.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5326a_zpswgd4yuyk.jpg.html)

Bag #6:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5327a_zpsxkeeggky.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5327a_zpsxkeeggky.jpg.html)

Bag #7:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5343a_zps58iogseg.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5343a_zps58iogseg.jpg.html)

Bag #8:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5336a_zpsatk1ha2w.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5336a_zpsatk1ha2w.jpg.html)

Bag #9:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5337a_zps1toadvcm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5337a_zps1toadvcm.jpg.html)

Wire Bag:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5341a_zpsykukmwjr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5341a_zpsykukmwjr.jpg.html)

Newspaper:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5339a_zpsmhzrvice.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5339a_zpsmhzrvice.jpg.html)

Speaker:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5200a_zpslmbwfohs.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5200a_zpslmbwfohs.jpg.html)

Tubes: All Westinghouse.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5211a_zpssdp6sjrn.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5211a_zpssdp6sjrn.jpg.html)

Findm-Keepm
12-03-2016, 12:39 AM
Man, you are sitting on a goldmine of NOS wax caps - the guitar guys and some Asian audiophiles eat those up:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ftrt=901&_sadis=15&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_stpos=23518&_ftrv=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=wax+tone+capacitor&_sop=16

actually sold:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ftrt=901&_sadis=15&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_stpos=23518&_ftrv=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_nkw=wax%20tone%20capacitor&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

Swap them out for some yeller ones, and sell the wax ones....:yes:

Crist Rigott
12-03-2016, 12:50 AM
Man, you are sitting on a goldmine of NOS wax caps - the guitar guys and some Asian audiophiles eat those up:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ftrt=901&_sadis=15&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_stpos=23518&_ftrv=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=wax+tone+capacitor&_sop=16

actually sold:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ftrt=901&_sadis=15&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_stpos=23518&_ftrv=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_nkw=wax%20tone%20capacitor&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

Swap them out for some yeller ones, and sell the wax ones....:yes:

Yikes! My kit, replacement parts and CRT just became free! Maybe even the cabinet too.

I have an order to Just Radios ready, just have to hit send.

dieseljeep
12-03-2016, 12:02 PM
Yikes! My kit, replacement parts and CRT just became free! Maybe even the cabinet too.

I have an order to Just Radios ready, just have to hit send.
Many of the components look like surplus parts scrounge. Bag #4 has caps from GE and Delco radio. The Marblelites are from Good-All, commomly used back then.
At least, some of the resistors are Allen Bradley. Some of the others, I wouldn't trust, except for the IRC's.
Fun stuff, for sure! :thmbsp:

Electronic M
12-03-2016, 12:08 PM
Your HV lead has an inline plug on it....That might fit my CTC-4 HV receptacle. If you want to sell your HV lead or it swap for one off a 90's CRT TV just PM me.

Crist Rigott
12-03-2016, 12:16 PM
Many of the components look like surplus parts scrounge. Bag #4 has caps from GE and Delco radio. The Marblelites are from Good-All, commomly used back then.
At least, some of the resistors are Allen Bradley. Some of the others, I wouldn't trust, except for the IRC's.
Fun stuff, for sure! :thmbsp:

Yeah, I have to agree. Some of the components look like I bought them today, while others look a bit "suspect".

I did measure a few resistors and they showed at least 10% high. The kit uses 10% and 20% resistors. It really doesn't matter, all the resistors will get replaced with modern 5% ones and they will be 1W and 2W instead of 1/2W and 1W. Mainly because the leads on modern 1/2W resistors are pretty wimpy. The 1W have much better leads. And of course all the paper caps will get replaced. I won't be replacing the 1 mica cap (bag #5) on this set because it looks brand new and is modern type build.

Crist Rigott
12-03-2016, 12:20 PM
Your HV lead has an inline plug on it....That might fit my CTC-4 HV receptacle. If you want to sell your HV lead or it swap for one off a 90's CRT TV just PM me.

That just might happen. I'll keep you in mind when the time comes. Thanks for the offer.

Crist Rigott
12-03-2016, 08:34 PM
OK guys, I have a bit of a problem that needs to be worked out. Basically it is the wires that I add to the chassis are called out in the step by step as far as length and to/from. But the step by step never gives the color of the wire to be used.

I have 9 different colors that the kit included. See Wire Bag above. I have the most wire in red and black. The the other colors are about 10 to 20% of what the red and black wires are. I have 1 wire that's about 18 inches long and the color of it is white with an orange stripe.

I created a "wire schedule" in Excel listing all the wires in each of the 6 instruction sheets.

I'm guessing that the color wire to be used depends on either the circuit or function. For example in the Admiral I just finished, orange went to a filter cap and was like B+ IIRC, etc.

Is there a chart that would show what colors should be used depending on the circuit/function? I know that black is usually ground but in this case it could be B- because B- floats off of the chassis. Red could be B+ of 130 volts. I'm including some attachments that might help explain my situation. They are a schematic, a "snapshot" of the step by step instructions from sheet 1, and my wire schedule. I figured that I could sort the wires by circuit/function to help get what I need for colors.

Kevin Kuehn
12-04-2016, 03:34 PM
Radio Daze provides this handy color code chart. Of course this stuff in old text books as well.

http://www.radiodaze.com/vintage-component-color-code/

Crist Rigott
12-04-2016, 05:11 PM
Radio Daze provides this handy color code chart. Of course this stuff in old text books as well.

http://www.radiodaze.com/vintage-component-color-code/

Great! I'll see how that works out.

I did start to trace out the wiring and as far as step 1 goes, it looks like it is wiring B-, B+ etc. So I'm starting to fill in my chart. I'll use that chart as a guide and see how that works out especially with the wire lengths provided.

Crist Rigott
12-05-2016, 01:02 AM
Here are the wire lengths, in inches, of the wire provided in the kit. All wire is solid 20 awg.

Black - 256
Brown - 60
Red - 240
Orange - 120
Yellow - 36
Green - 53
Blue - 53
White - 54
White/Orange - 18
Fiberglass Sleeving - 13

The fiberglass sleeving fits a 20awg wire.

Findm-Keepm
12-05-2016, 07:34 AM
On behalf of Violet Wire, I demand a recount. :D:D

kvflyer
12-05-2016, 09:42 AM
On behalf of Violet Wire, I demand a recount. :D:D

You sound like a former phone company employee. We called it violet, not purple. :D

Findm-Keepm
12-05-2016, 01:40 PM
You sound like a former phone company employee. We called it violet, not purple. :D

Nah, just that the resistor (and wire) color code is based on the color spectrum, it's ROY G BIV, not ROY G BIP

Black, Brown, Gray and White, be gone!

True story - I knew the resistor color code before the 2nd grade.....

NOW BACK TO THE OP's thread....

Electronic M
12-05-2016, 04:14 PM
Nah, just that the resistor (and wire) color code is based on the color spectrum, it's ROY G BIV, not ROY G BIP

Black, Brown, Gray and White, be gone!

True story - I knew the resistor color code before the 2nd grade.....

NOW BACK TO THE OP's thread....

My mnemonic has all the colors, but might be a bit dirty for the forums...It is third hand from a navy guy IIRC. :D

Findm-Keepm
12-05-2016, 08:02 PM
My mnemonic has all the colors, but might be a bit dirty for the forums...It is third hand from a navy guy IIRC. :D

Bad Boys, Bad Beer, or Batman Beats? ;)

Crist Rigott
12-06-2016, 12:55 AM
Back on topic, I finished making up the wire schedule and assigning them color codes.

Here are the colors and their functions:

Black - B-
Brown - Filament
Red - B+ 130V
Orange - B++ 260V
Yellow - Cathode
Green - Grid
Blue - Plate
Violet - Speaker
Gray - 120VAC mains
White - Misc.

I used a few blue and green colors for misc. hook ups to keep the same color wire from going to adjacent terminal strip lugs. I did this maybe 3 or 4 times.

Going through this exercise, I did manage to find a couple of errors and made note of the corrections.

I'm attaching the wire schedule.

dieseljeep
12-06-2016, 12:19 PM
Back on topic, I finished making up the wire schedule and assigning them color codes.

Here are the colors and their functions:

Black - B-
Brown - Filament
Red - B+ 130V
Orange - B++ 260V
Yellow - Cathode
Green - Grid
Blue - Plate
Violet - Speaker
Gray - 120VAC mains
White - Misc.

I used a few blue and green colors for misc. hook ups to keep the same color wire from going to adjacent terminal strip lugs. I did this maybe 3 or 4 times.

Going through this exercise, I did manage to find a couple of errors and made note of the corrections.

I'm attaching the wire schedule.
According to the chart, it seems to follow the RMA color code. I like it a lot better for trouble shooting.
I built several Allied Knight-kits and they would furnish pre-cut wire of various lengths, the color corresponding to the length.
I always thought it was wrong, but I wired it per the instructions. :sigh:

Crist Rigott
12-06-2016, 10:34 PM
Yeah, I tried to follow the chart I found in the Radio Daze catalog.

Today I was looking at the chassis and decided to clean up the bottom like I did on the top. I also did the top of the IF strip too. Looks much better now. A lot closer to "brand new".

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5372a_zpsmn50zksd.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5372a_zpsmn50zksd.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5377a_zpsglif9g7f.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5377a_zpsglif9g7f.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-07-2016, 08:35 PM
Good news to report coming up. Stay tuned.

Crist Rigott
12-07-2016, 10:27 PM
I got a new 21FP4C rebuilt CRT. A big thank you to El Predicta who donated the CRT for this project. He also donated a spool of solid 20awg white wire. Thank you very much for your generosity!

Here are a few pictures of the CRT.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5378a_zps9eqfuykj.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5378a_zps9eqfuykj.jpg.html)
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5384a_zps5slhyhla.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5384a_zps5slhyhla.jpg.html)

I tested the CRT on my B&K 467. It checked out at 1.7.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5385a_zpsma1hygqd.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5385a_zpsma1hygqd.jpg.html)

And the Life Test showed a drop from 1.7 to 1.65.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5386a_zpst4tbhpug.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5386a_zpst4tbhpug.jpg.html)

Here is a picture of the straight gun. Yeah, I have to glue the base back on.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5390a_zpsrculxtex.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5390a_zpsrculxtex.jpg.html)

Again a big shout out to El Predicta! Thank you.

