Here is one of those "other brand" TV's, one that you might only see on the front cover of a Photofact and wonder if any of them were ever sold.

It's a 1967 "DuMont". This TV is an early example of American brand name identity loss due to acquisitions of other companies. The consumer division of DuMont was purchased by Emerson in 1958, then in 1965, Emerson was purchased by the National Union Electric Corp, a diversified manufacturer (particularly, air conditioners) and of course along with the Emerson acquisition came DuMont.

So I found this set last weekend at a local estate sale which happened to be an apartment of all places. Fortunately, I was able to speak to some of the family members at the sale and the original owners lived in this building since 1967 and that's when it was last decorated. It was a unique situation because the building contained three units and the family occupied the entire building. As you can imagine, that's a lot of room for just a husband and wife. The 3rd floor unit was basically never used. That's where the TV was located. That being said, it's obvious why the TV survived with such low hours.

What was also interesting is that this set was still plugged in and the 300 ohm twin lead was still wired to the antenna terminals. I still see this every so often. I turned it on, and to my amazement, the set worked. Not only did it work, but it worked almost perfectly without needing to adjust the vertical. To see this out of DuMont, let alone any tube type set is impressive. The only evidence I see of it being serviced were the replacement of only two tubes out of the entire 25 within the set. The CRT is original.

I have attached many pictures of the chassis as it's one we don't always get to see. The cabinet is built quite well out of solid hardwoods, so the quality for this particular brand is good for what was considered the "junk of the industry" back in it's day...

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08804_zpsbfbdfdaa.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08804_zpsbfbdfdaa.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08787_zps4acab2af.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08787_zps4acab2af.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08794_zps8b7bbbd6.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08794_zps8b7bbbd6.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08791_zpsa7cc7114.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08791_zpsa7cc7114.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08894_zps6d595c02.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08894_zps6d595c02.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08896_zpsf3b200d9.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08896_zpsf3b200d9.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08897_zpsdf1d042a.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08897_zpsdf1d042a.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08899_zpsafac20fc.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08899_zpsafac20fc.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08900_zpsb2a5c655.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08900_zpsb2a5c655.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08931_zps03dfb579.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08931_zps03dfb579.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08936_zps511ca8e5.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08936_zps511ca8e5.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08932_zps7df4b02d.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08932_zps7df4b02d.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08937_zps50a7642c.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08937_zps50a7642c.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08941_zps63493c55.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08941_zps63493c55.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y448/drh4683a/Television/DSC08939_zps0c496676.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/drh4683a/media/Television/DSC08939_zps0c496676.jpg.html)

Wow, I bet that was exciting to find! Very nice! Probably wont see another anytime soon.

thanks for sharing Doug. looks pristine. I am hoping you do a video of in in operation.

Am I correct that there is 3 console stereo's in there?

I think I saw a Zenith color set, and several others, in one of the photos as well.

When you say the "DuMont" set "worked", was it just to the extent that it produced a raster and white noise on the CRT and in the speaker, respectively? I don't see how you can be sure the set actually worked, well or at all (from a reception standpoint), without a DTV converter box ahead of the tuner. I don't see one on that set, or on any other TV shown in the photos; I did, however, see a small white box with the modern block RCA logo connected to the VHF antenna terminals of the "DuMont" TV. I think this must have been a signal splitter for an antenna, although again I don't see how the set worked with just an antenna connected. There would have had to be a converter box somewhere, unless Chicago still has one or more NTSC analog TV stations.

I did not realize Emerson, and later National Union, had the rights to the DuMont name by the mid-1960s. When I saw the title of this thread, in fact, I almost did a double take, since the original DuMont has been out of business since (or shortly after) the TV network of the same name went off the air.

The only TV I ever remember the original DuMont company manufacturing was the 19" console with the continuous VHF tuner. I don't think the company made sets with turret VHF tuning; the large console may have been the only big seller DuMont had. I would imagine the 19" set sold very well in the New York City area, as DuMont operated a television station there (WABD-TV channel 5, now WNYW-TV Fox 5) in the 1950s.

The 19" console is very likely a collector's item today, as there may be very few of them left; most of these sets were likely scrapped by the '60s. I think only one other TV manufacturer besides DuMont (Capehart-Farnsworth) made a TV with a continuous VHF tuner. I owned one of these sets in the early '60s; it was given to me by relatives who had gotten a new (for the time) B&W set.

