Hello to all..Anyone has a schematic or/a catalog for this Tv ? any help would be appreciated. I put 2 pictures. Thank you.

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/16/43/78/89/zenith11.jpg
http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/16/43/78/89/zenith12.jpg

TV model or chassis number would help!

It's a hybrid, possibly a 12B13C52 chassis. 1971 I think, with ultramatic tuner.

That is a nice looking Zenith!
I believe I've offered before to look up the service info for you if you can give me the chassis number.

If you don't know the chassis number, then remove the back cover and there should be a chassis number printed on a sticker on the HV cage right in plain sight, if that sticker is gone then look for one pasted to the inside of one of the sides of the cabinet.

I tend to agree with you Jon as to the most likely chassis to be in it. I have a 12B13C52 chassis set, and from literature I've seen that chassis was offered with the same control layout as marco has.

The chassis number is always the best identifier of a Zenith set IMHO since the service data is cataloged to make that the easiest number to look up, and the fact that Zenith usually offered the same chassis in various cabinets with a different model number on each cabinet.

Thank you for your nice comments.. Here is the chassis number that I saw on the label on the left side from the cabinet.

serial number : 5400070

TV chassis: 25CC55

The other numbers are illisible..


The pictures showed are from the owner before me...now my tv is in my basement but i made some efforts hey!!..lollll removing stock on it, back and in front of the tv.. well, I have lot of stock :(

First year solid state "flat chassis". Uses pass regulator
instead of the regulating transformer.
The flat chassis sets are considered by most including me
to be the best color TV's built by anyone, anytime, anywhere:yes:
You have a gem.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Zenith CM-120 service data has your set. I have the training module from 1971.

CM-series manuals show up on ebay all the time. I don't have one, nor do I see one eBay right now.

Cheers,

I have a paper copy of the factory schematic, but not the full service manual (which would include more than the schematic). I'll either scan it or take hi resolution pictures of it for you when I get the chance.

Interesting, I never knew any 1972 sets looked like that.

Zenith CM-120 service data has your set. I have the training module from 1971.

CM-series manuals show up on ebay all the time. I don't have one, nor do I see one eBay right now.

Cheers,

I would like to have it if have it in pdf lease ;) i thank you.

Interesting, I never knew any 1972 sets looked like that.

1972 !.. seems to be a 1971 but no problem

I have a paper copy of the factory schematic, but not the full service manual (which would include more than the schematic). I'll either scan it or take hi resolution pictures of it for you when I get the chance.

Okay but the schematic will help me for the caps, resistors , diode etc etc... this set works but not completely. The CRT is good and give a nice picture ...The shassis is metal , no tubes on it completely transitorized...:yes:

1972 !.. seems to be a 1971 but no problem
Like cars model year is not build year. The new TV models
started in the fall like cars. So a 1972 built in '71.
Sometimes there are early releases of top of line models.
Usually they are regional. They will have the older year
model number.

BTW there is one thing that needs to be checked before you
run this much, when you dig in let us know.

73 Zeno:smoke:

It's so close to being the ultimate flatty in my opinion. I never knew they were made with ultramatic tuners. If only the styling were anything but French Provincial. ;) My Space Command 500 console is probably the closest I can get to that in a 1973 model.

Like cars model year is not build year. The new TV models
started in the fall like cars. So a 1972 built in '71.
Sometimes there are early releases of top of line models.
Usually they are regional. They will have the older year
model number.

BTW there is one thing that needs to be checked before you
run this much, when you dig in let us know.

73 Zeno:smoke:


Actually THREE things::
1--safety caps.
2 focus divider/bleeder
3-Tripler.

It's so close to being the ultimate flatty in my opinion. I never knew they were made with ultramatic tuners. If only the styling were anything but French Provincial. ;) My Space Command 500 console is probably the closest I can get to that in a 1973 model.

Think about it. French provincial quite appropriate for PQ ! My
parents honeymooned in Q City, the set goes well with the
pictures they brought back. Some awesome architecture. Only
been to Montreal myself & it dont hold a candle to QC from
what I seen.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I would like to have it if have it in pdf lease ;) i thank you.

It's paper, and my only one. 87 pages, not an easy scan. Lots of good info, I'll see what I can do.

Cheers,

That set looks like Zenith's "The Chaumont" or "The Palma", as listed in a 1971 Zenith TV brochure I downloaded as a PDF file. I believe this file is still available from Mediafire.com, although you may have to search VK's archives to find it. VK member Doug, drh4683, scanned a bunch of those brochures onto MF.com; they are probably still there.

