View Full Version : WTB: 1964 Zenith cloverleaf roundie convergence coils


old_tv_nut
08-31-2015, 09:46 PM
Hope I didn't miss the right place to post.

Anyone familiar with the early Zenith roundies will recognize the reason for this want ad - the convergence magnet assembly "cloverleaf" on my '64 "coffin" combo is really brittle - cracked in two places and held together with tape and tie wraps. Any more age and stress and it probably is gone forever. Afraid to tighten it down at this point. Actually I have another one in a restorable set that is just as bad, but would settle for one not so bad for now.

So, looking for one in better shape to buy. Any parts out there?



While we're on the subject, looking at these things makes me wonder if a 3-D printed replacement is feasible.

Findm-Keepm
08-31-2015, 10:00 PM
Hope I didn't miss the right place to post.

Anyone familiar with the early Zenith roundies will recognize the reason for this want ad - the convergence magnet assembly "cloverleaf" on my '64 "coffin" combo is really brittle - cracked in two places and held together with tape and tie wraps. Any more age and stress and it probably is gone forever. Afraid to tighten it down at this point. Actually I have another one in a restorable set that is just as bad, but would settle for one not so bad for now.

So, looking for one in better shape to buy. Any parts out there?



While we're on the subject, looking at these things makes me wonder if a 3-D printed replacement is feasible.

I've got a buddy in the plastics business - he may know what plastic would be best - ABS softens (he has an ABS vacuum forming machine with a 440V 6'x8' heater), so it would probably be a composite plastic of some sort. It seems if a 3D printer can soften the filament, so would the neck temperatures.

I'm gonna ask - and no, I have no Zenith cloverleaf, or knowledge of where to find one.

DavGoodlin
09-01-2015, 08:28 AM
I've got a buddy in the plastics business - he may know what plastic would be best - ABS softens (he has an ABS vacuum forming machine with a 440V 6'x8' heater), so it would probably be a composite plastic of some sort. It seems if a 3D printer can soften the filament, so would the neck temperatures.

I'm gonna ask - and no, I have no Zenith cloverleaf, or knowledge of where to find one.



A few of us were thinking about reproducing this and many other parts like RCA yoke covers with a 3D printer:sigh:

dieseljeep
09-01-2015, 11:12 AM
Hope I didn't miss the right place to post.

Anyone familiar with the early Zenith roundies will recognize the reason for this want ad - the convergence magnet assembly "cloverleaf" on my '64 "coffin" combo is really brittle - cracked in two places and held together with tape and tie wraps. Any more age and stress and it probably is gone forever. Afraid to tighten it down at this point. Actually I have another one in a restorable set that is just as bad, but would settle for one not so bad for now.

So, looking for one in better shape to buy. Any parts out there?



While we're on the subject, looking at these things makes me wonder if a 3-D printed replacement is feasible.

What would be wrong with replacing the entire convergence magnet assembly, unless you want it to be super-pure!
Just the magnet assembly, not the convergence control panel. The magnet coils must be about the same or close.
IIRC, I have two of the last Zenith roundies and they have the same style coils as Magnavox and others. You know, the ones with the color-coded coils.
The replacements, I bought ages ago, were made of a different color plastic.
The Zenith distributor in Milwaukee, had just about everything you ever needed for the repair of Zenith products.

old_tv_nut
09-01-2015, 02:10 PM
What would be wrong with replacing the entire convergence magnet assembly, unless you want it to be super-pure!
Just the magnet assembly, not the convergence control panel. The magnet coils must be about the same or close.
IIRC, I have two of the last Zenith roundies and they have the same style coils as Magnavox and others. You know, the ones with the color-coded coils.
The replacements, I bought ages ago, were made of a different color plastic.
The Zenith distributor in Milwaukee, had just about everything you ever needed for the repair of Zenith products.