During the color TV shortage ( before my time) the bosses
best friends brother was an Emerson rep. He always tried
get the line in the store but common sense prevailed.
But when he couldnt get Zeniths & Admirals he bought Emersons & Motorolas
to have something to sell.
Fortunately they were rare back then, probably almost no survivers.
We DID NOT like them.......
They were tube hungry & always seemed to have crappy IF stages.
Yours is cleaner than any I saw at 4 yrs old, even the DGS
thermistor looks new ! A nice catch.

BTW there is a Zenith 19" hybrid remote that should be saved.
Abt D line.
Others are tin can RCA abt CTC38 & a tin can Zenith abt Y line,
both all tube & circa 1968.

73 Zeno:smoke:

The only TV I ever remember the original DuMont company manufacturing was the 19" console with the continuous VHF tuner. I don't think the company made sets with turret VHF tuning; the large console may have been the only big seller DuMont had.

A little "refresher" on early DuMont models, including the famous rare 30 inch round tube model the "Royal Sovereign". The mid 50s rectangular CRT sets all had turret tuners:

http://tvhistory.tv/1950-59-DUMONT.htm

http://tvhistory.tv/1946-49-DUMONT.htm

I have a RA-113 as well as the little portable from 1957 (last year of *real* DuMont production) in my collection.

jr

Interesting find. I found a Magnavox roundie in a similar situation a few years ago with a nice bright original CRT. That Dumont CRT mask looks very familiar. Now I know where Heathkit sourced the mask for their GR-295 sets. I built one in 1970 with the remote option and it lasted to 1984. It is all gone now except for the manuals and the remote. There is a GR-295 photo in this thread (not mine): http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=255398

Jeff, and Zeno: I'm fairly sure all the pictures taken after the one with a "TV free" sign on the CRT are of the set after Doug brought it home...Those sets after that look like parts of Doug's collection that I've seen in his youtube videos.

If there were not so many PCBs there, then a part of me that would wonder if it was a packard bell chassis...Sure looks a lot like one theirs.

IIRC: Chicago still has channel 6 transmitting in analog.

It is an awesome treat to acquire a set from it's original home, one I'd probably come to take for granted if I still lived in Chicagoland.

Jeff, and Zeno: I'm fairly sure all the pictures taken after the one with a "TV free" sign on the CRT are of the set after Doug brought it home...Those sets after that look like parts of Doug's collection that I've seen in his youtube videos.

If there were not so many PCBs there, then a part of me that would wonder if it was a packard bell chassis...Sure looks a lot like one theirs.

IIRC: Chicago still has channel 6 transmitting in analog.

It is an awesome treat to acquire a set from it's original home, one I'd probably come to take for granted if I still lived in Chicagoland.
I bet you a right ! Good the Zenith is safe.
It does resemble a PB chassis, another rarity in our area but a
much better set.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Nice set! The newest Dumont I've ever seen was from the mid 50's. These color sets from the mid to late 60's must be pretty scarce by now, aren't they?

Electronic M is correct. The pics of the TV on the tile floor were taken at my home, thus the background TV's are part of my collection already.

Indeed there were three console stereos at the sale. All of them had already sold which I was pleased to see.

Regarding the working condition of the set, when I said it works, I meant just that; it works with a good picture receiving that of a LPTV signal. Since the set was still wired to the outdoor antenna, I was able to pull in channel 48 on UHF and channel 6 as Electronic M had indicated.

I never did hear much good about this particular chassis. I can see how it would be problematic after a few years of normal use. The large PC boards are like that of a GE and are a lower grade material that probably wouldn't handle heat very well. This is indeed a nice example of this particular brand due to it's low hours and originality. I agree that this chassis is similar in layout to a Packard Bell with that vertical board on the left, however, I don't see any other similarities such as tube types or physical construction. I think this chassis was an exclusive development by NUE/Emerson making it more special and unique.

It was fun to find this one, a nice contrast to the more familiar Zenith and RCA products. I had one other DuMont color set about 10 years ago, it was a 1971 model and it used basically this same chassis. The cabinet construction on the '71 was not as good as this '67. I think this particular set I have here was one of the "higher end" models that DuMont offered at the time.