That set looks like Zenith's "The Chaumont" or "The Palma", as listed in a 1971 Zenith TV brochure I downloaded as a PDF file. I believe this file is still available from Mediafire.com, although you may have to search VK's archives to find it. VK member Doug, drh4683, scanned a bunch of those brochures onto MF.com; they are probably still there.



Hi Jeff... Do you have the link please?. thanks:thmbsp:

It's paper, and my only one. 87 pages, not an easy scan. Lots of good info, I'll see what I can do.
Cheers,


Thank you for the comment.. However I only need the schematic for the complete circuit. I'm sure I'm not learning you anything but mine is metal. ;) . Anyway. do your best :thmbsp:

Sams is # 1266...

I pulled the manual on this set. When you open it
look on the side of the flyback transformer. There are 2
capacitors marked 22-5001 .0018 1.6 KV.
( D & E chassii have more).
If they are white you must change them. If they are
orange they are OK to use.
The HV tripler should be examined for cracks.
The focus divider is the "rocket ship" style & rarely gave
trouble in Zeniths.
I will keep the manual handy if you have other questions

au revoir Zeno:smoke:

I pulled the manual on this set. When you open it
look on the side of the flyback transformer. There are 2
capacitors marked 22-5001 .0018 1.6 KV.
( D & E chassii have more).
If they are white you must change them. If they are
orange they are OK to use.
The HV tripler should be examined for cracks.
The focus divider is the "rocket ship" style & rarely gave
trouble in Zeniths.
I will keep the manual handy if you have other questions

au revoir Zeno:smoke:

Look again....accd. to the sams....the "rocket ship" is JUST a 200 meg. HV Bleeder. only connections are to the anode and ground. Focus comes off the tripler--and through a couple of high-value resistors on the focus board.

Actually THREE things::
1--safety caps.
2 focus divider/bleeder
3-Tripler.

Is this somthing that i need to check ?..:scratch2:

First year solid state "flat chassis". Uses pass regulator
instead of the regulating transformer.
The flat chassis sets are considered by most including me
to be the best color TV's built by anyone, anytime, anywhere:yes:
You have a gem.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I don't know what you mean by " FLAT CHASSIS " My TV uses a metal chassis..:scratch2:

I pulled the manual on this set. When you open it
look on the side of the flyback transformer. There are 2
capacitors marked 22-5001 .0018 1.6 KV.
( D & E chassii have more).
If they are white you must change them. If they are
orange they are OK to use.
The HV tripler should be examined for cracks.
The focus divider is the "rocket ship" style & rarely gave
trouble in Zeniths.
I will keep the manual handy if you have other questions

au revoir Zeno:smoke:

Merci.. I will check later because I have lot of things to do. I moved and I have to replace many things..And if you can speak french, I prefer ;)

PS: If i clic 'ON " i can see the picture but not complete. the sound is great and I do not hear crackling from inside the cabinet and the flyback .. There are no tubes either on the frame.

In french : Je vois les trois quarts de l'image dans l'écran mais les têtes des personnages sont difformes et sont penchés vers la droite..

Flat chassis refers to the way it is laid out...on a relatively FLAT metal frame. built MUCH like a tube set--but solid state. The 3 model years of flat SS chassis (along with the 4 tube hybrid sets from the same time frame, also a flat chassis construction) happen to be what many of us consider THE BEST tv sets EVER made--bar NONE.

As for the safety caps---they are on the flyback board. If white they WILL need replaced. If they look like an " orange tubular blob", known as [orange drop" they are likely OK.

I pulled the manual on this set. When you open it
look on the side of the flyback transformer. There are 2
capacitors marked 22-5001 .0018 1.6 KV.
( D & E chassii have more).
If they are white you must change them. If they are
orange they are OK to use.
I guess those C-line flat chassis don't give as much of a grace period for CRT survival, if any, when a white safety cap opens.

Flat chassis refers to the way it is laid out...on a relatively FLAT metal frame. built MUCH like a tube set--but solid state. The 3 model years of flat SS chassis (along with the 4 tube hybrid sets from the same time frame, also a flat chassis construction) happen to be what many of us consider THE BEST tv sets EVER made--bar NONE.

okay. From what I know and see. I have no tubes ( glass ) on the chassis..I have already had in the past with tubes and it was a portable RCA but I was fool rid myself 5 years ago ....

If I understand, I have a quality Tv isn't it?

okay. From what I know and see. I have no tubes ( glass ) on the chassis..I have already had in the past with tubes and it was a portable RCA but I was fool rid myself 5 years ago ....