Of course I meant the whole assembly. Although the frame itself might be sufficient, I'm not sure why anyone selling the frame would want to keep the coils without it. So, anything that fixes my problem.

miniman82
09-01-2015, 03:01 PM
Question: I always hear about these things breaking apart on people, is it not possible to use the assembly off an RCA or other set? None of the ones on any of my sets are breaking down, seems like a more permanent fix is in order.

old_tv_nut
09-01-2015, 03:11 PM
I don't know if different makers had different coils / inductances driven to different currents with different driving voltages. Eventually, the magnetic fields in the tube should be the same, but you might get the fields with lower current / more turns or higher current / fewer turns.

tvdude1
09-02-2015, 05:56 PM
I found 2 from Moyer last month

old_tv_nut
09-02-2015, 06:02 PM
what search terms do you use?

tvdude1
09-04-2015, 08:09 PM
Moyer electronics in P.A. They have 3 stores ask for Bill he knows his old tvs

old_tv_nut
09-05-2015, 05:34 PM
Moyer electronics in P.A. They have 3 stores ask for Bill he knows his old tvs

Thanks.

Currently in the throes of closing on a house, haven't had time to even touch the set since Doug was here to plug it all back together.

reeferman
09-08-2015, 10:38 PM
Wayne,
I have a NOS cloverleaf I'm saving for that "yet to find Zenith".
You are more than welcome to use it as a model for making reproductions.
PM me if interested.
Phil

old_tv_nut
09-09-2015, 02:51 PM
That might be an interesting project IF I was retired already.

dieseljeep
09-09-2015, 03:11 PM
Wayne,
I have a NOS cloverleaf I'm saving for that "yet to find Zenith".
You are more than welcome to use it as a model for making reproductions.
PM me if interested.
Phil

What color is it? IIRC, the replacements were a different color than the originals. :scratch2:

reeferman
09-09-2015, 11:34 PM
Nope, same color.

Tubejunke
09-10-2015, 02:17 AM
What color is it? IIRC, the replacements were a different color than the originals. :scratch2:

This is the second reference to color. I assume the color of the plastic. My 64 or 5 Zenith has what I consider to be the more common of cloverleafs that I have seen being that each magnet casing is the color of the electron gun it is controlling. So mine is red, blue and green. It's not a replacement and looks like the ones I saw decades ago. What am I getting wrong? Just curious....:scratch2:

old_tv_nut
09-10-2015, 10:38 AM
My two broken ones are entirely off-white, not RGB.

dieseljeep
09-10-2015, 11:11 AM
My two broken ones are entirely off-white, not RGB.

Yours are the original Zenith issue.
IIRC, the last two model years, probably M & N, Zenith decided to use a purchased cloverleaf, instead of their own. They still made the convergence control board with the coils that would crumble. :sigh:

dieseljeep
09-10-2015, 11:15 AM
This is the second reference to color. I assume the color of the plastic. My 64 or 5 Zenith has what I consider to be the more common of cloverleafs that I have seen being that each magnet casing is the color of the electron gun it is controlling. So mine is red, blue and green. It's not a replacement and looks like the ones I saw decades ago. What am I getting wrong? Just curious....:scratch2:

I just discussed this with a friend that collected a lot of old Zenith parts and agreed the last of the roundies used the RGB colored magnets. :sigh:

reeferman
09-10-2015, 06:28 PM
I changed a LOT of cloverleafs in the day.
21" sets employing a cloverleaf had (interchangeable) magnets used for static adjustment. They were not color coded.

Period.

They were identical and could be used with any convergence coil. I sometimes had to swap magnets when they became weak and not give the range on 1 gun but would on another. I believe the wires going to each of the 3 coil assemblies were color coded.

25" sets had the 3 separate color coded plastic encased coils with magnet that when assembled was the convergence assembly.

I don't remember any 21" tubes using the encased assembly but I guess it is possible.

Findm-Keepm
09-10-2015, 06:39 PM
I changed a LOT of cloverleafs in the day.
21" sets employing a cloverleaf had (interchangeable) magnets used for static adjustment. They were not color coded.

Period.

They were identical and could be used with any convergence coil. I sometimes had to swap magnets when they became weak and not give the range on 1 gun but would on another. I believe the wires going to each of the 3 coil assemblies were color coded.

