http://www.ebay.com/itm/361069957669?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It is indiana, and if my funds were a bit more stable right now--I would go for it.

I'm bidding on it.. As alot of you all know on here, I've been wanting one of these..

The only lack of love may be because it is a "local pickup only" item, in Indiana.

If it was near here, I would be tempted to put on my nice clothes, and some aftershave, give it some red roses, and offer to buy it a drink. :)

I'd say the lack of love is because it isn't a RCA.

It's about 140 miles away from me. Problem is I don't have any more room for sets.

I'd say the lack of love is because it isn't a RCA.

It looks like the last roundie GE. The CB chassis, with their color circuit that uses the crystal-ringer circuit. At least, the CRT doesn't have a cataract.

wow almost missed this one, thanks for posting the ebay link.

hope it does not have a smoked fly, the one I have gets pretty hot.

wow almost missed this one, thanks for posting the ebay link.


NO problem. Unlike SOME--I do NOT have the attitude of" If I can't have it then NO ONE should have it". I knew it was problematic right now for me to afford it--even though it is only a couple hours away--but I did NOT want it to go with no bids and end up in a PACKER TRUCK--which may very WELL have been the case otherwise.

Better ONE OF US get it--than a dump or fishtanker or such !!

I feel the same way also.. I wish there were more people in my area that collect these old TV sets other than me.. My local CL currently has quite a few vintage stuff that just sits on there, (mostly solid state 70s stuff and some B&W 40s sets) even at decent prices too..

I'm getting this set in unknown condition, and I'm going to expect that the tube is a dud so I don't get my hopes up to be disappointed..

Well I just wanted to follow this one, I have the exact model already that I got locally. the fly runs hot but I have a spare so no big deal.

Does anyone know what Sams folder set this is?

IIRC there was not a separate sams for just the roundie. The CA did have its own but it was just an RCA clone, the CB sams covered both the rectangle and roundie, with the rectangle having an extra pcb shown optionally for the pincushion. I think it had a schematic glued to the inside of the cab that was factory (not sams) that was roundie specific, but hard to work from since it was glued in and not very large. you should prob get the GE tab book as it covers all the odd GE stuff, but I think that one also shows the CB as a roundie or rectangle as well. The CB was very different as far as circuitry with some odd faults not seen on other sets of the era. Its basicly just a big porta color demodulator.

I saw your video.. Nice set.. Looks like I saw a Sams in that video that covers the set.. which Sams? I did a search on GE Tab Book and nothing related shows up.. infact this new Google dumb search wants to add "Guitar" in the search results..

Glad you got it. Looking forward to some pix.

general electric tab books. its out there in google land.

I found volumes 1 and 2 on eBay.. I got them both.. I'll be posting a bunch of pics...

This one looks like a pass.

This one looks like a pass.

What do you mean by that?

What do you mean by that?
Beats me, but considering that it's not the ubiquitous RCA, even I must say nice save although it's not from my preferred era.

I think more people are getting tired of RCA.. It's nice to see other sets than the typical RCA for a change.. I like color roundie sets from the late 50s to mid 60s era the best..

He may be referring to the pic tube..

The condition of the picture tube is anyone's guess. I'd say that the lack of a cataract is a good sign.

My '78 XL-100 is an exception to my rule. Plain but I really like it and it's in excellent condition, nearly mint.

Well I spoke to the seller, which is a lady.. I asked her about the history and she said her parents bought it new.. I asked her if it still worked or if she had tried it, and she said she didn't know, it was the down stairs TV, while they had gotten a newer one for upstairs.. I asked her when they stopped using it, and she guessed around 20 years ago, that would be around the early 90s, I said they probably stopped using it probably longer than 20 years ago.. More like the 70s or early 80s, and she seemed to agree.. So it's coming from the original owner, and looks like it may have been well used, which could be a good or bad thing.. Good if the tube is a newer rebuild, and if the fly is still good, or been replaced..

Now that I got the tab book, I still would like to know the Sams Photofact to get... The Sams still provides alot more details..

Sams 826 Folder 1 or Sams 843 - little difference, mostly model differences (knobs, etc). CA or CB Chassis.

FYI, that chassis uses the "ET" prefix for all the parts. GE later abandoned that prefix, and assigned the parts as "ES" parts. The part number changed completely, adding a lot of confusion. An ET36X601 is not the same as an ES36X601 - instead it would be assigned a completely different ES36X number. Real pain, especially with knobs, and GE updated their service lit only - Sams listed only the original ET designation.

Prefixes:

EU - Utica
ET - Utica ?
ES - Syracuse
EP - Portsmouth (last GE production in US)
EA - Audio products
EW - Offshore (HK, Taiwan, Korea)

ET and EU preceded ES, and all preceded EP. REAL confusing....

Cheers,

Ouch.. Thanks for the info.. Anyone know the flyback part number or substitutes for this? I'm going to look for a spare to have on hand.. Thanks..

Sams lists the part number as an ET77X79, with a Triad D-304 as a replacement. Same flyback as a CTC-15, Fly-277/RCA 113382 are the same. That's the nice thing about this set - it's an RCA clone, and the sweep stuff is the same - vert tranny, focus coil, all the same. Downside is the growing rarity of NOS parts, especially flybacks. I just sold my last CTC-15 fly to Kamakiri - Tim needed it for a set.

Cheers,

Thanks for all the info.. I guess flybacks for roundie sets are harder to come by than roundie tubes..

I found a place that had 3 in stock.. If you put in Thordarson FLY277 into google, it will be the first result from http://www.electronicsurplus.com.. They removed the order page, they had three NOS ones for $25 each and I bought all three..

GE did have some bastard chassis. I worked for a shop that handled GE in the later years. My folks had a 1969 GE KE chassis. Great picture and fairly reliable too. I have RCA's now and a GE porta color as well. Along with a 67 Motorola

GE did have some bastard chassis. I worked for a shop that handled GE in the later years. My folks had a 1969 GE KE chassis. Great picture and fairly reliable too. I have RCA's now and a GE porta color as well. Along with a 67 Motorola
When I was buying and selling used sets, some 40+ years ago, I didn't sell many GE's. They weren't that big of a seller around here and wouldn't bring top dollar. There were GE plants here and many of the employees didn't even buy them. :sigh:

I got one locally, think it was 10$, only one I have come across in the wild. Make ok pic.

Here is a pic of my folks GE from 1969. I should have kept it. Damm184687

When I was buying and selling used sets, some 40+ years ago, I didn't sell many GE's. They weren't that big of a seller around here and wouldn't bring top dollar. There were GE plants here and many of the employees didn't even buy them. :sigh:

I think you're exaggerating. I never saw or heard of that much trouble with GE sets. I'm not saying they were the best, but they were far from the worst. And, to imply that GE employees didn't buy them because they thought they were bad is just not believable. Big GE consoles didn't sell that great to begin with because RCA and Zenith always had the market cornered. And when you were dealing with used consoles was a time when everybody wanted smaller sets, so they were even harder to sell.

I think you're exaggerating. I never saw or heard of that much trouble with GE sets. I'm not saying they were the best, but they were far from the worst. And, to imply that GE employees didn't buy them because they thought they were bad is just not believable. Big GE consoles didn't sell that great to begin with because RCA and Zenith always had the market cornered. And when you were dealing with used consoles was a time when everybody wanted smaller sets, so they were even harder to sell.

This was in Milwaukee. There was a Hotpoint and several GE Medical Systems, plants scattered around the area.

I still think you're full of it. I knew and know a lot of men and women that worked at Appliance Park in Louisville and never heard any of them complain about a GE set. Knew some that worked in Decatur, IL too and same thing.

I will say some of the early solid state sets were a pain QA JA MA MB and so forth. But in general I had a YM chassis in a counsel set. Wide band amp failed and flyback with horiz out transistor. Had the set from 80 to 87. Hell my Sylvania I got in 87 crapped the crt after 5 yrs. And I mean bad too. The GE was a great set.

I didn't see that many GE sets for repair, but the ones I did were always, always dogs. There was a reason RCA and Zenith had the market cornered in Memphis. They simply had better pictures and were preceived to be more reliable. I think every manufacturer had their share of bad designs.

How bout the RCA HV cup failures. Bang bang bang. for one. Zenith solid state upright chassis cap failure. Chews the neck off the crt. LOL

I agree there were some GE chassis that weren't so good, like the JA and QA. But, the KE's were good sets. So were the KC's. I always thought the early H sets were really good at the time and for the money. I mean, they were pretty reliable and didn't need much adjustments, and were cheap for a color set in 1966. You couldn't say those things about a roundy set a few years earlier. Sure, by the 70's there were much better portables, but GE kept cranking them out. All manufacturers made gems and lemons in their history.

BUT, I don't remember people believing GE sets were bad in general. It wasn't until I started reading posts on here that I ran across anybody generalizing them that way, and from one person in particular.

What I can generalize about GE consoles is that they had two problems: cabinets and pictures. GE cabinets were nothing special, and they were one of the first to adopt laminated particle boards. I remember when a GE console would come into our family's store and it would be put next to a Motorola set with a Drexel cabinet, there was no comparison. When you'd turn the GE on and look at the picture next to a Sylvania, again there was no comparison. The GE's usually had to sell for $50-100 cheaper to make them competitive. HOWEVER, the Motorola and the Sylvania sets were more likely to be back in the shop getting fixed before the GE would. And, the GE CRT's lasted longer too.

I'm colorblind and my eyesight's not the greatest, so personally I never minded the softer picture and colors of GE's. That's what kept me out of the electronics business, I couldn't read resistor codes or wiring colors. My granddad said I'd never make it because I took too much time having to rely on schematics and tracing to fix stuff. By 1980 my dad had moved on to a different business and my granddad sold out, so I wasn't around much newer GE stuff.

How bout the RCA HV cup failures. Bang bang bang. for one. Zenith solid state upright chassis cap failure. Chews the neck off the crt. LOL

I believe...had it not been for the safety cap problems.. and triplers too..there would be a LOT more SS Zenith chromacolor I and II sets still out there...at least the ones with he delta tubes anyway. The 100% in-line tubes Zenith made are NOWHERE near as good at the deltas.

My dad bought a KE chassis GE 21" table model in 1969 and we used it as our main TV until 1986. It was still working when replaced, but the picture was getting overly green. The "instant on" was always in use and the TV had very few tubes replaced in its lifetime. I replaced it with a Magnavox remote table model and moved it to my living room, where it still sits. I thought it was and is a great TV.

We didn't have any more trouble out of it than any other TV and it sure lasted longer than the Toshiba 25" that replaced the Magnavox. I think mom got three years out of it. I have lots of memories of dad watching sports on the old GE and my watching Dark Shadows until it was canceled. It was our first color TV.

We had lots of GE appliances from the same store, Butler-Conrad. The KE GE replaced a 1962 GE 19" table model with a vertical chassis that went to my grandmother's kitchen and worked very reliably up until 1983 when it was replaced by a small Zenith. I have it in my basement. If you ever see My Favorite Martian, it's the same model Bill Bixby had in the apartment.

Mom still cooks on her 1953 GE 40" stove. It's just rock solid reliable. They made very good appliances in their day, but it's likely their day has passed. The last GE appliance I bought was a washer about six years ago and it's been reliable too. No problems at all.

i would have bid on it if i noticed it in time .

I agree there were some GE chassis that weren't so good, like the JA and QA. But, the KE's were good sets.

JA and QA were far better than the real GE lemon: EC Chassis.

GE cabinets were nothing special, and they were one of the first to adopt laminated particle boards. I remember when a GE console would come into our family's store and it would be put next to a Motorola set with a Drexel cabinet, there was no comparison.

You don't recall the Ethan Allen GE Sets - all wood, and the only plywood in the whole set was the back - a piece of Baltic birch three ply. I first saw one with a MA chassis, but later serviced several - all were easy fixes. In one GE Service guide I have, there are 18 Ethan Allen models for the represented chassis. I'm not sure if they ever had a tube set or a hybrid chassis in an Ethan Allen cabinet - I know I've never seen one.

