View Full Version : 1963 Setchell Carlson color roundie


zenithfan1
10-04-2015, 11:00 AM
For anyone who isn't part of the Facebook tv group, here's what I scored yesterday. I traded a 1968 Zenith console color set for this 1963 Setchell Carlson color roundie. We are both very happy with what we ended up with. I'll have to do a full restoration on this. The cabinet is fair and just needs refinishing and a leg made. (I know someone that'll make it for me) and new caps and whatnot on the chassis. Has good RCA crt with no cataract.

hi_volt
10-04-2015, 11:06 AM
Wow. Nice score. I don't recall ever seeing a chassis like that. Very Cool!

bluenorm
10-04-2015, 11:23 AM
wow, a well ventilated high voltage cage!

consoleguy67
10-04-2015, 11:30 AM
Unit-ized chassis?

mikeh
10-04-2015, 12:21 PM
That is one cool tv, nice to see something different like that. Would really like to see the underside of the modules looks like it may be point to point wiring like Zenith. Nice score.

Gregb
10-04-2015, 12:21 PM
That is a very interesting chassis layout, do those modules plug in or are they hardwired? If pugged in that would sure make trouble shooting quick and easy if a shop had all the spares.

Gregb

Olorin67
10-04-2015, 01:21 PM
The modules plug in, with plug and socket terminal strips along the edges. Remove 1-2 screws, and pull the module straight up. Seems to be a reliable connection method. I have 3 B&W SC sets. should be easy to restore! Cant be too many of these left!

pendulum
10-04-2015, 01:35 PM
Very cool! This really interested me because a few months ago someone linked me a photo of a b/w setchell carlson for sale and it looks real similar to your color set, just with less knobs. Take a look, they must have reused the knobs and parts. If possible please show more of the chassis and set, it is very neat.


btw: do you have the link to the facebook group, I would like to look into joining it.

Electronic M
10-04-2015, 03:53 PM
Wow! If you ever want to sell it Mark, please let me know.

I've been wanting an S-C color for a while.

old_tv_nut
10-04-2015, 05:47 PM
Very cool: I have an ad for them, but never saw one.

Username1
10-04-2015, 08:27 PM
Cool ! 100% NOT an RCA clone !?!?! Did they do original design circuits ?
I bet they did, but don't own one, so gotta ask those who know....

.

Olorin67
10-04-2015, 09:10 PM
I remember reading someplace that when SC came out with color sets, RCA engineers were sent to visit SC and find out how SC got a better picture out of RCAs CRT. Might have been in a company publication, I read through the Pavek museum's SC files last time I was up there.

consoleguy67
10-04-2015, 09:20 PM
Do the channel numbers light up through the smoked section of the knobs? I have an SC radio like that.

Electronic M
10-04-2015, 09:29 PM
Cool ! 100% NOT an RCA clone !?!?! Did they do original design circuits ?
I bet they did, but don't own one, so gotta ask those who know....

.

IIRC S-C color sets were electrically RCA clones, but S-C made them 100% hand wired and unit-ized as they were known for.....I recall someone saying they worked so much better picture wise than RCAs that RCA sent engineers over to S-C to figure out how they were doing it.

bgadow
10-04-2015, 10:07 PM
A S-C color set is on my short list. I've seen one at another collector's house and have often wondered if he still has it.

Sandy G
10-04-2015, 10:28 PM
VERY kewl set !

Kevin Kuehn
10-04-2015, 11:39 PM
Love it! :thmbsp:

I'm hoping to find me a Setchell color roundy too some day. I have found a latter 60's SC rectangular set, which I understand is also quite uncommon.

Findm-Keepm
10-04-2015, 11:43 PM
Awesome, and rare....I've seen just four SC sets in 30+ years of repairing them. Only one was a color set - Dad took it in from another dealer to fix, as the other dealer was terrified of "that oddball thing" - so SC sets got the nickname "oddball" with Dad.

I have an SC B/w set myself - low emission CRT on mine, a classroom set with key locked control door...someone else here has the same set, IIRC...

Zenith26kc20
10-05-2015, 04:59 PM
When I was in high school I helped out at a TV shop that sold S C. They were good sellers for odd locations (oil rigs in the gulf for one), where service was not easy (helicopter ride). The modular chassis made repairs easier than the normal repair as the tech could bring the needed modules with him and take the defective one back and repair it in the shop. I do remember thinking how strange they looked.

ChrisW6ATV
10-06-2015, 01:24 AM
That set is awesome!

I installed and repaired Setchell-Carlson (later Audiotronics, then Dotronix) commercial CCTV monitors for decades, and they (all black-and-white ones in my case) all used plug-in modules into the mid-1980s or later in some cases. To see a color, tube-based set with the same module concept is really cool.

tvcollector
10-06-2015, 01:26 AM
WOW.. I love that set...