If I understand, I have a quality Tv isn't it?
Yes you have what most believe is the best TV ever built.
I wish I had one !

Sorry only remember a few French words from my lessons
50 yrs ago. There are other members in PQ that may help
you. American English can be very hard because we have so
many accents. Northern New England is the only place that
does not have an accent !

73 Zeno:smoke:

Okay I scanned the schematic page. It is a sheet larger than 11X17" so each face is split in to two scans...It is the best I can manage right now.

I just realized the files are too large to attach to a post on this forum. Can you PM or post your email address so I can email them to you?

Look again....accd. to the sams....the "rocket ship" is JUST a 200 meg. HV Bleeder. only connections are to the anode and ground. Focus comes off the tripler--and through a couple of high-value resistors on the focus board.
You got me ! I guess I need new glasses & look more careful.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Yes you have what most believe is the best TV ever built.
I wish I had one !

Sorry only remember a few French words from my lessons
50 yrs ago. There are other members in PQ that may help
you. American English can be very hard because we have so
many accents. Northern New England is the only place that
does not have an accent !

73 Zeno:smoke:


okay i understand..At school the english language is the second language we learn ...The only english i understand is the American english.. new England not at all when someone frome England speaks to me..The pronounciation is so different...Even in USA in different states, especialy in Texas, they speak with their nose a little , so it's hard for me sometimes due to the fact I speak french. However, Quebec has many ways to speak french... harsh french i mean but that is not a problem for me..

I emailed it to you. Good luck.

okay i understand..At school the english language is the second language we learn ...The only english i understand is the American english.. new England not at all when someone frome England speaks to me..The pronounciation is so different...Even in USA in different states, especialy in Texas, they speak with their nose a little , so it's hard for me sometimes due to the fact I speak french. However, Quebec has many ways to speak french... harsh french i mean but that is not a problem for me..
It is my understanding that English is the most challenging language to learn.

I emailed it to you. Good luck.

Yes I received the folder.. I sent you a message and I thank you very much , you save my life :):thmbsp:

It is my understanding that English is the most challenging language to learn.


yes you're right.. so many abreviations even in english or french..:D

Actually THREE things::

1--safety caps.
2 focus divider/bleeder
3-Tripler.

Hi rca2000. Can you tell me the problems with the 3 items ?

Where are the safety caps

Focus divider/bleeder seem seem to be okay and working good

tripler : there's no cracks at first view and I don't hear any cracky sound.

As for the safety caps---they are on the flyback board. If white they WILL need replaced. If they look like an " orange tubular blob", known as [orange drop" they are likely OK.


There's no white caps on the flyback board.All i have are most in this style:

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/17/86/46/04/conden10.jpg

I hope that help you

Those are fine. Check for white caps under the chassis too. There's an access panel under the cabinet.

Those are fine. Check for white caps under the chassis too. There's an access panel under the cabinet.


Thank you..i will verify today....have a good day Jon.

Those are fine. Check for white caps under the chassis too. There's an access panel under the cabinet.

Okay I only have a big white cap under the chassis near the flyback..I suppose i should change this cap?.

TV model or chassis number would help!

je t'ai fait parvenir en message email le lien mais tu peux voir les photos ici.. :D

Okay I only have a big white cap under the chassis near the flyback..I suppose i should change this cap?.
Yes. I wouldn't run the TV until it's replaced.

Yes. I wouldn't run the TV until it's replaced.

that's why i can't see the complete image on the screen isn't it ?

that's why i can't see the complete image on the screen isn't it ?
If the caps go you may see the sides come in a little.
Usually the set will arc & cause other parts to fail.
Also when you turn on the set it will crackle loud like
popping bubble wrap.
Put up a screen shot next & then we can take the next step.

73 Zeno:smoke:

well, from what i hear, is the normal sound, no crackle sound except when i click OFF i can hear a pop sound... I have the image on the screen but not complete . I have a problem of vertical at the bottom of the screen.

oups i forgot that i have no camera for taking fotos or video :(

First things first, that white cap must be changed. Mine has all of its original safety caps and I haven't risked powering it up since last May even though it was working fine. I have the replacements and will install them fairly soon when I get a good soldering station.

First things first, that white cap must be changed. Mine has all of its original safety caps and I haven't risked powering it up since last May even though it was working fine. I have the replacements and will install them fairly soon when I get a good soldering station.