GE got banged around by the consumer magazines. They won a few battles - Consumer Reports reported they only had 7 new models one year in a misprint, and two months later, they gave GE a whole page to display several nicer models among their 67 new models - and the apology from Consumers Union.

I agree there were some GE chassis that weren't so good, like the JA and QA. But, the KE's were good sets. So were the KC's. I always thought the early H sets were really good at the time and for the money. I mean, they were pretty reliable and didn't need much adjustments, and were cheap for a color set in 1966. You couldn't say those things about a roundy set a few years earlier. Sure, by the 70's there were much better portables, but GE kept cranking them out. All manufacturers made gems and lemons in their history.

BUT, I don't remember people believing GE sets were bad in general. It wasn't until I started reading posts on here that I ran across anybody generalizing them that way, and from one person in particular.

What I can generalize about GE consoles is that they had two problems: cabinets and pictures. GE cabinets were nothing special, and they were one of the first to adopt laminated particle boards. I remember when a GE console would come into our family's store and it would be put next to a Motorola set with a Drexel cabinet, there was no comparison. When you'd turn the GE on and look at the picture next to a Sylvania, again there was no comparison. The GE's usually had to sell for $50-100 cheaper to make them competitive. HOWEVER, the Motorola and the Sylvania sets were more likely to be back in the shop getting fixed before the GE would. And, the GE CRT's lasted longer too.

I'm colorblind and my eyesight's not the greatest, so personally I never minded the softer picture and colors of GE's. That's what kept me out of the electronics business, I couldn't read resistor codes or wiring colors. My granddad said I'd never make it because I took too much time having to rely on schematics and tracing to fix stuff. By 1980 my dad had moved on to a different business and my granddad sold out, so I wasn't around much newer GE stuff.
I wonder who that one person is? :D
BTW, I have several GE sets in my collection. Three Porta Colors, An HD and two HE2's.
A great working 9", made by Samsung and three 5" portable, undercabinet color sets, I think, made by Samsung. Plus a few Portsmouth built sets.
So, I'm not a complete stranger to GE products.

I had a '66 HE portacolor which ran like new. I installed a NOS picture tube in it though since the original was dim. Also, the AA/AB/AC sets with the through-hole solder connections that everyone complains about? Well, I've had two of the 17" ones and a 13" one and they were all superb performers as foun on the curb, with extremely bright images and deep natural colors.
And again, my 19" PC chassis set from the mid eighties had a FANTASTIC picture, but I blew the h.o.t. while setting the width by slipping with a metallic adjustment screwdriver. Still have it for repair someplace.
I have in my collection a few SE/SF tube hybrid chassis too which usually work well but have a weak crt.
The only G.E. I could say was a real piece of garbage, that I owned, was a '71 all tube 18" color I picked up at one point. I could NOT get it working at all. The circuitboards were scorched from heat and basically disintegrating. Which chassis did that likely have?

I had a '66 HE portacolor which ran like new. I installed a NOS picture tube in it though since the original was dim. Also, the AA/AB/AC sets with the through-hole solder connections that everyone complains about? Well, I've had two of the 17" ones and a 13" one and they were all superb performers as foun on the curb, with extremely bright images and deep natural colors.
And again, my 19" PC chassis set from the mid eighties had a FANTASTIC picture, but I blew the h.o.t. while setting the width by slipping with a metallic adjustment screwdriver. Still have it for repair someplace.
I have in my collection a few SE/SF tube hybrid chassis too which usually work well but have a weak crt.
The only G.E. I could say was a real piece of garbage, that I owned, was a '71 all tube 18" color I picked up at one point. I could NOT get it working at all. The circuitboards were scorched from heat and basically disintegrating. Which chassis did that likely have?
IIRC, Your '66 Porta-color is an HB chassis, the first one of its kind. They originally had the course dot-pitch CRT, the 11SP22.
Those 18", early 70's sets, had the super-size horizontal output tube and the lead coated HV rectifier. I junked one that was branded Packard-Bell. :thumbsdn:

You are spot-on with both sets. My portacolor had the coarse phosphored 11SP22. And the 18incher did in fact look as you described inside. At the time, I went to the public library trying to find Sams for it and they had already gotten rid of most of their inventory. I junked it. Funny though, how I'll probably never see another again.

You are spot-on with both sets. My portacolor had the coarse phosphored 11SP22. And the 18incher did in fact look as you described inside. At the time, I went to the public library trying to find Sams for it and they had already gotten rid of most of their inventory. I junked it. Funny though, how I'll probably never see another again.

I used to go to the public library, to get Sams information.
You could easily tell what sets were less than reliable, by the condition of the Sams. Some were rather tattered, from all the handling. They had to be photo-copied on site. They didn't allow removing them from the building. :thumbsdn:

IIRC those 18" sets from the 70's were intended for hotels, and I think they were actually hybrids. They had AFC and a dummy ring around the channel knob. The color controls were behind a screw on panel in the back. They also had large x-ray warning labels on the inside designed to scare the bejeezez out of you.

GE also had a kit for some of their other sets that covered the controls. I think they called it a kid-proof kit because kids always got blamed for the color being off in a set.

I remember they had a smaller tube color set about then too that was 15" or 16" and I think those were the first color sets from Singapore. They seemed to run hot. Otherwise, I don't remember seeing burnt boards or bad solder joints on many American made sets. GE used to gtd their boards for life, that was a selling point for them. But that stopped when stuff started coming from Singapore.

I used to go to the public library, to get Sams information.
You could easily tell what sets were less than reliable, by the condition of the Sams. Some were rather tattered, from all the handling. They had to be photo-copied on site. They didn't allow removing them from the building. :thumbsdn:

Hahaha. The ones in the shops were the same way and usually had big circles penciled around the trouble spots.

JA and QA were far better than the real GE lemon: EC Chassis.



You don't recall the Ethan Allen GE Sets - all wood, and the only plywood in the whole set was the back - a piece of Baltic birch three ply. I first saw one with a MA chassis, but later serviced several - all were easy fixes. In one GE Service guide I have, there are 18 Ethan Allen models for the represented chassis. I'm not sure if they ever had a tube set or a hybrid chassis in an Ethan Allen cabinet - I know I've never seen one.

GE got banged around by the consumer magazines. They won a few battles - Consumer Reports reported they only had 7 new models one year in a misprint, and two months later, they gave GE a whole page to display several nicer models among their 67 new models - and the apology from Consumers Union.

I don't remember them in TV's, but I do remember them in stereos. GE had some very nice stereo consoles.

I think the other thing that hurt GE was the x-ray rectifier tube scare. In fact, I think that hurt color tv sales in general because everybody thought color sets gave off x-rays.

GE appliances were another story though. The damn things practically walked out of the store by themselves they sold so well. People specifically sought out GE appliances and wouldn't bother to look at other brands.

My mover delivered last night at 3am.. I tried to do a soft power up but I realized nothing happens when powered on.. hmmm wonder if it's a thermistor, or a component pointed out below that broke from the chassis..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2486.jpg


Tested the tube with both the Beltron and BK.. Beltron does not like very well..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2450.jpg


Originally started with the BK.. Here are the results.. Another with green being the weaker.. After 15 mins.. And it does take a long time for it to climb..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2456.jpg


The Flyback looks to be in great shape.. Looks like a silicone replacement.. No wax droppings..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2468.jpg


Chassis:
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2458.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2459.jpg

Two wires coming from the board that aren't connected..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2476.jpg

looks like it has all the original GE tubes.. One is out and broken.. TV was shipped upside down.. May have came out and broke.. Something else is also lose and not in place.. Hmm.. Could this be why the set doesn't power on?
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2527.jpg


Looks like this coil of sorts is suppose to go here, close to where the tube should be.. May have had a square can around it..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2534.jpg


Tuner:
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2477.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2479.jpg

Control:
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2493.jpg

Missing the inner knobs.. Does anyone have a spare set of knobs?
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2497.jpg

It's got the original Rare Earth tube
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2518.jpg

wires are cut to test the degauss circuit, they should be left open.
coil looks like maybe the eff coil, def kill the HV. never mind looked again not the eff coil.

if no pwoer at all check switch, often wire will break there. That got the AB chassis the GE design, not the RCA clone in the 1st sets they did.

The wires connected to the power switch are connected and not loose.. the coils behind the plug where power cord plugs in look burnt out and broken winding on coil... I tested the tube again using my Sencore CR70.. When I go into emissions on each gun the needle jumps well into the good range and then slowly goes into the bad.. Does that each time testing each gun.. I go back into the cut off settings and the settings go off after testing... Think I should zap this tube using the BK or Beltron with the cleaning function, or should I wait and see what happens when the set is functioning and HV has been to it?

Zap it now? :eek:Are you kidding?

burnt coil at interlock not good, sometimes opens from bad solder you will just need to check continuity from Power trans back to interlock (which may be bad too, wiggle the plug wire there). I generally will just hook up a meter to the AC plug and check for continuity, switch on, if nothing then just trace until you find where it breaks.

No reason to mess with the CRT until you see what kind of pic it makes.

you need to start looking for a coil at least to replace the broken one.

thermistor is often broken, check across it, cold prob 100 ohms, or turn on set for a few seconds, then off. if its cold you know its bad.

On mine one of the power resistors on that board with the thermistor had been replaced as well (incorrectly of course), so you may want to sweep thru them as well.

Don't rejuv just yet - I'll check my stock of GE parts to see if I have a coil, or a replacement. CB chassis was GE's version of the CTC15, with improvements. I'll pull my sams and see about your coil - most of the coils are interchangeable with the CA chassis, a sister to yours, and better yet, Miller, Workman, and Merit all made replacements.

Cheers,

According to the Sams the coil is L46 item number - Horiz Osc - GE part number ET36X727 - Miller part number 6350... Others are blank including Thordason.. Looks like there is a few other of these coils that are the same throughout the chassis... If anyone has this part.. I'll be the buyer..

I'd check the schematic and see if you have all the leads on that coil sticking out far enough to solder. If so you could tack on about an inch of fine gauge wire to the stubs, glue the base back in, and solder the extenders to the terminal posts....I've had to deal with the kind of damage you picture before and the above procedure was the way I fixed it.

I'd check the schematic and see if you have all the leads on that coil sticking out far enough to solder. If so you could tack on about an inch of fine gauge wire to the stubs, glue the base back in, and solder the extenders to the terminal posts....I've had to deal with the kind of damage you picture before and the above procedure was the way I fixed it.


Ya, I thought of that.. I think there is enough leaded wires coming out.. I'm not sure if there is 2 or 4 wires..

Here is a pic of one of the two coils behind the plugin.. looking from the bottom of the chassis, there is a break in one of the coils.. Wire perks out... I measured with my ohm meter, there is no voltage going past those coils when I plug in the cord.. Is this something that could be jumped at least until I Obtain some kind of replacement?

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2542.jpg

You can see at broken wire on the left coil
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2548.jpg

.. Is this something that could be jumped at least until I Obtain some kind of replacement?

You can simply bypass the coils with a piece if wire. The coils are simply to filter the high frequency noise leaving the set and entering the 120v mains supply. I suspect there will be more horizontal sweep radiation as a result of the bypassing.

Many sets did not have those coils so bypassing them is fine. One quick N' dirty replacement can be had from a junked switching power supply from a computer, modern TV, etc. Most switching power supplies have a 4 pin transformer looking part in between the power cord and the rectifier bridge (the bridge is usually just before a large X00uF 200V lytic) that transformer looking part is basically the two line coils in your set only conveniently wrapped into a single part.

I bypassed the coils.. and it went KABOOM instantly as i plugged the cord in.. Notice the black mark now.. Sounds like issues with the power supply.. There's a cap that looks to be made out of some kind of foil that doesn't look good (pictured).. That may be the problem..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2551.jpg

It's something Dave is going to have to look at..

beware of the many flat wind coils used, very fragile, you don't want to break out the air gun and start blasting away to clean it. If you feel you must clean use q tips and alcohol very carefully, and stay away from those flat coils.

this is where you want to use a variac (bypassing things) watching the AC amp draw and monitoring the B+

The cap prob is an across the line cap just just exploded, remove it and try again with the variac.

