View Full Version : My new RCA CTC-25!


TUD1
01-30-2016, 04:57 PM
After 5 long weeks, I finally had an opportunity to go visit my friend Danny in Atlanta again. He had set aside a few things for me, including a 1982 Sanyo Betacord, but the real treasure was an RCA CTC-25 "Winslow." We powered it up, and it had a "passable" but otherwise lousy picture. It had an RCA Colorama CRT and the emissions were almost completely dead. He said I should leave it there for now and he would replace the tube and fix a few other problems it has. I'll be going back February 20th to pick it up and to go to the swap meat.

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=189780&d=1454191019

matt99
01-30-2016, 05:52 PM
I believe you would want this thread in the "rectangular screen tube television" section although I am not a moderator. I like the cabinet style of this set btw. Is there an additional speaker behind that cloth below the screen?

TUD1
01-30-2016, 06:30 PM
There is only one speaker, and it is below the screen.

Kevin Kuehn
01-30-2016, 07:58 PM
That is a sharp looking set, and compact too. Also nice to have a friend that changes CRT's for you. :thmbsp:

TUD1
01-30-2016, 08:31 PM
Yep, Danny is a super great guy and I can't thank him enough for this TV.

Radiotronman
01-31-2016, 10:32 AM
I like the looks of the control area on those era RCAs!

Celt
01-31-2016, 11:41 AM
Moved to rectangular.... :)

TUD1
01-31-2016, 01:54 PM
In order to transport this set in the Buick, the CRT will need to be removed from the cabinet and reinstalled later. Any information on that process will be greatly appreciated, as I have never reinstalled a CRT.

Electronic M
01-31-2016, 04:09 PM
General CRT removal procedure: Remove back of cabinet, unscrew main chassis and unplug plug-able wires connected to main chassis (note where they go), if tuner sub-chassis unplugs (haven't seen that on an RCA) unplug it or remove tuner sub-chassis from cabinet (there should be a piece of metal on the back of the tuner chassis that can bolt to the screws on either side of the cord interlock for safer transport...do that), remove main chassis from cabinet, set cabinet face down and remove screws/bolts that hold CRT in (usually at the corners), unscrew convergence board, if possible lift the CRT, it's mounting and neck hardware and convergence board out as a unit (it's usually an unnecessary pain to remove, reinstall and properly readjust the neck hardware), have a towel, rug, or some soft thing to set the CRT on ready so CRT face does not get scratched.

I recommend wrapping the convergence board and it's wires around the deflection yoke shroud so they don't flop around, and recommend bolting tuner to main chassis for the same reasons. Be careful things don't bump things on the boards I had to do a lot of extra work and parts sourcing to a CTC-20 roundy because a previous owner did not bolt the tuner sub-chassis on and let it flop about and damage things.

dieseljeep
01-31-2016, 04:11 PM
I like the looks of the control area on those era RCAs!

RCA made only one year of that channel selector and fine tuning arrangement, as they were trouble prone. You pushed in the channel selector knob for VHF fine tuning. The outer knob was for UHF tuning. Also you had to get the indicator lamps for the tuner from RCA, as no one else made them. Plus they were hard to focus properly. :thumbsdn:

old_coot88
01-31-2016, 05:46 PM
Nice catch! Sold a number of that same model back in the day.:yes:

Preachin' to the choir again, but don't forget the two ground stakes on the far-right end of the chroma board need to be reflowed. That's routine on any CTC-12, 15, 16, 17 and 25. When (not if) one of those grounds lets go, it kills the heaters on the two 6GU7s. That allows beam current in the CRT to avalanche, which ain't good.

You're gonna remove and reinstal the CRT? :eek: Here's a tip that's better to learn now than later: After a CRT replacement, the whole jug will gradually begin to tip backward, creating a larger and larger gap between the mask and the top of the CRT. We learned quickly to thoroughly tighten the steel band securing the CRT to its 'mounting ears'.