I have no idea if it is a safety cap or a lytic.. but from what I see it's a big one. for a soldering gun, i paid 3 dollars for 2 guns. Models M030 - 30-35W.

I've been following this thread for some time, and wondering why it remains in the wrong forum ......just wonderin'.....

I have no idea if it is a safety cap or a lytic.. but from what I see it's a big one. for a soldering gun, i paid 3 dollars for 2 guns. Models M030 - 30-35W.
I've never seen a white electrolytic capacitor. Bad white safety caps are marked 22-5001.

A cheap iron should be fine for this job due to the lack of delicate circuit traces in the area. As for me, I just don't want to drop extra funds on an iron I'll use only once.

Oh yeah, do *not* use acid-core solder.

We mostly used Weller irons, the style popular in the 70's on.
The high temp round tip was a dream on the Zenith terminal strips.
For soldering heavy things like the grounds on filter cans the
black gun was used. They must have sold 100 million of them.
We also had a bigger brown gun. That was good if you wanted to
solder two Buick Electra 225's together.
Temp controlled irons can be very touchy, follow any instructions
to the letter & they give good service. We tried other brands but
you got what you paid for.......

73 Zeno:smoke:

We mostly used Weller irons, the style popular in the 70's on.
The high temp round tip was a dream on the Zenith terminal strips.
For soldering heavy things like the grounds on filter cans the
black gun was used. They must have sold 100 million of them.
We also had a bigger brown gun. That was good if you wanted to
solder two Buick Electra 225's together.
Temp controlled irons can be very touchy, follow any instructions
to the letter & they give good service. We tried other brands but
you got what you paid for.......

73 Zeno:smoke:

8200 is the smaller two-wattage gun, and the D550 is the larger "solders anything" gun. #12 bare copper wire has made a tip or two for me over the years. I own two of both - one of each in the house, and one of each in the shop. Thrift stores around here used to sell 'em cheap before they started using ebay pricing. I spent around 30 bucks for all 4 - and that includes the original $22 for my first 8200 back in the late 70s...

Cheers,

We also had a bigger brown gun. That was good if you wanted to
solder two Buick Electra 225's together.
Don't give me ideas... :D

Anyways, a Weller station is what I have been planning for. Fortunately I can actually get that locally.

Funny I picked up a 75W Weller at the hardware store last week. The only 'iron' they had cheaper was a 'wood burning kit' so I went with a gun. I have not used a soldering gun in ages (when I first started I had my grandpa's Weller which broke a long time ago), and it surprisingly was fairly natural. I like Irons, but the off the shelf stuff tends to die before the tip goes bad (usually about 1 years time). I've been running cheap used irons for the past ~7 years, but eventually they all wore out, and I needed a good one so I went with new.

I technically still have an iron....An ancient 75W cattle prod/night stick of an iron that would probably be able to join some Buicks (that Iron is reserved for chassis ground, and thick guage work). That iron makes my 75W Weller look like a 20W light weight (I'd guess the transformer inefficiency results in less of that power going in to heat than a resistive iron).

Don't give me ideas... :D

Anyways, a Weller station is what I have been planning for. Fortunately I can actually get that locally.

I used Weller's WTCPN stations for years, and had little problems, but in 2009, I got a Hakko 936 station, and have had ZERO problems. I like it so much, I popped for their 808 desoldering gun - best thing since my Pace MBT-100 I got in 1989, but that nearly bankrupted me. Hakko is good stuff! Sometimes MAT Electronics would have a special on them - I paid full price elsewhere, but give MAT a try..

Cheers,

I used Weller's WTCPN stations for years, and had little problems, but in 2009, I got a Hakko 936 station, and have had ZERO problems. I like it so much, I popped for their 808 desoldering gun - best thing since my Pace MBT-100 I got in 1989, but that nearly bankrupted me. Hakko is good stuff! Sometimes MAT Electronics would have a special on them - I paid full price elsewhere, but give MAT a try..

Cheers,
I'll check that out, thanks for the tip.

Well, this flat chassis is now under my roof, and I have the firm intention to make it run good :yes:

First things first. I took a few pictures to put the safety caps issue to rest. At first glance I do not seem to see any, but I want to make sure.

As for the Tripler and focus divider, what do I have to look for before powering up the TV?

Thanks!

Edit : BTW, could any mod, move this thread in the SS forum?

I have had a Weller 35W iron since the early 1990s, have changed the tip at least 10 times, and it is great all around. I also have an 80W iron for big jobs. I have never had good luck with soldering guns, I had two of them when I first started out and never liked them. Maybe it's time to try again.