Another good idea is, before connecting the plug, to check the resistance at the chassis interlock terminals. If it is below 40 ohms (calculated assuming 350W rated consumption, and the same resistance cold as during operation) then assume there is a problem and fix it before connecting power.

That char mark reminds me of the time when I was a teen when I tried to find which pins on a 4 pin power plug were 120V. I used a DMM set to voltage, but with the leads in the 10A current measuring position (which is a dead short) there was a POP and lots of smoke....Surprisingly nothing was destroyed and the breaker never tripped.

Don't rejuv just yet - I'll check my stock of GE parts to see if I have a coil, or a replacement. CB chassis was GE's version of the CTC15, with improvements. I'll pull my sams and see about your coil - most of the coils are interchangeable with the CA chassis, a sister to yours, and better yet, Miller, Workman, and Merit all made replacements.

Cheers,
You call that thing an improvement over the time-tested CTC15! :D
It's obvious, that the flyback runs hot! An aluminum frame and heat-sink compound to transfer heat to the chassis proper. Probably, not a bad idea.
It looks like a lightning kiss! I would use the series lamp trick instead of the variac for now. The transformer primary might be damaged as well.
I wonder how much heat, I'm going to catch, for this entry. :scratch2:

The chassis stamping is the same as some CTC-15 clones I have, and I can't help but do a double take seeing the 'audio board' devoid of tubes and instead used as a PS board....Something about large power resistors on an early PCB that just screams cold solder joints and B+ failure to me.

The cap prob is an across the line cap just just exploded, remove it and try again with the variac.

In the first phot0 he posted, it was already toast. Remove the cap (with the green stripe) and check again for shorts. The coils are hash coils, and any modern common mode choke (from a junked set) will work.

BTW, I probably have your coil - I have several, just need to figure out the function of the broken coil. Lemme know - my Sams is mysteriously missing. I've had it out before, so no gremlins to blame - just my disorderly mess.

Cheers,

According to the Sams the coil is L46 item number - Horiz Osc - GE part number ET36X727 - Miller part number 6350... Others are blank including Thordason.. Looks like there is a few other of these coils that are the same throughout the chassis... If anyone has this part.. I'll be the buyer..

This is what I have with the sams.. It works as a Horizontal Oscillator..

I removed the cap.. it measures at 5.6 ohms cold at interlock.. I"ll probably try the light bulb procedure in series with the variac...

I get about 3 ohms at the plug.

According to the Sams the coil is L46 item number - Horiz Osc - GE part number ET36X727 - Miller part number 6350... Others are blank including Thordason.. Looks like there is a few other of these coils that are the same throughout the chassis... If anyone has this part.. I'll be the buyer..

FYI, the Miller 6350 is a focus coil. PM responded to.

...

Andy, I checked mine (same model) it was 3 ohms at the plug.

Removed cap.. I measured again this time at the plug, and got 3ohms with the tv power switch in the on position.. Plugged it with the varic with light in series and cranked it a little and got life.. The tuner light came up and the tubes started to glow, and heard faint crackling from the speaker, then I powered off.. That's all im doing until I get a tube and horz osc coil and replacement cap..

Findm-Keepm I just tried to reply.. You have exceeded your message storage limit.. I want to send you my address.. I've sent the money for your osc coil to your paypal account.. You're right I read the sams wrong.. It's all blank as far is and Thoradson or miller etc..

I got it setting on the variac with the horizontal output tube out.. First time I've ever seen a roundie with a coax in.. I hooked it directly from the digital cable box and it's picking up signal, which is good... Looks like this set is not going to need much work..

Went from a dead set, to a KABOOM, to a set that's now coming to life.. I guess I'm starting to catch on to this stuff.. I just hope it will be less KABOOMS in the future..

I assume 2 of these from digikey will work for the coils

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/5254-RC/M8273-ND/774813

The Cap is rated .047 600v.. I found a few at digikey here

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=162599983&uq=635536638179026501&CSRT=10826407287966524400
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=162600274&uq=635536638179026501&CSRT=10826407287966524400
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=162600332&uq=635536638179182512&CSRT=10826407287966524400

I searched .047 600v and got several possibilities.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=.047+600v

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/capacitors/film-capacitors/131088?k=.047%20600v

Get an X or Y rated line safety cap...Not just some 600VDC rated part. It will be safer that way.

I searched .047 600v and got several possibilities.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=.047+600v

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/capacitors/film-capacitors/131088?k=.047%20600v

I updated my post as you posted.. Notice my last link links to a cap that you linked from digikey (first orange cap on the list)..

I think this one will be the most appropriate..
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=162600274&uq=635536638179026501&CSRT=10826407287966524400

I've got one, will ship with coil. free.

Ok.. Thanks..

IF this set is anything like any hybrid or tubed euro set, it will NOT appreciate having power to the line output flyback stage--Without having any line drive--As in your horiz osc coil missing from the set!

you could well fry your LOPT and defo cook the line-output bottles!

IF you HAVE to run the set, pull the topcap leads from the line-output valves....

IF this set is anything like any hybrid or tubed euro set, it will NOT appreciate having power to the line output flyback stage--Without having any line drive--As in your horiz osc coil missing from the set!

you could well fry your LOPT and defo cook the line-output bottles!

IF you HAVE to run the set, pull the topcap leads from the line-output valves....

Some of those euro TV circuit nouns can be a bit hard to translate into American EE speak...

IF this set is anything like any hybrid or tubed euro set, it will NOT appreciate having power to the line output flyback stage--Without having any line drive--As in your horiz osc coil missing from the set!

you could well fry your LOPT and defo cook the line-output bottles!

IF you HAVE to run the set, pull the topcap leads from the line-output valves....
Indeed old chap. But even with the topcap connector off, with no line drive on G1, he'll still cook the screen grid (G2) of the line-output bottle.


:eek:

I ran the set probably less than a minute total at full 120v.. Nothing seemed to be burning out.. I started to smell the scent of burning dust, the horizontal output tube was the only thing I removed and also the HV lead with sucksion cup that connects to pic tube so I can remove the chassis.. I tested all the tubes, and there are alot of tubes with grid leakage, shorted, or weak.. I'm not going to power it up anymore until I get the horz osc coil replaced, tubes replaced, coils replaced, and the .047 600v cap replaced. Then I'll do a slow power up with lamp in series with 200watt bulb, and with all HV connected..

I tried the lamp procedure with a 100watt bulb and it didn't seem to work...

you don't want to do a slow power up with the Horz Out in place.
better process would be:

fix coil, remove the horz out and the vert out tubes
put a meter on the 400v b+ to monitor voltage
put a AC amp meter on line to monitor line current and a AC voltmeter to check voltage
use a variac (dont use a light bulb), mine has the AC amp and AC volt built in.
ramp up to about 30vac.
B+ should be up around 150vdc
leave it there for a bit say 10 min then take it up to about 60vac B+ should be about 300vdc, AC current will prob be under 1 amp, see if the filter caps are getting warm at all. wait another 10min then go to about 80vac B+ should be getting close to 400vdc AC current will not go up much,leave it for 10 min keep watching to see if there is any sudden changes, B+ may continue to rise after dropping a bit. prob have audio if all going well at this point then power off, put the vert out and horz out tubes back in, put a meter in series with the cathode of the horz out (may be a jumper that needs to be opend for this) set to a min scale of 250ma, hook up an HV prob, and do a full power start up.
watch the cathode current of the horz out. As that tube warms up watch the current it should stop at around 200ma (and you should see/hear the crackle of the HV). check the sams for the correct HV setting make sure its right or adj the pot to set it, then check the eff coil for the dip.

if the HO cathode current starts heading north of 250ma shut down, you have a problem.


Not a good idea to slow start with the sweep tubes in.

I ran the set probably less than a minute total at full 120v.. Nothing seemed to be burning out.. I started to smell the scent of burning dust, the horizontal output tube was the only thing I removed and also the HV lead with sucksion cup that connects to pic tube so I can remove the chassis.. I tested all the tubes, and there are alot of tubes with grid leakage, shorted, or weak.. I'm not going to power it up anymore until I get the horz osc coil replaced, tubes replaced, coils replaced, and the .047 600v cap replaced. Then I'll do a slow power up with lamp in series with 200watt bulb, and with all HV connected..

I tried the lamp procedure with a 100watt bulb and it didn't seem to work...

Coil and cap on their way - trk# 9400109699939475974899

My variac doesn't have an amp meter, nor do I have an extra multimeter to test amps while testing B+, if I would be using my multimeter to measure B+ voltages, if I could find another tool that I can plug into that measures amps etc.. at the same time, that would be great.. Back to B+ subject, Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I'm starting to get the hang of all this, but I don't know where I would connect my multimeter to measure B+ voltages as I crank up the variac.. I'm looking at the Sams LV power supply board and it shows numbers, some with voltages (bottom of board pic), I assume those are voltage check points.. Not sure which meter probe to connect to where.. I've never did voltage checks throughout circuits yet.. Also if I have to connect multimeter on bottom of pc boards to do voltage checks, I think it would be impossible to check while powered up and everything connected, but then again, I think where I see the voltage points on bottom of board image, and I look at the top board image, it looks to show metal stubs coming out a little, enough where alligator clips could clamp on.. Some have an "X" near them looking at the actual board in the TV set... If I'm understanding all this correctly, I assume red lead from tester goes to test point on board and black to metal of chassis? Also number one (390v) on Power supply board I'm assuming is a voltage check point for B+ ? I don't have an HV prob yet, so that would be out of the question at least for now..

I came up with this homemade lamp in series from parts bought at Home Depot.. If I can come up with something like this or buy something that has an amp meter on it that has an outlet that would be great.. Also another option, using this with a socket outlet adapter, and use a second multimeter to test current..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2595.jpg

Thanks Findm-Keepm for all your help..

For tube sets clip the negative lead to ground, the
metal chassis.
Sams probably shows the 390 V as #1. That goes to
all the #1's on the schematic. The voltages may not be
exact as the set is not regulated. If its + or- 3% you are
usually OK. There is often a distribution chart that shows
how many places the sources go, that helps when tracking
down a short.
As far as an amp meter goes almost anything will do.
Keep in mind a cold set just coming on will draw a ton
of current & pin the needle for a second on some meters.
Hope that helps.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I tried the lamp procedure with a 100watt bulb and it didn't seem to work...

The bulb likely lit full brightness and the TV set not at all , correct ?

Your TV draws what , 300 to 400 watts , give or take a watt or few ? You will need light bulbs up to around 300 or 400 watts worth for the TV to get enough power to begin to show life . Doing this with bulbs is easy if you get 4 sockets and wire them in parallel , and then wire that parallel bank of sockets in series with the load , as you now have your single bulb . This way , and using an assortment of common 100 , 75 , and even 50 watt bulbs , you can slowly up the current by screwing in more and higher power bulbs till the desired current is reached .

150 and 200 watt bulbs are very readily available, still.

I did notice that the Federal budget proposal for next year
continues a ban on funding for enforcing a regulation that
makes it hard to get any size regular tungsten bulb.

I bought a cheap multimeter at pepboys and measured amps powering my CTC15 up.. Meter keeps reading between 0.00 and 0.02 and no change as set is powering up and tubes warm up.. Doesn't make any since to me.. I must be doing this wrong.. got probe connected to 10amp, and the other to the Com of meter and meter set to 10amp..

the 100 watt bulb lit full brightness and went down slightly, with nothing coming up on the TV set..
the 200 watt bulb lit full and goes down dim as the tubes come up.

That's the pattern the amp meter should be reading but when I power my CTC15 up, it's giving me numbers that don't make since..

Here's what the settings I have on the multimeter..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2600.jpg

That DMM only has DC current measuring capability...There is no DC current in normal AC mains power so the readings you are getting are predictably meaningless.

If you have a 5W or more resistor that is say 1 Ohm, then you can connect it in parallel with the meter (and put both of those in series with the line), set the meter to AC volts and read current....This is relying on ohms law: V=IR voltage equals current times resistance. A resistor anywhere between 0.01 and 10 ohms will work, as long as it's power rating is high enough to handle the current the set draws. Also go with 1*10^whole integer number (ie. 0.01, 0.1, 1) to make the math easier...Basically if you do that the AC voltage on the meter will be the AC current only the decimal point may be shifted.