TUD1
01-31-2016, 05:47 PM
Yeah, Danny explained to me all the issues they had with this tuner. I won't be turning it very often. I'll probably just leave it in channel 15 all the time.

Old coot88, noted. Thanks for the info.

jstout66
01-31-2016, 06:17 PM
the good thing now tho... since it will either have to be run off a converter box or VCR, at least the tuner won't be an issue. They were a bitch in the day tho. Not a bad set otherwise. That chassis looks pretty clean. Did your friend clean it up, or is it "as found"?

TUD1
01-31-2016, 07:11 PM
This TV will be receiving channel 15 UHF. Possibly tied in with the VBT200. I'll have to ask him if he cleaned it up or not. But I agree, yes it is remarkably clean.

TUD1
02-01-2016, 07:35 PM
I absolutely cannot wait to bring this set home! I'm considering installing a small computer fan to help cool the flyback. I could probably just make do with hooking it up to a 9 volt battery when the set is turned on. Your thoughts?

dieseljeep
02-01-2016, 08:39 PM
Yeah, Danny explained to me all the issues they had with this tuner. I won't be turning it very often. I'll probably just leave it in channel 15 all the time.

Old coot88, noted. Thanks for the info.

I'm glad, someone agreed with me regarding the tuner issue.
It wasn't the actual tuner, but the crazy gearing design.
The chassis design was good, but they were hard on flybacks.
I have a year newer set, where there was slight differences, a CTC28. By the looks of the set, it appears that it was maintained under contract, by RCA Service Company. It has a rebuilt CRT, stating RCA Service Co.
It seems that they were getting their replacement CRT's from a third party supplier, instead of RCA parts devision. :scratch2:

dieseljeep
02-01-2016, 08:45 PM
I absolutely cannot wait to bring this set home! I'm considering installing a small computer fan to help cool the flyback. I could probably just make do with hooking it up to a 9 volt battery when the set is turned on. Your thoughts?

Using 9 volt batteries, to power a cooling fan would be cost prohibitive!
You can get 9 to 12 volt DC wall-wart power supplies for very little cost, probably less than a cheap 9 volt battery would cost.

TUD1
02-01-2016, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the info, DieselJeep. What do you mean the CTC-25 is hard on flybacks? They run hot? All the more reason to install a fan I guess.

Electronic M
02-01-2016, 11:13 PM
Using 9 volt batteries, to power a cooling fan would be cost prohibitive!
You can get 9 to 12 volt DC wall-wart power supplies for very little cost, probably less than a cheap 9 volt battery would cost.

What I'd do is rectify the heater string (or feed it to a voltage doubler) to power the fan....It's less bulky, and comes on with the set, and I can make one out of the stuff in my junk box anytime.

TUD1
02-01-2016, 11:21 PM
Thanks, Electronic M. I'll ask Danny what he thinks of that idea. It certainly would be more convenient than having to plug in a wall wart every time I use the set.

zeno
02-02-2016, 08:41 AM
For a fan get a muffin fan off an old piece of
test equiptment. Most run on 120 VAC & will move tons
of air. FBT's were common to melt then burn in these.

To move line trunk with blanket, put in face down. Make
it so the lid cant come down & hit the CRT. If you are
lucky & have a Roadmaster it may go all the way in especially
if the legs come off. Also pull knobs off.
A lot of sets came in & out this way & never lost a jug.

73 Zeno:smoke:

TUD1
02-02-2016, 09:11 AM
I have a LeSabre. The plan is to take the CRT out and put the cabinet sideways in the back seat. We tried the trunk - no chance of it fitting in there.

TUD1
02-04-2016, 04:38 PM
I remember Danny telling me that there was remote control version of the manual tuner in this TV. If that's the case, I wonder if it's possible to replace the manual tuner with a remote tuner? That would be sweet.

TUD1
02-19-2016, 08:02 PM
I'm going to pick this TV up tomorrow.

