View Full Version : Sharp LC70LE735U Quatron


etype2
11-19-2014, 03:20 AM
Gwen Stefani looked amazing on last nights THE VOICE show, so thought I would attach a screen shot.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/Guen-Stafani-SS-on-the-Voice-full_WP.jpg

Also here is one from the Today Show of Natilie Morales.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/Natalie-Morales-SS-on-Today-Show-2014-full_WP.jpg

The Sharp is a 70 inch LCD with full array LED backlighting. This model uses the fourth sub-pixel, yellow. The set produces a wider color gamut and has 25% more pixels across the screen and 25% smaller pixels. We had this set calibrated by ISF about one month after purchase for proper break in. The set was purchased December, 2011 and these screen shots were just taken. The set is holding up well.

Username1
11-19-2014, 08:48 AM
I have no idea who that is, the chic in the bottom pic looks pretty good....
The top one kinda looks like it was taken out of Xanadu-

So a set like that has calibration settings....? Exactly how is that done...?
I got to watch a movie yesterday on a cheap westinghouse flat screen fed with hdmi
off cable, and it was a very clear sharp picture. The color seemed to wander from
greenish to purpleish faces throughout the film.... But quite sharp...

Does the stand alone yellow make a big difference...?

.

CoogarXR
11-19-2014, 10:15 AM
Most medium-grade and above flat panels have a service menu that you can enter and tweak the calibration. Usually it's just a code on the remote, or a sequence of buttons you hold on the TV while it's powering up to unlock the "secret" menu, hehe.

Westinghouse would be a good example of a TV that probably doesn't have calibration settings.

etype2
11-19-2014, 10:28 AM
I have no idea who that is, the chic in the bottom pic looks pretty good....
The top one kinda looks like it was taken out of Xanadu-

So a set like that has calibration settings....? Exactly how is that done...?
I got to watch a movie yesterday on a cheap westinghouse flat screen fed with hdmi
off cable, and it was a very clear sharp picture. The color seemed to wander from
greenish to purpleish faces throughout the film.... But quite sharp...

Does the stand alone yellow make a big difference...?

.

Gwen Stefani is an American singer, songwriter, fashion designer, and actress. She joined the Voice television show as a co-judge in her first season this year.

To my eyes the yellow sub pixel extends the green-yellow spectrum. Critics say the color produced by the Quatron does not conform to the RGB color standard. The color standard has and was adopted in 1931. Modern televisions are capable of extending the 1931 color standard. There has been a push to get the industry to change the color standard beyond what we have today.

When I bought my set in December, 2011. There was no 4K or OLED. By introducing the fourth sub pixel, Sharp produced a finer pitch panel with 25% more pixels across the screen. I had my set professionally calibrated by ISF (Image Science Foundation) The goal of ISF is to calibrate the set to the standard of the movie producer/studio. This sounds like an oxymoron, then why buy a set with a fourth sub-pixel? Is it just a gimmick to get more sales? For me no. I see an improvement in the color.

I'm retired and home most of the time. Since the purchase, I operate the set all day, about 17 hours a day. If I go out to walk the dog etc, I just leave it on. It is almost 3 years old next month and going very strong with no signs of a dimming or failing picture. I estimate that I have put on over 19500 hours on it. I think the screen shots demonstrate the image well. BTW taken with an iPhone 6 Plus, not a DSLR. Would be better with a high quality camera.

Here is a link to ISF and what they do: https://www.imagingscience.com

Username1
11-19-2014, 04:18 PM
Later on I asked the wife, she knows Stafani, Sorry not Glam Metal so not on my radar...

If you can post a picture of the sub menus without messing up anything, I'd love to see
what is adjustable on that Sharp set with the extra color... Those pictures you posted
are amazing for something taken off a tv set... Sounds like you did a bit of looking into
this before buying.... Anyway, the pictures do look great !

A set like that with those extra setting.... I'm curious did they give you a report on the
calibration before and after.....? With the ability to super calibrate a tv, did it come
from the factory with any extra attention paid to setup....?

Since Sharp makes panels - is this yellow a Sharp exclusive, or are they now selling
this to others and maybe they just can't advertise it...?


.

etype2
11-19-2014, 05:35 PM
Later on I asked the wife, she knows Stafani, Sorry not Glam Metal so not on my radar...

If you can post a picture of the sub menus without messing up anything, I'd love to see
what is adjustable on that Sharp set with the extra color... Those pictures you posted
are amazing for something taken off a tv set... Sounds like you did a bit of looking into
this before buying.... Anyway, the pictures do look great !

A set like that with those extra setting.... I'm curious did they give you a report on the
calibration before and after.....? With the ability to super calibrate a tv, did it come
from the factory with any extra attention paid to setup....?

Since Sharp makes panels - is this yellow a Sharp exclusive, or are they now selling
this to others and maybe they just can't advertise it...?


.

There have always been advanced service codes via the remote that only the tech guy knew about. It wasn't until HD came along that sets got more sofisticated with advanced user adjustments. My set set has an advanced menu with six color hue, saturation, value adjustments. Color gamut range, color temp., gamma, film mode and a bunch of other adjustments.