This is the later chassis style other than the common flat clone used on the earlier rectangle as well as round tube sets. During this time period the cabinets were still generally well made.

I've seen Emerson's from this time period that looked similar but had different trim/bezel colors to differentiate from the DuMont's.

Doug you'd be right about that vertical board being problematic especially back in the day.

Wowie zowie, that's a really nice time capsuled cream puff.:yes:

We were an RCA/DuMont/Emerson dealer back in the day. The DuMont color sets, though not 'real' DuMonts, were no worse reliability-wise than the RCAs or any other line.

When I saw that picture--at first I thought the same thing...there are a LOT of tv's that need saving !! Then I noticed the tile floor and realized it was doug's basement.

NICE find Doug !! Not a normal rca or Zenith either--which is a plus !! I know we all love those 2 brands--but it is nice to get one of the "lesser" brands here and there too.

BTW--I saw an early- to mid 60's Dumont roundie color set sell some time back at the ETF convention.

Regarding the working condition of the set, when I said it works, I meant just that; it works with a good picture receiving that of a LPTV signal. Since the set was still wired to the outdoor antenna, I was able to pull in channel 48 on UHF and channel 6 as Electronic M had indicated.

Thanks for that information, Doug. I was not aware that Chicago had any VHF or UHF analog TV stations still operating after the DTV transition. I remember reading about channel 6 being an LPTV station in Chicago (Cleveland has one too, on the same channel), but not channel 48. I was sure the latter station would have been forced to go digital, and discontinue its analog signal, on June 12, 2009. Did that station somehow get permission to operate in NTSC analog after the transition? :scratch2:

This is the later chassis style other than the common flat clone used on the earlier rectangle as well as round tube sets. During this time period the cabinets were still generally well made.

I've seen Emerson's from this time period that looked similar but had different trim/bezel colors to differentiate from the DuMont's.

Doug you'd be right about that vertical board being problematic especially back in the day.
That model was just another RCA CTC15 clone, right down to the tube compliment.
The Milwaukee Emerson distributor, had a repair shop that would repair the sets, that were DOA.
He went to the Emerson plant in Jersey City for a service seminar. He was telling me, there was a reason why the chassis was assembled that way. The chassis were assembled on the upper floors and hand carried, to the first floor, where the cabinets and CRT's were. They didn't have a freight elevator! :sigh:
That's the reason why the top brace is rounded, like a handle.
That was a time, when they were more or less, on the way out and didn't want to make the investment.

Electronic M is correct. The pics of the TV on the tile floor were taken at my home, thus the background TV's are part of my collection already.


Did you clean it out at all before taking the photos at home, or did it somehow manage to span the last four decades or so clean as a whistle? (I'm thinking that because the couple could afford the place, they probably retained a houskeeper or housekeeping-service, plus the 3rd floor was mentioned to be more or less unused.)

I'm envious, even if it turns out to be a real dog to keep working.

I trash picked a similar set back in 2002 or 2003. IIRC, it went to Dwight. Wonder whatever became of it?

Nice set. Yes indeed that CRT bezel is identical to my heathkit GR-295.

That model was just another RCA CTC15 clone, right down to the tube compliment.
The Milwaukee Emerson distributor, had a repair shop that would repair the sets, that were DOA.
He went to the Emerson plant in Jersey City for a service seminar. He was telling me, there was a reason why the chassis was assembled that way. The chassis were assembled on the upper floors and hand carried, to the first floor, where the cabinets and CRT's were. They didn't have a freight elevator! :sigh:
That's the reason why the top brace is rounded, like a handle.
That was a time, when they were more or less, on the way out and didn't want to make the investment.

Thanks for that bit of info! I would have never guessed that to be the reason for the chassis handle. That must have been a very antiquated plant at the time. Small details are what make these sets so interesting. What I also find interesting is how they stapled all of the labels to the back cover instead of just gluing them. You would figure glue or some other adhesive would have been much easier and perhaps cheaper.

I didn't really clean the set at all when I got it home. All I did was take a dust cloth to the top of the cabinet and face of the CRT before taking the photos. Otherwise, it's essentially untouched.

Wow, that's certainly a very clean and interesting set!