TUD1
02-20-2016, 04:37 PM
I got this TV from Danny today. I made a miscalculation when I thought it would fit in the back seat. That was not going to happen. So we had to improvise.

TUD1
02-20-2016, 04:38 PM
The insides.

Kevin Kuehn
02-20-2016, 08:54 PM
That chassis looks super clean.

TUD1
02-21-2016, 12:06 AM
Yep, and it has phenomenal picture.

jstout66
02-21-2016, 10:22 AM
It sure does! I assume that's a screen shot after you got everything all put back together?

damen
02-21-2016, 11:08 AM
Congratulations on your new RCA Victor New Vista Color Console :thmbsp:. Danny really is a very awesome guy and the coolest guy I know.

Tom S
02-21-2016, 11:59 AM
Very Nice set. I had one in a combo years ago. It had a solid state audio output stage to drive the big speaker system.

TUD1
02-21-2016, 12:44 PM
Thanks everyone. I got the TV all snuggled into its new home along with my 1941 Philco 41-255, 1937 Zenith 5S127, and 1940 Zenith 8S563.

TUD1
02-22-2016, 12:50 AM
I just can't say it enough. This TV's picture is amazing. Super crisp and sharp with very strong colors.

Jeffhs
02-22-2016, 05:44 AM
I just can't say it enough. This TV's picture is amazing. Super crisp and sharp with very strong colors.

Does it still have its original CRT? I don't know exactly how old your TV is, but if I had to guess, I would say at least 35-40+ years. (I knew someone in my home town in the '70s whose family had an RCA TV very similar to this one, which is why I am estimating yours is at least 40 years old.) If the set still has the original tube after all those years, it is truly amazing that you are getting such a great picture. My best guess, however, is that the tube was replaced at least once, as it is all but unheard of for a CRT, b&w or color, to produce this good a picture after 40-odd years, unless the set wasn't used much by its previous owners.

Even at that, forty-plus years with the original CRT and making a picture as good as yours is phenomenal. Most color CRTs have either become so dim after this length of time (if they produce any kind of raster or picture at all) as to require a brightener, or else the filaments in one or more electron guns have burned out. Again, I think your CTC25 is on its second CRT. If it isn't, I'll be very surprised.

TUD1
02-22-2016, 09:23 AM
I'll have to call Danny and confirm this, but I'm pretty sure the original tube was rebuilt in 1973 or thereabouts, and the rebuilt tube was graveyard dead when Danny gave it to me. It now has a Zenith tube from Danny's inventory with super strong emissions. The TV was made in 1966 for the 1967 model year. So it is 50 years old.

I forgot to mention, the CRT has no safety glass. Instead it was fitted with a steel band to protect against implosion.

TUD1
02-22-2016, 08:13 PM
I got a video of this TV up on Youtube. Here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k0nE24QGtPc) is the link.

roundscreen
02-22-2016, 09:57 PM
I like the plate on your car. The sofa.

TUD1
02-23-2016, 07:21 PM
I had a new problem arise with the CTC-25 today. I turned it on, and seconds later I heard some strange clunks. After that, I was greeted with a raster that was completely distorted, shrinking and growing rapidly, and buzzy, pulsating audio. I got a picture, but soon thereafter, it started rolling and then it went back to normal.

SwizzyMan
02-23-2016, 08:22 PM
Intermittent connection maybe? Glad it fixed itself though. Absolutely beautiful TV with an excellent picture!:thmbsp:

TUD1
02-23-2016, 08:48 PM
Thanks, SwizzyMan. I love that Westcott of yours! Talk about beautiful. You did a fantastic job restoring it.

old_coot88
02-23-2016, 08:57 PM
Possibly the auto-degauss thermistor trying to take a (*bleep*). Those going open was a very common problem. Usually doesn't fix itself though.