Newer sets have gotten more sofisticated, claiming to be THX or ISF certified so that you can avoid the professional calibration. Calman software was used to calibrate my set. See this link: http://calman.spectracal.com
It costs $350 and well worth it if you are serious about your movie home theater experience. The ISF certified technician comes to your home with an incredibly precise Minolta camera measuring instrument. It reads the value off the screen after the Calman software is set up on a laptop. The tech goes into the advanced service menu not available to the consumer. The calibration process goes way beyond the software that is available on DVD. The tech spends 4 to 6 hours in the home until everything is perfect. He evaluates your lighting conditions and viewing environment prior to the calibration. You are presented with a booklet of before and after calibration graphs. There is also a separate 3D calibration. After calibration, the retina burning, over saturated image is gone. You see lots of shadow detail in dark scenes. You see an extended range of detail in bright scenes. Everything is balanced. The average person like myself cannot achieve this result with just the user controls.

I will take some screen shots of the user menu. I have the pre and post calibration graphs on PDF and will post then later. Have to find the files.

As far as I know, only Sharp adopted the forth sub pixel with exception of LG which has introduced a white fourth sub pixel on their WOLED panels.

Username1
11-19-2014, 06:17 PM
I must say I am impressed, and very interested in anything you are willing to further
post on this set, and the calibration you had done.... I had no idea this was possible
for these tv sets....

Thank you.

.

etype2
11-21-2014, 05:19 PM
I must say I am impressed, and very interested in anything you are willing to further
post on this set, and the calibration you had done.... I had no idea this was possible
for these tv sets....

Thank you.

.

Here are the menu screen shots. Sub-menu pages 1, 2 and 3. BTW, if this set were not calibrated, Brooke Baldwins blowse would have been blown up saturated in white. Post calibration shows that her blowse is semi-transparent.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/Sharp-Menu-1_1200.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/Sharp-Menu-2_1200.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/Sharp-Menu-3_1200.jpg

Here is the pre and post calabration results. Notice how linear the post calibration charts are. The pre calibration chart shows the blue completely off the chart on blue. The color temperature now reads 6510.0369, almost the perfect 6500. Look at the color gamut chart. the post calibration chart shows the color points have been reached, way off on pre calibration.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-1.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-2.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-3.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-4.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-5.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-6.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-7.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-8.jpg
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/ISF-Calabration-Page-9.jpg

old_tv_nut
11-21-2014, 08:40 PM
Gwen Stefani is an American singer, songwriter, fashion designer, and actress. She joined the Voice television show as a co-judge in her first season this year.

To my eyes the yellow sub pixel extends the green-yellow spectrum. Critics say the color produced by the Quatron does not conform to the RGB color standard. The color standard has and was adopted in 1931. Modern televisions are capable of extending the 1931 color standard. There has been a push to get the industry to change the color standard beyond what we have today.

When I bought my set in December, 2011. There was no 4K or OLED. By introducing the fourth sub pixel, Sharp produced a finer pitch panel with 25% more pixels across the screen. I had my set professionally calibrated by ISF (Image Science Foundation) The goal of ISF is to calibrate the set to the standard of the movie producer/studio. This sounds like an oxymoron, then why buy a set with a fourth sub-pixel? Is it just a gimmick to get more sales? For me no. I see an improvement in the color.

I'm retired and home most of the time. Since the purchase, I operate the set all day, about 17 hours a day. If I go out to walk the dog etc, I just leave it on. It is almost 3 years old next month and going very strong with no signs of a dimming or failing picture. I estimate that I have put on over 19500 hours on it. I think the screen shots demonstrate the image well. BTW taken with an iPhone 6 Plus, not a DSLR. Would be better with a high quality camera.

Here is a link to ISF and what they do: https://www.imagingscience.com

I'm afraid what you have posted is very confused. There is no "RGB standard." What there is, is ITU Recommendation 709, which is used for digital TV worldwide including in the US - the same gamut as the sRGB standard commonly used for jpg digital still pictures. The extra yellow pixel does extend the gamut of this TV beyond rec 709, but when it is properly calibrated the extra range is not used and it does not exceed rec 709, because that is what is broadcast. There have been several proposals to extend the gamut of media, particularly blu-ray discs, but as far as I know, no extended gamut discs have been produced. Each proposal has some drawbacks. Extended gamut standards for production and for broadcast using new digital standards are under discussion in various standards committees.

When you mention 1931, that is the date of publishing of the CIE standard observer, which uses mathematically defined non-realizable primary colors X,Y,Z so that all visible colors may be defined with positive values of these primaries. Some of the proposed production standards use XYZ or other primaries that can cover the full visual gamut.

Obtaining an extended gamut can be done with three-primary displays rather than with an additional yellow (simpler mathematically to get correct), and is currently available in wide-gamut computer monitors as well as very high end specialized professional video monitors used for cinema editing. A wider gamut in the display is also natural for laser displays.