Crist Rigott
12-07-2016, 10:56 PM
The new CRT fits very well to the chassis.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5393a_zpsdxlambzb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5393a_zpsdxlambzb.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5391a_zps0evbqvde.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5391a_zps0evbqvde.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5395a_zps0ivvyato.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5395a_zps0ivvyato.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-10-2016, 11:19 PM
I started working on re-stuffing the E-Caps. The first one is the multi sectioned C43. It has a 20uf 150V, 10uf 150V, and a 100uf 25V.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5402a_zpsdb3cq8pa.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5402a_zpsdb3cq8pa.jpg.html)

After removing the cardboard cover, this is what I found:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5400a_zpssifce1sr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5400a_zpssifce1sr.jpg.html)

I was a bit taken back but decided that what I should use is what the schematic and parts list calls for.

What do you think?

Crist Rigott
12-10-2016, 11:30 PM
I'm in the middle of re-stuffing the E-Caps. I used my heat gun to heat up the cardboard cover and pulled it off the can. I then cleaned off all the black tar/wax from the capacitor. I then made some marks 3/8 inch up from the base of the cap. This is where I'll make the cut using my band saw. I cut each cap on the marks then dug out the caps innards. Cleaned up the bases and on the 2 single 200uf 150V caps I drilled 1/16 hole in the center and the other one near one of the mounting lugs. I'll run the wires through the holes and solder them to the correct lug.

I then took some 1" thin walled PVC tube and cut 1 inch lengths and trued up one end which was then marked.

After the bases were cleaned up and de-burred and the PVC tube de-burred and cleaned up, the marked end were epoxied into their bases. the excess epoxy was then wiped off and the assembly was cleaned using rubbing alcohol and then the new caps will be wired in.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5404a_zpsc3yddbtv.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5404a_zpsc3yddbtv.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5405a_zpscpf8actr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5405a_zpscpf8actr.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5406a_zpswmss1ari.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5406a_zpswmss1ari.jpg.html)

WISCOJIM
12-11-2016, 09:09 AM
I was a bit taken back but decided that what I should use is what the schematic and parts list calls for.

What do you think?I'd measure the cap and see what it truly was, and match that.

.

Crist Rigott
12-11-2016, 09:45 AM
I'd measure the cap and see what it truly was, and match that.

.

That would be kinda hard, seeing it's been cut in half. anyways I don't have any way to measure it.

kvflyer
12-11-2016, 09:51 AM
After removing the cardboard cover, this is what I found:...
I was a bit taken back but decided that what I should use is what the schematic and parts list calls for.

What do you think?

That is quite normal. Capacitor manufacturers would often use a can that was already stamped and stuff whatever they needed into it when they knew they were going to put a cardboard sleeve around it. I have seen it several times.

Crist Rigott
12-11-2016, 09:58 AM
That is quite normal. Capacitor manufacturers would often use a can that was already stamped and stuff whatever they needed into it when they knew they were going to put a cardboard sleeve around it. I have seen it several times.

I was thinking along the same lines. Remember this cap has never been installed, it is a part of the kit.

dieseljeep
12-11-2016, 12:43 PM
I restuff my cans in much the same way. The only thing different is, instead of the PVC pipe, I use the thin aluminum salvaged from a beverage can.
I cut the can apart with kitchen shears and roll the metal up as a sleave, then I use silicone sealant to hold it all together.

dieseljeep
12-11-2016, 01:04 PM
I'd measure the cap and see what it truly was, and match that.

.

I looks like they used more of those scrappy grab-bag parts.
The label made on a spirit duplicator shows some real class. Reminds me of school days, where some weekly tests were ran off on them.
The cap has a Sentinel part number from 1953. :sigh:
I would use 22mfd for the 10, 47 for the 20 @250 volts and 100 @160 volts for the 100 section.
BTW, Is there any truth to the theory that operating too high of a voltage rated 'lytic on lower voltage, IE a 450 volt cap at 150 volts, that they never seem to form properly, or just another urban tale. :scratch2:

Kevin Kuehn
12-11-2016, 02:38 PM
BTW, Is there any truth to the theory that operating too high of a voltage rated 'lytic on lower voltage, IE a 450 volt cap at 150 volts, that they never seem to form properly, or just another urban tale. :scratch2:

I tend to think they form up good enough for whatever voltage they're operated at. Admittedly it's one of my armchair theories, but to the best of my knowledge I've never had a cap fail because it's been operated at too low of voltage. ;)

N2IXK
12-11-2016, 05:07 PM
That is quite normal. Capacitor manufacturers would often use a can that was already stamped and stuff whatever they needed into it when they knew they were going to put a cardboard sleeve around it. I have seen it several times.

I'll second this. And it wasn't just budget manufacturers or short runs like training kits that they ended up in, either. Have seen them as OEM parts in RCA and DuMont sets, at least. Real obvious stuff like a 4 section cap that is stamped for a single section cap on the can itself.

Just the cap manufacturer "reclaiming" perfectly usable scrap from a previous production run, and using it where it presumably wouldn't be noticed.

Crist Rigott
12-11-2016, 06:29 PM
I'll second this. And it wasn't just budget manufacturers or short runs like training kits that they ended up in, either. Have seen them as OEM parts in RCA and DuMont sets, at least. Real obvious stuff like a 4 section cap that is stamped for a single section cap on the can itself.

Just the cap manufacturer "reclaiming" perfectly usable scrap from a previous production run, and using it where it presumably wouldn't be noticed.

Yes, I agree.

Crist Rigott
12-11-2016, 06:34 PM
Here is how I re-stuffed the E-Caps. Once the epoxy is dried, I attached some wires to each E-Caps, then used some hot glue to glue them together. I routed the wires together and secured them with some string tie. Then they were inserted through the hole and hot glued into place. Then the wires are soldered to each terminal.

I then slid on the can and fixed it into place with some clear tape. Then I wanted to increase the diameter of the can because the cardboard tube is a larger diameter that matches the base. This was done so when the E-Cap is inserted into the clamp, the cardboard tube is not crushed. I used some masking tape and manilla folder stock.

Then the tube is slid over the whole assembly. No glue is required here because of the clamp method of mounting.

The E-Caps were then inserted into their proper clamps. I did re-position TB20 by turning it 90 degrees to give me more room between TB20 and C43.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5411a_zpsgr0c0o79.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5411a_zpsgr0c0o79.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5412a_zpsicyrrgab.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5412a_zpsicyrrgab.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5413a_zpsidxp4qn8.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5413a_zpsidxp4qn8.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5414a_zpsmvy2bz4z.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5414a_zpsmvy2bz4z.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-11-2016, 06:37 PM
I do think that completes all the "prep" work I wanted to do before assembling the kit.

I still need some caps which are on order and should be here this coming week.

N2IXK
12-11-2016, 06:51 PM
It is kind of interesting that the kit came with all the tube sockets and terminal strips riveted in place. With Heathkits and Eico kits, the mechanical assembly was left to the kit builder, using screws and nuts, rather than rivets.

On Eico gear, you can usually identify the factory wired units by the riveted components, vs. the screws used on the kit units.

Crist Rigott
12-11-2016, 07:54 PM
It is kind of interesting that the kit came with all the tube sockets and terminal strips riveted in place. With Heathkits and Eico kits, the mechanical assembly was left to the kit builder, using screws and nuts, rather than rivets.

On Eico gear, you can usually identify the factory wired units by the riveted components, vs. the screws used on the kit units.

Yeah, on this one, to clean the bottom of the chassis better, I drilled out the riveted terminal strips, then used some 4-40 hardware to bolt them back on.

Crist Rigott
12-12-2016, 12:23 AM
I'm looking at the 115vac mains connection to the chassis.

Now I have to mention that the IF strip, Tuner, and all B- is floating above the chassis. The IF Strip and Tuner are mounted to the chassis using nylon "clip" nuts and the metal plate of the IF Strip and all the metal of the Tuner does not show continuity to the chassis.

Here is a photo of the mains power part of the schematic. Resistor R58, 1 meg, goes from the "switched" side to the chassis. This is the only connection that I can see where the chassis is connected to the mains. C54 will be a Y2 safety cap, and C52 will be a Y2 safety cap. There are 2 more caps one from the IF Strip metal plate and one from the Tuner chassis that goes to the chassis. I'm guessing that these need to be Y2 safety caps too. In the schematic you can see one of them (C57 from the Tuner chassis to the chassis) in the upper R/H corner.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5427a_zpsfdqtglun.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5427a_zpsfdqtglun.jpg.html)

I've never worked on a hot chassis before, so my question is should I wire the hot leg to the switch and the neutral through the fuse and onto the rest of the circuit? Seeing it is AC does it really matter? Should I reconfigure the wiring to switch the hot leg and have it going to the fuse and onto the rest of the circuit?

I do plan on using a polarized plug for the power cord. I won't be using the provided interlock cord though. Also I'll be using my isolation transformer with this chassis.

N2IXK
12-12-2016, 06:45 AM
Proper practice would be to wire the neutral side DIRECTLY to B-, and run the hot side first to the fuse, then through the switch.

Yes, all the caps from B- to chassis need to be mains-rated types.

Crist Rigott
12-12-2016, 05:50 PM
Here is another thought that I had. Would this TV benefit from a thermistor in the filament string? My mains are 122vac while the filament string adds up to 115vac.

Another question. In the tube data sheets they say the heater is surge is minimized during warm up. Most of the tube data sheet said this. What do they mean? Maybe I don't need a thermistor?

Electronic M
12-12-2016, 06:18 PM
They probably selected "controlled warm up" tubes (octals often had a 'GTA' or 'GTB' post fix to identify that IIRC) for the design...Controlled warm up tubes would warm up in sync IIRC by sensing heater current so no tube would be momentarily taking a bigger portion of the voltage than designed.

A thermistor or dropping resistor would not hurt, but is not essential either IMO.

Crist Rigott
12-12-2016, 07:22 PM
They probably selected "controlled warm up" tubes (octals often had a 'GTA' or 'GTB' post fix to identify that IIRC) for the design...Controlled warm up tubes would warm up in sync IIRC by sensing heater current so no tube would be momentarily taking a bigger portion of the voltage than designed.

A thermistor or dropping resistor would not hurt, but is not essential either IMO.

Makes sense. Thanks Tom.

Crist Rigott
12-14-2016, 01:46 AM
I have decided to wire the TV like the kits shows. I will use safety caps where needed and I replaced the Selenium rectifier with a 2 lug terminal strip and a 1N4007 diode. On the schematic, there looks like 300ma by the selenium rectifier. I'm guessing that either this is the rating of the rectifier or the total current draw through the rectifier. In any case a 1 amp diode exceeds those numbers by a factor of 3.

I started step 1 (Power Supply and Filament) yesterday (Monday) and finished it today (Tuesday). Some observations are in order. All-in-all the step by step instructions and the pictorial work very well and the steps are in a logical order. For instance, to wire the filament string, you start at the fuse holder then wire the first tube as in the schematic (V15), then the next wire goes to V14 and so down the filament string.