Note: attached is the style of Weller which lasts forever. The cheaper ones with
The screw in tips are not in the same league, I wouldnt expect it to last
Very long.

It LOOKS like you have the orange-drop safety caps (on side of flyback) and if so....you should NOT need to worry about failure. I am not saying they NEVER fail--but I KNOW they are far more reliable than the tubular AR caps.

It LOOKS like you have the orange-drop safety caps (on side of flyback) and if so....you should NOT need to worry about failure. I am not saying they NEVER fail--but I KNOW they are far more reliable than the tubular AR caps.

And what about the under chassis? Isn't there supose to be safety caps under there also?

Need a better pix of the right side--to tell for sure. ALL of the right side, near the HV area.

Congrats dude. You have French Provincial gold right there. ;)

Congrats dude. You have French Provincial gold right there. ;)
Hey thanks! And you know what? It works! I decided to plug it and see what kind of results I might have. To my suprise, it wasn't too hard to set it to get an acceptable image. But, hey it wouldn't be fun if it was 100% good... so here goes : 2 problems I can see right away.

A part of the screen is darker. When I watch a movie its not THAT noticable, but its fairly evident in the THX setup. Secondly, when I want to set up the convergence , it's like all the color are too strong and even if they are perfectly aligned, some colors are too "fat" and they come on top no mater what (see picture).

Hey thanks! And you know what? It works! I decided to plug it and see what kind of results I might have. To my suprise, it wasn't too hard to set it to get an acceptable image. But, hey it wouldn't be fun if it was 100% good... so here goes : 2 problems I can see right away.

A part of the screen is darker. When I watch a movie its not THAT noticable, but its fairly evident in the THX setup. Secondly, when I want to set up the convergence , it's like all the color are too strong and even if they are perfectly aligned, some colors are too "fat" and they come on top no mater what (see picture).

Dream Beard Hi ... I'm glad to see that the image is in its full size so I can see your thombsnails..I see you working on Zenit.Dès that you will have the chance, make a video for I make me an idea of what it could have taken all if I had had a little more time ..

What did you hit for the image back to normal?

When you do convergence turn the brightness & contrast
down so its not to bright. Be sure the focus is as good as
it can be. Use dots not cross hatch if you have dots.
Start with JUST the center using the 4 magnets.
When center done follow the instructions for the rest.
You will go back & forth till its done & the edges will NEVER
be perfect.
BTW its easier to lean over the set than use a mirror IF your
arms are long enough........

The black blob is probably in the blanking circuit. I have
seen something like it a few times but dont remember
the brand or anything else.

73 Zeno:smoke:

What did you hit for the image back to normal?

Hey there Denis,
All it took to get rid of the 3/4 inch gap at the bottom of the screen was to play with the two controls for : vertical linearity and vertical centering. They are located behind the right speaker. I thought at first that it might have been a bad cap, but nope, only misajusted controls.

When you do convergence turn the brightness & contrast
down so its not to bright. Be sure the focus is as good as
it can be. Use dots not cross hatch if you have dots.
Start with JUST the center using the 4 magnets.
When center done follow the instructions for the rest.
You will go back & forth till its done & the edges will NEVER
be perfect.
BTW its easier to lean over the set than use a mirror IF your
arms are long enough........

The black blob is probably in the blanking circuit. I have
seen something like it a few times but dont remember
the brand or anything else.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Yes, I first did the convergence with too much contrast, picture seemed washed out, so I backed out the contrast a little and thats when the color lines appeared. I believe that both my 19'' hybrid and this one suffers from the same problem : bad convergence. I thought that I did a good job on them both, but on further examination it's not that great, and I notice a lot of color fringing on both of them. Will put more effort on that.

As for the blob, is it a dangerous problem? Could something blow and damage something else along with it?

Edit : Also I would like to know if all the dynamic convergence pot are suppose to turn smoothly...some do and some need a little convincing to turn. Could dirty pots affect the convergence (much like dirty volume pot can create some scratching and distortion?)

Got this to clean the pots do you think it will do the job ? : http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/contact-cleaners/nu-trol-control-cleaner-401b/ . I know its desing exacly for that but just wanted to get opinion on that stuff before using it.

thanks!

they are wirewounds and not meant to be moved a lot, so yes they are a little hard to turn. if they are not rusted then they are prob as good as they are going to be. they prob have dug into the wire having not been moved for decades, so prob have a spot where they will feel different.

