Okay. Here is what I have to work with;

I live in Pell Lake, Wisconsin. I'm 58 miles from most of the Chicago transmission antennas (John Hancock & Sears Tower), and 44 miles from the Milwaukee antenna farm.

I have a small radio tower in my backyard, to the top, is 20 feet in the air.

While I was out in Portland, Oregon, I did a little Goodwill shopping and I got a brand new Insignia DTV Converter box. I was looking for this model specifically, because it has good reviews and it's actually very sensitive, and responsive. I got it for $14.99, brand new!

Just for the hell of it, I hooked it up to my outside FM (88-108mhz) omni-directional antenna to see if I can grab anything, and to my complete and total surprise I get quite a lot of signals. Both from Milwaukee, and Chicago. It works better when the sun goes down, I can get the lower channels fine after it's dark. During the day I can only get a couple of the high channels.

So I am shopping for a good, outdoor, antenna that will serve my needs.

I like the ones that have the small rotor built in, since I am between Chicago and Milwaukee, and both are with in range of reception, so I like to be able to aim the antenna at either city if I like.

I come from the era of, the bigger and higher your TV beam is, the clearer your picture is and the more channels you can get. I don't see the need for a monster beam anymore, given I get so much off a little FM antenna.

What are good choices?

Well if you get what you want now (almost) ..... just add a distribution amp and don't
mess with a new antenna.....

When I was in college OSU we were 60~ miles from OKC and we got nothing..... I went
to RS got a $20. rabbit ears on a plastic base put it in the closet, got nothing.... Got a really
good quality distribution amp added it and got every channel crystal clear... I was the
talk of the dorms... 2nd floor brick & steel modern building.... (analog days) The lobby at
the time had a roof antenna (12 floors).... I had thought about finding that line and tapping
into it.... but been in enough of that kinda trouble already...

Now you know OK is flat, and almost no trees, so if I had a big enough binoculars I could
go on the roof and see OKC from Stillwater....

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Check the Radio Shack stores in your area that are going out of business. Some of those up here still had a lot of antenna related inventory when they got down to 80 & 90 percent off.

I've seen these going for $17.20:

http://www.radioshack.com/antennacraft-colorstar-c490-hdtv-vhf-uhf-fm-antenna/1500267.html#.VPOOgHzF98E

And these for $20.00:

http://www.radioshack.com/antennacraft-hbu55-high-vhf-uhf-antenna/1500279.html#start=2

Antenna rotors for $12.00:

http://www.radioshack.com/outdoor-antenna-rotator/1501245.html#start=3

10-foot masts for $2.00:

http://www.radioshack.com/antennacraft-10-ft-16-gauge-mast/1500298.html#.VPOQoHzF98E

5-foot masts for $1.50:

http://www.radioshack.com/antennacraft-5-ft-16-gauge-mast/1500297.html#q=antenna%2Bmast&start=2

3-foot tripods for $7.00.

http://www.radioshack.com/antennacraft-heavy-duty-3-foot-tripod-mount/1500293.html#q=antenna%2Btripod&start=2

33db antenna mount amplifier for $13.40.

http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack-antenna-mounted-high-gain-signal-amplifier/1500526.html#q=antenna%2Bamplifier&start=3

and lots more...like all the hardware and cables you'd want for an installation.

As far as those small flimsy plastic antennas with the built in rotors, many advertise as much as 150-mile range. Okay, maybe if you have a 1,000 foot tower that may be believable. Lots of the online reviews I've seen indicate many can't handle wind, they freeze up and won't turn when icy, and many with the built in amplifiers die after the first electrical storm passes. I'd like to try a few in comparison to my Radio Shack VU-210, but I wouldn't count on them performing well at all, or lasting through a winter.

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I gotta go check out RS this week, their antenna masts are thicker and very well
coated with some good paint, far better than masts that cost much more !

And their antennas are Antenna Craft from what I remember.... Also very good !

That HBU55 antenna looks like my hd7698p from winegard.... fo $20. I'd get 2 !

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By all means, try an amp, but there really is no substitute for height. I presume your house is one story, so the 20 foot tower is higher than your rooftop?