Now I'm curious what those apt buildings were originally built for, with those large glass block windows apparently covering more than one floor. :scratch2:

Thanks for that bit of info! I would have never guessed that to be the reason for the chassis handle. That must have been a very antiquated plant at the time. Small details are what make these sets so interesting. What I also find interesting is how they stapled all of the labels to the back cover instead of just gluing them. You would figure glue or some other adhesive would have been much easier and perhaps cheaper.

I didn't really clean the set at all when I got it home. All I did was take a dust cloth to the top of the cabinet and face of the CRT before taking the photos. Otherwise, it's essentially untouched.
I failed to mention, that it was the technician that did the distributor repairs, that told me that bit of information.
As I said before, I should proofread a little better.
It seems, that Emerson used computer generated labels, a lot earlier than the rest. Magnavox, as well.

Wow, that's certainly a very clean and interesting set!

Now I'm curious what those apt buildings were originally built for, with those large glass block windows apparently covering more than one floor. :scratch2:

They were always apartments. They were built in 1956. The large area of glass blocks were used to provide natural light into the stairwell.

Once again, Doug provides a great reason to tune in. I also enjoy the little "why was it done this way?" factoids. There are lots of those I'm familar with in auto manufacturing, but not so much with consumer electronics.

I wonder what the daily production numbers were like in a smaller operation like that, and what methods of error-proofing were done? I'd think that in a lower-tech operation, with a lot of lower-skilled turnover, you'd have all sorts of problems with misconnections and incorrect tubes installed. Most of these would be caught before they left the plant, but it had to keep the higher-skilled test/repair guys busy!

Thanks for the many photos Doug, not everyone does the YouTube thing. Always enjoy the environment surrounding the find.

Once again, Doug provides a great reason to tune in. I also enjoy the little "why was it done this way?" factoids. There are lots of those I'm familar with in auto manufacturing, but not so much with consumer electronics.

I wonder what the daily production numbers were like in a smaller operation like that, and what methods of error-proofing were done? I'd think that in a lower-tech operation, with a lot of lower-skilled turnover, you'd have all sorts of problems with misconnections and incorrect tubes installed. Most of these would be caught before they left the plant, but it had to keep the higher-skilled test/repair guys busy!

Thanks for the many photos Doug, not everyone does the YouTube thing. Always enjoy the environment surrounding the find.
If you look at some of the last production Emerson products, you'll see that each soldered connection was marked by a felt-tipped marker. It was probably made by an inspector.

It seems, that Emerson used computer generated labels, a lot earlier than the rest. Magnavox, as well.

I find that fact interesting since RCA, Philco and Packard Bell all made computers.

Cool info and neat set Doug!

BTW--I saw an early- to mid 60's Dumont roundie color set sell some time back at the ETF convention.

That was the first ETF convention I went to, and the first auction there that I won. I owned that set for only a few minutes though...I only could haul one set home (and I badly wanted to buy a color roundy set), and wanted a certain black metal Silvertone color roundy (which they auctioned off later) more due to being an apartment dweller back then. Before I bid a nice fellow who knew I wanted the Silvertone more, but was more concerned with not returning home empty handed offered to buy the Dumont off of me if I won the Silvertone...Which I did.

So my first roundy was a Dumont...Technically.

Amazing. Any Youtubes on these Doug?

Once again, Doug provides a great reason to tune in. I also enjoy the little "why was it done this way?" factoids. There are lots of those I'm familar with in auto manufacturing, but not so much with consumer electronics.

I wonder what the daily production numbers were like in a smaller operation like that, and what methods of error-proofing were done? I'd think that in a lower-tech operation, with a lot of lower-skilled turnover, you'd have all sorts of problems with misconnections and incorrect tubes installed. Most of these would be caught before they left the plant, but it had to keep the higher-skilled test/repair guys busy!

Thanks for the many photos Doug, not everyone does the YouTube thing. Always enjoy the environment surrounding the find.


Thanks Chris,

I must say, I do enjoy documenting these TV's via pictures with a written description more than I do making videos. There is something about pictures that in some ways better tell the story. Maybe it's because one can study a picture more so than a video. That's just me though.

Nice find!!!!