ChrisW6ATV
10-06-2015, 01:27 AM
That tilt-down panel with the convergence controls is a nice design feature, too.

etype2
10-06-2015, 11:01 AM
I think you got the better deal. Advanced engineering, this kinda thing is right up my alley. I like different.

Everything looks so neat and organized.

sampson159
10-06-2015, 07:38 PM
in almost 55 years dabbling in the business,i ve only came across 1 setchell carlson color set.it was a 23v set with a rauland crt.looked well built and pretty nice wood cabinet.tuner was shot but it was a very good looking set.

Arcanine
10-06-2015, 08:16 PM
Those adjustments were well thought out on placement. You know, the front of the TV, where you can see what you're adjusting. In genius design right there!

dieseljeep
10-06-2015, 09:14 PM
in almost 55 years dabbling in the business,i ve only came across 1 setchell carlson color set.it was a 23v set with a rauland crt.looked well built and pretty nice wood cabinet.tuner was shot but it was a very good looking set.

The only Setchell Carlson color set, I worked on was a 23V set with a RCA 25XP22, that was bad.
Typical S-C quality, but nothing real special. The color circuitry was pure RCA CTC15 clone. :boring:

AUdubon5425
10-06-2015, 11:11 PM
When I was in high school I helped out at a TV shop that sold S C. They were good sellers for odd locations (oil rigs in the gulf for one), where service was not easy (helicopter ride). The modular chassis made repairs easier than the normal repair as the tech could bring the needed modules with him and take the defective one back and repair it in the shop. I do remember thinking how strange they looked.
Just curious...which shop sold S.C. in N.O.?

zenithfan1
10-13-2015, 11:13 PM
I really can't wait to restore this set! I will update this thread as soon as work begins :) :banana:

wkand
10-14-2015, 01:04 AM
Unit-ized chassis?

Yes Unit-ized meant modular. The very first modular TV, I think. Schools loved the black and white models. They ran forever. I did not know that S-C made color sets that way. Awesome score.

WISCOJIM
10-14-2015, 02:39 AM
Mark, what is the model number of this set? I'm curious to look up the schematic.

Kevin Kuehn
10-14-2015, 12:41 PM
Should be the U800 chassis. I have a 50 page factory installation and maintenance manual for this chassis. Has fold out's, so it's a bit of challenge for me to scan. If I can get it to look decent, I'll forward the scans the ETF. This chassis features push pull audio. :)

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Setchell%20Carlson%20Color%20Roundy/Setchell%20Carlson%20Color%20Roundy_zpshti6ggtf.jp g

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Setchell%20Carlson%20Color%20Roundy/Setchell%20Carlson%20Color%20Roundy%20001_zpscjgx1 wgm.jpg

jstout66
10-14-2015, 01:06 PM
that is a cool set. I never saw a Setchell-Carlson in person, so they must be rare in this area of Nebraska. One set I DO remember ( and was wondering if anybody else serviced one) Not as well built as this Setchell looks, but we had a late 60's Truetone on our service route and its whole chassis was modular as well. (even the board with the flyback) Not sure who made it, but I'm thinking Wells Gardner? Anyway.. it was so odd for me to see a set with plug in modules that had tubes on them.

WISCOJIM
10-14-2015, 01:13 PM
Should be the U800 chassis. I have a 50 page factory installation and maintenance manual for this chassis. Has fold out's, so it's a bit of challenge for me to scan. If I can get it to look decent, I'll forward the scans the ETF. This chassis features push pull audio. :)
Kevin, that looks like a very interesting manual. Hope the scans turn out well!

.

Kevin Kuehn
10-14-2015, 02:29 PM
Jim, the two scans I posted today are from a sales brochure.

WISCOJIM
10-14-2015, 02:55 PM
Jim, the two scans I posted today are from a sales brochure.Ahh...very nice.

.

DavGoodlin
10-15-2015, 02:50 PM
What a slick TV!
RCA used to tout the "printed copper circuits" over old-fashioned hand-wiring.
We all know how that turned out!

That tube lineup is certainly RCA in color and sweep section but the tuner, IF, video sync and sound are not.
Seems more like Motorola or is it a genuine S-C design ?

Thanks Kevin, that specification is priceless. A real poke at RCA if I ever saw one.

Olorin67
10-15-2015, 04:03 PM
I suspect they used RCAs circuit designs for the color and CRT-realted circuits, but they probably adapted existing modules from their B&W TV lines where they could. I have a B&S B&W set that also uses push pull audio. Many SC sets had a record changer optional.

wa2ise
10-15-2015, 04:43 PM
RCA used to tout the "printed copper circuits" over old-fashioned hand-wiring.
We all know how that turned out!