Too bad youre not near me with a $50 bill. I have an antenna the height of a house and the width of a car, Was a DXing dream and would totaly kill on top of that tower :D

SR

By all means, try an amp, but there really is no substitute for height. I presume your house is one story, so the 20 foot tower is higher than your rooftop?

Yeah it's over the roof of my house, but barely. The antenna is not even remotely meant for TV reception but it works.

I hooked up an amplifier. It helped some but not as much as a real antenna.

One thing to beware of is that noise, ghosting, and the like can prevent a DTV box from tuning a strong enough signal, so a strong noisy preamp (some are better than others) with a mediocre antenna can be worse than a good antenna with no amp...

Another option, if you are adventurous, is to drive through an older neighborhood and look for a good specimen on the roof of a home that clearly has cable or satellite, and offer to remove the 'ugly' antenna from their roof for free on the condition that you are allowed to keep the antenna. Some of the classic TV antennas were worlds better than anything made now.

Yah- EM has a good idea there.... I once stopped to ask someone if they still used their
antenna, it was nice looking big and newer, they said no, and offered it to me if I
would remove it..... I did not, I was just wondering If I was the only one on the street
using an antenna..... From what I found out talking to the TWC guy that stops in
once a year to try and get me to use cable, I am the last antenna user on my street.

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I'm waiting for the weather to break. I have a new RS Antenna Craft and an RCA remote control rotor, that I want to install on my new shop. I use 3/4 electrical EMT, as it's stronger and cheaper than antenna masting.
Jim and Tom are spot-on with their entries. Those crummy toy plastic antennas with the built-in rotor aren't worth the space they take up.

It's possible that even though your FM (channel 6) omni seems to be doing great you're probably only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Get the biggest antenna that you can stand asthetically. You can never have too much antenna and you can never have too many stations.

I took the liberty of doing a TV Fool of Pell Lake. I put the antenna up 500 feet to get the lay of the land. It looks like maybe you have Madison to the northwest and something to the southwest (not that familiar with WI geography):

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=186072&d=1425691812

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=186073&d=1425691864

It's only marginally more difficult to install a big antenna than it is to install an average one. And once it's done you won't be wondering every time some marginal DX starts to break up and drop out. You'll know you made a good effort.

Here's an AK thread about members' antennas (TV, FM, AM) but unfortunately you might have to log in to see the attachments:

Antenna Pix: DIY and Store Bought (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=566808)

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I'm lustin' after a 40-60' tall Rohn triangular tower. Where I live in NE Tennessee, the lay of the land & mountain ranges, means I have an EFFECTIVE range from Roanoke, Virginia, to Atlanta, goin' the other way, North to south. East to west isn't QUITE as good, but I STILL can pull in Carolina stations like gangbusters, but going WEST, it pretty much dries up. My problem is that I can't find an outfit that will even TALK to me about begging, borrowing, stealing, or BUYING an antenna... YOU don't want that, & it costs WAY too much to ship an antenny to Heifer Junction.. I even have me a GIGANTIC Winegard to put atop of the putative Rohn, all I need is a rotatorator, a distribution amp, & I'll be all set. I have, lessee now, an ICOM R-7000, a Hallicrafters SX-62A, 2 Nems-Clarke Special Communication receivers that have KILLER FM BCB specs, & we won't even mention my Yamaha RX-V1, that CRIES OUT to be fed a decent FM signal..

I am in the market for one too, is anyone using the STEALTHtenna 50 from Channel Master? It looks like a pretty solid offering at $29.

http://cdn3.volusion.com/m5ytq.j6phj/v/vspfiles/photos/CM-3010HD-2.jpg?1414424473

I'm lustin' after a 40-60' tall Rohn triangular tower. Where I live in NE Tennessee, the lay of the land & mountain ranges, means I have an EFFECTIVE range from Roanoke, Virginia, to Atlanta, goin' the other way, North to south. East to west isn't QUITE as good, but I STILL can pull in Carolina stations like gangbusters, but going WEST, it pretty much dries up. My problem is that I can't find an outfit that will even TALK to me about begging, borrowing, stealing, or BUYING an antenna... YOU don't want that, & it costs WAY too much to ship an antenny to Heifer Junction.. I even have me a GIGANTIC Winegard to put atop of the putative Rohn, all I need is a rotatorator, a distribution amp, & I'll be all set. I have, lessee now, an ICOM R-7000, a Hallicrafters SX-62A, 2 Nems-Clarke Special Communication receivers that have KILLER FM BCB specs, & we won't even mention my Yamaha RX-V1, that CRIES OUT to be fed a decent FM signal..