If it does it again, don't let it run like that for any length of time. If it is the thermistor going open, it will quickly burn up its paired varistor (the big black disc thingy that sits next to it).

TUD1
02-23-2016, 09:33 PM
old_coot88, thanks for the information.

Electronic M
02-24-2016, 01:09 AM
Could also be a main lytic failure. If any of the cans are getting warmer than the surrounding chassis metal after ~15-45 minutes run time the offending can(s) should get changed.

TUD1
02-24-2016, 01:20 AM
I forgot to mention that this chassis is almost 100% original, and I'd like to keep it that way as long as possible. When I was looking it over, I only saw one new capacitor and a few new solid state diodes on the convergence board. All the rest is 1966.

TUD1
02-26-2016, 12:29 AM
Here is the flyback in the RCA CTC-25. I measured the temperature after an hour with my infrared-thermometer, and the highest number I saw was 133 degrees F. This is the original flyback for this TV, and it is on its third CRT. Your collective thoughts? I want to avoid melting wax, arcing, and smoking. This TV is my daily watcher for no more than two hours a day. 5-6 days a week.

Electronic M
02-26-2016, 03:05 AM
Break the cathode ground connection on the H output tube, connect an ANALOG current meter set to the 0-250mA or 0-500mA scale, and adjust the H. linearity/efficiency coil with a PLASTIC diddle stick for minimum current current reading possible. That reading will likely be in the 185-225mA range. Sam's manual should have typical value in the schematic and max listed under the H adjustment procedure. As long as it is below max by at least 10mA you should be good long range. Adding a 1/4A fuse between the cathode and ground while doing the measurement is a good idea, and if mounted topside will facilitate future current checks. Report back the number and record the number so you have a referance if it changes in the future.

Two things to beware of on CTC-16 and later chassis with that style of flyback tire are 1.) some HV rect tubes are too short so the glass of the top does not fully seat against the fly causing damaging arcing, 2.) if the brown part of the tire starts to turn black (what I see in your pic looks fine) between the HV tube top cap and fly core then the tire is becoming conductive and allowing damaging arcing....If that occurs peel the brown rubber off (best done when the fly is warm from running if it can still safely run and produce HV) any skin colored silicone in the blackened area any char on the windings (be careful not to go too deep), and re-coat the HV winding with silicone. Check both the front AND back rubber for blackening as it does not always get both sides at once.

miniman82
02-26-2016, 11:32 AM
Sensor safe or electronics safe silicone, or the acid will eat up the copper windings.

old_coot88
02-26-2016, 12:57 PM
Take a good sniff of the fly for any sign of scorched odor. From the old servicing adage, "the nose knows". :smoke:
On the H out. cathode current, we strove for 200 ma. or less, with 210 ma. the absolute max for any degree of longevity.
And with an analog meter to be sure.

DavGoodlin
02-26-2016, 04:40 PM
Here is the flyback in the RCA CTC-25. I measured the temperature after an hour with my infrared-thermometer, and the highest number I saw was 133 degrees F. This is the original flyback for this TV, and it is on its third CRT. Your collective thoughts? I want to avoid melting wax, arcing, and smoking. This TV is my daily watcher for no more than two hours a day. 5-6 days a week.

One thing that tubed color RCA's lack that contributed to shortened flyback life is lack of ventilation openings in the cage.
If you look at a Zenith, GE, Motorola or Philco of the same era, they all had louvers. Not sure about Admiral and Sylvania but Magnavox lacked them and a few burnt up also.

That digital screen shot does not show how GREAT that picture really is. A CTC25, 28, 30 and 35 blew away the lower-priced CTC24, 31 and 38 chassis sets on many points, sets which all outwardly looked similar :thmbsp:

miniman82
02-26-2016, 05:15 PM
I have a Sylvania Saratoga, it has louvers as does my TV-123. If I had another later RCA I would definitely have the cage punched out for ventilation, or at least position a fan through that round door like usual. Kills me how they left the fly in there with those hot tubes and no airflow, it's a wonder any of them survived.