Now please pardon the ignorance of foreigner... but in the control panel we have "Color Fidelity"? Is this a simple white balance control or something fancier?

When I saw that picture--at first I thought the same thing...there are a LOT of tv's that need saving !! Then I noticed the tile floor and realized it was Doug's basement.

BTW--I saw an early- to mid 60's Dumont roundie color set sell some time back at the ETF convention.

That was the first ETF convention I went to, and the first auction there that I won. I owned that set for only a few minutes though...I only could haul one set home (and I badly wanted to buy a color roundy set), and wanted a certain black metal Silvertone color roundy (which they auctioned off later) more due to being an apartment dweller back then. Before I bid a nice fellow who knew I wanted the Silvertone more, but was more concerned with not returning home empty handed offered to buy the Dumont off of me if I won the Silvertone...Which I did.

So my first roundy was a Dumont...Technically.

Here's a couple of photos of that DuMont roundie at the 2009 ETF. Looks like an RCA clone.

-Steve D.

The one I was talking about was at the 2010 convention IIRC and it was a lighter cabinet with a different control layout, and IIRC a bigger tuning knob...

The one I was talking about was at the 2010 convention IIRC and it was a lighter cabinet with a different control layout, and IIRC a bigger tuning knob...

But other then all that. Do I get points for even posting an ETF DuMont roundie photo. Lol.

-Steve D.

Nice find!!!!

Now please pardon the ignorance of foreigner... but in the control panel we have "Color Fidelity"? Is this a simple white balance control or something fancier?

The color fidelity control will alter/change the grey scale slightly. Sears had a similar control called "chromix".

@ Steve: Sure! It's actually rather surprising/cool that they had two different ones two years in a row...I was merely pointing out the differences.

@ Marty: IIRC my Airline console has a grayscale tweaking control. I think it's a switch on the back labeled Cinema or Theater or something like that.

The color fidelity control will alter/change the grey scale slightly. Sears had a similar control called "chromix".

Magnavox had a similar switch that changed the image to sepia.

Motorola on some models had a control that went from blue shadows to sepia shadows. It was actually useful to get correct grayscale tracking because the tracking could change when replacing the single-tube chroma oscillator/demodulator.

Yes, my 1966 Magnavox color set had a Chromatone control which added sepia to the picture.

@ Steve: Sure! It's actually rather surprising/cool that they had two different ones two years in a row...I was merely pointing out the differences.

@ Marty: IIRC my Airline console has a grayscale tweaking control. I think it's a switch on the back labeled Cinema or Theater or something like that.

Tom! Are you sure that the Airline set, you have was made by Muntz?
There was a few Wards Airlines, that were made by Hoffman.
It was the same old RCA clone, CTC15 design, that was identical to the Muntz's of the day. The part numbering system was different.
I didn't know that Hoffman was still around, let alone in Chicago. It was bought out by Admiral in the later 60's. :scratch2:

Not 100%. Someone here (Bgadow IIRC) had an Airline combo with and IDENTICAL looking TV section that he somehow referenced the numbers of back to Muntz...That is the only basis I have to think that...Also it has been months since I've turned that set on, longer still since I've read the manual, and ~3 years since I've seen the back so I could be WAY off base going strictly by memory.....
I could check the control labels/manual and try to pull some numbers on it later if anyone cares enough to want that.

Nice unusual set. Chassis looks identical to the one in my Pilot set:
http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=252810

What an amazing find Doug! :thmbsp: The condition of that set looks outstandingly pristine. Did it have any of the original paperwork with it?

Chris

Not 100%. Someone here (Bgadow IIRC) had an Airline combo with and IDENTICAL looking TV section that he somehow referenced the numbers of back to Muntz...That is the only basis I have to think that...Also it has been months since I've turned that set on, longer still since I've read the manual, and ~3 years since I've seen the back so I could be WAY off base going strictly by memory.....
I could check the control labels/manual and try to pull some numbers on it later if anyone cares enough to want that.

My Airline has a Muntz EIA number clearly marked on the back; I never would have guessed if it weren't for that.

The DuMont I have with that chassis, still basically NOS when I got it, had some interesting bugs in it that took some time to fix. After that it became a reliable and reasonably good performer. Something I find interesting is how much trouble they went to to differentiate the DuMont from the Emerson.