View Full Version : Trinitron Lost Green


Outland
06-09-2016, 08:50 PM
This may not be the perfect place for this, but it's pretty close. I recently found my old 2000 Trinitron PC CRT. I hooked it up to the MacBook, and boy was it a great display back in its day. It still is.

I turned it on today after 3 days in service, and green is completely gone. This happened once before on day 2, but then quickly went away. Looks like green has lost a connection somewhere, but where? Jiggling the cable does nothing at both ends. I've never seen something like that happen. Where is green? The entire screen has a blueish tint.

The tube is otherwise healthy as the CRT was used very little.

EDIT: Dang it, I meant red. Here's a photo.

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/apples555/photo_zpsfllkk2js.jpg

Outland
06-09-2016, 09:34 PM
The tube is fine, as this picture shows:

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/apples555/4812FD5D-90EE-456A-B432-56165391527E_zpsjdhqm2al.jpg

The cable is captive, so I'm not sure what to do. I'm not sure it's the cable, because no amount of jiggling has returned red with multiple sources.

N2IXK
06-09-2016, 10:16 PM
Most likely a failed cable. They usually break right at the VGA connector.

If you have access to a multimeter, you can check continuity on the red signal wires (usually one of 3 coaxial cables within the larger cable). If you can solder, you could cut the 15 pin VGA plug off, and replace it without too much work.

Otherwise, you need to signal trace the red signal from the input connector pins to the CRT. The signal path is pretty straightforward, and you have the Blue and Green channels to compare voltages and waveforms against....

Outland
06-09-2016, 10:19 PM
I don't know how to do those things, but I want to.

First I assume it is best to check continuity. I have a multimeter. How can I check continuity?

N2IXK
06-09-2016, 10:26 PM
Check for continuity between the corresponding pins of the 15 pin VGA connector and the wires inside the monitor. The pinout of the connector is available here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector

In particular, you want to see that pins 1 and 6 are continuous through the cable. if you look at the cable end inside the monitor, you will likely see 3 coaxial cables for the RGB signals (and maybe 2 more for sync).

Obviously, you do all this with the monitor unplugged from power.

Outland
06-09-2016, 10:33 PM
I look forward to trying this tomorrow.

So the back comes off with the power off, one end of the multimeter goes to the pin (1 for red in this case) and the other end goes to the corresponding wire on the circuit board.

Thank you.

N2IXK
06-09-2016, 10:40 PM
Chances are pin 1 or 6 are open.

The cable usually breaks at a point where it is sharply bend or stressed. Usually at the 15 pin plug, or where it enters the monitor.

Other failures are of course possible (red video amp stage somewhere inside the monitor), but broken cables are by far the most common problem here.

Outland
06-10-2016, 02:25 PM
Getting the back off of this monitor is impossible.

There are two screws on the bottom that come out, so the bottom part of the back pops out fine. The top part is secured by something that refuses to go. There are two slots on the top that look like this.

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/apples555/F16FDF07-B118-4745-BB04-016679891BBE_zpsr3s1j3oz.jpg

As you can tell I've tried prying it with a screwdriver while pulling on the bottom part. Definite no go. No screws anywhere around the top. What the heck? It's a CPD-E200. Here's a photo of the monitor back.

http://scrapforum.com.au/forum/tv-monitor-sound-video/crt-s/crt-monitors/6010-scrapping-a-crt-monitor-sony-trinitron-cpd-e200

Somehow this guy got it open?!

Outland
06-10-2016, 02:27 PM
I'm willing to just replace the VGA connector anyway.

How is this done?

EDIT: I'm going to pick up a free CRT on CL to tide me over in the meantime.

N2IXK
06-10-2016, 06:48 PM
Chop connector off end of cable, leaving at least a 1" stub of cable on the severed connector.

Carefully strip the outer jacket off the stub, exposing all the internal cables and wires.

Use an ohmmeter on continuity mode to "ring out" the different colored wires to the individual pins of the connector. It is here that you will likely find one or both of the red signal conductors (likely a coaxial cable) to be open. Compare against the pinout in the wikipedia link to figure out any that ring open. Make a chart of wire color vs. pin number, as you ring the connections out. Check for continuity between the connector shell and the cable shield.

Strip the cable end coming from the monitor, prep and tin the conductors, and solder onto the new DE15HD plug, using the chart you made. If the cable shield needs a connection to the connector shell, you can make it with a short jumper wire, or a twisted bundle of the braid. Install a backshell and strain relief onto the connector, and you should be good to go.

Outland
06-17-2016, 10:49 PM
I will be attempting this this weekend.