Here is a nutty idea for a cheap hill billy tenna tower. Do ya know anybody that you could talk into putting up a 20'-30' wood utility pole (or turning a convenient tree into a good approximation)? If so and you could source or splice together something like a 30'-40' length of 4X4 you could make a real handy tower by drilling a big hole in the top of the pole, and a similar one about 2/3 of the way down the 4x4. Join the two holes with a BIG freakin' nut and bolt to act as a hinge. Add a small (stop) board midway up the pole to prevent the tower from being able to hinge down in more than 1 direction (it should block the short end of the 4x4 from hinging past the post in one direction). Run a steel cable from the end of the 4x4 closest the hinge hole through the pulley to a winch at the bottom of the pole.

What you should have at the end is a 30-40' tower the top half of which hinges down to the bottom for easy antenna service, and for protection of the antenna in storms. You could substitute other materials also....Like if you could offer to dispose of a couple of 30-40' flag poles for someone (you'd need to enlist a welder and or a rather brawny drill for that). The top half only needs to be able to support it's own weight and the antenna, but the bottom half will need to be sturdier.

If you can get the materials, and help cheap enough it would probably be better than a tower for you, since instead of climbing it to fix issues you can make the top come to you. If you want I could draw you a picture to illustrate the idea better.

How about a tethered balloon? You could use fishing line and stakes to aim it. :D

How about a tethered balloon? You could use fishing line and stakes to aim it. :D

You are reminding me of the time I flew my kite using magnet wire from a deflection yoke as the kite 'string'. I hooked the antenna of my Sony SW portable up to it and did some scanning, but I don't think it stayed up long enough for memorable reception to occur.....

I've TRIED to get the local Electric Co-Op to put me up a tall pole, but they steadfastly refuse to, on liability grounds... It's like there's a Force-Field Against Towers operatin' in this area...

Keep yer eye on CL, there have been several 40' towers for free around here for
those who would remove them. I bet same goes for flag poles.... Liability issues
and stuff like that..... Just be sure top of pole won't hit house in big storm on it's
way down..... :)

I have seen a few, and don't really see the point in putting up a tower right next to
yer house with an antenna on top, if it's just 10' or less taller than yer house.....?
Was it insurance issue...? And by next to I mean within 12 feet...

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My house is brick, & my plan-whether I end up w/a Rohn, or a light pole-would be to FIRMLY attach either one I end up with, TO the house as added support. I'm German background, & I fully believe in "Over-Engineering" EVERYTHING...(grin)

My house is brick, & my plan-whether I end up w/a Rohn, or a light pole-would be to FIRMLY attach either one I end up with, TO the house as added support. I'm German background, & I fully believe in "Over-Engineering" EVERYTHING...(grin)

As a fellow Deutschlander by blood, I share your approval of over-engineering things.


However, firmly affixing an antenna tower to a brick (masonry) building often times results in structural damage from the ever-present variations in wind-loading. (Strangely this contradicts the Three Little Pigs strategy.)

My personal learning experience with this was recommending the chimney-mounting of a large (15' or so.) VHF/UHF TV-RO unit on at a co-worker's parents house. Everything worked great for over a year, and then they started hearing weird noises at times. Essentially it had sheared off the top half of the chimney (between the two mount straps) and the only thing keeping it together was the weight and the mast. The noises they heard were essentially 400lbs of brick sliding back and forth by half an inch or so...


I felt really awful about them having to pay to have things repaired, since more or less I was the "engineer" who signed off on the design. :tears:


I'm positive there's perfectly solid ways to mount your skyhook to a masonry structure, but I'd seek advice from someone who works with brick and mortar for a living first. :thmbsp:

Yeah, you're prolly right... Most of MY engineering is by simple "Dead Reckoning"-If it LOOKS strong enuff, go ahead & DOUBLE it, then you KNOW it will be... Wonder if they have many Redneck Hillbillies in Der Fodderlundt ?!? (grin)

Working in home construction in Atlanta from the 90's to 2000, I discovered that
"brick houses" are really just brick faced, no strength, and often not really even
attached to the house. I watched several brick houses down there have their
face "fall off" within a few months - to a year or two after being completed....