Working with 20awg solid hook-up wire can be a bit trying especially on the small 7 pin tube sockets. Those terminals are fragile! No mishaps yet.

The wire lengths given is the step-by-step are for the most part fairly accurate. There were about 6 wires where I changed the length by maybe an inch. One wire was 2 inches too long. So far this was the only big error in wire lengths. I'd rather have it long than too short. Of course I trimmed the wire to a more reasonable length. I routed the wires per the instruction sheet all within reason.

For R69 a 5 Ohm 5W resistor just at the minus side of the rectifier I used a 22 Ohm 10W sand resistor simply because that's what I had. Once the TV is up and running and with the 122Vac line voltage applied, then the resistor will be substituted for the correct value and wattage. Most likely be a gold chassis mount type resistor. You can see this resistor in the lower left corner of the chassis along with C54, the Safety cap.

Oh, yeah, I labeled each terminal strip, tube, and pot with small pieces of masking tape to help to ID the component location.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5430a_zpsdmleo8gm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5430a_zpsdmleo8gm.jpg.html)

dieseljeep
12-14-2016, 12:06 PM
I have decided to wire the TV like the kits shows. I will use safety caps where needed and I replaced the Selenium rectifier with a 2 lug terminal strip and a 1N4007 diode. On the schematic, there looks like 300ma by the selenium rectifier. I'm guessing that either this is the rating of the rectifier or the total current draw through the rectifier. In any case a 1 amp diode exceeds those numbers by a factor of 3.

I started step 1 yesterday (Monday) and finished it today (Tuesday). Some observations are in order. All-in-all the step by step instructions and the pictorial work very well and the steps are in a logical order. For instance, to wire the filament string, you start at the fuse holder then wire the first tube as in the schematic (V15), then the next wire goes to V14 and so down the filament string.

Working with 20awg solid hook-up wire can be a bit trying especially on the small 7 pin tube sockets. Those terminals are fragile! No mishaps yet.

The wire lengths given is the step-by-step are for the most part fairly accurate. There were about 6 wires where I changed the length by maybe an inch. One wire was 2 inches too long. So far this was the only big error in wire lengths. I'd rather have it long than too short. Of course I trimmed the wire to a more reasonable length. I routed the wires per the instruction sheet all within reason.

For R69 a 5 Ohm 5W resistor just at the minus side of the rectifier I used a 22 Ohm 10W sand resistor simply because that's what I had. Once the TV is up and running and with the 122Vac line voltage applied, then the resistor will be substituted for the correct value and wattage. Most likely be a gold chassis mount type resistor. You can see this resistor in the lower left corner of the chassis along with C54, the Safety cap.

Oh, yeah, I labeled each terminal strip, tube, and pot with small pieces of masking tape to help to ID the component location.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5430a_zpsdmleo8gm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5430a_zpsdmleo8gm.jpg.html)
I just wonder how many of those sets, that were part of a training course, were either never finished or the trainee couldn't get working.
It's a rather large undertaking for a person without the restoration, kit building and troubleshooting skills that many of us have on this forum. :scratch2:

Crist Rigott
12-14-2016, 05:55 PM
Well with the talent and help of this forum, I'm sure I'll be successful.

Crist Rigott
12-14-2016, 06:04 PM
I started on step 2 today. I came across something that I decided to change. It was a terminal strip on the IF Strip. It looks like they didn't have the correct one so they made one form 2 others. They took 2 3 position strips and soldered them together.

Also some of the terminals needed "help" as in they were full and I needed to add at least 1 wire to it. So I had the correct terminal strip on hand so I replaced the made up one.

While I have the components removed from the terminal strip, the resistors and caps will be replaced.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5431a_zpsskqwatgo.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5431a_zpsskqwatgo.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5433a_zpsgmbtzmke.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5433a_zpsgmbtzmke.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5434a_zpskldug00o.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5434a_zpskldug00o.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5436a_zpszhpgoxtj.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5436a_zpszhpgoxtj.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-15-2016, 09:34 AM
When changing out that terminal strip, I decided to replace the components attached to it. When 1 lead went to a tube socket or ground and there was another component attached there as well it got replaced. I also changed the filament wires to my brown color code.

When I replaced the caps and resistors, I checked their values. Most were very close to what they were supposed to be. All the cap values checked good but a couple of the resistors were out of tolerance.

As my usual practice all film and electrolytic caps get replaced. With this done on the IF strip , I'm ready to resume with instruction sheet 2.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5447a_zpsjgow6ir9.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5447a_zpsjgow6ir9.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5448a_zpsc08f9mlr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5448a_zpsc08f9mlr.jpg.html)

dieseljeep
12-15-2016, 11:03 AM
I like your soldering job a lot better than the ones that built the IF strip.
It looks like they used 50/50 solder.
BTW, the new terminal strip you used are getting hard to get, as time goes by.

N2IXK
12-15-2016, 04:06 PM
Nice work!

The soldering on the pre-assembled portions of kits is often pretty lousy, IME.

The Heathkit color set that I put together this year had several melted wires, dropped solder blobs, a broken terminal strip, and an unsoldered connection in the high voltage module. :thumbsdn:

I also have a Heathkit frequency counter in my shop that was factory assembled (SM-2420). I got it really cheap because it wasn't working due to several cold solder joints....

dtvmcdonald
12-15-2016, 09:59 PM
The terminal strips are merely getting hidden away. Mouser has them,
just go to Keystone Electronics under manufacturers, then terminals.
Then restrict to lug terminals and go beyond the first page.

Crist Rigott
12-15-2016, 10:34 PM
Thanks guys for the nice comments.

Crist Rigott
12-15-2016, 10:41 PM
I just finished Step 2 (Audio and Video Output) of 6.

I did a minor mod when mounting the audio output transformer. It looks like they provide holes for the transformer but the chassis hole the primary wires go through would be off center and the wires would have to do a quick 90 degree turn then about 1/2 do another 90 degree turn down through the hole. That ain't happening on my watch! What I did was put the wires through the hole straight down and mark the chassis for another mounting hole. I drilled for a 8-32 screw and used some NOS 8-32 hex head screws, washers, lock washers and nuts. Much better and it looks right.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5449a_zpsqd9dyiua.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5449a_zpsqd9dyiua.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5456a_zps7nqz0kqk.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5456a_zps7nqz0kqk.jpg.html)

Then in one of the steps they want you to wire the speaker via 12" wires to the terminal strip. Too much left to do to finish this thing to have a speaker hanging by some wires. I did think that a disconnect pug would work great especially when I mount the thing in a cabinet. Here's my question. Does anybody know where I can get a period correct disconnect? We're talking mid 50's here.

Crist Rigott
12-15-2016, 11:01 PM
I followed the instruction sheet pretty much step-by-step. When I ran a wire or installed a component, I highlighted it on a copy of the instruction sheet. I didn't have the .0047uf film cap yet so I just skipped that step. Also I removed the twin lead from the tuner and chassis because it was in the way and getting beat up from handling the chassis. I removed it a while ago.

I do have question and that is there are 2 peaking coils that I installed. A black dot and a red dot. When I installed them to the terminal strips and tube socket, I installed them a little higher up than I normally would think. I remember always seeing these coils mounted higher than the other components. So I did the same. They are about 1/2" higher than the top on the terminal on the terminal strip. Any comments?

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5474a_zpshmrzohdv.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5474a_zpshmrzohdv.jpg.html)

C52, C57, and C62 were all safety caps, rather than the paper caps called out in the instruction sheet.

Here are some general photos of where I am.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5461a_zpsxkq9gnxb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5461a_zpsxkq9gnxb.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5462a_zpsqle9shdj.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5462a_zpsqle9shdj.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5467a_zpsd4mojgg4.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5467a_zpsd4mojgg4.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5470a_zpsw24sso6y.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5470a_zpsw24sso6y.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5477a_zpsmimf8ntj.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5477a_zpsmimf8ntj.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-15-2016, 11:58 PM
Here is something I ran across that I could use some comments on.

The schematic on V6 the 12BY7A tube, a wire shown connected to pin 9 and then a comma and then 3. I think this wire (B-) goes to both pins 9 and 3. At least according to the schematic.

On the instruction sheet 2 there is no mention to run the jumper from pin 9 to pin 3 nor does the pictorial on the same sheet shows it. I'm guessing that the instruction sheet missed that little jumper. Or did they? Is it needed?

I looked at an Emerson schematic which closely resembles this TV and sure enough, the wire goes to both pins 9 and 3.

Should I put in that jumper?

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5479a_zpsenunxjul.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5479a_zpsenunxjul.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5478a_zpso8rvocly.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5478a_zpso8rvocly.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 12:29 AM
I just found out that pins 3 and 9 are jumpered in the tube. Nothing else goes to pin 9 so no jumper is needed to be added.

The instruction sheet and the schematic were both correct.

Findm-Keepm
12-16-2016, 09:02 AM
Looking good, and you are learning something new everyday! Envious...

Electronic M
12-16-2016, 09:24 AM
Then in one of the steps they want you to wire the speaker via 12" wires to the terminal strip. Too much left to do to finish this thing to have a speaker hanging by some wires. I did think that a disconnect pug would work great especially when I mount the thing in a cabinet. Here's my question. Does anybody know where I can get a period correct disconnect? We're talking mid 50's here.

IIRC I have a 40's Philco speaker mount plug and socket among my parts...It would be an item that someone making that kit back in the day would have in their junk box or get from a parts store...If I can find it then it will be available.

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 10:29 AM
Looking good, and you are learning something new everyday! Envious...

Yeah, I am.

Already I have a better understanding and appreciation for the factory worker who assembled TV's in the 50's!

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 10:29 AM
IIRC I have a 40's Philco speaker mount plug and socket among my parts...It would be an item that someone making that kit back in the day would have in their junk box or get from a parts store...If I can find it then it will be available.

Thanks Tom. I'll keep you in mind. Much appreciated.

WISCOJIM
12-16-2016, 10:32 AM
Is this mis-labeled? Two controls marked R55A?

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5461a_zpsxkq9gnxb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5461a_zpsxkq9gnxb.jpg.html)[/URL]

Findm-Keepm
12-16-2016, 10:41 AM
Yeah, I am.

Already I have a better understanding and appreciation for the factory worker who assembled TV's in the 50's!

They typically did the same 1, 2 or 3 functions - you're mimicking the whole dang factory! :D

bandersen
12-16-2016, 10:53 AM
Nice job so far. Fun to follow along while I'm stuck at work :)

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 11:32 AM
Is this mis-labeled? Two controls marked R55A?