Zenith used to make a big deal about their TVs being "hand crafted". Though the funny looking terminal strips and tube sockets allowed the "crafters" to quickly stuff part leads into the terminals, and then they were wave soldered.

Electronic M
10-15-2015, 06:38 PM
The gold plated tuner contacts and video IF tube complement make me think they borrowed(or got inspiration for) some of their receiver design from Zenith.

I've always liked hand-wired sets better from a maintenance stand point.

Kevin Kuehn
10-15-2015, 10:55 PM
Zenith used to make a big deal about their TVs being "hand crafted". Though the funny looking terminal strips and tube sockets allowed the "crafters" to quickly stuff part leads into the terminals, and then they were wave soldered.

I always thought wave soldered meant that PC boards were soldered by lowering them into a vat of molten solder. I'm not sure how a point to point wired chassis could be wave soldered without damaging plastic components and wire insulation. :scratch2:

Kevin Kuehn
10-26-2015, 07:17 PM
Here's the link to the U800 manual that I scanned and Steve put up on the ETF site. The missing page numbers represent blank back sides in the actual manual.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Setchell-Carlson-u800-manual.pdf

WISCOJIM
10-26-2015, 10:06 PM
Kevin, that turned out very nice. Thanks for making it available for everyone.

.

Geoff Bourquin
10-27-2015, 12:16 AM
I have seen exactly one of those Setchell Carlson color sets. It was over 30 years ago, and the guy I was working for talked the customer into tossing it. I still remember helping hoist it into the dumpster. I went back after everyone went home and salvaged the cabinet. The cabinet was slightly different than yours. That chassis made a lasting impression. For the last 15 or so years I have thought about how I should have saved the chassis too. I don't remember what came of the CRT but I imagine it was necked. I wanted the cabinet to put my Magnavox T-809 into. I was lucky, there was barely a scratch on the wood when I got it home.
I think I still have the cabinet in storage. I should see if there is a model number inside it somewhere. The Magnavox that lived in it for a while is long gone.

Kevin Kuehn
10-27-2015, 12:13 PM
The cabinet was slightly different than yours.

Possibly you can spot your cabinet here: http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Sechell-Carlson-brochure.pdf There was also a French Provincial Cabinet.

I think I still have the cabinet in storage. I should see if there is a model number inside it somewhere. The Magnavox that lived in it for a while is long gone.

The model number would be printed on the back cover.

Telecruiser
10-28-2015, 01:26 PM
Somewhere in the back of my mind, there was a connection between Setchell Carlson and Ball-Miratel who made color video monitors. Am I imagining this? Ball also made (still makes) glass jars for home canning... Go figure.

ohohyodafarted
10-29-2015, 06:18 PM
in the early 70's Ball also was in the computer business. I recall they were making disc drives.

Olorin67
10-29-2015, 08:01 PM
Setchell Carlson was sold by the founders around 1966, to Marquette Electronics, who went bankrupt a little over a year later, before they had fully paid the founders. Bart Setchell got nothing, because he made sure all the other shareholders were paid first. 3M bought most of it- mainly to get SC's plant in New Brighton. For a little while the School TVs were re-branded as Wollensak products- also owned by 3M. I have a Wollensak branded school TV(mid '68 date codes), with 3M stickers on some of the modules. 3M sold the S-C product lines to Audiotronics (famous for school record players) not long after that, I have another School TV from mid '69, that is branded Setchell Carlson, but still mentions Marquette on the sticker on the back. Audiotronics continued the S-C name on video gear. Not sure what the connection to Ball is, maybe that came later. One reference I found said Miratel had a plant in St. Paul and was started by Ex S-C employees. SC also had a plant in St. paul, maybe that became the Miratel plant after the Marquette Electronics bankruptcy.

Kevin Kuehn
10-30-2015, 12:01 AM
I have a couple rectangular color sets that were made in 68. So now I wonder who made those sets? The back covers and chassis still say Setchell Carlson, Saint Paul MN. No mention of Marquette Electronics, 3M or Audiotronics. I wonder if Bart still had some connection at this late time?

Electronic M
10-30-2015, 01:52 AM
I have a couple rectangular color sets that were made in 68. So now I wonder who made those sets? The back covers and chassis still say Setchell Carlson, Saint Paul MN. No mention of Marquette Electronics, 3M or Audiotronics. I wonder if Bart still had some connection at this late time?

If you ever feel like selling one of those rectangular SC color sets let me know.

maxm
10-30-2015, 10:00 PM
Years ago I had one of the Ball-Miratel color video monitors that I purchased at an estate sale. It was missing some parts and I never got to see it working. I sold to another collector, I'm not sure if they ever got it going. There can't be too many of them still around.