Make sure to turn color down to non-existent before converging the screen. Sometimes sharp contrast transitions can create IF/video ringing that is of the right frequency to trigger the chroma decoder to generate a false artificial fringe around the bar.

Hey there Denis,
All it took to get rid of the 3/4 inch gap at the bottom of the screen was to play with the two controls for : vertical linearity and vertical centering. They are located behind the right speaker. I thought at first that it might have been a bad cap, but nope, only misajusted controls.




ah ok then it not working too bad .. I hope so I Souis glad you could do something for television because I had not much time to touch it. At least she is in good hands ..

Make sure to turn color down to non-existent before converging the screen. Sometimes sharp contrast transitions can create IF/video ringing that is of the right frequency to trigger the chroma decoder to generate a false artificial fringe around the bar.

I redid the convergence with the colors turned off (and did a pretty good job of it). It improved things a bit, but when I put the colors back I am still getting blue and red fringing and that affect the picture quality. At the moment it's like I'm watching TV with a coating of vaseline on it.

I am sure CC can give a very good picture, but it seems I'm going to need some help to get there.

I redid the convergence with the colors turned off (and did a pretty good job of it). It improved things a bit, but when I put the colors back I am still getting blue and red fringing and that affect the picture quality. At the moment it's like I'm watching TV with a coating of vaseline on it.

I am sure CC can give a very good picture, but it seems I'm going to need some help to get there.

What is happening is the sharp monochrome contrast transition is being interpreted by the chroma circuits as a color signal. To fix this (assuming a good combo of fine tune and chroma level don't fix it) you will need to re-align the chroma bandpass amp and or the RF/IF system...Or you could just live with it (as I've done on a couple of sets until I can get an alignment rig together and practice).

I redid the convergence with the colors turned off (and did a pretty good job of it). It improved things a bit, but when I put the colors back I am still getting blue and red fringing and that affect the picture quality. At the moment it's like I'm watching TV with a coating of vaseline on it.

I am sure CC can give a very good picture, but it seems I'm going to need some help to get there.
When you have a pattern on are all 3 color lines very sharp or are any
blurry ?
When a CRT gets a little weak you get get what looks like the
convergence off. If its that it will improve with lower bright &
contrast . Also gets better with warm-up.
It may be time to get rid of that blob since that may be affecting
things & needs fixing anyways.
Also do you have a manual ??

73 Zeno:smoke:

Yeah, I was wondering how this CRT would do on your tester. This set has probably seen a lot of use, like mine it has mung around the HV anode cap. Nevertheless, it produces a nice picture.

What is happening is the sharp monochrome contrast transition is being interpreted by the chroma circuits as a color signal. To fix this (assuming a good combo of fine tune and chroma level don't fix it) you will need to re-align the chroma bandpass amp and or the RF/IF system...Or you could just live with it (as I've done on a couple of sets until I can get an alignment rig together and practice).

No way I'm going to leave this as is haha. What would be required to do this?

When you have a pattern on are all 3 color lines very sharp or are any
blurry ?
When a CRT gets a little weak you get get what looks like the
convergence off. If its that it will improve with lower bright &
contrast . Also gets better with warm-up.
It may be time to get rid of that blob since that may be affecting
things & needs fixing anyways.
Also do you have a manual ??

73 Zeno:smoke:

Well the CRT was a bit on the low side but still in the green (ever so slightly) but tracking wasn't to good so I decided to clean and balance it , and that brought the guns back quite a bit , so I assume it's not a problem of bad CRT.

I posted two pictures of the pattern I use for convergence. First one (black and white) is with brightness and contrast lowered and "color" set to none. The next one is about 20 sec later with color , brightness and contrast set up for an adequate picture, but not on the overkill side, only good enough for viewing.

As you can see, the lines that appeared converged on the first picture lights up like a chrismas tree! haha.

I do not have a manual as of right now but I think Marco does...

No way I'm going to leave this as is haha. What would be required to do this?

Correctly working and calibrated sweep generator, marker generator, oscilloscope, the correct probes for them, alignment diddle sticks, the factory or sam's manual for the set with the alignment procedure....Add patience, time to practice, and a guinea pig set to practice on if you have not done alignment before.

If that is Marco's set ask him to email you the schematic. I'm the one that scanned it and emailed it to him. I don't have the alignment info for that chassis....

Correctly working and calibrated sweep generator, marker generator, oscilloscope, the correct probes for them, alignment diddle sticks, the factory or sam's manual for the set with the alignment procedure....Add patience, time to practice, and a guinea pig set to practice on if you have not done alignment before.