Wow, you're right. I must have been asleep at the wheel. The far left R55A should be R35A. The "A" or "F" is for fore or aft to help ID which section of the dual section pot. I'll correct that next time in the shop.

7 Grand kids over here for the day!

dieseljeep
12-16-2016, 11:32 AM
Looking good, and you are learning something new everyday! Envious...
His attention to detail still impresses me! I used to be almost that good. :scratch2:
I think, he's teaching some of us old dogs, new tricks.
RE: the speaker connector, many sets of the day, just used RCA phono jacks and plugs.

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 11:33 AM
Nice job so far. Fun to follow along while I'm stuck at work :)

Thank you Bob.

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 03:32 PM
They typically did the same 1, 2 or 3 functions - you're mimicking the whole dang factory! :D

Yeah, I think what it takes to get one of these into production. Every single step has to be built in, workers trained, QC, and testing, parts suppliers...Whew!

Though I do think I'm having more fun though!

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 03:33 PM
His attention to detail still impresses me! I used to be almost that good. :scratch2:
I think, he's teaching some of us old dogs, new tricks.
RE: the speaker connector, many sets of the day, just used RCA phono jacks and plugs.

Thanks for the kind words.

Great idea on using a RCA phono jack and plug!

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 03:37 PM
I'm working on setting up a file sharing system so you guys can down load the full set of documents including the 6 step-by-step instruction sheets, the step-by-step instruction sheet for the IF Strip, the Instruction Booklet, a large copy of the schematic, Supplementary sheet, and any other document that came with the kit. Eventually, I'd like to get the docs to the ETF.

Crist Rigott
12-16-2016, 04:31 PM
OK. I uploaded all the docs that came with the kit. They are:

Instruction Sheets 1 thru 6. Full size 17x12
IF Strip Instruction Sheet. Full size 17x22
Schematic 11x17
Instruction Booklet
Parts List
Supplementary Sheet

You should be able to DL all the files I put there. CAUTION! Some of the files are about 7MB each. They are high def files.

Let me know how this is working for you.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v5ow2i7x8tzyaew/AACnMMEA0tqkPpeNrbUlywh3a?dl=0

Once at the file list, click on the file, then when it opens, click on "open" in the upper R/H corner of the screen. It should open as a pdf. Then click save as and save the file.

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 12:22 AM
I finished step 3 (Sync Section) this evening. I'm still waiting on some .0047uf film caps so I couldn't install C27 yet. I think the caps will be here on Saturday. Things went pretty well. It got pretty tight on V10 with 3 resistors and 2 caps on 3 terminals. Anyway here is an overall view so far and then a close up of the area worked.


http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5492a_zpsezidbyrr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5492a_zpsezidbyrr.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5493a_zpskjewnkc6.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5493a_zpskjewnkc6.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 10:21 AM
Between the 6 Instruction Sheets and the IF Strip Instruction Sheet, there are 280 individual steps!

103 have been completed.

dieseljeep
12-17-2016, 11:57 AM
Between the 6 Instruction Sheets and the IF Strip Instruction Sheet, there are 280 individual steps!

103 have been completed.

A slightly related question?
Were did you source your replacement parts, all from Radio Daze? I really like the resistors you're using. The caps are similar to the ones from Jim's Antique Radios, they seem alright!
BTW, I wrap and crimp the component leads very much the same way you do before soldering. I was taught, "Mechanically and Electrically Secure".
A buddy asked, "Why do you do it that way, it's overkill". IF it's soldered properly, you don't have to do that. :scratch2:

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 01:19 PM
A slightly related question?
Were did you source your replacement parts, all from Radio Daze? I really like the resistors you're using. The caps are similar to the ones from Jim's Antique Radios, they seem alright!
BTW, I wrap and crimp the component leads very much the same way you do before soldering. I was taught, "Mechanically and Electrically Secure".
A buddy asked, "Why do you do it that way, it's overkill". IF it's soldered properly, you don't have to do that. :scratch2:

I get my parts from Just Radios. Both caps and resistors. Good stuff. Sometimes I get caps from Sals. Good stuff too. I like using the 1W resistors because the leads are thicker and stronger than the 1/2W ones. I like Just Radios because I can get film caps, mica caps, e-caps, resistors, spaghetti tubing, heat shrink tubing all in one stop. I get some stuff like Nichicon e-caps, chassis mount resistors from Digikey

On the lead wrapping stuff. That's the way I've always done it. I have a background in the Avionics installation and repair and we always wrap the lead or wire for that extra security. It is overkill on these TV's but I think wrapping the lead also holds it in place till the other components are attached or till it's soldered.

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 08:15 PM
I finished step 4 (Vertical Oscillator & Output). This step had 39 steps. Things went very well. I lengthened 1 wire by 2 inches. My .0047uf caps did not come in today so I couldn't install C29.

One thing I noticed is that the pre-made CRT connector and yoke wires are too long. Tonight I'll see how long they are and maybe adjust their length. I'll let you know what I found.

Here is an overall picture after step 4.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5496a_zpsdfsfzq00.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5496a_zpsdfsfzq00.jpg.html)

Followed by some close ups of the area.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5498a_zps6uxf9cgs.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5498a_zps6uxf9cgs.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5503a_zps5dmjwlvv.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5503a_zps5dmjwlvv.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5505a_zpscmfnt252.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5505a_zpscmfnt252.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 09:15 PM
OK, first up is the CRT wiring length.

Here is how long it is as of right now.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5508a_zpshky5jzme.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5508a_zpshky5jzme.jpg.html)

Here I am measuring 6 inches to shorten the harness by.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5509a_zpspi9h6nqx.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5509a_zpspi9h6nqx.jpg.html)

Here is the harness pushed into the chassis 6 inches.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5510a_zpslnpi025w.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5510a_zpslnpi025w.jpg.html)
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5512a_zpsoxj4kj89.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5512a_zpsoxj4kj89.jpg.html)

It looks like I can shorten the harness by 6 inches and still have plenty of slack. Comments anybody?

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 09:23 PM
Next up is the yoke harness.

Here is a picture that shows how long it as of right now.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5514a_zpsrhhshwqg.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5514a_zpsrhhshwqg.jpg.html)

Here I am measuring 6 inches to shorten the harness by.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5517a_zpsewkrv3wh.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5517a_zpsewkrv3wh.jpg.html)

And the harness pushed into the chassis 6 inches.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5516a_zpsnz5ckvvx.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5516a_zpsnz5ckvvx.jpg.html)

So what do you think?

Findm-Keepm
12-17-2016, 09:30 PM
Man, with a beautiful chassis like that you'd better sign that chassis when you are done - it's "art" for sure. Use a paint pen, no wimpy Sharpie....

Electronic M
12-17-2016, 10:05 PM
If you ever fall in love with an empty cabinet that needs the CRT mounted separate from the chassis the extra lead length could come in handy.

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 10:11 PM
Man, with a beautiful chassis like that you'd better sign that chassis when you are done - it's "art" for sure. Use a paint pen, no wimpy Sharpie....

Yeah, it is nice. Thanks.

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 10:12 PM
If you ever fall in love with an empty cabinet that needs the CRT mounted separate from the chassis the extra lead length could come in handy.

That's right, I forgot about that option. Thanks.

Blast
12-17-2016, 10:26 PM
Enjoying this thread. Very cool! Good luck with your build.

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 10:46 PM
Enjoying this thread. Very cool! Good luck with your build.

I'm glad you're following along. That's why so many pictures and details.

Thanks.

Crist Rigott
12-17-2016, 10:48 PM
Tom got me thinking about keeping the long wires. So I came up with this solution:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/100_5520a_zpsxzwxw7vr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/100_5520a_zpsxzwxw7vr.jpg.html)

Now, my big question is having both the CRT and yoke wires with a coil in them will that affect the quality of the picture? Anybody know?

Thanks.

Findm-Keepm
12-18-2016, 02:05 AM
Probably not - no significant inductance or capacitance generated - if it was color, perhaps, but B/W, no. Think about Predictas - CRT/Yoke had some pretty long interconnect cables......

Jon A.
12-18-2016, 11:39 AM
Man, with a beautiful chassis like that you'd better sign that chassis when you are done - it's "art" for sure. Use a paint pen, no wimpy Sharpie....
That makes me think, Heathkit TVs should have had "builder's signature" etched into the chassis instead of a signature line on the build sticker... :scratch2:

timmy
12-19-2016, 09:42 AM
Really nice clean job.

Findm-Keepm
12-19-2016, 11:19 AM
That makes me think, Heathkit TVs should have had "builder's signature" etched into the chassis instead of a signature line on the build sticker... :scratch2:

Some of those "kit" cars that used a VW chassis to make an old roadster actually came with a bottle of champagne for when you were finished....

Similarly, my "How to keep your 73-77 Honda Civic/CVCC Civic alive" book had a section on opening a champagne bottle (the last step after an engine rebuild......)

Some KnightKits come with a "Built By" label - I had a Knight power suplly that was built from a kit, and had to rebuild a lot of it - I found the label on the chassis, buried under parts installed in the first steps..

Findm-Keepm
12-19-2016, 11:20 AM
Really nice clean job.

Ditto. Chris, great job. :thmbsp:

Electronic M
12-19-2016, 11:20 AM
IIRC I have a 40's Philco speaker mount plug and socket among my parts...It would be an item that someone making that kit back in the day would have in their junk box or get from a parts store...If I can find it then it will be available.

I did find it. It is similar to your yoke plug. I'll post a picture if your interested.

Electronic M
12-19-2016, 11:23 AM
Some of those "kit" cars that used a VW chassis to make an old roadster actually came with a bottle of champagne for when you were finished....


To celebrate or christen/dent it? :D

Crist Rigott
12-19-2016, 05:05 PM
Thanks guys for the kind words. Maybe I'll make a brass plate and attach it to the chassis.

Crist Rigott
12-19-2016, 05:05 PM
I did find it. It is similar to your yoke plug. I'll post a picture if your interested.

Yes, please! Thanks.

Crist Rigott
12-19-2016, 05:17 PM
I finished step 5 (Horizontal Oscillator) late last night. I had to lengthen a white wire from 18" to 27" and from 4" to 6". Everything else went ok. Some of the area got pretty tight.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5538a_zpskpfxdyxn.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5538a_zpskpfxdyxn.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5540a_zpsy2q8owqu.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5540a_zpsy2q8owqu.jpg.html)

N2IXK
12-19-2016, 05:42 PM
Nice work! Set is really coming along....

Crist Rigott
12-19-2016, 05:48 PM
This morning I decided to make a couple of mods to the build.