Or you could skip that whole rigamarole and use your other meter if it happens to have an 10A AC current setting...

Good luck.

PS: Power = R(I^2) on that resistor. Power also = VI. So to find a safe resistor power rating divide the TVs rated power by your line voltage to get the designed current draw of the set then multiple that value by 1.2 for 20%-over-current safety margin or as much as 1.5 (for 50% over current) then plug that current and the resistance of the line current sensing resistor into the first equation in this paragraph to get the power rating you want that resistor to have.
The resistor power rating can be as much as 50% lower than that calculated power and still work for maybe 5 minutes before the smoke is released if you don't have a high enough power resistor.

Must be this cheap multimeter.. I hooked my klein tools meter up and it reads 2.6 amps with the CTC15 fully powered up..

That's it.. You're right.. I didn't realize this.. I even read the package etc.. Pepboys is getting a return..

If your other meter is able to measure AC current then you could measure the line with that one, and use the pepboys one to measure DC B+ voltage....Which it should be capable of.

Oops.. A little late for that.. Went to return the meter to Pepboys and went next door to Home Depot and spent a little more money on the smaller Klein Tools meter.. Now broke till Saturday..

CTC15 when powered up goes from 3.5 amps drops to around 1.5 amps and slowly goes up to 2.6 amps after warmed up..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2606.jpg

I installed 2 new interlock coils so far, they are much bigger than the original ones.. I didn't install the cap nor the osc coil yet.. But I did power the set up only to 30 volts or less with the variac, and with the volt meter connected to HV check points, the meter keeps bouncing around to random numbers and keeps going into OL OL OL OL.. And it starts doing that at less than 10volts applied to the set... Not sure if that's because the coil or cap isn't installed yet..

Cap, coils, horz osc coil, and tube is all installed.... with the horz and vert output tubes removed.. Meter still bounces around to random numbers, and when it bounces to really high numbers is when it goes into OL, which does it about one time a second.. Set draws only 1.6amp at 115volts..

oops I think meter was bouncing around from ac to dc... Had to set to DC mode.. It's around 400vdc at 120v.. Drawing around 1.5 amps..

Just powered it up for the first time.. Can't get Horizontal to lock, and doesn't fill in the screen fully.. Focus looks blurry when I raised the screens all the way up.. The Horz Osc Tube is kinda weak, BK 747 tester shows in the middle between good/bad (?).. Not sure if that's the cause.. Here's a video I took.. B+ voltage when fully powered up and amp it draws with everything fully up...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTkDTdMEiDU

It is important to have a good H osc. tube, but I don't think that is the MAIN problem with horizontal hold.

What I hope you have or are willing to get is the sam's and a diddle stick (a small PLASTIC* hex key). *If you use a metal one you are likely to crack the slug, and it is harder to adjust since the metal acts like part of the slug, and once you pull it out your adjustment will be off.

You need to adjust the horizontal osc slug to dial in the hold...You see the front H hold pot on most sets is a fine hold control, the coarse hold being the slug(s) adjustment. Don't just randomly adjust it, follow the sam's procedure since there is the potential of damaging the fly if it is badly out of adjustment.

I have the Sams. I don't have a plastic hex key, nor I don't know where to get one either... Is this something I could get at a local place like Radio Shack or Home Depot, or something that needs to be ordered?

A GC Electronics 8454 is all you need for color TV servicing - about 8-10 dollars at most places.

http://www.landmelectronics.com/Images/eff808028e2d8de710f3d2ad1bb0f7ff.jpg

Dealer net is 8.99, so don't pay more than that.

A GC Electronics 8454 is all you need for color TV servicing - about 8-10 dollars at most places.

http://www.landmelectronics.com/Images/eff808028e2d8de710f3d2ad1bb0f7ff.jpg

Dealer net is 8.99, so don't pay more than that.

You can probably order a set from Moyer's. They can ship it in a Jiffy bag, so postage shouldn't be too high.
For an unloved set, eight pages of responses. :D

I have the Sams. I don't have a plastic hex key, nor I don't know where to get one either... Is this something I could get at a local place like Radio Shack or Home Depot, or something that needs to be ordered?

Make sure to get a new osc tube too. If it is weak then it's only a matter of time until it fails and H drive is lost...When that happens the HO Tube will red plate and both the output and flyback will be at risk of permanent damage.
Get the tube in before adjusting the osc. slug so that you don't have to readjust it for the new tube.

Thanks for the info.. I'll have to order that GC Electronics 8454.. I've already got a 5 pack of 6BH11 tubes coming..

Moyers doesn't have this listed on their site, nor nothing comes up when searching.. Nothing seems to exist "dealer net".. All other sites that do come up with this on Google require a minimum order of $10 - $30.. I tried eBay but this particular unit is not on there..

They have it here, but the ups shipping is more than the tools

http://www.amusementsplus.com/index.php?pr=Category&cat=45&sub=743&id=2274

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=tv+alignment+tool&_frs=1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELENCO-ST-13-UNIVERSAL-COLOR-TV-ALIGNMENT-TOOL-SET-/271604991701?pt=Educational_Toys_US&hash=item3f3ceb46d5
Hope this helps

That eBay link I already sent them a message.. It happens to be local (20min drive)

It is important to have a good H osc. tube, but I don't think that is the MAIN problem with horizontal hold.

What I hope you have or are willing to get is the sam's and a diddle stick (a small PLASTIC* hex key). *If you use a metal one you are likely to crack the slug, and it is harder to adjust since the metal acts like part of the slug, and once you pull it out your adjustment will be off.

You need to adjust the horizontal osc slug to dial in the hold...You see the front H hold pot on most sets is a fine hold control, the coarse hold being the slug(s) adjustment. Don't just randomly adjust it, follow the sam's procedure since there is the potential of damaging the fly if it is badly out of adjustment.

I'm reading the Sams under misc Adjustment - Horz Sweep circuits.. It's telling me to connect a 0-500ma meter to in series with cathode lead of Horz Output Tube and .47 mfd cap across the meter.. Then it says to connect a 0-1500 meter in series with the cathode lead of HV regulator tube.. Then tells me to adjust some controls and one being the horz osc control and some measurements.. At this point I'm already thrown completely off.. It does say to adjust the horz adjustment on the TV set control to the middle.. So that I'm aware of.. When I looked under the set where the 6j56 horz output tube is, i saw metal jumpers under the tube socket that connects to different pins.. looks like that would need to be unsoldered to connect amp meter in series.

I could either let Dave take over from here and restore the set, or attempt myself.. I've gotten this far.. Looking at the old coil, the slug is adjusted way down into the coil verses this new one, so I could either adjust the slug on the new coil to around where the old one is, then turn the set on, and slightly adjust right/left until I lock horz in.. Or I could be walked through on where to connect the meter.. Which I'm not expecting anyone on here too..

Moyers doesn't have this listed on their site, nor nothing comes up when searching.. Nothing seems to exist "dealer net".. All other sites that do come up with this on Google require a minimum order of $10 - $30.. I tried eBay but this particular unit is not on there..

They have it here, but the ups shipping is more than the tools

http://www.amusementsplus.com/index.php?pr=Category&cat=45&sub=743&id=2274

Don't be tied to one brand. A search on ePray for "TV Alignment Tools" turned up 4 hits from three sellers for $6.22 to $7.99, all with free shipping.

Auction numbers:

111529297027

271687189179

271604991701

331103970391

I have no connection to any of these sellers.
James.

Moyers doesn't have this listed on their site, nor nothing comes up when searching.. Nothing seems to exist "dealer net".. All other sites that do come up with this on Google require a minimum order of $10 - $30.. I tried eBay but this particular unit is not on there..

They have it here, but the ups shipping is more than the tools

http://www.amusementsplus.com/index.php?pr=Category&cat=45&sub=743&id=2274

I have a brother that works for a local electronics dealer and he got me the GC dealer net. GC lists a distributor price (I'm not privy to this, nor is my brother) and a dealer net, what his company sells them at. I'm not recommending any particular vendor - do a Google shopping search. For all intents, I avoid Moyers (Mecosun on eBay) and their outrageous prices for parts.

GC has made these alignment tools for decades. Avoid the polypropylene chinese crap on eBay - you will be disappointed. As for me, I have GC's Master alignment tool set, a whopping 51 dollars in 1987, when I bought mine. Now they are about 120 bucks, and are beyond what anyone would need these days.

eBay item 111529297027 is the set I was referring to - and it is not mine/no affiliation to the seller.

I'm reading the Sams under misc Adjustment - Horz Sweep circuits.. It's telling me to connect a 0-500ma meter to in series with cathode lead of Horz Output Tube and .47 mfd cap across the meter.. Then it says to connect a 0-1500 meter in series with the cathode lead of HV regulator tube.. Then tells me to adjust some controls and one being the horz osc control and some measurements.. At this point I'm already thrown completely off.. It does say to adjust the horz adjustment on the TV set control to the middle.. So that I'm aware of.. When I looked under the set where the 6j56 horz output tube is, i saw metal jumpers under the tube socket that connects to different pins.. looks like that would need to be unsoldered to connect amp meter in series.

I could either let Dave take over from here and restore the set, or attempt myself.. I've gotten this far.. Looking at the old coil, the slug is adjusted way down into the coil verses this new one, so I could either adjust the slug on the new coil to around where the old one is, then turn the set on, and slightly adjust right/left until I lock horz in.. Or I could be walked through on where to connect the meter.. Which I'm not expecting anyone on here too..

The exact procedure may help me to dissect it into it's constituent parts, but I'll try to give you a general breakdown. Usually sam's rolls adjustments of the various sections in and effected by the horizontal into a single procedure when they could be done one at a time. Usually it starts by adjusting the oscillator (which is what you most need to do), then it goes into horizontal linearity/efficiency adjustment* followed by HV adjustment*#.

*The .47 cap and meter thing is this part. While it is not ESSENTIAL that you do this part, you should because it checks the current through the HO Tube into the fly and minimizes it to prolong the life of those parts. What you need to do is trace the HO Tube base pin out from the schematic, and find the cathode lead (which should go to ground) break that ground (make sure you do NOT break heater ground too as it will mess up the adjustment) and insert the cap and meter (I prefer to use an analog meter[mine is from Rat Shack] with about a 250mA DC scale) then adjust the H linearity/efficiency coil slug for minimum current (usually between 185 and 210mA). On some sets there is a 250mA fuse in series with the ground you want to break if there is not one in your set you may want to add one to protect the flyback...If you do mount it above chassis where it is easy to check, change, and remove to re-do the linearity procedure/current check.

*#If you don't have an HV probe then don't try the HV section of the procedure....There may be ways of checking and adjusting the HV without a probe, but the sam's HV procedure should be considered invalid if you lack the proper measuring equipment for it.

To be honest with you I always do the first two pieces of the horizontal procedure (osc and lin, though not always at the same time or together), but have NEVER done the sam's HV proceedure....I usually just put a probe on the HV turn the brightness to min, adjust HV to speck turn the brightness up and watch that the HV don't slump significantly before hitting the ragged high end of watchable brightness...That basically does the same thing only with less metering, and prep work.

If you are still confused feel free to ask me, and include readable pictures/scans of the horizontal section and procedure so I can be more speciffic.

EDIT: BTW there are often two slugs in an H. osc. coil (you will see 2 sets of ferrite core lines next to the ocs coil on the schematic if that is the case), and it can be necessary to use the diddle stick in your set that is narrower up the shaft from the hex part...That stick should be able to turn the top slug, but also to drop through it, turning the bottom slug independently when dropped through the top slug.

I'm going to get this one..

http://www.intertexelectronics.com/GC-Electronics-8454-Alignment-Tool-Kit-6-Pieces-P9184.aspx?ItemId=307531

Only a few bucks more and they are going to lower the $10 minimum.. I might as well get the better one..

The exact procedure may help me to dissect it into it's constituent parts, but I'll try to give you a general breakdown. Usually sam's rolls adjustments of the various sections in and effected by the horizontal into a single procedure when they could be done one at a time. Usually it starts by adjusting the oscillator (which is what you most need to do), then it goes into horizontal linearity/efficiency adjustment* followed by HV adjustment*#.