Kevin Kuehn
10-31-2015, 12:53 AM
Very fascinating. That actually has the same SC units as my 68 color sets, less the IF unit, and I see they beefed up the power supply for full time studio use. Thanks for sharing these photo's, maxm. Apologies to Zenithfan for us hijacking his color roundy post, but some of this history is very interesting.

dieseljeep
10-31-2015, 10:26 AM
Somewhere in the back of my mind, there was a connection between Setchell Carlson and Ball-Miratel who made color video monitors. Am I imagining this? Ball also made (still makes) glass jars for home canning... Go figure.
The green monochrome monitors used on machine tools were made by Ball Bros. The logo was the same as the packaging products.
Ball also owns the old Schlitz can plant on the northwest side of Milwaukee.
Miller brewery uses their products, exclusively. :thmbsp:

Kevin Kuehn
10-31-2015, 12:43 PM
Here's a little timeline of Ball Miratel's video monitor operation. It's still sketchy who was manufacturing the consumer division of Setchell Carlson TV's during the late 60's.

http://www.tech-notes.tv/History&Trivia/Monitors/Ball%20Brothers/ball_brothers.htm

dieseljeep
10-31-2015, 01:33 PM
Here's a little timeline of Ball Miratel's video monitor operation. It's still sketchy who was manufacturing the consumer division of Setchell Carlson TV's during the late 60's.

http://www.tech-notes.tv/History&Trivia/Monitors/Ball%20Brothers/ball_brothers.htm

The firm I worked at bought three CNC machine tools in 1978. The one with the Bendix control had a Setchell Carlson display, the Giddings & Lewis controls, had Ball Brothers displays.
I didn't think, there was any relationship between the two.
Other strange manufacturing relationships, like Helena Rubenstein building R390 receivers. :scratch2:

Electronic M
10-31-2015, 03:21 PM
Years ago I had one of the Ball-Miratel color video monitors that I purchased at an estate sale. It was missing some parts and I never got to see it working. I sold to another collector, I'm not sure if they ever got it going. There can't be too many of them still around.

:drool: :drool: :drool: I want one of those.

zenithfan1
11-01-2015, 08:04 PM
Don't worry about hijacking the thread lol. The history of these sets has been a good read!

zenithfan1
11-01-2015, 08:27 PM
Thanks for sharing that manual Kevin. I was just looking it over and these things are built like a tank. I really can't wait to see what kind of picture I can get on this thing. The audio section looks good for blasting music videos lol

holmesuser01
11-01-2015, 08:55 PM
Seeing that service manual makes me want a S-C set very badly.

Electronic M
11-01-2015, 09:33 PM
Here's a little timeline of Ball Miratel's video monitor operation. It's still sketchy who was manufacturing the consumer division of Setchell Carlson TV's during the late 60's.

http://www.tech-notes.tv/History&Trivia/Monitors/Ball%20Brothers/ball_brothers.htm

An interesting read, but considering that was taken from reports to share holders, and HOW BADLY those reports to the holders were written, I'm surprised anyone wanted to own their stock......It's like they hired a grade school kid to write their reports.:thumbsdn:

Kevin Kuehn
11-03-2015, 11:11 PM
Don't worry about hijacking the thread lol. The history of these sets has been a good read!

Here's a fun little read, although it's kind of sparse on pictures. Apparently they weren't too keen on showing pictures of their new plants. It's really amazing to think they went from putting up two new facilities, to selling off the company in a matter of a few years. I guess things have always happened fast in the electronics industry.

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson%2001_zpsvufjii4v.jpg

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson%2002_zpsbqlxvblc.jpg

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson%2003_zpslmhru4n6.jpg

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson/Who%20Is%20Setchell%20Carlson%2004_zps7hv4khwm.jpg

ChrisW6ATV
11-06-2015, 10:30 PM
Somewhere in the back of my mind, there was a connection between Setchell Carlson and Ball-Miratel who made color video monitors. Am I imagining this? Ball also made (still makes) glass jars for home canning... Go figure.
Aside from both being in Minnesota, one connection is, they both sold a LOT of black-and-white monitors to the airport/airline video display industry. For over thirty years, I paid a lot of bills fixing monitors of both brands. The Ball Brothers TD-23, in particular, I should have the schematic diagram memorized by now. R162 15k, R164 15 ohms, R165 33 ohms 2 watts...

Olorin67
11-06-2015, 11:39 PM
Miratel does seem to have been a spin-off originally of S-C, either started by S-C employees, or a former SC plant or product lines spun off when the company was sold. One reference I found said Miratel (MInnesota RAdio TElevision) was started by ex SC employees.