The first one was to T5 the Synchrogiude Transformer. When mounted to the chassis, the terminals were rotated 90 degrees and then they didn't match the instruction sheet.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5523a_zpso0ksyfkl.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5523a_zpso0ksyfkl.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5524a_zpsuorsxzzv.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5524a_zpsuorsxzzv.jpg.html)

Now I had already wired it in but decided that I could turn the guts 90 degrees to match the instruction sheet. After un-soldering the components and removing the transformer, I pried open the case by rolling the edges back even with the sides of the case. I then removed the coil and its base.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5547a_zpsmpee9n9d.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5547a_zpsmpee9n9d.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5546a_zpsgb0vyvsm.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5546a_zpsgb0vyvsm.jpg.html)

I then turned the top metal "clip" 90 degrees to match the instruction sheet. I then inserted the coils back in the case and rolled the bottom edge back over using a small dowel. Now the transformer matches the instruction sheet. I then reinstalled the components.

Crist Rigott
12-19-2016, 06:20 PM
The other mod was to the two big caps that have a 90 degree bend on their right hand lead. I really didn't like that too much. So I added another terminal strip to terminate those leads. I cut off the end of a terminal strip and mounted it using an existing terminal strip hardware.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5538a_zpskpfxdyxn.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5538a_zpskpfxdyxn.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5550a_zps8wxgusgw.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5550a_zps8wxgusgw.jpg.html)

Then I re-did those capacitors.

Much better now!

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5552a_zpskoh08wkb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5552a_zpskoh08wkb.jpg.html)

The last redo was to the 150K resistor next to the up and down terminal strip on the left hand side (TB12). I had to add a longer lead length because it went to another terminal strip. Look closely.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5550a_zps8wxgusgw.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5550a_zps8wxgusgw.jpg.html)

I checked the rest of the instruction sheets and a couple of terminals weren't going to be used on TB13. So I ran the resistor from TB12 terminal strip to the new location TB13 and added a jumper between TB13 and TB14.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5552a_zpskoh08wkb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5552a_zpskoh08wkb.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-19-2016, 06:47 PM
And finally an over all view after step 5.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5553a_zpsmtiojarh.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5553a_zpsmtiojarh.jpg.html)

dieseljeep
12-20-2016, 11:04 AM
Tom got me thinking about keeping the long wires. So I came up with this solution:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/100_5520a_zpsxzwxw7vr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/100_5520a_zpsxzwxw7vr.jpg.html)

Now, my big question is having both the CRT and yoke wires with a coil in them will that affect the quality of the picture? Anybody know?

Thanks.
I seems like past practice to keep the yellow wire separate from the rest.
I see you still use the time-proven method of using lacing cord instead of zip ties. That's when craftsmen still cared.
I see more of those strange Chinese names on the caps, but they seem to be good caps. :thmbsp:

Crist Rigott
12-20-2016, 11:16 AM
dieseljeep,

Yeah, I still like lacing cord. It's a hold over from when I used to do avionic installations. The only time I used Ty-Raps was when attaching the harness to the airframe, if the OEM did the same. Otherwise it was Adel clamps.

Yup, I'll "break out" the yellow wire from the rest of the harness.

I got the caps, that I missed with my order from Just radios, from Sal's Capacitors. Very vice caps indeed.

Crist Rigott
12-20-2016, 01:49 PM
I worked on step 6 (Horizontal Output and H.V.). I'm almost done wiring. Step 6 went ok also. I did not quite go step-by-step because I wanted to wire up what was down near the chassis before I installed the flyback transformer. It was much easier to do it that way. All I have left is to wire up the HV lead to the CRT and the power cord.

Here are some pics.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5564a_zpsetttb0ax.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5564a_zpsetttb0ax.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5566a_zpsu61n1ywj.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5566a_zpsu61n1ywj.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5562a_zps5r3wiosy.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5562a_zps5r3wiosy.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-20-2016, 05:57 PM
Here is the HV lead going to the CRT. I used some 20KV wire and a connector and boot from an old color portable TV gotten free from the curb. I replaced the 40KV wire with my 20KV wire and put the 470K resistor in line like the instruction sheet had shown. I double heat shrunk the whole assembly. I also replaced the 20awg standard hook up wire from the 1X2A rectifier tube to the door knob capacitor because it was carrying full HV with the same 20KV wire. The terminal on the tube socket was also double heat shrunk.

I know the instruction sheet shows the resistor directly connected to the door knob cap connector, but I thought using a small piece of 20KV wire which is stranded, it would hold up better to any movement.

What do you think? I'd prefer that the resistor was hard mounted to some phenolic or terminal strip but it does look like it'll work. I'm including a picture of the portion of the instruction sheet.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5572a_zpsb6rlefsa.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5572a_zpsb6rlefsa.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5581a_zpsn9isacas.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5581a_zpsn9isacas.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-20-2016, 06:14 PM
Here's is another "kooky" thing about this kit.

They talk about "Insert a polyethylene sleeve over the 1X2 tube and socket." on instruction sheet 6 after all the steps have been completed.

Here are a couple of pics of the supplied sleeve and the note on the instruction sheet.

I'm guessing that the sleeve it there to prevent a shock to service people rather than to prevent arc over. Could be both though.

The sleeve reminds me of the container we used to get aviation spark plugs in. I'm thinking I have to cut the crimped end off and just slide the rest in place. No mention as to how it is secured.

Could I just double heat shrink each tube socket terminal and accomplish the same thing? Is there any other way that I could use?

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5580a_zpsvxungkkn.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5580a_zpsvxungkkn.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5576a_zpsf3iwlar3.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5576a_zpsf3iwlar3.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5582a_zpszpd4cing.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5582a_zpszpd4cing.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-20-2016, 09:13 PM
OK, I cut the crimped end off of the sleeve and slid it home. Then I tied it off with some lacing cord. Not as goofy as I thought. It has to be used to prevent arc over because the HV is exposed on the end of the door knob cap.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5588a_zpsktvvl4sa.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5588a_zpsktvvl4sa.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5585a_zpsntsua26l.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5585a_zpsntsua26l.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5583a_zpsbk5ufnbp.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5583a_zpsbk5ufnbp.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-21-2016, 01:25 AM
Wahoo!

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5591a_zpsdpx5a20b.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5591a_zpsdpx5a20b.jpg.html)

kvflyer
12-21-2016, 08:09 AM
Kinda looks as though it works! Congratulations, nice work.

Crist Rigott
12-21-2016, 10:40 PM
Thanks KV.

Crist Rigott
12-21-2016, 10:48 PM
OK, first problem.

I can't get the CRT into good focus. The yoke is pushed all the way forward up on the CRT. This is an aluminized tube so no ION Trap.

HV is shown at 11KV on my unreliable HV probe.

I did notice this statement from the GE datasheet for a 21FP4/A/C, the CRT I'm using is a 21FP4C. It states having a minimum resistance on Pin 6 (Focus) and Pin 10 (Grid 2 B++). See attached photo. This TV does not have a minimum resistance on pin 6. it goes directly to B-. Should I have at least a 100K resistor in there?

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5594a_zpsnfymils1.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5594a_zpsnfymils1.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5595a_zpsipx8qfr1.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5595a_zpsipx8qfr1.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 12:33 AM
At another persons suggestion, I tried taking pin 6 (Focus) from B- to B+ 130v and to B++ 300V with no joy.

old_coot88
12-22-2016, 11:15 AM
Compliments once again on your outstanding workmanship sir.:yes: But offhand, it seems a minimalist, low-B+ design chassis trying to drive a large CRT is not going to deliver optimum performance, particularly with only 11KV on the anode (if your HV meter is correct).

Try this for a moment.. short out the resistor feeding G2 (screen grid) of the 25CD6 to raise G2 voltage a bit. See if this improves HV, width and focus at all. If it does, it suggests that a higher B+ supply voltage on the H output/damper circuit would improve performance. If it doesn't, then maybe a smaller CRT would work better with this chassis.

dieseljeep
12-22-2016, 11:51 AM
Compliments once again on your outstanding workmanship sir.:yes: But offhand, it seems a minimalist, low-B+ design chassis trying to drive a large CRT is not going to deliver optimum performance, particularly with only 11KV on the anode (if your HV meter is correct).

Try this for a moment.. short out the resistor feeding G2 (screen grid) of the 25CD6 to raise G2 voltage a bit. See if this improves HV, width and focus at all. If it does, it suggests that a higher B+ supply voltage on the H output/damper circuit would improve performance. If it doesn't, then maybe a smaller CRT would work better with this chassis.

All good points!
I would only halve the G2 resistor, another one in parallel.
All the low B+ larger screen sets I worked on, seemed to use a 25DN6 instead of a 25CD6. IIRC, Sylvania designed the tube for that purpose. It looks like the tube in your set is the old style 25CD6G. After the resistor trick, the first thing I would try is a 25DN6. :thmbsp:

old_coot88
12-22-2016, 01:02 PM
Actually the 25CD6 and 6CD6 are identical except for heater ratings.
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/457072aaf6f581403bf033bc488bc5a3319916/O/6cd6

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 01:41 PM
All good points!
I would only halve the G2 resistor, another one in parallel.
All the low B+ larger screen sets I worked on, seemed to use a 25DN6 instead of a 25CD6. IIRC, Sylvania designed the tube for that purpose. It looks like the tube in your set is the old style 25CD6G. After the resistor trick, the first thing I would try is a 25DN6. :thmbsp:

Thanks guys for the suggestions.

I tried another 470 Ohm resistor paralleled with R63 which is connected to pin 8 of the 25CD6. No joy then I added another resistor in parallel and still no joy.

The schematic does list a 25DN6 in parenthesis next to 25CD6.

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 01:43 PM
I have the proper HV probe to go with my VTVM on order. It'll be here within the week. then I'll know for sure what the HV really is.

old_coot88
12-22-2016, 03:45 PM
If nothing else pans out, I would try this as 'proof of concept' for raising B+ voltage feeding the H.sweep circuit: String a few 9V batteries in series, and put this in series with the +130V going to the plate of the damper tube.

If raising B+ improves HV, focus, and width, then consider building a small dedicated supply to put in place of the batteries.

Just a thought. :nerd:

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 04:30 PM
I thought I'd do a voltage check according to the schematic. I found some voltages out of wack!

I started with V15 Vert. Output and went down. Here's what I found. First volt listed is what the schematic says, the second is what was measured.