If that is Marco's set ask him to email you the schematic. I'm the one that scanned it and emailed it to him. I don't have the alignment info for that chassis....

Well, damn...you could have said that I needed 1.21 gigawatt to get it going and I wouldn't be less floored haha. Sounds like an expensive proposition, and I suppose there is no simple way around it?

Well, damn...you could have said that I needed 1.21 gigawatt to get it going and I wouldn't be less floored haha. Sounds like an expensive proposition, and I suppose there is no simple way around it?
Getting the diagnostic/repair equipment needed for this hobby is a never-ending quest, or so it seems. Once you have a workbench that looks like an airplane cockpit, you should be just about set.

Well, damn...you could have said that I needed 1.21 gigawatt to get it going and I wouldn't be less floored haha. Sounds like an expensive proposition, and I suppose there is no simple way around it?

If you have the right gear for FM radio alignment, or the right test pattern (and a lotta balls) you might be able to adjust the chroma band pass amp (I've contemplated trying it by eye on a 60's RCA clone).
As for RF/IF alignment in theory one possibly might be able to pull it off by eye with a multi-burst pattern and possibly a scope....But it is very hard to do properly, and you'll likely just make things worse.

I've been collecting equipment on the cheap for years, and I think I might have enough gear to pull it off, but all my gear is cheap junk so I need to verify it all works then select a 'practice victim'....And I don't have the time presently.

It ain't as hard as catching lightning for some techs here who have done it, and still have the equipment from TV shops they once worked for, but picking it up from scratch takes some motivation and cash (or a lot of time searching if your as cheap as me).

Correctly working and calibrated sweep generator, marker generator, oscilloscope, the correct probes for them, alignment diddle sticks, the factory or sam's manual for the set with the alignment procedure....Add patience, time to practice, and a guinea pig set to practice on if you have not done alignment before.

If that is Marco's set ask him to email you the schematic. I'm the one that scanned it and emailed it to him. I don't have the alignment info for that chassis....

Yes Electronic M this set was mine.. yesterday night I emailed him what you given to me ... :thmbsp:

alignment is something of an art as well as a science. As mentioned the need for calibrated test equipment, the correct procedure for making terminations of test gear, correct load blocks, correct bias settings, correct lead dress, all comes into play, even then its not for the faint of heart.

Just moving your hands around can upset the look of the bandpass on a scope, even tube jockeying can effect it. Unless you know someone has been messing with the coils its really best to leave it alone or as mentioned start with a set you don't care about. That way when you strip the IF thread out of the forms, or crack a slug from using the wrong tool, or do some other serious damage, at least its not a big loss.

With practice you can get start to get the feel of it, but generally its not needed on anything made from the 1960's on up, again unless it was tampered with or a major part (like a coil) had to be replaced.

there are lots of you tube videos out there that you can check out, just to see what others have done.

Alignment is simple. Just change the IF module, its
all in there. Only has a 3.58 trap in the video off board.
Also has a CTA ( cross talk adjust) pot where the color gets
stripped off the composite.
Interesting thing is the 3.58 trap is where the bright,
sharp & contrast are also the H&V blanking.
Remember that blob ?????????

73 Zeno:smoke:

Alignment is simple. Just change the IF module, its
all in there. Only has a 3.58 trap in the video off board.
Also has a CTA ( cross talk adjust) pot where the color gets
stripped off the composite.
Interesting thing is the 3.58 trap is where the bright,
sharp & contrast are also the H&V blanking.
Remember that blob ?????????

73 Zeno:smoke:

So, the IF module could be aligned, but it would also be possible to simply change it. What I could do, if anyone has a spare IF module, is that I could replace mine, and then ship the faulty module to anyone that would be interested to restore it. I took a picture of the chassis with what I think is the IF module. Could I remove the module without having to pull the chassis?

As I was chatting with Jon.A , he suggested that the dent that I have in the CRT face glass could compromise the integrity of the tube. What do you guys think? Do you think it might be dangerous to operate the TV?

Thanks!

There are screws and plug-in wires on the bottom of the chassis that have to be removed. PTS, Zenith and others rebuilt the IF modules for the duramodule sets. Finding them should be fairly easy - they were often replaced, although not bad, when any video gripe came about. Yes, 90% of the time, the IF module was good, and the B+ cap, a connection, or an IF injection lead from the tuner was at fault.

150- prefix for the IF module, IIRC. I don't have my CRSP handy to tell you the replacement matrix - i.e. which 150- ### IF module replaces what....