They don't even use those zinc fold over tabs anymore.....
Don't tie anything to brick, unless it's like 70 years old....

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My house was built soon after the war, I THINK its pretty solid... But that would be my luck, securing everything down all nice & ship-shape, only to have a stiff wind pull pole/tower, & the whole back wall apart.. We've had a NASTY winter, an "Ice-Dam" pretty much completely de-guttered the whole shootin' match, my sweet, loving Insurance guy told me I had a $2500 deductible, & his estimate to make it ALL right again was $2100... Now, I'll Kiss yr Rosy-red Arse at high noon on any given Saturday on the steps of my county courthouse if I could find a REPUTABLE outfit who would fix my roof damage for even 2X $2100, & furthermore, give you an HOUR to draw a crowd, before I Puckered Up...

Working in home construction in Atlanta from the 90's to 2000, I discovered that
"brick houses" are really just brick faced, no strength, and often not really even
attached to the house. I watched several brick houses down there have their
face "fall off" within a few months - to a year or two after being completed....

They don't even use those zinc fold over tabs anymore.....
Don't tie anything to brick, unless it's like 70 years old....

.

Yeah new stuff is all some flavor of 'veneer over particle board (or card board)'...

I would not trust old masonry much more than new though. About 2 years ago there was one helluva wind storm here in Milwaukee, and two historic brick buildings had surprising masonry failures. One was IIRC 'The Historic Pabst Pub', and had the better part of the bricks on the 1 story tall section collapse, and has STILL not been repaired. The other building was an unused factory building along the river.....The better part of a three story multi-layer brick wall came down, and the owners of that and another similar structure next door (both of which were on the national historic register IIRC) had them both demolished.....Long story short unless it's built to withstand a nuke, always be suspicious of masonry.

I already miss the little green light next to our names when we are online.....
All this extra text is drivin me nuts !

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Yeah, you're prolly right... Most of MY engineering is by simple "Dead Reckoning"-If it LOOKS strong enuff, go ahead & DOUBLE it, then you KNOW it will be... Wonder if they have many Redneck Hillbillies in Der Fodderlundt ?!? (grin)
A good many are Rheinland-Palitinate-Black Forest Germans who emigrated to central PA, by the looks of things in the hills north and west of here.....we're cheap and like to keep old stuff working, thats why Moyer's still has our parts.

Sandy - A budget antenna mounting I've done uses 20 foot lengths of used 1"-1-1/4" galvanized steel well pipe along side the house, pushed 1-2 feet into the ground with stand-off y-brackets through-bolted into the attic space. Its just a pain to swap your antennas without a tower tho.:sigh: Dont be tempted to rely on threaded couplings that may come with the pipes, have a Farmer-neighbor to weld them together, they're happy to help in exchange for you getting thier antenna to work:D

BTW, my gutters came off as well and I sure don't expect my Insurance company to play ball either. Money only flows one-way with homeowner's policies - TO them.:mad:

My house is brick, & my plan-whether I end up w/a Rohn, or a light pole-would be to FIRMLY attach either one I end up with, TO the house as added support. I'm German background, & I fully believe in "Over-Engineering" EVERYTHING...(grin)

Hey Sandy I see you're back on the other site. I was going to say something but the thread was thick with admirers. Here's something I did back in the early Nineties to put the TOTL Winegard UHF as high as possible without getting a tower. My background is German and Scotch (the Scot keeps the German from spending too much $$$).

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=186363&d=1427675237

The growing antenna mast is loosely secured at the peak bracket and has guys with a little slack. You "grow" the mast by putting a new section in the hole, then lifting up the mast and setting it on top of the new section. Once you're done with all the sections you fill the hole and secure the peak bracket and guys.

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You guys just don't KNOW what Tortures of the Damned I've been thru the last couple weeks w/no computer access...Well, I DID have my wife's Ipad, but it wouldn't let me post anything here or on AK-I could only read stuff.