TUD1
02-26-2016, 06:42 PM
I scored big time at an estate sale today. I picked up an RCA tube caddy with a bunch of tubes. It's not exactly full, but it's not bad for $24. I also got a NOS CTC-38 flyback 119834. The sale had a bunch more tubes, but I didn't have any more money to get any. I'll go back Sunday when it's half off and get as many as I can.

old_coot88
02-27-2016, 01:20 AM
When those RCA color sets were first uncrated, the first thing we did was change the primary tap for 'high' line voltage. That dropped the H.out cathode current several milliamps. To change the tap, you have to turn the set up on end and slip the chassis back just enuff to access the terminal strip where the two taps connect. Your set may (or may not) have had this done by the original dealer.

TUD1
02-27-2016, 10:16 PM
I really need the tube tube lineup for this TV. I might to back to that estate sale tomorrow, but I don't have time to go through and document every single tube. I want to to get some spares.

I'm an idiot. I totally forgot that I have the tube lineup on the flyback cage.

TUD1
02-28-2016, 03:22 PM
I went back to the sale today with the intention of buying tubes, but somebody had bought the whole table for $175. I did manage to get four Sylvania triplers, a Zenith flyback, and a NOS brightener.

TUD1
04-20-2016, 09:39 PM
Gojo Hand Crème isn't just for radios anymore! I tried it on my CTC-25 Winslow, and the finish magically popped before my eyes! I could not believe the results just from slobbering Gojo on this set. I just used an old rag to rub it all around and toilet paper to wipe it off. In the picture, top is before and bottom is after. That really is how it turned out!

matt99
04-20-2016, 10:20 PM
Wow that looks great.

TUD1
04-21-2016, 05:00 PM
Thanks. Yeah, I didn't expect this kind of result - escpecially for it requiring almost no effort!

TUD1
04-24-2016, 12:00 AM
My CTC-25 is working super awesome, except that I have noticed a slight defect in the picture. On the far left side of the screen, there are a few thin vertical bars. It's not too noticeable unless you look really hard. Sorry about the picture being rotated - the bottom is really the side.

tom franco
05-21-2016, 04:51 PM
R there any vintage tv collectors in my area I'm in the st Lucie county area between vero beach west palm breach area of florida please let me know always looking to buy more sets or even trade thank u tom.

TUD1
05-21-2016, 05:39 PM
I think users TVcollector and Swizzyman are in Florida.

TUD1
07-22-2016, 07:24 PM
I tried to bring that Colorama back to life using my B&K 470 and 445. I clean and balanced the tube twice, then rejuvenated it twice. After that didn't work, I tried to dynamically intensify the non existent green with the 445. It helped a little. That tube is history. The picture is after using the 470 four times.

Electronic M
07-22-2016, 07:36 PM
Monochrome sets often can still make a decent picture like that, but colors depend on the guns having relatively similar emission, and often don't focus well as they die.

TUD1
03-26-2017, 07:11 PM
Changed the picture tube in the Winslow today. Took out the super strong - almost brand new 1972 Zenith 23VBAP22 black matrix tube, and put in a 60's RCA tube that was rebuilt in 1980 by an Atlanta company called Video Display. I want to save the Zenith Chromacolor tube for a deserving Zenith 23" set, if I ever get one. I want the set to be as good as the tube though. Mint condition, remote, and a cabinet I really like.

Here you can see why I prize that Zenith CRT so much. The last picture is how it tests at 6.3 volts. I have never seen any other CRT test so good.

sampson159
03-27-2017, 10:49 PM
vdc was one of the best of the crt rebuilders.back in the mid to lates 70s,we used there tubes almost exclusively and never had a complaint.i have a ctc 15 with a vdc rebuilt 21 round and the picture rivals any newer crt.also have a 25vdmp22 in my e 48 superset.it was a sad day when they no longer rebuild crts