First step is chopping off the end and testing continuity to see if the problem is indeed with the connector.

Check for continuity between the connector shell and the cable shield.

Second is to crack open the housing and solder the wires to the connector. However, I don't own a soldering iron. Which one should I buy? There are many different types.

Also, does the cable shield need a connection to the connector shell (is that the metal part?)? What is a strain relief?

I was thinking, would it be simpler to buy a VGA cable and cut it in the middle, and join the two cables?

N2IXK
06-17-2016, 11:13 PM
I will be attempting this this weekend.

First step is chopping off the end and testing continuity to see if the problem is indeed with the connector. My question here is what tool do I use to strip the thick cable?

A utility knife or x-acto knife and some care will work to remove the outer jacket. The wires inside will need a wire stripper.



Second is to crack open the housing and solder the wires to the connector. Your post explains things pretty well. However, I don't own a soldering iron. Which one should I buy? There are many different types. I assume I can buy the connector itself at radioshack.

A temperature controlled iron around 40W or so. These connectors are a bit cramped to be your first soldering project, though. Practice a bit before attempting. RS used to sell the needed parts at one time, but many of them have closed or eliminated their parts stocks. You need a 15 pin male HD connector and a backshell to fit it.

Also, does the cable shield need a connection to the connector shell (is that the metal part?)?

Usually. Check the cut off end to confirm. Yes, that is the metal outer part of the connector. Solder to it quickly to avoid melting the plastic parts.

What is a strain relief?

A clamp or other arrangement to mechanically fix the end of a cable to a connector, preventing excessive strain on the individual connections. A clamp should come with the connector backshell.

I was thinking, would it be simpler to buy a VGA cable and cut it in the middle, and join the two cables?

It might be, but the colors of wires may not match, and unless you reshield the splice with copper foil tape or whatever, there is the possibility of interference in the image from stray signal pickup.

Outland
06-17-2016, 11:36 PM
I really would like to do this right. Maybe I can practice on and solder the stump to a second connector after I make the diagram.

The connector is sealed on the monitor cable. I don't know how I would be able to open it to see if the cable shield is connected to the connector.

prep and tin the conductors, and solder onto the new DE15HD plug

To describe this step-by-step from the very beginning, would that be:

1) Plug soldering iron in. Use a wet sponge to get off old solder and tin the tip by putting a little solder on it.

2) Tin the tiny conductors on the connector and on the stripped little wires. Now they both have solder. Wait 60 seconds to cool. Join them together and at the same time put more solder on the joint (just a tiny bit though by quantity, barely thicker than the wire itself). Wait 60 seconds to cool. Repeat for the other remaining wires.

3) Solder a small jumper wire from the shield to the connector metal part.

3) Plug in to test?

4) Put on backshell and clamp.

Thank you again.

EDIT: In this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msHdwVT5rZE), he didn't tin the connectors first. Should I do so anyway?

This guide (http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html) looks closer to what you're saying.

EDIT 2: This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAtz7gEgN7c) was very helpful.

I'm going to practice on a spare VGA cable and a spare connector, then check for continuity.

andy
06-18-2016, 11:07 AM
I would want to confirm that the cable is bad before going to all the trouble of replacing the VGA connector. Cables don't usually break unless they are handled a lot (eg. a test monitor). When they do break, you can almost always make it work temporarily by bending the cable the right way.

Have you done a resistance check between pin 2 and ground? Pins 1, 2, and 3 and red, green, and blue, and should measure 75 ohms to ground. If pin 2 is either open, or shorted, then the cable may be bad. The break could be at either end though.

To open the case, you have to push a thin screwdriver in the slots to release the lock. Push the screwdriver in about 1/2" while pulling the back off, don't use it to pry.

Outland
06-18-2016, 12:08 PM
How do I check pin to ground?

It is strange. No amount of wiggling will make red return. It disappeared, then came back when the monitor switched resolution. Then it was gone for good when I turned it on the next day.

EDIT: Oh, I assume you meant pin 10 (ground). I will check.

andy
06-18-2016, 07:37 PM
How do I check pin to ground?

It is strange. No amount of wiggling will make red return. It disappeared, then came back when the monitor switched resolution. Then it was gone for good when I turned it on the next day.

EDIT: Oh, I assume you meant pin 10 (ground). I will check.

The pins directly below 1, 2, and 3 are ground, also the metal shell surrounding the pins is grounded. There are also other ground pins.

Outland
06-23-2016, 12:15 AM
Ok, pins 2 and 3 (green and blue) to ground (pin and shell) measure around 75 ohms resistance. Pin 1 however measures infinity. That must be why red is not showing up.