V15 Vert. Output -
3 Plate 125V - 119V
4 G2 130V - 129V
8 Cathode 17V - 15V

V14 Vert. Osc. & Sync Limiter
5 Plate 130V - 55V

V13 Horiz. Damper
3 Cathode 350V - HIGH VOLTAGE! Blew out my MM which was set at 1000VDC

V12 Horiz. Output
5 G1 -25V - -22V
8 G2 125V - 120V

V11 Horiz. OSC. & Phase Det.
1 G1 -46V - -41V
2 Plate 155v - 142V
4 G2 20 - -9V
6 Cathode -10V - -6V

V15 looks good
V14 Plate voltage is low
V13 Wow, blew out my MM
V12 looks good
V11 Pin 4 G2 voltage is wrong

Electronic M
12-22-2016, 04:58 PM
Anything in 30% tolerance is fine/normal in most sets. You may have touched the wrong damper pin...One normally has meter killing HV on it.

old_coot88
12-22-2016, 06:37 PM
You'd think the kit maker woulda pasted on a hazard warning in big red letters "Do not attempt to measure plate of H.out tube or cathode of damper tube", since there's a very high level spike there.

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 10:00 PM
I hear ya! My inexperience showed up on that one. The schematic shows to have 350 volts on pin 3 of V13 12AX4 the Damper tube.

Still a bit puzzled as to why that would happen and especially when the schematic says 350 volts.

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 10:02 PM
I thought I'd try direct video injection. I injected the video signal directly into pin 2 of the 12BY7A amp. The picture got only slightly better, but still way out of focus.

bandersen
12-22-2016, 10:14 PM
What voltage do you have on G2?

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 10:16 PM
What voltage do you have on G2?

Which tube? On the CRT G2 is pin 10 and that has 301 volts as I let the TV play right now.

Crist Rigott
12-22-2016, 10:29 PM
Another thought just occurred to me. When I was doing the voltage checks, the tubes were installed. Could the 350 volt marking on the schematic meant with the tubes removed? Though I don't see how you can get some voltages without them being installed. Just thinking out loud.

old_coot88
12-22-2016, 11:22 PM
Another thought just occurred to me. When I was doing the voltage checks, the tubes were installed. Could the 350 volt marking on the schematic meant with the tubes removed? Though I don't see how you can get some voltages without them being installed. Just thinking out loud.
Well, if the 12AX4 were removed, you wouldn't have any voltage on pin 3 (cathode) because it would break the DC current pathway for B+ to the rest of the H.sweep circuit. (Besides, with the tube removed, the other tubes won't light because it's a series heater string.)

The 350V is the raw, unfiltered B Boost voltage, and you sure as heck don't want to measure it at the damper cathode (!). If the kit maker actually measured it there, they were using a beefy old analog meter with mechanical movement that smoothed out the high level spike. And they were highly negligent in not posting a hazard warning.

bandersen
12-23-2016, 01:00 AM
...This is an aluminized tube so no ION Trap.

Just because it's aluminized doesn't mean it doesn't need an ion trap magnet. The data sheet says you need a single ion trap magnet. Don't see any exception mentioned for the "C" version. Also is it a rebuild ? If so, it might have a straight or bent gun.

Crist Rigott
12-23-2016, 01:07 AM
Just because it's aluminized doesn't mean it doesn't need an ion trap magnet. The data sheet says you need a single ion trap magnet. Don't see any exception mentioned for the "C" version. Also is it a rebuild ? If so, it might have a straight or bent gun.

Bob, yes it is a rebuild. It does have a straight gun and it has 2 labels warning not to use an ION trap.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5384a_zpsclvdlvj0.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5384a_zpsclvdlvj0.jpg.html)

bandersen
12-23-2016, 01:14 AM
OK, they sure made that clear! I'm out of ideas except low HV.

Crist Rigott
12-23-2016, 01:24 AM
OK, they sure made that clear! I'm out of ideas except low HV.

Appreciate the help and your videos.

Crist Rigott
12-23-2016, 09:17 AM
At the suggestion of someone, I wired in a 2 meg pot to take the focus electrode, pin 6 of the CRT, from ground to 300 volts. I did and that didn't help at all. I also checked to be sure I had continuity from the CRT harness to the CRT base when the connector was plugged to the CRT. That checked good.

Maybe a broken focus wire from the base to the bulb?

dieseljeep
12-23-2016, 11:04 AM
At the suggestion of someone, I wired in a 2 meg pot to take the focus electrode, pin 6 of the CRT, from ground to 300 volts. I did and that didn't help at all. I also checked to be sure I had continuity from the CRT harness to the CRT base when the connector was plugged to the CRT. That checked good.

Maybe a broken focus wire from the base to the bulb?
I've seen the e'stat tubes focus well without anything connected to pin 6.
Being a newcomer to the hobby, you don't have access to any of the junk us collectors have, such as another, smaller CRT or maybe a magnetic focus unit.
I know, the gun structure is different on a e'stat focus tube but maybe a magnetic focalizer would help.
BTW, that's the focus look like on the 5AXP4 test tube. :scratch2:

Crist Rigott
12-23-2016, 08:09 PM
I've seen the e'stat tubes focus well without anything connected to pin 6.
Being a newcomer to the hobby, you don't have access to any of the junk us collectors have, such as another, smaller CRT or maybe a magnetic focus unit.
I know, the gun structure is different on a e'stat focus tube but maybe a magnetic focalizer would help.
BTW, that's the focus look like on the 5AXP4 test tube. :scratch2:

The focus on the 5AXP4 is much better.

Electronic M
12-24-2016, 09:05 PM
Yes, please! Thanks.

After much futzing with a bad SD card; pictures at last!

https://c8.staticflickr.com/1/440/31737741671_bcf964ecf0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/QmydSB) https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/525/31044465633_58a43253fa_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Pii14t) https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/701/31706962082_9db8de41ab_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/QiQtb3) https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/417/31044481513_060335060b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Pii5Mg)

The audio output transformer is not for sale, and will be trimmed off. The side with the transformer once mounted to a defunct speaker. If you don't want the cloth wire on the other end, then I'd like to keep that wire.

I'd do an even trade for that HV connector/cable you did not use that came with your kit.

PM me if interested.

Crist Rigott
12-24-2016, 11:24 PM
Thanks for the pictures. Let me think about it for a while. If I did get it, I wouldn't need any wires and such. Just the connectors.

Crist Rigott
12-24-2016, 11:26 PM
I've had a lot of suggestions from people on the ARF. While good suggestions, there is still no joy.

Everybody's help is appreciated and together we'll get to the bottom of this.

I think what I'll do next is to change out the rest of the caps and resistors that is left to do in the IF strip. Then look at the alignment procedure that is given in the instruction booklet and see if that will help. In the meantime, I might be able to round up another CRT that I could try. Another thing that is on my mind is to remove the CRT base and closely inspect and redo the leads going through the pins in the base.

I should have a good HV probe to go with my Knight KG-625 VTVM in a few days so then I'll know where I stand with the HV.

I just might need a smaller CRT. We'll see.

With Christmas here, my time in the shop will be limited for a bit.

With that I'd like to wish everybody a Merry Christmas.

dieseljeep
12-25-2016, 08:27 PM
The focus on the 5AXP4 is much better.

Boost the line voltage another 10 volts or so. See what the focus and brightness looks like then. You installed E'caps, that were rated for higher B+ so no worry.
I just looked at an old Sylvania tube manual for the specs on the 21FP4 and it shows the focus voltage, rated between -200 to 1KV on pin 6. I don't remember seeing, that kind of voltage used for E'stat focusing. It was always between ground and boost. :scratch2:

old_coot88
12-25-2016, 08:59 PM
Boost the line voltage another 10 volts or so.
And if that shows promise, consider sticking a few 9V batteries in series in the B+ line feeding the H.out circuit. That would give it even more grunt, B Boost and HV without overstressing the heater string.

This would at least give a yes/no whether raising B+ further on the H.out circuit would help.

The battery string would go in the B+ line feeding the plate (pin 5) of the 12AX4. If it helps, then consider building a small dedicated supply in place of the batteries.

Just a thought FWIW.

old_coot88
12-25-2016, 09:25 PM
P.S. If you're interested in trying the 9V battery trick, I have a ton of them which are pulls from smoke detectors in my building. They are Mallory Duracell and all test well into the green on a standard batt. tester. The pulls are always good since they're changed on one-year interval.
Free for postage. PM me if interested. Bill

Crist Rigott
12-25-2016, 09:47 PM
Here is a video of the picture quality. The picture is a lot more focused just after turn on but then looses focus after that. Watch the SUN day of the weather to see what I mean.

https://youtu.be/DXsw8_pofTA

Crist Rigott
12-25-2016, 09:50 PM
Boost the line voltage another 10 volts or so. See what the focus and brightness looks like then. You installed E'caps, that were rated for higher B+ so no worry.
I just looked at an old Sylvania tube manual for the specs on the 21FP4 and it shows the focus voltage, rated between -200 to 1KV on pin 6. I don't remember seeing, that kind of voltage used for E'stat focusing. It was always between ground and boost. :scratch2:

I could boost the line voltage by 10 volts. Would that hurt the filament string?

Crist Rigott
12-25-2016, 09:53 PM
And if that shows promise, consider sticking a few 9V batteries in series in the B+ line feeding the H.out circuit. That would give it even more grunt, B Boost and HV without overstressing the heater string.

This would at least give a yes/no whether raising B+ further on the H.out circuit would help.

The battery string would go in the B+ line feeding the plate (pin 5) of the 12AX4. If it helps, then consider building a small dedicated supply in place of the batteries.

Just a thought FWIW.

OK, it's worth a try. What, like 27 to 36 volts?

Crist Rigott
12-25-2016, 09:53 PM
P.S. If you're interested in trying the 9V battery trick, I have a ton of them which are pulls from smoke detectors in my building. They are Mallory Duracell and all test well into the green on a standard batt. tester. The pulls are always good since they're changed on one-year interval.
Free for postage. PM me if interested. Bill

Stand by for preliminary tests.

old_coot88
12-25-2016, 10:10 PM
Here is a video of the picture quality.
https://youtu.be/DXsw8_pofTA
The raster shows some 'hourglassing' from powerline ripple causing the slow bend on the sides that drifts up. What's the value of the two main filter caps (right after the rectifier)? The second one may need to be bigger to get rid of the ripple.

dieseljeep
12-25-2016, 10:10 PM
I could boost the line voltage by 10 volts. Would that hurt the filament string?

I forgot to mention using a Variac. Many will put out 140 volts.
You can boost the B+ by using a 12V heater transformer, rated at around an amp, connected boost. Connect it before the rectifier and you'll just increase the B+, without increasing the heater string.

Crist Rigott
12-25-2016, 10:32 PM
The raster shows some 'hourglassing' from powerline ripple causing the slow bend on the sides that drifts up. What's the value of the two main filter caps (right after the rectifier)? The second one may need to be bigger to get rid of the ripple.