*The .47 cap and meter thing is this part. While it is not ESSENTIAL that you do this part, you should because it checks the current through the HO Tube into the fly and minimizes it to prolong the life of those parts. What you need to do is trace the HO Tube base pin out from the schematic, and find the cathode lead (which should go to ground) break that ground (make sure you do NOT break heater ground too as it will mess up the adjustment) and insert the cap and meter (I prefer to use an analog meter[mine is from Rat Shack] with about a 250mA DC scale) then adjust the H linearity/efficiency coil slug for minimum current (usually between 185 and 210mA). On some sets there is a 250mA fuse in series with the ground you want to break if there is not one in your set you may want to add one to protect the flyback...If you do mount it above chassis where it is easy to check, change, and remove to re-do the linearity procedure/current check.

*#If you don't have an HV probe then don't try the HV section of the procedure....There may be ways of checking and adjusting the HV without a probe, but the sam's HV procedure should be considered invalid if you lack the proper measuring equipment for it.

To be honest with you I always do the first two pieces of the horizontal procedure (osc and lin, though not always at the same time or together), but have NEVER done the sam's HV proceedure....I usually just put a probe on the HV turn the brightness to min, adjust HV to speck turn the brightness up and watch that the HV don't slump significantly before hitting the ragged high end of watchable brightness...That basically does the same thing only with less metering, and prep work.

If you are still confused feel free to ask me, and include readable pictures/scans of the horizontal section and procedure so I can be more speciffic.

EDIT: BTW there are often two slugs in an H. osc. coil (you will see 2 sets of ferrite core lines next to the ocs coil on the schematic if that is the case), and it can be necessary to use the diddle stick in your set that is narrower up the shaft from the hex part...That stick should be able to turn the top slug, but also to drop through it, turning the bottom slug independently when dropped through the top slug.

Thanks Tom.. Very nice of you to do that.. I'm looking into a HV probe also.. I'll wait until everything arrives before attempting adjustments...

Parts are about to arrive soon.. I've got a few questions before I attempt all this:

I have a 50volt 0.47 electrolytic cap somewhere I'll have to dig up.. Will this work ?
How do I connect the cap? poz and neg leads from tester or in series on the red lead?

Parts are about to arrive soon.. I've got a few questions before I attempt all this:

I have a 50volt 0.47 electrolytic cap somewhere I'll have to dig up.. Will this work ?
How do I connect the cap? poz and neg leads from tester or in series on the red lead?

No, use a film cap across the meter terminals - a .47uF at 600V is sufficient. If you need one, I can probably find one this evening and get it in the mail to you.

Ya.. I don't have film cap...That would be really nice of you to do that...

Ya.. I don't have film cap...That would be really nice of you to do that...

I'll get one in the mail.

Meanwhile, a repair article discussing the cathode current and horizontal output stage in a tube set:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Consumer/Archive-Radio-Electronics-IDX/IDX/80s/1982/Radio_Electronics_January_1982.CV01-OCR-Page-0084.pdf

Why do you bypass the meter? The inductance of the meter can affect some Horizontal Output stages, causing failures in other areas.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Consumer/Archive-Radio-Electronics-IDX/IDX/70s/1977/Radio-Electronics-1977-07-OCR-Page-0061.pdf

Cheers,

Parts are about to arrive soon.. I've got a few questions before I attempt all this:
How do I connect the cap? poz and neg leads from tester or in series on the red lead?

You connect the cap in parallel with the meter leads. And since you are (and should be) doing this with a film cap don't worry about polarity of the capacitor (since film caps are non-polarized) .

Thank you both for the info.. I'll let you know the results once do the adjusting and measuring.. According to the Sams, the current must not exceed over 215ma..

Thank you both for the info.. I'll let you know the results once do the adjusting and measuring.. According to the Sams, the current must not exceed over 215ma..

I'm trying to remember, if the set uses the 6HF5 or the 6JS6. I know some GE's used it, as well as some Zenith's. :scratch2:

I'm trying to remember, if the set uses the 6HF5 or the 6JS6. I know some GE's used it, as well as some Zenith's. :scratch2:

Yes to both. The 6JS6A is a replacement for the 6HF5. IIRC, GE marked them as such.

Cheers,

I just got my HV probe, I turned the set on and probed under rubber cup and the needle of the HV probe only went up a digit before the 10 mark on the meter.. Meter shows a red line in between 20 and 30, I think where the needle should be.. Not sure if the meter is reading correctly..

try it on a working set...

see if reads correct then....

If not then the meter is prob not right.....

I tried it in another working set, and the needle is bouncing around, though in the higher digits.. Even got a slight jolt of static electricity while sliding the on switch on the probe..

I tried it in another working set, and the needle is bouncing around, though in the higher digits.. Even got a slight jolt of static electricity while sliding the on switch on the probe..

did you attach the ground lead to the chassis?
are you sure you are getting it on the anode and not arcing under the cap?

I didn't attach the ground to chassis.. I wasn't sure if that was for just discharging a crt.. I hear a zapping noise when I do that, but it looks to be touching the metal anode under the cap.. It's also touching the lead from the flyback and it looks to be effecting the reading too..

attach the ground clip before you hurt yourself.

Ok, that worked better.. Even though this thing came in it's original box and paperwork, there is no instructions.. I got 20 on a working set, and almost 2 digits below 20 on the GE set.. Slightly lower..

attach the ground clip before you hurt yourself.

I was thinking that myself!
Trying to remember what I did with mine. I had a Pomona brand. It seemed like most of them were. IIRC, the scale went to 40KV. :scratch2:

some had the built in mA scale too, 0-500ma with the frankenstein neck bolts.

Mine is the Pomona Model 2900A.. Spent all of $20 on it including shipping.. Dated 1969...

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2653.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2655.jpg

I've got three like that, including my go to unit.

I've got three like that, including my go to unit.

I'm trying to remember what I did with mine!
It's been years since I used it, as I quit repairing TV's for others.

I have a Zenith high-voltage probe. It's a big sucker and measures up to 50Kv.

Wunner how well those barber pole resistors hold their ohms value over time.

Ok, received everything today.. Thanks to Findm-Keepm for the cap.. Very nice of you.. I'm confused which ground to disrupt to connect meter.. Sams shows 2 grounds coming from the bottom of the Horz output tube (6JS6A) but there looks to be three with the black wire.. Black wire or the bare wire right end looks to be the cathode.. But I'm not sure..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2660.jpg


I assume this is the correct way to connect cap

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2667.jpg

You've got the cap right.
This is a guess off the top of my head, but I think the middle might be the cathode. Sam's usually lists pin numbers of tubes on the schematic. The tube numbers count from the key way or missing pin clock wise or counter clock wise depending on which side of the socket you are looking at. Find a pin that you know what it is based on what it is connected to look up the number on the sam's and count. Some elements on a tube have more than one pin connection (grids and cathode usually on HO Tubes). If sam's only lists one pin when two are used googleing the tubes data sheet and looking at the pin out there will give you the whole story.

The Sams doesn't show the pin numbers of tubes on the schematic.. Black wire is connected to pin 2.. The left bare wire is connected to pin 12.. and middle is pin 10.. If all that says anything..

Found this image of the tube on Google images.. If I'm reading correctly it would be pin 2
http://www.qsl.net/nw2m/6JS6C.gif

Assuming I have the meter in the right place seeing how I'm getting readings that make sense.... It measured 170ma, as I dialed in the horizontal, the meter jumped to around 195 - 200ma.. Still the normal range.. I did go past the 215ma and powered the set off real fast and then backed off the opposite direction.. It's now in locked position with meter reading around 195ma. Now I hear a slight pop noise of static electricity every few seconds around the fly area.. The picture is black and white, as i suspected seeing how the scrambled out of horz pic looked, and also real blurry...

Update: I turned down all the drives to about mid way and the picture is much better in focus.. alot of green and blue off images and alot of noise in the picture.. I tested one of the tuner tubes and it's also a questionable tube.. Horizontal and vertical seems to be fine.. HV pop noise went away.. Vertical has good range and locks in the middle.. Color and tint do nothing, though slight crackle in the speaker when adjusting..

Seeing how I'm still new to all this.. I have no idea where to go next.. I suspect this will need a recap.. The electrolytic cans don't get hot, but barely warm after a while..

Turn the color up and adjust the fine tuning from being swamped out with noise at one end to being swamped at the other. Often times you will not get color with the fine tuning just a bit off of the right spot.

If it keeps regularly popping then, with the set off discharge the CRT, and clean the inside of the HV cage especially around and in the HV rect socket and insulator and the top lead of the fly, and HV rect filament winding.

It is safe to let it run up to 230mA for short periods during adjustments, but don't let it sit that way for over 15 minutes.

Oops you're right.. Fine tuning brought color back.. Plus I hooked the cable up to a coax adapter and the picture went from crappy looking to beautiful.. The tint needs to be adjusted.. Tint all the way up makes the face tones better.. The popping went away.. I've got some videos I'll be posting in a few.. To do convergence and set up with test patterns.. What does anyone recommend?

Use a crosshatch pattern to adjust the static (center) convergence using the adjusters on the convergence clover (yoke). *After that put a full red raster on the set either from a pattern generator or by turning down the other screens, slide the deflection yoke back until the screen looks tie-dye, center the red blob with the purity rings, then slide the deflection yoke forward until the screen is all pure red.
After that touch up static convergence, and proceed to the dynamic convergence following the sam's procedure. It is a complex process so you may need to repeat it 2-3 times to get it optimal. If after a few tries you conclude that don't have enough control range try moving the clover around...When you have a good feel for the controls you may be able to know when/how to tweak the clover by instinct. Convergence can rarely be gotten perfect, once you have it good up to 1-3" from the edge of the screen declare victory...If you can do better give your self a cookie and a pat on the back.

* You may need to degauss the face of the CRT first. You can make a degaussing coil easily by taking one out of a newer junk CRT and fitting a power cord on to it.

..It is safe to let it run up to 230mA for short periods during adjustments,...
Sorry, no way. If he's running a 6JS6, it'll be close to red plating at that current. Keep it below 210 if at all possible.
A 6KD6 it will handle higher current safely.

I would like something similar to the Leader LCG-400 that does the color bar patterns and the square/circle patterns to align vert/horz linearity.. Maybe something smaller then the LCG-400.. Something in between $10 - $100... Anyone know of a good make and/or model that does this and everything else?

I've got a degaussing coil.. The set has it's own and works.. I've noticed that the bulb for the UHF tuner is not working, and also when I go into UHF and adjust the UHF channel selector, I don't see any change in the fuzz of the set picking up digital signals etc. Usually you'll hear the static change noise and fuzz change.. The bulb looks like a push in/out bulb, similar to tail light bulbs on vehicles.. I looked in the Sams and don't see anything about the tuner light bulbs.. Not sure if the UHF tuner is completely out, or if the bulb being out also effects the UHF tuner.. Looking through the hole, the bulb looks like it could be burnt out..

Here's the videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Q4R50-rF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glhGhNbOzTw

I noticed that vert height is all the way up, and the pic could use a little more height, as there is slight blackness on the bottom.. Also the centering is all the way down, and adjusting up takes the blank space on the bottom up.. The vert linearity seems to have plenty of adjustment still.. I suspect this would be due to caps that are probably needing replacement.. Should I start checking caps on the Horz/Vert board?

The tuner bulb is likely a #47, readily available. As to the vertical, yes a recap is recommended- the originals are nearly 50 years old an hardly reliable. Check to see if you are getting B+ to the UHF tuner. A switch on the VHF tuner closes in the UHF position, and the switch is usually on the back of the VHF tuner.

Cheers and Merry Christmas,

Thanks Findmkeepm for the info and everything you've done to help me out.. Merry Christmas to you aswell... I suppose I should just order up all cap values on that board, and replacement electrolytics for the cans...

A few questions question:

I'm trying to order the electrolytics for the cans, and a card board electrolytic on the audio / video output / agc / sync separator / sweep board.. Assuming that's the right board to replace all the film caps on also and get the vertical height and centering in better range..