Outland
06-23-2016, 12:36 AM
This might be a dumb question, but is it ok to solder outside? It seems like soldering in the apartment would have poor ventilation.

zeno
06-23-2016, 07:53 AM
This might be a dumb question, but is it ok to solder outside? It seems like soldering in the apartment would have poor ventilation.
Just solder inside. I did since I was about 10 & thats 50 yrs ago !
Often in my little bedroom. If it were harmful I want to see the
millions of bodies & cripples it has caused.........
The back is held by claws & you have to bend it at the gaps.
A butter knife often works well.
BTW have you tried hitting the set ? It may just be a cold joint
at the inside cable socket but most likely the cable itself.

73 Zeno:smoke:

dieseljeep
06-23-2016, 10:36 AM
Just solder inside. I did since I was about 10 & thats 50 yrs ago !
Often in my little bedroom. If it were harmful I want to see the
millions of bodies & cripples it has caused.........
The back is held by claws & you have to bend it at the gaps.
A butter knife often works well.
BTW have you tried hitting the set ? It may just be a cold joint
at the inside cable socket but most likely the cable itself.

73 Zeno:smoke:

There was a local TV program showing pre-teen girls, basic electrical theory and series and parallel circuits.
They were also showing them the basics of soldering. They didn't have any fancy smoke extractor set-up. It was held in a community center. :yes:

Outland
06-23-2016, 12:10 PM
BTW have you tried hitting the set ? It may just be a cold joint
at the inside cable socket but most likely the cable itself.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I have actually. Absolutely no effect.

I'm going to solder on a new connector, so I don't need to get the back off anymore. If that doesn't work, can I replace the whole cable? It seems like it goes deep into the monitor.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/civon68/scrapforum/pc%20monitor/crt%20monitor%201/sony200e_zps1653bd05.jpg

What do you guys think about instead of soldering on a connector at the very end, cutting the cable at the monitor and soldering on a female connector? I would be able to use a separate cable that way, and simply replace it if/when that one breaks.

They were also showing them the basics of soldering. They didn't have any fancy smoke extractor set-up. It was held in a community center.

I mean, a community center is larger than an apartment. If it's been done before, I guess it's ok.

N2IXK
06-25-2016, 08:08 PM
Hobbyist volume soldering indoors nothing to worry about. If the flux smoke bothers you, open a window or use a fan.

Soldering a female at the monitor not a great idea, IMHO. Unless you actually install the connector into the case/chassis. Putting it on a stub of cord is harder to do mechanically, and will transfer extra load to the strain relief at the monitor housing, which can/will cause another cable failure if flexed too much.

You could certainly replace the entire cable if you have an EXACT replacement scavenged from another monitor of the same type/brand. There is no "standard" as to the types/number/pinouts of the connector(s) INSIDE the monitor.

Outland
06-25-2016, 09:32 PM
Excellent.

I picked up a 15-pin DSUB connector today and a connector hood. I'm all ready to go except for one thing. The hole for the cable on the hood is too small. Can I still use this hood? Where can I pick up a hood with a thicker hole?

N2IXK
06-25-2016, 09:43 PM
Can you use it if you open up the cable outlet with a Dremel or similar tool?

Digikey certainly has something that would work. Have to look at datasheets/drawings.

Outland
06-25-2016, 10:06 PM
Great. I think I have everything. I look forward to soldering and posting a success story.

Outland
06-26-2016, 03:21 AM
Almost all of the housings I saw on Digikey look too narrow to accept this cable. The closest I could find was this (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/A-HDS15-HOOD-WP/AE10119-ND/1089501).

This is the exact thickness of my cable relative to the connector (and shape of connector).

http://images.cecompass.com/productimages/S/SHDD_10F/SHDD_10F_D.jpg

Will I be fine with the one I linked? The one from RS is too thin by far, even to dremel because the strain relief would be gone.

N2IXK
06-26-2016, 09:47 AM
Did you check the datasheet for that connector, and compare it to your cable diameter? It says it comes with seals to fit cables from 3.5 to 7 mm.

http://www.assmann.us/specs/A-HDx15-HOOD-WP.pdf

That is a waterproof industrial connector, and is EXTREME overkill for your application. It may have issues mating with a standard VGA connector on a computer (going to be physically bulky so clearance becomes an issue). And they cost $11 each!

You need to MEASURE your cable diameter, and RESEARCH the various connector hoods/backshells that are available. READ datasheets, and SELECT one that will fit YOUR application.