Both are 220uf

Crist Rigott
12-25-2016, 10:33 PM
I forgot to mention using a Variac. Many will put out 140 volts.
You can boost the B+ by using a 12V heater transformer, rated at around an amp, connected boost. Connect it before the rectifier and you'll just increase the B+, without increasing the heater string.

OK, I can do that.

Crist Rigott
12-25-2016, 11:11 PM
I forgot to mention using a Variac. Many will put out 140 volts.
You can boost the B+ by using a 12V heater transformer, rated at around an amp, connected boost. Connect it before the rectifier and you'll just increase the B+, without increasing the heater string.

OK here is what I did. I connected a 20 ohm 25W resistor in series with the heater string. This allowed me to increase the B+ from 124V to 135V. Going from 124V to 135V the picture just got bigger and not any clearer. My variac could only bring the mains up to 132vac.

dieseljeep
12-26-2016, 12:21 PM
OK here is what I did. I connected a 20 ohm 25W resistor in series with the heater string. This allowed me to increase the B+ from 124V to 135V. Going from 124V to 135V the picture just got bigger and not any clearer. My variac could only bring the mains up to 132vac.

You can alter the heater string by replacing the damper with either a 19AU4 or a 17DE4, same heater current, 600ma.
I hate to say this, I feel, there's a problem with that CRT. If there was a problem with insuffient HV, there would be blooming and a change of focus with a change brightness and contrast settings.
I would refrain from realigning the IF, until the other problem is resolved. IF alignment problems are normally exposed when turning the fine tuning and double images are shown in the picture and other IF ringing. :scratch2:

old_coot88
12-26-2016, 12:42 PM
I gotta concur, all signs thus far do point to the CRT re. the focus problem. Also, messing with video IF alignment would be like adjusting the brakes hoping to fix the carburetor. :no: And while not a big deal, there's still the hourglassing problem indicating power supply ripple.

Electronic M
12-26-2016, 08:07 PM
The hourglasing may also be from a large line transformer too near to the CRT...If you got one near the set move it away a few feet if you can.

Crist Rigott
12-26-2016, 09:39 PM
You can alter the heater string by replacing the damper with either a 19AU4 or a 17DE4, same heater current, 600ma.
I hate to say this, I feel, there's a problem with that CRT. If there was a problem with insuffient HV, there would be blooming and a change of focus with a change brightness and contrast settings.
I would refrain from realigning the IF, until the other problem is resolved. IF alignment problems are normally exposed when turning the fine tuning and double images are shown in the picture and other IF ringing. :scratch2:

Yeah, I'll hold off on the alignment. I was just looking for a change of pace.

I varied the contrast and brightness and there is a very slight change of focus, but still way bad.

Crist Rigott
12-26-2016, 09:40 PM
I gotta concur, all signs thus far do point to the CRT re. the focus problem. Also, messing with video IF alignment would be like adjusting the brakes hoping to fix the carburetor. :no: And while not a big deal, there's still the hourglassing problem indicating power supply ripple.

I was thinking of doing the IF alignment because I changed the caps and resistors of the IF strip, plus I wanted to do something a little different. Not because I think it will help my out of focus problem.

Crist Rigott
12-26-2016, 09:41 PM
The hourglasing may also be from a large line transformer too near to the CRT...If you got one near the set move it away a few feet if you can.

No line transformer near the CRT.

Crist Rigott
12-26-2016, 09:42 PM
Tomorrow I should have my HV probe for my VTVM. Only then will I know what kind of HV I have.

dieseljeep
12-27-2016, 10:16 AM
Tomorrow I should have my HV probe for my VTVM. Only then will I know what kind of HV I have.

I have the same model Knight-Kit VTVM, bought and built in 1962. I never had the HV probe.
The meter still works great. :thmbsp:

Crist Rigott
12-27-2016, 11:37 AM
I have the same model Knight-Kit VTVM, bought and built in 1962. I never had the HV probe.
The meter still works great. :thmbsp:

Cool! The probe is the Knight-Kit probe for the KG-625. :music:

dieseljeep
12-27-2016, 03:48 PM
Cool! The probe is the Knight-Kit probe for the KG-625. :music:

By the time, I needed a HV probe, I ended up buying a Pomona HV probe. It was the most common at the time. I mainly used it for color sets. :thmbsp:

Crist Rigott
12-27-2016, 11:04 PM
OK everybody.

I got my HV probe today and assembled it and hooked it up to my KG-625 VTVM. After a few minutes warm up time for both the TV and VTVM, I zeroed the VTVM and measured the HV at the door knob connection of the HV lead going to the CRT. 12Kv. I then measured at the CRT, 12Kv again. So I'm getting 12 KV at the CRT with the "stock" assembly.

Crist Rigott
12-27-2016, 11:27 PM
OK, I got a NOS Westinghouse 25DN6 and tried that instead of the 25CD6. I now have 14Kv! 2Kv by just using an alternate tube! This measurement was with the brightness turned all the down. At normal viewing levels I have 13.5Kv.

Still very unfocused.

Crist Rigott
12-28-2016, 12:11 AM
I boosted the B+ by 10 volts and picked up another 1Kv. With B+ from 124 volts to 134 volts I get another 1KV volts from 13.5Kv to 14.5Kv under normal viewing brightness.

dieseljeep
12-28-2016, 11:29 AM
I have the same model Knight-Kit VTVM, bought and built in 1962. I never had the HV probe.
The meter still works great. :thmbsp:
I did change the original probes with an Eico Uniprobe, much more convenient.
About 20 years ago, I replaced the "C" battery and rechecked the calibration.

Crist Rigott
12-28-2016, 06:33 PM
I found the focus problem...most likely.

I pulled the base off the bulb and the focus wire was broken.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5632a_zpstmnupcxg.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5632a_zpstmnupcxg.jpg.html)

Unfortunately, I broke a filament wire in the process.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5638a_zpsvonnrthn.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5638a_zpsvonnrthn.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5626a_zpsfmlub3rb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5626a_zpsfmlub3rb.jpg.html)

Electronic M
12-28-2016, 07:05 PM
It looks like they broke flush...
If you can CAREFULLY chip enough glass away from the leads to have something to solder to then you can use the really fine phono hook up wire Rat Shaq sells toconnect to the stub....I've had success with that method, but it takes a high watt iron and speed to get a good joint, without cracking the glass.

WISCOJIM
12-28-2016, 07:08 PM
It looks like they broke flush...
If you can CAREFULLY chip enough glass away from the leads to have something to solder to then you can use the really fine phono hook up wire Rat Shaq sells toconnect to the stub....I've had success with that method, but it takes a high watt iron and speed to get a good joint, without cracking the glass.

I've had luck doing the same with a Dremel rotary tool to carefully grind the glass away.

.

Eric H
12-28-2016, 07:21 PM
The Focus wire could probably be fixed with some conductive glue (rear defroster glue for instance) since it carries little current, the heater otoh will probably need a more direct connection.

dtvmcdonald
12-28-2016, 07:40 PM
I've had luck doing the same with a Dremel rotary tool to carefully grind the glass away.

.

So have I, as I described earlier. BUT PLEASE ... don't use it on a power tool.
Dangerous to your CRT!

Do it right ... go to store like Lowes or Menards and buy a nice, new
DIAMOND encrusted tool of suitable shape. I used a cutoff disk. And use
it BY HAND. Slow but safe.

However those wires look very close to being long enough as is.

If they stick up at all, they are long enough. Clean them with #0000
steel wool or fine sand paper. Tin them. Then solder on tinned #30 or so
wire ... I get it from #22 tinned stranded wire. Finally stabilize them
using sensor-safe silicone. Make sure they are long enough to go throush
the base pins.

With ordinary care, your tube will live just fine. Don't worry about breaking an extra wire ... I broke a filament wire on one of my 5BP4s fixing
a broken deflection plate pin, and it works fine.

Crist Rigott
12-28-2016, 08:07 PM
I managed to tack on some wires with alligator clips on one end. Then I tested the CRT.

Viola! I didn't take any time to do any adjusting of the picture.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5640a_zpsdoigf1ab.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5640a_zpsdoigf1ab.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-28-2016, 08:09 PM
Thanks guys for the tips on fixing this CRT. Seeing it does test good with the wires hooked up I'll try and save this thing. Stay tuned.

old_coot88
12-28-2016, 09:01 PM
:rockon:You may now claim the official title


SUPERTECH

:tresbon::banana::banana:

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 12:23 AM
Well, the new wires are soldered on the CRT and sensor safe silicone has been added. Tomorrow I'll assemble the base to the bulb.

I used Dremel Cut-Off wheels by hand to start scratching the glass away. Then I switched to a #11 hobby blade and scraped the glass away. Then I used the hobby knife to scrape the wire clean and then tinned it.

I used some 30awg magnet wire and cleaned off the enamel. I then formed a very small coil of 2 turns. Yup, I'm using the coil method to attach the new wires to the stubs. A little flux and the wire was positioned on the stud and then soldered. A very nice shaped blob of solder told me I had it licked!

I then cleaned the joints with acetone to clean off the flux. A final rinse of alcohol and on went the sensor safe silicone.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5642a_zps1d497ef4.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5642a_zps1d497ef4.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5643a_zpsizg7j7v4.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5643a_zpsizg7j7v4.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5647a_zpsev0pxq1p.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5647a_zpsev0pxq1p.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5649a_zpskjslmyuw.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5649a_zpskjslmyuw.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5650a_zpsilsowel0.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5650a_zpsilsowel0.jpg.html)

Electronic M
12-29-2016, 07:53 AM
Nice work. The coil method for the new wire is what I do too.

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 10:07 AM
Nice work. The coil method for the new wire is what I do too.

Thank you.

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 10:09 AM
I put the base back on before I went to bed last night. I used the same sensor safe silicone. I then soldered the wires to the pins. Cleaned up the pins and we are ready to go.

I hooked the CRT back up to the TV and success!

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5652a_zps08kh7o4z.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5652a_zps08kh7o4z.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5655a_zpsxrypfnts.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5655a_zpsxrypfnts.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 11:08 AM
I added a 10 ohm 25W resistor to the filament string. The filament string is for 115vac and my wall outlets provide 124vac. I thought that the 124vac would be a bit too much for the filament string, hence the resistor. The filament string is now at 117vac using my wall outlet. I used such a big resistor because I had one on hand and also I like to way oversize these things.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5660a_zpsdgjwauu1.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5660a_zpsdgjwauu1.jpg.html)

dieseljeep
12-29-2016, 11:11 AM
It looks like clearly defined scan lines now.
Are you running the chassis with the original B+ configuration, with just the 25DN6 upgrade?
Great job on the CRT lead wires. Those CRT's don't grow on trees! :thmbsp:

bandersen
12-29-2016, 11:11 AM
Glad you got the CRT focus sorted out and nice work! One thought - you might want to add a thermistor to give the tubes a soft start. Something like a CL-90 has a 120 ohms cold and around 3 ohms hot.

