This can also be caused be improper termination of the delay line, check all parts for value on either end of it.

So adding the 180uh choke in place of the open one (L72) makes the ghosting WORSE! Ugh! Something else has to be causing this then. Left photo is with no coil, right is with coil attached in circuit.

Suggestions:

1) make sure the value isn't off by a decimal place or something
2) check for open resistor in parallel with either L72 and/or L71

If it's not those, check all other parallel L-R combos in the video amp chain.

Suggestions:

1) make sure the value isn't off by a decimal place or something
2) check for open resistor in parallel with either L72 and/or L71

If it's not those, check all other parallel L-R combos in the video amp chain.

Value is fine. Checked all coils and resistors that may be in parallel with them and they all check fine except for a coil on the B-Y amp that reads 1.2 meg, but I dont think that one really matters for my current problem. I hope its not the delay line causing this!

Value is fine. Checked all coils and resistors that may be in parallel with them and they all check fine except for a coil on the B-Y amp that reads 1.2 meg, but I dont think that one really matters for my current problem. I hope its not the delay line causing this!

Are these components on a PC bOard? Maybe a bad solder joint? Try bridging a resistor directly across the coil?

Are these components on a PC bOard? Maybe a bad solder joint? Try bridging a resistor directly across the coil?

All point to point wired. Resistor did nothing. I think I will just get the color set up and worry about this later, maybe I'll think of something while Im doing that.

Now on to the color for now. Everything seems to be fine except for colors with magenta. As you can see the magenta bar fades off into red which I attribute to bad phasing in the G-Y(?) channel. I just am not sure how I would fix it (Phasing adjustment?).

Now on to the color for now. Everything seems to be fine except for colors with magenta. As you can see the magenta bar fades off into red which I attribute to bad phasing in the G-Y(?) channel. I just am not sure how I would fix it (Phasing adjustment?).

it really would help to put a scope on the R-Y, G-Y, and B-Y outputs to see which ones are smeary. It may be the B-Y amp. If all are smeary, it may be a chroma alignment or even IF alignment problem. How is it affected by fine tuning?

it really would help to put a scope on the R-Y, G-Y, and B-Y outputs to see which ones are smeary. It may be the B-Y amp. If all are smeary, it may be a chroma alignment or even IF alignment problem. How is it affected by fine tuning?

Doesnt seem to be affected by fine tuning at all.

Doesnt seem to be affected by fine tuning at all.

Then you can cross IF alignment off the list.

Then you can cross IF alignment off the list.

Thank god. I will have to hook up the scope tomorrow.

Using the scope proved inconclusive, I couldnt get the scope to lock on to any trace coming from the demod tubes. The trace wasnt stable enough to get any pictures of it without it being cut off. Hmm, should I just try a color set up per the manuals instructions?

Interesting the worst smear is between magenta and green. This color transition is the greatest phase swing. This suggests that the chroma channel response is bad.

The chroma response of the later (CTC4 on) sets is dependent upon a good complementary video IF and chroma channel response.

Interesting the worst smear is between magenta and green. This color transition is the greatest phase swing. This suggests that the chroma channel response is bad.

The chroma response of the later (CTC4 on) sets is dependent upon a good complementary video IF and chroma channel response.

Second this, but seeing it at both demodulators would confirm it.

SwizzyMan, what kind of scope do you have? If it is capable of syncing on a separate signal from the one you are viewing, it's good to know how to do that for future reference. You could sync on the luma, the sync separator stage, or just by putting a probe somewhat near the flyback (not too close!), and then look at whatever you wanted with the other input.

Second this, but seeing it at both demodulators would confirm it.

SwizzyMan, what kind of scope do you have? If it is capable of syncing on a separate signal from the one you are viewing, it's good to know how to do that for future reference. You could sync on the luma, the sync separator stage, or just by putting a probe somewhat near the flyback (not too close!), and then look at whatever you wanted with the other input.

Its a tektronix TAS 220. 20 mhz analog scope, not the greatest but it normally works.

Its a tektronix TAS 220. 20 mhz analog scope, not the greatest but it normally works.

Nice little scope - you can trigger on channel 2 and poke around with channel 1.

Can't seem to get the scope to trigger. I really need to look for a better one here soon anyway. I'll keep messing with it, maybe I can get it to trigger.

What I see is video ringing in the earlier picture. Looks like you were on the right track with the peaking coils and such in the last video and IF strip. The color problem is what we used to call poor color fit. More often than not it is caused by a problem or poor alignment of the IF strip. I would set up to do an IF sweep alignment and see what the response curves look like. A proper IF alignment may solve both problems. I will bet it is off more than you think.