Cheers,

...

As I was chatting with Jon.A , he suggested that the dent that I have in the CRT face glass could compromise the integrity of the tube. What do you guys think? Do you think it might be dangerous to operate the TV?

Thanks!


Oops! .. I had not seen this little spot (dent) on the picture tube .. but I already saw this kind of spot on many old televisions and this has never bothered TV operation ..

As to the color in the convergence pattern with color turned on: that's normal.
Its caused by beating between the color subcarrier and the sharp lines that
occur at random phase with respect to it.

There was a "prefilter" thread here recently that puts a bandpas filter
on luma in an s-video signal before mixing luma and chroma.
That would eliminate it.

As to the color in the convergence pattern with color turned on: that's normal.
Its caused by beating between the color subcarrier and the sharp lines that
occur at random phase with respect to it.

There was a "prefilter" thread here recently that puts a bandpas filter
on luma in an s-video signal before mixing luma and chroma.
That would eliminate it.

Are you reffering to the "blooming" color lines in the convergence pathern? If so that prefilter should probably give me a sharper , more defined picture right? Also, as we are speaking filter, I wanted to ask about barberpoling effect and comb filter ; is there a way to minimise this effect on older television as if they would have a built in comb filter? I may be talking non sense here, but it seems that all my 1983 and plus televisions seems to cope way better with barberpolling than , lets say my 71 zenith and my 76 Quasar.

BTW the IF board on the Zenith is a 150-170, if anyone has one lying around and is willing to sell please feel free to PM me.

There is also one speaker I would need, its the one in front of the convergence board : 49D1194. Mine is completely destroyed (got to wonder how that happened :/ )

Thanks!

There are screws and plug-in wires on the bottom of the chassis that have to be removed. PTS, Zenith and others rebuilt the IF modules for the duramodule sets. Finding them should be fairly easy - they were often replaced, although not bad, when any video gripe came about. Yes, 90% of the time, the IF module was good, and the B+ cap, a connection, or an IF injection lead from the tuner was at fault.

150- prefix for the IF module, IIRC. I don't have my CRSP handy to tell you the replacement matrix - i.e. which 150- ### IF module replaces what....

Cheers,

Oh I see, would you recommand that I check some simple connections or components before going full replacement of the IF module?

Has some of you may know, I am in the process of getting some parts to get the set going. (thread here for the ones interested : http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=268243)

But since I want to get most informations kept into one thread , i'd rather ask technicals questions here , so here goes :

Could anyone tell me if a 2 watt speaker would be a suitable replacement for the one that is busted? I know 8 ohms will do , but I have no clue as what is the minimum W the speaker needs.

thanks!

Could anyone tell me if a 2 watt speaker would be a suitable replacement for the one that is busted? I know 8 ohms will do , but I have no clue as what is the minimum W the speaker needs.

thanks!
Should be. I have three old TV speakers sitting here and the really teeny one says 1 watt, a slightly bigger one from a scrap 19" Korean set says 1.5w max. 3W, and the biggest one, pulled from a Sony, says 2W.

Most sets with smaller speakers (cones under 7") only run into the 1-5W range.

Odds are that unless you like your tv LOUD, you'll probably be running that speaker well within it's ratings. It'll distort bad to warn you that your pushing it at high volume anyways...

I've got a couple of 7W (really closer to 12W but heath rated them rather conservatively) Heathkit A-7E mono blocks that can shake the room/be heard through out the house when run at full tilt (feeding speakers rated to more than handle the amp's power)....Odds are 2W will be above sufficient.

Should be. I have three old TV speakers sitting here and the really teeny one says 1 watt, a slightly bigger one from a scrap 19" Korean set says 1.5w max. 3W, and the biggest one, pulled from a Sony, says 2W.

Yeah, most are 1, 2 or 3 watts, but I just don,t know if it makes that much of a difference. I suppose I could get around that by not putting the sound at maximum on my set... I just wanted to be sure.

Most sets with smaller speakers (cones under 7") only run into the 1-5W range.

Odds are that unless you like your tv LOUD, you'll probably be running that speaker well within it's ratings. It'll distort bad to warn you that your pushing it at high volume anyways...

I've got a couple of 7W (really closer to 12W but heath rated them rather conservatively) Heathkit A-7E mono blocks that can shake the room/be heard through out the house when run at full tilt (feeding speakers rated to more than handle the amp's power)....Odds are 2W will be above sufficient.

Ahh thats what I wanted to hear. Thanks Electronic M!