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 11:20 AM
It looks like clearly defined scan lines now.
Are you running the chassis with the original B+ configuration, with just the 25DN6 upgrade?
Great job on the CRT lead wires. Those CRT's don't grow on trees! :thmbsp:

Not quite. Originally I had a 10 ohm 50W resistor (R69) in place of the 5 ohm 5W resistor that came with the kit. I used a 1N4007 instead of the selenium rectifier so I had to go up in resistance from the 5 ohms. Using my iso transformer and variac the 10 ohms gave me about 125 to 128V for the 130V bus (B+). Then I remembered that I'll be powering the TV using the wall outlets of 124vac. I had to go up to 15 ohms to get about 132V B+ voltage.

Thanks.

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 11:22 AM
Glad you got the CRT focus sorted out and nice work! One thought - you might want to add a thermistor to give the tubes a soft start. Something like a CL-90 has a 120 ohms cold and around 3 ohms hot.

Thanks Bob!

Do you think I'll still need the thermistor even though the tubes have that 11 second delay built in?

dieseljeep
12-29-2016, 11:59 AM
Not quite. Originally I had a 10 ohm 50W resistor (R69) in place of the 5 ohm 5W resistor that came with the kit. I used a 1N4007 instead of the selenium rectifier so I had to go up in resistance from the 5 ohms. Using my iso transformer and variac the 10 ohms gave me about 125 to 128V for the 130V bus (B+). Then I remembered that I'll be powering the TV using the wall outlets of 124vac. I had to go up to 15 ohms to get about 132V B+ voltage.

Thanks.
Your line voltage is quite high! Ours is usually around 121 volts. The distribution transformer is on the lot next to me. A newer area, 15 years old. I imagine, the voltage is that high to avoid brown-outs in the summer time when everyone has their AC on. Your warm season is a lot longer than ours.
It's great to see that everything is working out fine. A lot of effort was put in and the results show it! :thmbsp:

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 12:00 PM
With the TV plugged into the wall (124vac) I'm getting 135v B+ and 13.2 to 14.6Kv depending on the brightness setting.

This is with a 10 ohm resistor in the filament string and a 15 ohm resistor in the power line going to the rectifier.

Findm-Keepm
12-29-2016, 12:25 PM
Your line voltage is quite high!

124V is still within limits of ANSI C84.1.....127V max. I'm at 127V...

bandersen
12-29-2016, 01:23 PM
Thanks Bob!

Do you think I'll still need the thermistor even though the tubes have that 11 second delay built in?

Not sure what you mean by that ? Is there some device providing a slow 11 second filament power up ?

dieseljeep
12-29-2016, 01:44 PM
Not sure what you mean by that ? Is there some device providing a slow 11 second filament power up ?

According to the tube manuals, all the newer issue 600ma tubes have controlled heater warmup of 11 seconds. :scratch2:

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 01:44 PM
Not sure what you mean by that ? Is there some device providing a slow 11 second filament power up ?

On the 25DN6 tube data sheet they talk about controlled warm up period.

"Thermal characteristics of the heater have been controlled such that heater voltage surges during the warm-up cycle are minimized provided it is used with other types which are similarly controlled."

Then further down on the data sheet it states:

"Heather warm-up time. (Approx.)" 11 seconds

Most all of the tubes used have these statements in their data sheets.

bandersen
12-29-2016, 02:11 PM
Yes and typically tubes with an 'A' suffix like 6AU6A are designed for series string operation. It's still a good idea to add a thermistor for additional protection. They do a better job than the tube on it's own.

Crist Rigott
12-29-2016, 02:20 PM
Yes and typically tubes with an 'A' suffix like 6AU6A are designed for series string operation. It's still a good idea to add a thermistor for additional protection. They do a better job than the tube on it's own.

10-4. Thanks. I'll order some.

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 03:41 PM
Here is what I used instead of the cork they supplied with the kit.

It is a very close cell foam that I get at Hobby Lobby. This is about 1/16 thick. I used some spray contact cement to glue them in place.

I also used the same stuff on the "inside" of the CRT strap so there isn't any metal to glass contact.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5661a_zpsu7um9tym.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5661a_zpsu7um9tym.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5662a_zpsqrjmdmco.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5662a_zpsqrjmdmco.jpg.html)

I also made a "stand-off" from 1/16 phenolic sheet to help manage the HV lead from getting too close the the chassis and the lead from the fly-back to the HV rectifier.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5668a_zpsuccjo3yu.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5668a_zpsuccjo3yu.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 03:54 PM
There was a post either in this thread or on the other forum, suggesting that I might need some more filtering. Well I clipped in another 220uf cap parallel with C43B. There was no change to the B+ supply but the picture seemed a bit more stable. Hmm..... so I added another 220uf to C43A and again the B+ stayed the same abd the picture remained stable.

So if I add these E-caps to each C43A and C43B it will bring each up to 440uf. Does anybody see anything wrong with doing that? Would a lesser uf work?

I'm including a picture of that section of the schematic.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5427a_zpsfdqtglun.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5427a_zpsfdqtglun.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 04:25 PM
I've been doing some investigating the focus problem I had with the help of another person offline.

Basically I cannot duplicate the focusing problem I had before I repaired the broken wires on the CRT.

If it was a broken wire I should be able to duplicate it by disconnecting pin 6 from B-. When I do, the picture remains in focus! NOTE - On the schematic, the blue wire from pin 6 shows it goes to chassis ground. This is an error on the drawing. It really goes to B-.


I've tried disconnecting wires on pin 2 and pin 10 with the same results, It still stays in focus. I even went back to the kit supplied 25CD6 and still stayed in focus.

I'm at a loss as to what caused the focus problem. I do know that after I fixed the the broken wires and reattached the base, the CRT stays in focus.

I'm including a section of the schematic so you can see what I'm talking about and maybe offer some reasons or suggestions.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5672a_zps7xuavdhc.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5672a_zps7xuavdhc.jpg.html)

tom.j.fla
12-31-2016, 04:27 PM
The extra caps will be fine. Back in the day would add extra filtering to get rid of audio and video hum. Have been following your journey with the build as I have a unit in my collection that was built 60 years ago. Not a real good job on the construction on the set I have. Thank you for posting the docs for construction of the set as my set had no info, so now I will start to fix mine. All the best,Tom.J

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 04:31 PM
The extra caps will be fine. Back in the day would add extra filtering to get rid of audio and video hum. Have been following your journey with the build as I have a unit in my collection that was built 60 years ago. Not a real good job on the construction on the set I have. Thank you for posting the docs for construction of the set as my set had no info, so now I will start to fix mine. All the best,Tom.J

Tom, are you saying you have the same chassis? That would be terrific! What size CRT does it have?

tom.j.fla
12-31-2016, 06:50 PM
Yes I do have a T-M 5516 and it has a 17 inch CRT. All the best,Tom.J

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 06:59 PM
Yes I do have a T-M 5516 and it has a 17 inch CRT. All the best,Tom.J

Way cool!

I gotta see pictures!

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 07:08 PM
I added the extra 220uf e-caps, on each to C44A and C44B. The picture seems more stable now.

I spent a little time centering the picture and adjusting the height and Vert. Lin and here is the picture a scene from Veggietales.

Seems pretty good. The width is much too wide even though at very near the end of the adjustment. Any ideas as to what can be done to shrink it some like change a cap or such.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5673a_zps1gktuitr.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5673a_zps1gktuitr.jpg.html)

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 07:11 PM
Yes I do have a T-M 5516 and it has a 17 inch CRT. All the best,Tom.J

Tom,
What is the number of the CRT? I have a list of typo errors and such I'll have to provide you. The TV essentially played right off the bat.

tom.j.fla
12-31-2016, 07:15 PM
You can drop the screen voltage on the 25DN6 horz. tube to get the width under control. Don't have any way to take pics at this time, just coal in my stocking this year(lol). Don't have the CRT number at hand will have to get set out of storage to find out. All the best,Tom.J

EdKozk2
12-31-2016, 10:55 PM
Great Job Crist :thmbsp:
I noticed you used that black foam under the CRT. I used something just like that on the bottom of a Motorola VT-71 set a couple of months ago. After about 2 weeks of weight on it, about 25 pounds it flattened out. It lost almost all of it's ability to cushion the set. I ended up using heavy felt pads instead. I brought this up because I didn't want your CRT to get real loose in the tension strap.
Ed

Crist Rigott
12-31-2016, 10:56 PM
Great Job Crist :thmbsp:
I noticed you used that black foam under the CRT. I used something just like that on the bottom of a Motorola VT-71 set a couple of months ago. After about 2 weeks of weight on it, about 25 pounds it flattened out. It lost almost all of it's ability to cushion the set. I ended up using heavy felt pads instead. I brought this up because I didn't want your CRT to get real loose in the tension strap.
Ed

Thanks ED, I'll keep an eye on it.

Crist Rigott
01-01-2017, 12:31 AM
You can drop the screen voltage on the 25DN6 horz. tube to get the width under control. Don't have any way to take pics at this time, just coal in my stocking this year(lol). Don't have the CRT number at hand will have to get set out of storage to find out. All the best,Tom.J

Tom,
I increased R63 (pin 8 of the 25DN6) to 6.8K and it finally made a difference in width, however my HV went from 13.5Kv to 10Kv. That won't work. Did I get the right resistor?

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5677a_zpsvkhhd8vh.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Tech-Master%20TV%20Kit%205516/100_5677a_zpsvkhhd8vh.jpg.html)

old_coot88
01-01-2017, 01:06 AM
You got the right resistor. If the width control (L17) doesn't help, there's something called a width sleeve that some sets actually came equipped with. It's basically a thin sheet (almost a foil) of brass or copper that's rolled into a cylinder and slipped partway into the yoke. You adjust the depth of insertion for width. Of course it needs to have an insulating coating so it doesn't short to the yoke windings. Some of the gurus on here can tell you more about width sleeves.

Electronic M
01-01-2017, 01:46 AM
The sleeve is probably the only way to further change the width without reducing HV.

Part of me wonders if this set would benefit from a HV doubler circuit.

Crist Rigott
01-01-2017, 07:54 AM
The sleeve is probably the only way to further change the width without reducing HV.

Part of me wonders if this set would benefit from a HV doubler circuit.

Could you go into more detail as to a "HV Doubler" circuit? Thanks.