Experienced Photoshop users know that an extended gamut monitor (especially with extended red) has to be "profiled" so that when an image comes from a narrow gamut source, the system reduces the gamut of what is displayed to match the source. Otherwise, colors come out over-saturated. The same thing can happen with the extra yellow pixel, but there the distortion is in colors other than flesh tones, so the viewer has no ready reference of what the color should be and may like the higher (though incorrect) saturation.

old_tv_nut
11-21-2014, 08:55 PM
Now, separate comments on the calibration:

The calibration did an excellent job of fixing the out-of-the-box errors, most of which were probably due to normal factory setup to make the set look like the most different searchlight on the sales floor.

As you mention, the initial factory settings usually have things maxed out, such that highlights tend to be clipped or at least compressed, so that white clothing loses detail. The adjustment to match the rec. 709 gamma curve fixes this.

Also, the calibration countered the extreme blue factory setting, which makes whites bluer and therefore appear brighter, but makes creating good flesh tones a nightmare.

Finally, the before and after primary and secondary color aim points show that the extended gamut was reduced to exactly match the broadcast rec 709 colors. The one good thing about the extended gamut of this set is that it can be reduced to exactly rec 709. If a TV natively has a smaller gamut than rec 709, nothing can be done to extend it to the correct gamut. Most sets these days approximate rec 709, but maybe not exactly.

etype2
11-21-2014, 10:38 PM
I'm afraid what you have posted is very confused. There is no "RGB standard." What there is, is ITU Recommendation 709, which is used for digital TV worldwide including in the US - the same gamut as the sRGB standard commonly used for jpg digital still pictures. The extra yellow pixel does extend the gamut of this TV beyond rec 709, but when it is properly calibrated the extra range is not used and it does not exceed rec 709, because that is what is broadcast. There have been several proposals to extend the gamut of media, particularly blu-ray discs, but as far as I know, no extended gamut discs have been produced. Each proposal has some drawbacks. Extended gamut standards for production and for broadcast using new digital standards are under discussion in various standards committees.

When you mention 1931, that is the date of publishing of the CIE standard observer, which uses mathematically defined non-realizable primary colors X,Y,Z so that all visible colors may be defined with positive values of these primaries. Some of the proposed production standards use XYZ or other primaries that can cover the full visual gamut.

Obtaining an extended gamut can be done with three-primary displays rather than with an additional yellow (simpler mathematically to get correct), and is currently available in wide-gamut computer monitors as well as very high end specialized professional video monitors used for cinema editing. A wider gamut in the display is also natural for laser displays.

Experienced Photoshop users know that an extended gamut monitor (especially with extended red) has to be "profiled" so that when an image comes from a narrow gamut source, the system reduces the gamut of what is displayed to match the source. Otherwise, colors come out over-saturated. The same thing can happen with the extra yellow pixel, but there the distortion is in colors other than flesh tones, so the viewer has no ready reference of what the color should be and may like the higher (though incorrect) saturation.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify my comment. What you said is pretty much the way I understood it. Joe Kane is one of the leading proponents of educating the industry and public as to a proper color and extended color gamut displays and we have read his papers.

My point is modern television sets are capable of reproducing color beyond the "old standard" and why should we be bound to the old standard. I understand the reluctance of the industry to push back because of the investment required for such a change. They may resist, but 4K is here and more to come. (Yes I know, not true 4K) NHK of Japan is working to make Super HiVision available in time for the next Olympics held in Japan. The format is wide color gamut, 8K and even 16K, multi channel audio. We will fall behind if we do do not adopt an advanced television standard.

I know that the calibration brought my display back to the studio standard, but to my eye, I see a broader green/yellow spectrum of colors. We noticed the difference having owned prior sets. A nice side benefit of the Quatron is the reduction in size and addition of pixel elements.

etype2
11-21-2014, 10:49 PM
Now, separate comments on the calibration:

The calibration did an excellent job of fixing the out-of-the-box errors, most of which were probably due to normal factory setup to make the set look like the most different searchlight on the sales floor.

As you mention, the initial factory settings usually have things maxed out, such that highlights tend to be clipped or at least compressed, so that white clothing loses detail. The adjustment to match the rec. 709 gamma curve fixes this.

Also, the calibration countered the extreme blue factory setting, which makes whites bluer and therefore appear brighter, but makes creating good flesh tones a nightmare.

Finally, the before and after primary and secondary color aim points show that the extended gamut was reduced to exactly match the broadcast rec 709 colors. The one good thing about the extended gamut of this set is that it can be reduced to exactly rec 709. If a TV natively has a smaller gamut than rec 709, nothing can be done to extend it to the correct gamut. Most sets these days approximate rec 709, but maybe not exactly.

Indeed. We bought Joe Kane's Video Essential Blu-ray Disc. There is the couple in the resteraunt scene and prior to calibration, her blazer was so blown up and over saturated that all detail was lost.

This image is taken from a Sharp 2005 65 inch set, post calibration. We shot this from an extreme angle in the viewing room to demonstrate the wide viewing angle which was a favorite topic of the day. The set in this thread is a 2012 70 inch Sharp Quatron with full array LED LCD.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/lcd-lounge-full-wordpress.jpg