Sounds like an alignment is in order this weekend. Unless I can do it with the chassis on the bench with no hv or crt.

Uh, that's how you're supposed to do it...

Read the alignment instructions, or better yet if you have a B&K 415 use that it'll cut your time in half.

Uh, that's how you're supposed to do it...

Read the alignment instructions, or better yet if you have a B&K 415 use that it'll cut your time in half.

Don't have a 415, but I do believe I have all other necessary equipment. Bear with me here, this is my first IF alignment on a color tv. I've been lucky I haven't had to do any till now.

I like Bill R's suggestion of setting up to do a video IF alignment and viewing the traces to judge whether alignment is a significant problem. That is, look -- following the procedure in the factory manual -- but don't touch any adjusters the first time around.

If you haven't done the procedure before, that would also give you confidence that your setup is correct and you are viewing valid things on your scope.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
https://antiqueradio.org/index.html

The alignment instructions for this seem pretty involved! Don't know if I am quite up to the task yet... Can anyone lead me in the right direction? If push comes to shove I'll just try and build a video preamp.

Do you have a restored B/W set that works well, that you could use to practice alignment (again, doing the setup and looking at the traces, without changing adjustments)? The setup wouldn't be identical, but maybe that would help you get the hang of things.

I had reached a similar point with my CTC-4 and I took a stab at building a video preamp, which turned out to be not as simple as I hoped. This old thread has more details:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=259995&page=23

The last color bars that you posted look pretty good, apart from that one anomaly. What does the TV look like when you view regular content, such as a DVD or cable TV? Sometimes things that look less-than-perfect in test patterns don't interfere much with everyday viewing.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
https://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Do you have a restored B/W set that works well, that you could use to practice alignment (again, doing the setup and looking at the traces, without changing adjustments)? The setup wouldn't be identical, but maybe that would help you get the hang of things.

I had reached a similar point with my CTC-4 and I took a stab at building a video preamp, which turned out to be not as simple as I hoped. This old thread has more details:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=259995&page=23

The last color bars that you posted look pretty good, apart from that one anomaly. What does the TV look like when you view regular content, such as a DVD or cable TV? Sometimes things that look less-than-perfect in test patterns don't interfere much with everyday viewing.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
https://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Still isnt great while viewing programs. Ghosting and the picture looks overdriven which may be to the fact that it is hooked directly up to the cable box. I don't think IF is an option for me now. If it really needs to be done I guess I can try it.

As Phil suggested, practice alignment on a BW set. You don't wanta jump on a full dress Harley without being proficient on a more basic bike. :)

Regarding a video preamp, I just updated my CTC-4 article with a new section at the end, describing what I built:

https://antiqueradio.org/RCACTC-4ColorTelevision.htm

My preamp didn't work, due in part to a wiring mistake. I fixed that and messed around a little more, and then pushed the whole thing aside because I was burned out on the project.

Anyhow, I have to believe that the basic design, taken from the 1956 article in RCA Broadcast News, will work if someone takes the time to build it correctly.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
https://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Regarding a video preamp, I just updated my CTC-4 article with a new section at the end, describing what I built:

https://antiqueradio.org/RCACTC-4ColorTelevision.htm

My preamp didn't work, due in part to a wiring mistake. I fixed that and messed around a little more, and then pushed the whole thing aside because I was burned out on the project.

Anyhow, I have to believe that the basic design, taken from the 1956 article in RCA Broadcast News, will work if someone takes the time to build it correctly.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
https://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Wow, that will definetly be project... Hell, I'd pay someone to build me one.

...

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I'm also working on a CTC4 with some similar problems. Possibly we can help each other.

So far, it's been recapped and I've replaced all the out of tolerance resistors I can find. It produces a reasonably good B&W picture, but the chroma is VERY noisy. It looks like the kind of noise you see if the fine tuning is way off, or with heavy RF interference, but the picture looks good with the color turned down. Sound is also good.

I'm not sure what's normal for a CTC4, but I find that I have to set the color control a lot higher than on most other sets. I suspect it could be a problem with the chroma band pass (misalignment or low gain).

I have not checked the alignment yet other than the basic chroma demodulator adjustments. I can do a full alignment if I have to, but this one looks like a very complicated job.

Your set sounds like a carbon copy of mine. Same problems. It's probably a matter of IF alignment.