Sams shows the cans with different sections.. I'm not sure if it's showing a rating for each cap in those sections.. Some show a square and triangle symbol.. I'm not sure if it's showing the microfarad of each cap..

C3 is on the board mentioned above.. Looks to be a one section.. Shows 50 and 150 volts.. I'm assuming it means 50mf / 150volts.. Chart also shows a dot above Cap.. So I'm not sure.. I select 50uf 150volt electrolytic caps in mouser and I only get a handful of side mount caps.. and this one in the link would be the only one i could get seeing how mouser has a set minimum for the rest
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Sprague/TVA1414-E3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22QsCVzpjG1J1C6mVFqUbFZE%3d

I did the Mallory part number search on Google and came up with this site

http://www.tedss.com/TC49

I assume I must be correct. on how I'm reading the Sams.. I guess if this site has this value.. I might as well get it from them seeing how the correct part number will mount correctly instead of ordering a random cap that mounts different..

I'm also typing the values for the 4 section cans into mouser and I don't get very much.. Another cap like in the mouser link above and they want $15.80 for one cap.. Not sure if there is another source to get these elctrolytics other than mouser and digikey, and bottom mounts would be better for the cans..

The ceramic disc caps on the sams don't show voltages for any of them.. Should I worry about replacing those or just the film and electrolytic caps?

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2703.jpg

Okay time to drop some knowledge:
Ceramic caps are VERY reliable, and should not be changed except if you have good reason to suspect one in a malfunctioning circuit.
The can caps C1 and C2 in your set are each essentially four different lytics in the same can with the negative leads tied to the can....The four positive leads come out the bottom center and are marked with triangle, square, semi-circle, or blank so that the different positive terminals of the different 'sections' (caps in the can) can be distinguished from each other.
Getting another can exactly like it is a BAD move....Aside from overpriced guitar amp niche cans, can lytics like that have been out of production for decades, and any you find (even NOS) are likely to be as bad as what is in the set.....You are going to have to either re-stuff the cans or find places under the chassis to put the replacements that is just the way it is for us tube based electronic restorers these days.
There are cheaper usable caps that you are missing in your search. First off any cap with a higher voltage rating and acceptable capacitance will work. As for an acceptable capacitance with lytics assume a 10-15% tolerance in cap value is fine (papers and films can be more finicky)....Back in the day parts makers had a different set of standard part ratings then those used today so a 50uF cap is non-standard and more expensive, but a 47uf of the same voltage is common and cheap. The modern standard values include 1, 2.2, 3.3, 4.7, 6.8, 8.2 and any power of 10 multiple there of.

Hope this helps you.

Even though the cans don't get hot, I was told I should replace them anyways.. I plan on restuffing the cans.. Each of the cans show 4 different values so I figured that it's basically four caps per can on the C1 and C2.. I Just found it difficult to find the exact values and wasn't sure if I was able to go slightly up or down on the values.. I know about the neg leads going to the ground and all that, but that's makes since about the positive leads.. I see what you are saying so I can replace a 50uf with a more common 47uf and a 20 with a 22, etc.. seeing how they are very close.. And can find a Nichicon PW series (Brown ones) that are more better I heard.. Let me see what I can find.. So far I found all of the film orange drop caps for the horz / vert osc board..

Update:

I found all.. Greatly appreciated Tom.. What is the name of the rubber hosing that will go around the cap leads for restuffing the cans? I'll need to get a roll of that too..

You are welcome.

I believe it's heat shrink tubing that you are looking for...It has a lot of good uses and lasts better than electrical tape.

I generally leave the cans be if they are cool, there is no hum, and there are none in any CKTs that I've found issues in...When in doubt change them out, or if you have an eye type cap checker test them for capacitance and leakage at or near rated voltage. They are at that age where if they are still good they could last another 30 years or go bang the next time you run it...I'm cheap so I wait until there is reason to replace.

That's it.. Just couldn't think of the term for it.. I just found one of Bob's videos on it also.. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once I get stuck somewhere... Thanks..

On a GE no UHF is usually the UHF IF link.
Its a cable with RCA jacks on both ends. They
crimped the center wire & would go cold.
Bad news they soldered them in & you gotta be
real carefull you dont rip out the jack when fixing it.
If you dont need UHF best to leave it be.

Bulb if a bayonette type a #47 a good bet. If it
has just folded over wires a #159 or #259. Zenith used
those a lot. If its an orange light it may be an NE-2,
its a neon so has no filament & is soldered in.

The vert has an electrolytic off the cathode of the vert out
tube. Its either in a can or separate sometimes on the
convergence board. Very common on all sets. Dont
forget the tube can be bad even if it tests good.
After that go for caps & off value resistors. The higher
value resistors drift more especially around the size control.
Dont change the disc caps, they almost never go.
When they do they short & burn usually. If any are
cracked change them.

Last in your screenshot it looks like the blue lateral is
way off. Its the copper colored magnet & it moves the
blue side to side as opposed to the up& down of the
clover. Dont pull it in & out, turn it.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Thanks for the tips zeno...

Do a google search on the Sprague part number and you will come up with one at Mouser for $5.36 for the 50 mf at 150 volts. They use the Sprague part number as part of their part number.

Do a google search on the Sprague part number and you will come up with one at Mouser for $5.36 for the 50 mf at 150 volts. They use the Sprague part number as part of their part number.

If it was me, I'd use a Panasonic 47uf/200V 105 degree for 85 cents...sure, it's a radial, but could easily be subbed and save the greenbacks.

Most electrolytic caps today are rated with a tolerance of +/- 20% as opposed to +80/-20% of old. 47uf for a 50uf is what we always went with, and the 105 degree caps add a safety/operation margin.

just my $.02.

If it was me, I'd use a Panasonic 47uf/200V 105 degree for 85 cents...sure, it's a radial, but could easily be subbed and save the greenbacks.

Most electrolytic caps today are rated with a tolerance of +/- 20% as opposed to +80/-20% of old. 47uf for a 50uf is what we always went with, and the 105 degree caps add a safety/operation margin.

just my $.02.

I think you mean this one here

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=EEU-ED2D470virtualkey66720000virtualkey667-EEU-ED2D470

It's 99 cent.. The other that's 85 Cents is rated 85 degree maximum..

Most of the electrolytic caps in my cart at mouser are the Nichicon PW series and ones that aren't are either Panasonic or a Nichicon that's rated for 105 degree temps..


That's funny how Bill mentions that Sprague part number that links to the same side mount cap that I listed above.. It would work, but would have to mount it a funky way..

Here's a pic of the bulb looking through the openings with the knobs off.. I don't think it's a #47... it looks to be a #159 or #259 ..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/IMG_4593.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/IMG_4582.jpg

If I were you, and still lived in Florida I take that bulb to Skycraft Surplus in Orlando. They had a good stock of bulbs and various useful parts...Of course it has been ~5 years since I've been there.

Orlando is over a 3 hour drive each way for me.. Orlando does have a great place that sells vacuum tubes.. I was able to order up all the ones needed for this set, on top of that NIB and GE branded tubes.. I'm sure Dave knows about this place and is a frequent visitor... We do have a Light Bulbs Unlimited here.. I think they carry rare bulbs.. I got an old projector bulb from them before.. I could try them before finding somewhere online..

I'm getting a few film caps that the sams calls for, but when I pull the cap, it's a different value.. For instance: Sams says C58 is a .047 300v but I pulled the cap out and looked at it and it reads .022 200v... I'm not sure if this was replaced at one time with a value that's close enough, or if the Sams is wrong..

Some of these caps from mouser is questionable... I'm looking at a replacement compared to one that's installed in the set, and it's tiny compared to the original in the set.. All others are about the same size or slightly bigger or smaller than the original caps.. I don't think I want to install some of these tiny caps...

So far I replaced about 4 or 5 of them, and did a power up test and set is fine.. I didn't make any mistakes...

Unless they are obvious replacements, go with the values in the set. Sam's folders don't always show all the production changes, and has been known to have typos/inaccuracies.

Newer caps, especially lytics, tend to be smaller. If the voltage and capacitance ratings on the replacement are legible and correct then it should be fine.

I've replaced alot of the caps.. Comes to find out on my example up there, I ended up puting a cap in the wrong spot.. The Sams shows one being a ceramic cap, and actually in the set is a film cap, and that was throwing me off track.. So far I've replaced a total of 7 film caps, and the electrolytic on that board being 8, and I don't notice a significant change, both the vert height and HV adjustments are still maxed out.. The HV probe still shows a digit over 20 kv with the HV setting maxed out, not sure if that is fine or not... And the vert height still drifts ever so slightly after set has been on for a while, the bottom blackness rises up ever so slightly.. Found out the popping noise was coming from one of the convergence board wires being near the anode.. I moved it out from around that area and the popping went away.. I ended up cleaning the anode and the shunt tube and HV compartment with rubbing alcohol.. I haven't started on the electrolytic filter caps yet.. I wonder if I will notice a difference once those are replaced... This will be a bit of a project, and looks like I will need to take reference photos before I unmount each..

They are #159 or #259 Zeniths used tuns of them over the yrs.
The "wrong" bulb will either be brighter or dimmer. Also
its life will be shorter or longer !

73 Zeno:smoke:

I don't think I'm able to get to the cans.. The tabs are soldered to the chassis, and my soldering irons are not able to heat the solder up hot enough to where I can even flow the solder around, so I can get out the globs of solder and twist the tabs to loosen the cans.. So many wires in that area, it's very hard to be careful without damaging them with the soldering iron... It's also very hard to even remove the wires.. Thought to myself once I start there is no going back... I didn't get any leads off, so I gave up and hooked the set back up..

Another option I could do is just leave the cans in and unhook them and installed the electrolytics under, but then where do the neg leads to each cap go? to the chassis ground?

I ended up restuffing the electrolytic on the horz/vert board, under the orange cardboard there is a can, took the hack saw and did a hack job on cutting the can open, I drilled holes through the bottom and soldered the new cap to the leads, tried to get out as much tar as possible, ended up making a big mess. It's all back on, but cardboard cover is very loose... Probably should have tried to use paint thinner.. Maybe I will if I can get the other caps off..

As for the cap negatives they may or may not go to the chassis. If the cans mount to phenolic insulating wafers then the negatives do not connect to chassis and you will have to trace where they go, to look for any convienient tie points for the new caps, or run a new wire.

It is not uncommon to have chassis negative and insulated negative cans together on the same chassis so you will have to ascertain negative connections on a can by can basis.

I've replaced alot of the caps.. Comes to find out on my example up there, I ended up puting a cap in the wrong spot.. The Sams shows one being a ceramic cap, and actually in the set is a film cap, and that was throwing me off track..

Keep in mind that Sams' part numbering is NOT the same as the manufacturers parts numbering. GE may call one cap C1, and Sams will most certainly call another cap C1. Use the Sams photos to match up the caps to the Sams schematic/parts list. Sams is not infallible, as it is only a snapshot of one TV in the entire production of many thousands of TVs, with production changes that Sams doesn't always have access to.

Cheers,

I've got a couple of 159 bulbs headed your way, I've got 7 here.

Cheers,

Thanks Findm-Keepm.. I actually have gotten a package of 159 bulbs off eBay last week, and a package of 259 coming.. But I don't mind having a few to spare for future sets..

Adam

Whats the best method to remove Tar from the can? I have Acetone and it doesn't seem to do any good.. At this time of night? What would Walmart have?

If you don't have the cap guts out and think removing the tar is the easiest way to get them free, then I have a little tip for you.

Once you have the bottom of the can with the terminals removed take an ordinary cork screw and screw it into the center of the dielectric/foil roll. Once the cork screw is in fairy deep grab the top half of the can in one hand, and the cork screw in the other and give it a good yank. the guts of the can should come out, and you can then chip the remaining tar out with a screw driver, or other methods like chemicals (goof off might work) or heat.

If they are metal cans...HEAT would be the best way...