None of this is rocket science. But it takes a bit of effort to dig through datasheets and find a part that will work for you. Nobody else is going to do your research for you...

Outland
08-11-2016, 11:15 AM
Thank you very much so far.

I think I've gone as far as I can without asking for help, but I don't know how to proceed.

I've opened up the cable and connector and I'm ready to solder. I've found that the pinout is as follows:

1-Red-Inner Red Coaxial Wire
2-Green-Inner Green Coaxial Wire
3-Blue-Inner Blue Coaxial Wire
4-ID2-Unknown
5-Ground HSync-Outer Black Coaxial Wire
6-Red Return-Outer Red Coaxial Wire
7-Green Return-Outer Green Coaxial Wire
8-Blue Return-Outer Blue Coaxial Wire
9-Pin Missing
10-Ground Vsync-Little Black Wire
11-ID0-Unknown
12-ID1-Red Wire inside Black Coaxial Wire
13-Hsync-White Wire
14-Vsync-Brown Wire
15-ID3-Yellow Wire inside Black Coaxial Wire

The connector has 13 wires, yet 14 pins. The green wire is unaccounted for. How can this be?

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/apples555/7756624B-7DB4-41DD-AAA1-0A7FC73EB2F3_zps3rri6aih.jpg

Not to mention red is apparently fine.

andy
08-11-2016, 01:19 PM
It's possible the green wire is damaged, or just not used. You can always cut open the plug to see where things go.

Not every pin in necessarily used. On a modern monitor like this, pins 12 and 15 are used for serial data to transmit monitor specs. The monitor ID pins go back to the 1980s and the PS/2, and won't be of much use in a monitor like this.

The only thing that's necessary to make a picture are the RGB signals and sync.

Before you go to any more trouble, confirm that the red wire going into the monitor is good. The break could be where it enters the monitor, or anywhere along the cable.

If the cable is bad, you can buy a new VGA cable, and splice it inside the monitor.

You'll find more up to date info here:

http://pinouts.ru/Video/Vga15_pinout.shtml

N2IXK
08-11-2016, 01:38 PM
Check the resistance between the inner and outer conductors on each of the RGB coax cables. If the cables are good all the way into the monitor, you should read around 75 ohms on each one.

Outland
08-11-2016, 02:04 PM
The color coaxial cables going into the monitor measure 75 ohm inner to outer. I'm going to solder the connector on anyway and go from there.

Outland
08-12-2016, 04:35 AM
Soldering the DB15 connector is very difficult. I've already ruined two connectors.

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/apples555/1EA1198A-7C05-4EE6-8A11-B04922838EB3_zpsgxh0gggp.jpg

The coaxial cable's stiffness makes things very difficult.

Electronic M
08-12-2016, 07:22 AM
You might need a smaller iron, something to hold the connector still, and something to hold the wires...

dieseljeep
08-12-2016, 11:07 AM
You might need a smaller iron, something to hold the connector still, and something to hold the wires...

The entire cable has to be replaced.
You're trying to solder aluminum wire, which is almost impossible. That's why you're having all that difficulty!
Maybe a forum member has a scrap monitor, that they can unsolder the cable from the board. They must have small crimp terminals that solder into the PC board, as it's impossible to wave solder aluminum. :sigh:

Outland
08-12-2016, 11:54 AM
I wish I knew that before I bought this soldering iron. :)

I almost picked up a spare on CL for free, but then decided on fixing this one instead.

I bought one of those breakout connectors (https://www.winford.com/products/pic/brksd15hdf-c_conn.jpg) to make sure my pinout is correct and that the fault is in the connector (which doesn't seem to be the case, because continuity exists with red in the connector :saywhat:).

From what I've seen, the monitor end is even worse.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/civon68/scrapforum/pc%20monitor/crt%20monitor%201/sony200e_zps1653bd05.jpg

Hmm...

andy
08-12-2016, 02:43 PM
The entire cable has to be replaced.
You're trying to solder aluminum wire, which is almost impossible. That's why you're having all that difficulty!

I've worked with a lot of cables like this, and I've never encountered one with aluminum wire. I've never even heard of aluminum wire being used in consumer electronics apart from the voice coils of a few speakers.

Outland
08-15-2016, 02:24 PM
Well, I got the connector today and hooked it up.

The monitor works again! My connector looks awful, and I wasn't able to connect pin 5 and connector ground. The monitor seems to be working ok without them.

Outland
08-16-2016, 08:51 AM
Connecting everything results in a much sharper picture.

Thank you all very much. This monitor still has a great picture.