25" sets had the 3 separate color coded plastic encased coils with magnet that when assembled was the convergence assembly.

I don't remember any 21" tubes using the encased assembly but I guess it is possible.

Only the plastic housing is color coded. Yes, the magnets and coils are interchangeable, but the cloverleaf (Plastic housing that holds the coils and magnets) had two colors - an off-white one, where all three were the same color, and an RGB one like the pic below.

What color is your NOS cloverleaf, Reeferman? White, or RGB?

reeferman
09-10-2015, 10:56 PM
What is in your picture is not a cloverleaf in the traditional sense of the word..
If you went to a Zenith parts distributor and asked for a cloverleaf, you would not get one of those.
If I can ever figure out Windows 10 I'll post a pic of one.

Findm-Keepm
09-10-2015, 11:05 PM
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=185524&d=1422039377

White one...

reeferman
09-11-2015, 08:02 AM
That's the cloverleaf in the traditional serviceman's jargon.

Findm-Keepm
09-11-2015, 10:18 AM
That's the cloverleaf in the traditional serviceman's jargon.

Both are cloverleafs in my servicing world - convergence yokes, convergence coil assembly, convergence housing.....all clover leafs.

The question is can one be 3D printed - the white cloverleaf is what folks are looking for. You answered "Nope, same color" so some (including me were still unsure of the color - was it the RGB type or the white? - which is the purpose of my clarification posts.

So I presume you have a NOS white cloverleaf?


I have a NOS cloverleaf I'm saving for that "yet to find Zenith".
You are more than welcome to use it as a model for making reproductions.

Kevin Kuehn
09-11-2015, 05:29 PM
Here's another reference picture of a white one that was posted by another VK member a while back. Sorry I don't recall who it was. Interestingly my Zenith 5119(chassis 25LC30), which I thought was a 1964 model, has the red/green/blue version. So it may have been replaced at some point.

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Stromberg%20Carlson%20TC-125%20Chassis%20Cleanup/Zenith%20Convergence%20Cloverleaf_zpsxxcua3qq.jpg

dieseljeep
09-11-2015, 08:02 PM
Here's another reference picture of a white one that was posted by another VK member a while back. Sorry I don't recall who it was. Interestingly my Zenith 5119(chassis 25LC30), which I thought was a 1964 model, has the red/green/blue version. So it may have been replaced at some point.

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Stromberg%20Carlson%20TC-125%20Chassis%20Cleanup/Zenith%20Convergence%20Cloverleaf_zpsxxcua3qq.jpg

That's the number, I was trying to remember!
I know, I bought a few when I was still repairing.

nasadowsk
09-11-2015, 08:42 PM
I don't remember any 21" tubes using the encased assembly but I guess it is possible.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasadowsk/8298305054

Sylvania 580 chassis.

reeferman
09-11-2015, 10:51 PM
Yes, I now remember the multi-color convergence assemblies on the newer roundies and the rectangular tubes. Thank you. I don't ever recall having to replace one.

I was in the service world during the period, and asking for a replacement cloverleaf at the parts house got you the "white" one.

Remember, this thread started out looking for a replacement "white" cloverleaf for a '64 Zenith. Not the multi-color assemblies.

Findm-Keepm
09-12-2015, 01:21 AM
Of course I meant the whole assembly. Although the frame itself might be sufficient, I'm not sure why anyone selling the frame would want to keep the coils without it. So, anything that fixes my problem.

So could you use an RGB style, or are you going for originality?

Doug may have one in the RGB style, seen in his video for his 25MC30 set:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo8n3jLoM_U

At 1:46 in Doug's video you see the RGB Convergence Assembly, what Zenith used in later years, when they abandoned the white cloverleaf and coils. Interchangeability is assured if the plugs on the assemblies are the same - the chassis are wired alike (per Telematic jig lit).

I don't have one, but do have a line on a Zenith roundie combo of undetermined vintage - it's an estate sale regret a buddy purchased and stored in his uncles place. That's my only dog in this hunt.

Cheers,