It was a sucsees:

Cut it real nice with my saw
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/IMG_4649.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/IMG_4661.jpg

Drilled through the plate just right behind each terminal for positive leads and solder them where terminal comes out of bottom.. Then drilled near a tab I broke off for ground..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2819.jpg

Powered the set on, and no BANGS!!
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2823.jpg

I found that my heat gun worked really well.. Heated it up a few times and stuffed it with an old sock and took a screw driver and did a circular motion a few times.. I didn't get all of it, but the majority is gone.. I did test the old cap and all were still within range with no leakage, though the 80uf was around 69uf.. It was a Son of a bitch to unmount, and mounting wasn't easy either.. I went over to Harbor Freight and bought a cheap 180watt soldering gun and then to Radio Shack to buy a solder sucker, and it even was still hard to remove the solder from the tabs... I'm so not looking forward to unmounting the second one tomorrow night..

Not all guns have enough tip mass to make chassis soldering easy. I keep an OLD 85W soldering iron around for the occasional chassis ground joint. The heating element on mine is bigger around then the handle on most irons, and the tip is fatter than my pinky....That thing will melt ANY solder joint, but you have to hold it there for a while to get everything in some cases.

If you are having problems doing the positive lugs then there is something wrong with your equipment or technique.

The positive lugs were easier than I thought.. I didn't realize at first the wires wrap around the terminals, I heated them up with my regular soldering iron and pull them off with my needle nose..

I don't know what technique people use to get these cans off.. Last one I got off with only breaking one mounting tab off, this one not so lucky.. They are all broke off.. Now I don't know how I would mount this can back on.. Epoxy or super glue? The solder was very stubborn, no matter how long I put my 180watt soldering gun to them.. These tabs just didn't want to nudge though the holes..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2829.jpg

I use needle nose to flatten out the tabs so they fit through. Get the solder off, then flatten them out.

I did the same thing to the last can, but this one It was hard to flatten them seeing how the solder was just not wanting to move out of the way at least... You mean get the solder off of the broken tabs and resolder them onto the can?

No, when the mounting tabs get that damaged (short of trying to solder them to the chassis) the only good way to deal with it is to get another dead can and restuff it....
Alternatively you could just leave the can out, install a solder type terminal strip from radio shack and mount the replacements under the chassis. I've done it before, and while it can make things more cramped there is nothing wrong with it.

Not sure what happened but I remounted, powered on, and now get real bad hum from the speaker, and the little glass crystal on the video/color board started glowing or at least I've never noticed it glowing... I give up.. I guess Dave is going to have to fix this..

Check your last work. If you mounted a cap backwards, mixed up caps, or have a short or base wiring mix up all of that could cause what you describe. I've burned open power resistors on a can restuff, and all I did wrong was confuse which terminals were which (causing a polarity reversal).

If all you did since it last worked was that can, then it should be easy to fix if you pause, and look at it with fresh eyes.

Learning to find your own mistakes is an important part of your growth as a restorer...When you see your own mistakes you will subsequently make less of them.

I removed the can and went over my work on the restuffing job and everything is wired correctly, even got out my tester and tested each lead to make sure each value is right.. I then hooked each cap to their proper leads directly then I ran each ground wire and connected all of them with alligator clippers to the chassis ground.. Looks like a complete mess, but it's only temporary.. Powered set up again and still the problem is there.. I removed the HV output tube when I powered up again and the crystal doesn't glow..

The can was really loose when I powered up the set after restuff job, so possibly may not have been making proper ground connection, or I could have done something to the other exposed caps when I flipped the chassis over to remove/install the second can.. I most likely burned something else out.. There is a small .001 cap that was connect to one of the terminals of the can to ground, I ended up burning it with the soldering iron.. I did check it afterwords and still tested within spec..

If anyone else has an extra can lying around I would probably take it.. I'm most likely going to Radio Shack tomorrow and buy a ground terminal strip and mount them on the bottom, at least with the one can.. May have to drill hole in chassis to install the terminal at a good place under the cans.. If anything I'll just leave the one can empty for looks..

a few things on cap replacement.

Can caps of that era are often fine, no reason to automatically replace unless diagnosis indicates a problem. As you have found out its not easy to remove without damage to cap. the same goes for the film type caps, most will be fine.
Diagnosis is the key.

If a can type needs to be replaced the best approach IMHO is to cut the can off at the shoulder (like you did) BUT do it in place, do not remove the can.
I use a dremel bone saw (my words) to do the cutting. Most caps can be reached with this reciprocating saw. These are often used for cutting door trim when installing flooring.

cutting the can off leaves the base and all the wiring (which often is extensive and may have parts like resistors and small caps attached to the pins) untouched. Leaving the lead dress alone makes it much easier for the next guy if nothing else.

Buy the new skinny caps from mouser, they fit much better the foot print of the base.

using a micro drill bit simply drill holes from the bottom of the base close to the remaining terminals and grounds, then install from the top the skinny caps, no need for extention wires/tape/hot glue or any thing else, the fit right in the foot print.

If you feel the need to replace the outer can, just use some alum duct tap about 3/8 wide to reattach the can.


with this method I can do a 4 section can from start to finish in about 20min.

It sounds like a wiring error. Are you sure the capacitor is hooked as original?
Can you show a picture of the glowing crystal? It doesn't have to be glowing but I've never seen a detector crystal glow. They just flash and open. I've only seen that once due to a shorted IF transformer.
Does this capacitor supply the audio output transformer it's B+?

I went to radio shack and bought a solder terminal as Tom said... I bought solid wires And I'm using these for leads, for extenders... I drilled a hole on the side of the chassis on the upper side next to where the cans are and that's where I'm going to mount this terminal.. I'm going to use the old reference photos follow the color code wires to each shape from the original terminal than read the value of the old can to determine which lead goes to which cap.. Radio Shack had a ceramic .001 cap, So I'm replacing the little red cap that was originally mounted on the old terminals from the can.. I've got the mounted with the 22uf cap as it originally connected..

Old photo:
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2767.jpg

My new terminal mount:

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2844.jpg


I was going to Riveter it into the chassis, but I think that will be a bit hard to do without messing the job up.. I'll run over to Home Depot and buy a screw and nut and do it that way, at least for now.. I'll take pic of the crystal in a few.. Btw it glows similar to tube filament glow, but looks a bit brighter..

I'd add a ground wire and run it to a chassis solder terminal just to be sure of a good ground, but then again I tend to over do some things...

The 'glowing crystal' may be an NE-2 neon bulb if that chassis's the one using an NE-2 in the burst gate circuit.

I mounted the new terminal, reconnected everything, and it's still doing the same thing.. BTW the hum turns up/down with the volume control, all the way down you don't hear it.. I don't know what else to think of.. Either there is a problem with the first can, or I could have accidentally disconnected something else by moving the chassis around.. Or blew something up even though I didn't ever hear anything or smell anything.. I don't know where to go from here, other than give the set to Dave to look over.. I even checked for possible wires for continuity, ground continuity from terminal etc.. And everything looks fine.. I can't check the big green power resistors on the power board seeing how Sams only lists specs for only a few of them, and don't know the values..

Here's a pic of the crystal that glows when HV comes up..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2849.jpg

N701 appears to be a neon bulb...They are supposed to glow orange. They were often used like zezer diodes are now. A gas regulator diode tube (0Z4 for instance) is basically a fancy version of that.

So I guess the problem is only speaker hum.. I did power set up again, and did some tests the B+ voltages are normal.. The picture is the same as it was... I did remove the audio output tube and the hum went away.. Seeing how the audio TS is on the very front edge, and I did set the chassis on it numerous of times, the problem maybe that... I did look at it and I don't notice any issues by eye.. The old can, the last one I replaced seem to have some bad values in it, one value, my ohm meter could not get a reading out of.. It sat there trying... Perhaps maybe I replaced with good caps now causing an issue somewhere else that perhaps was adjusted to bad caps? Perhaps maybe try to adjust any sound coils? When I power set up, I notice a slightly louder transformer hum than I normally heard, and I don't think it's coming from the power transformer, it's coming from the audio transformer..

what was the orig problem?

I don't know what an original problem would be.. But now it's speaker hum..

He means what was the matter with it before you caused the hum.

Here is a good way to isolate the hum: unplug one and only one at a time the audio tubes before the output and see which stop the hum and which don't. For instance if the one before it stops the hum then that stage is not at fault, but if it does not then look for a problem in the components between it and the output.

Don't tweak the adjustable coils unless you can confirm via proper troubleshooting that they are at fault if you walk them too far away from correct when they are not the trouble you will only give your self needless headaches down the road.

There was no other issue before I caused the hum, other than things not related to that..

I unplugged one at a time 6EH7 one and two, and then 6EJ7 that are located near the Audio Transformer still a hum in between..

Unplugged the 6M11, still a hum.. Then I unplugged the audio output tube, again and no hum.. I tested that audio output 6AL11 tube just now again, and the short light comes on, on my tester.. Hmmm... Not sure if a shorted tube would cause that, and it be all of a sudden...

HK shorts can cause hum in audio tubes.

Well, I guess I'll be making a tube order again.. If that is the case than I guess there was never an issue with my restuff job...

does not always but "may" cause a hum. is it a hum or a buzz?

It's more of a low pitch transformer hum sound coming out of the speaker.. Some people may call it a buzz noise.. I've been running the set for an hour now and it has seem to be gone or at least very minimal.. looks like it may be a drift issue..

6AL11 is 1/2 audio out & 1/2 audio detector.
http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/127/6/6AL11.pdf

Bad part is most likely the detector if its a buzz.
Also if the out section were bad the hum wouldnt go away
with the VC turned down. As a rule hum= output
buzz=detector hiss=sound IF.

If its not the tube watch for open coils, the set must be getting
brittle & moving things can do it.
DO NOT tweak the coils !!!!:nono:

73 Zeno:smoke:

what zeno said about the coils. watch out for those flat coils all over the place very fragile and easy to break.

Believe it or not the noise went away on it's own.. I let it run for a few hours last night, then a cold power up just now, and still no buzz.. I think with the volume control all the way up, I can hear a hum noise ever so slightly.. But that's odd how it goes away on it's own...

Well I went to replace some more orange drop caps.. Forgot to resolder one of the resistor leads that I mistakenly unsoldered thinking it was the cap.. And the anode wire broke off.. I resolder that to where it broke off, at the solder terminal next to where the shunt tube wire cap connects to.. Powered the set up, and the HV output tube started to get super bright.. I then resoldered the resistor lead, powered up again, HV output tube lights normal, but HV does not come up now at all.. And I just tested the 6JS6 and it's real weak now.. I don't have any other tubes that are 6JS6 and the RCA models have a different tube number.. Not sure if one from a CTC15 or 16 would work as a substitute to at least power up..

Well I went to replace some more orange drop caps.. Forgot to resolder one of the resistor leads that I mistakenly unsoldered.. And the anode wire broke off.. I resolder that to were it broke off.. Powered the set up, and the HV output tube started to get super bright.. I then resoldered the resistor lead, powered up again, HV output tube lights normal, but HV does not come up now at all.. And I just test the 6JS6 and it's real weak now.. I don't have any other tubes that are 6JS6 and the RCA models have a different tube number.. Not sure if one from a CTC15 or 16 would work as a substitute to at least power up..
RCA chassis use a 6JE6 or a 6LQ6, which is a 9 pin novar base tube. A 6JS6 is a 12 pin compactron base. A 6LB6 or a 6LF6, would work.

Well at least I know I didn't do any damage other than blowing that tube out.. The pic still comes up, but doesn't fill the whole screen and is very dim... Those tubes are very expensive too.. Just found the cheapest, a 6JS6A that's used for $14 including shipping..

With the HV probe it measures at 16 KV.. and it takes a while for it to come up with the weak tube..

Pulled a 6JS6 from my Syvania set in storage.. HV comes up but now I get half a screen, about 3-4 inches of blackness on top and bottom.. Vert height control does absolutely nothing..

Oops.. Found the problem.. A recent resistor I tested and resoldered broke loose..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2856.jpg

N701 appears to be a neon bulb...They are supposed to glow orange. They were often used like zezer diodes are now. A gas regulator diode tube (0Z4 for instance) is basically a fancy version of that.
Just a minor quibble and off topic, but a NE-2 does not pull enough current to function as a supply regulator. A for-purpose tube (like the 0B2) has to shunt a large enough percentage of the supply current in order to regulate.
0Z4 is a cold cathode rectifier for car radios (though possibly it could be re-purposed as a regulator in some one-off project.

Not all zener diodes are directly used as supply regulators. Some are supplied a low current and used as voltage reference devices ie a they have a fixed voltage drop across them when fed a small current from a resistor connected to a larger not so fixed voltage, and there is a good chance that is how TVcollector's set uses that neon bulb.

Look for the classic 6AS7 (the 6AS7 is not a gas regulator) regulator circuit. It uses a gas regulator as a voltage reference for a 12AX7 comparator which then drives the 6AS7.

I guess I need to not pick tube numbers (that I'm not used to working with) out of memory...

On a service call I ran into one of those GEs with bad color sync. It was not fixable with tubes so we shopped it. Ran the usual troubleshooting gamut with nothng out of spec. The NE-2 was lit and looked normal. Finally just replaced the NE-2 out of desperation, and the color sync and tint range popped in perfect.
Turned out the NE-2 was in the burst gate area serving GE's famous 'ringing crystal' system.
Don't remember if it was for voltage referance or for pulse keying. Probably the latter.

I replaced most of the orange drop caps in the HV area, two dark red ones that are .068 in the pic.. Ended up putting a .68 in place of one of them, not realizing which made the focus range different... All on the board have been replaced other than 2 on the audio side of that board.. All the caps that were replaced happened to all be good, which made no difference in performance.. So now the issue lies with the vert height range is all the way up, and after on for about 30 mins there is a very slight shrinkage drift, it's barley noticeable.. I did test with my ohm meter, the big green power resistor that's connect to the bottom of the board in the upper left of pic, and a resistor coming off of that vert height control and were in spec.. Pic shows another green power resistor and some others near the transformers.. Should I check those? I hope I don't need to check anymore things on the pc board..

HV probe also reads slightly over 22KV, that being with the HV control all the way up.. Not sure if that is a problem and if the same thing is causing the vert height issue too.. Also the focus is weird when it come to certain letters, depending on the background behind the letters, convergence is still off too.. Not sure if that would help the focus..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2870.jpg

"all the caps that were replaced tested good"

which is why I preach to NOT shot gun recap this era of TV. the better approach is to simply diagnose the issue and then IF a cap is the problem replace it. there is more likely to be damage done to the old brittle boards and term strips in the process of replacement, plus there is the added bonus of creating problems where none previously existed.

the height issue is prob due to a drifted resistor in the vert osc plate supply from the boost. A quick check of that resistor will tell.

I think it was you that recommended to change out all the caps on the horz/vert osc board.. So I did..

I'm not sure which resistor you are talking about, and where it's located... Would it be a resistor that's somewhere along the line of the plate of the vert output tube? I'm not going to unhook one lead of each resistor on that board to figure out which one is off.. Just my luck I'll end up going through all of them before finding the culprit.. Like you said about the board and causing other issues.. I already burnt out the HV output tube..

i would be surprised if I suggested you replace every cap on the vert and horz, just not my way. there are a couple that generally need replacement on RCA, the diff amp grid caps (every one I have done needed them). but that is only 3 on the chroma board.

I'm looking at the schematic in the sams, and I see a few resistors inline with the plate of the vert output tube, R107 on board close to the vert output tube, and R112 which is located under the chassis.. should I check those out with my ohm meter?

it will be something like 2.2 meg, trace from the plate to the boost supply, there will be a pot and a resistor, prob a .1 uf cap somewhere in there to filter the boost. I has to go real high to be a prob, like 2x or more. check the schematic its prob isolated so can be tested in circuit.

The plate load resistor of the V oscillator often drifts 'waay high. It's a problem common to all makes, both BW and color.

I measured from vert pot to plate and the resistor that is next to the tube is a 2.7 meg that is off quite a bit, reading around 3.2 meg. the next two along the line before plate is pretty much dead on spec and are farther away from the tube.. I'm also measuring them in circuit.. Not sure if the readings are correct.. I was told that some resistors you can measure while still in circuit.. Rather not pull anything off this board unless needed too..

check the schematic, see if its isolated by caps or tube elements, if so then you can check in circuit.

I just ordered up some resistors.. I did find that 2.2meg resistor like you said, that's isolated near the .1 cap.. It measured around 3.0meg cold.. I also tested the Shunt regulator tube.. The tube chart shows a 6EA4.. There is a 6EJ4 in there.. On the tester it tests into the lower good side, and needle falls while in the test mode.. During life test it drops into the "?".. Now would this tube be causing the issue with the HV maxing out only at 22kv?

tube testers are not much good in sweep circuits, subbing for known good ones is the way to go. 3.0 is a little high, but i seriously doubt its the problem.

Well there is another resistor that's slightly high, was thinking between the two is creating the vert problem.. Should I try and change them out, or what else would be the problem?

is the linearity set properly? they interact.

High is relative. I don't know if you know about tolerances, but if you don't here is the deal: The fourth band of a resistor represents the tolerance and is either gold (5%), Silver (10%), or absent (20%). Multiply the tolerance % by .01 then by the resistance of the resistor. This will give you a permissible deviation value. Subtract the permissible deviation from the part's labeled resistance to get the minimum allowable resistance value of the part, or add the deviation to the labeled to get the maximum allowable resistance....If the measured resistance is between the min and max allowable resistances you just calculated based on the label consider it to be a good part, but if it is outside those bounds (or inside and really close to the edge when trouble shooting a tough fault) declare it a bad part and replace it.

I'm able to set Linearity properly with the crosshatch pattern to were all squares are pretty even....

I know a bit about tolerances.. the 2.7 meg resistor measures around 30meg and even higher when hot.. It measure up to 38megs, so I would say that's a bit out of it tolerance..
The 2.2meg resistor measures at 3.0 cold, and even that is slightly out of the tolerance range, I believe..

None of them are one time, or double out of range.. I've measured pretty much every resistor on that board and in the HV section.. Most are within range, just a few that are slightly higher, and maybe even questionable.. But nothing I could find that's way out of spec.. There is a a 12 meg resistor (R141) on the bottom part of chassis that is apart of the shunt tube circuit and measures in circuit at 1.2meg.. I haven't tried measuring that out of circuit yet, and I don't see that being a problem with the vertical issue.

I take the meg and plus/minus the percentage.. Here's an example: 2.2meg plus 10% = 2.42 meg

Seems like 10% is most common, followed by 5%..

I changed the shunt tube with one that gives better emissions, and the HV did go up slighty, and now is at 24kv, still with the HV control maxed out...

The big green 7watt power resistor (in middle of image slightly upper right) that is 13k (R134) measures around 17k...
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2870.jpg

I did a digikey and mouser search for one.. And both don't have power resistors in this spec and wattage..

Now for the Vertical issue.. I replaced the 2.7meg resistor the other day, and it made the vertical slightly better, and now doesn't drift like it did.. Today I replaced the 2.2 meg resistor and another one that was a bit high in spec and also replaced the vert tube, and it didn't do much difference.. When I replaced all resistors today all i noticed that centering was off, and so I re positioned the centering control, and also when I replaced the tube, again all it did was throw off the centering a little bit to where I needed to position the control again.. I get full vertical.. And that's with the Vert height control at 100% maxed out.. But should I have more range? Shouldn't the vert control be around the middle for the maximum height instead of all the way up?

And why is the blue line in the service mode look like this? Should be a straight line across without it doubling.. It was straight before..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2877.jpg

R134 needs to be changed. Look for a higher power rated unit if available. If worse comes to worse get a 10K and a 3K (3.3K might be more common) of sufficient wattage and put the two in series to make 13K.

Thanks for the input.. That resistor is in line with Grid 2 on the Horz output tube.. Wonder if this would help with the HV, and Vertical issues?

Digikey has a 13.5k 7watt one here:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=164919373&uq=635573790918273660&CSRT=3930212702468193910

I think it's close enough...


The horz centering is slightly off.. Seeing how flyback was replaced.. There is no centering control that comes out of the side of the HV cage next to the HV output tube.. How would I go about centering?

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF2887.jpg

R134 needs to be changed. Look for a higher power rated unit if available. If worse comes to worse get a 10K and a 3K (3.3K might be more common) of sufficient wattage and put the two in series to make 13K.

And make sure it is a film type resistor. Those Corning film types are used to eliminate inductance that would be present with a wirewound. Corning FP (light blue) or Mallory MOL (green) resistors were used, but now, any Metal Oxide resistor of sufficient wattage will do.

Edit: Corning Glass Works is now part of Vishay - the Dale/Vishay FP10 series is the equivalent. Mallory no longer makes film resistors.

I wouldn't worry about H centering as long as lin looks good and width fills out all the way, which appears to be the case.

I can't find anything that is film type.. Everything at Digikey is wirewound.. I've tried the different combinations too.. I'm able to find a 10k 7watt film resistor on mouser but 3k or 3.3, no luck.. Anyone of a source besides digikey and mouser that would have this?

You don't have to use series combos. Parallel works fine too.
For example, use a 15k 10 watt film, readily available
cheap from Mouser (some are odd shape) in parallel with a
regular film 2 w 100k.

Or use three 56k 2 watt in parallel with one 47k or 51k 2w.
Or don't worry and use 5 68k 2 watt in parallel.


When paralleling, don't stick them right up against each
other, give them some cooling air.

I've got two 6.8K film resistors, each 7 watts. Series would give you ~ 13.6K. For postage, they are yours - wait until you receive them to pay me.

Cheers,

You don't have to use series combos. Parallel works fine too.
For example, use a 15k 10 watt film, readily available
cheap from Mouser (some are odd shape) in parallel with a
regular film 2 w 100k.

Or use three 56k 2 watt in parallel with one 47k or 51k 2w.
Or don't worry and use 5 68k 2 watt in parallel.


When paralleling, don't stick them right up against each
other, give them some cooling air.


That's all a bit confusing and too much.. Would be much better with one slightly up or down in resistance or two that would make the correct value or close.. Besides that 15k 10watt solar panel looking resistor from mouser you are talking about would not fit or go very well.. Isn't the original green one in there wirewound? it sure looks it, or at least it may be a ceramic one..

I've done google searches with no luck.. Only other option I can think of is Moyers, if they sell resistors..

I've got two 6.8K film resistors, each 7 watts. Series would give you ~ 13.6K. For postage, they are yours - wait until you receive them to pay me.

Cheers,

Thanks.. That would be the better option...

I installed the other electrolytic with the bracket, did a nice clean install, and now the transformer hums real loud.. Sounds like the transformer behind the HV cage, connected to side of chassis.. There was lines on the screen (Hum bars).. I hooked all wires correctly as checked numerous of times.. I converted back to the way I had it previously.. Those caps started sparking.. Now the set just sits there and hums, and now it's completely dead..

Before you ever touched that can, were the metal can tabs connected directly to the metal chassis or were they connected to a brown insulator that was it's self riveted to the chassis?

Some cans (especially B+ doubler lytics, and cans in sets with a B- rail) are designed so that their negative terminal/can is not wired to the chassis (floating can), but some other supply terminal/rail at a voltage different than the chassis.

If you connect the a can that was meant to float at a different voltage than chassis potential to the chassis it will royally mess up power supply operation, and disturb many other circuits.

Cans tabs were directly connected to the chassis.. I reverted back once again to the rebuilt electrolytic... Set powers up, than once a few seconds of warming up, major hum comes from one of the transformers, then sound and screen come on, major wavy pic and color bars, and screen doesn't fill all the way, and then I start to smell something burning... Kinda smells like oil burning...

Sounds like maybe one of your replacement caps might be in backwards.

Gregb

Diagnosing the chassis I noticed this...

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3078.jpg

It's defiantly that.. I have a magic marker wedged in between the two to make connection and powered back up like this, and it runs normal again... Isn't this something that could be bought at the local Radio Shack? A thermistor I believe.. I tell ya, I've been having the worst luck when restuffing the cans, second time I have done this with something else becoming a problem..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3080.jpg

just reconnect the cut red wire and move on.