Bought this neat EMERSON console over the weekend for $80...
It's pretty cool looking, a little big, but still in nice shape!

No picture at first, then I cleaned all the tubes, moved around the anode wire,
and at least a decent picture on the screen.
Radio works and speakers sound great, phono works, but of course,
everything needs restoring; lot's of capacitors in there.

Looking around, I can't find any model#, other than "ELDORADO" on the tuner glass...
Anyone know what year this is from? My guess was about '63, but the more I look at it, the style appears more mid to late 50's.

Was it a good set back in the day?

Looks like a 23" screen? I would say early 60's also, it's Stereo which makes it no earlier than 1959 and FM Stereo didn't start till 1961.

If there are any original Emerson tubes in it they will probably have date codes on them that could be deciphered, sometimes CRT's have the date printed right on the tag.

Looks like a 23" screen? I would say early 60's also, it's Stereo which makes it no earlier than 1959 and FM Stereo didn't start till 1961.

If there are any original Emerson tubes in it they will probably have date codes on them that could be deciphered, sometimes CRT's have the date printed right on the tag.

You were right, a 23" screen.
That information helped me to find an old add from a '63 newspaper with the same model, minus some extra trim it had.
Thanks for the help!

That's a nice Glaser-Steers changer in there.

Hey that's a nice tv/stereo !
I like Emerson stuff, be interested in seeing more pictures as you get into
the restoration......

Good luck !

I wonder if it has a stereo simulcast tuner (which allowed one to tune AM and FM simultaneously and direct one to one speaker and the other to the remaining speaker) if so that would likely place it before 1961. As that was the stereo transmission 'standard' before FM stereo came into being.

i see the selector says am , fm , am fm , so you are probably right it probably tunes am and fm at the same time

Yes, and the AM and FM tuning knobs are separate, so it would work on the old simulcast system which was an experiment for a couple of years. AM out of one speaker, FM out of the other.

Thanks guys, very cool learning about the simulcast tuner!
I will have to check out tuning in both AM and FM at the same time...
I would have never known about it.

Well, I took out the chassis today, cleaned 50 years of dust, and started recapping.
This has two high voltage axial paper caps I can't seem to find:
a .0039 1000V and a .022 1600V

Where can I find these?
I know I need the 1000 volts or more,
but does anyone know if there is a more common UF value I can substitute?

Just bought some NOS Spragues and Black Cat caps for the .022 1600V, and the .0039 1000V. I found a .004 to replace the .0039.
I could have bought Orange drop caps close to those values, not sure if they would be
better, just as good, or not as good. They were about the same in price as the vintage axials.

Mouser has them in 1600 volts, if you bought old stock Black Beauties I wouldn't use them.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier/DPPM16S22K-F/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF2zuLYRvTa%252ba4NPat0RHZi 0%3d

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/ECW-HA3C392H4/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrFw8Ry1bIy%252bUIbMtnYDelfS 4%3d

Mouser has them in 1600 volts, if you bought old stock Black Beauties I wouldn't use them.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier/DPPM16S22K-F/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF2zuLYRvTa%252ba4NPat0RHZi 0%3d

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/ECW-HA3C392H4/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrFw8Ry1bIy%252bUIbMtnYDelfS 4%3d
I thought as much...
I suppose it's crazy to do all this work, and take a chance with vintage caps;
Just bought the ones you suggested from Mouser...

I'm assuming It's totally fine to use the higher 1600V to substitute the .0039 1000V?

Thanks for the links!!

I agree, it may be a waste of time using NOS capacitors. Even if they test "OK" now, after some time with applied voltage, they could start to break down.

I did a test on a boatload of old NOS capacitors that were my dad's. They were from the 50s and 60s. Some actually did test OK. But after about a minute on the capacitor tester with 450 VDC on they, they started to break down and leak.

You have a nice television there. I would just try to get the correct capacitors. I know that there are some Orange Drops that may fit the bill. Not axial leads but the value is what is important here.

As a RCA/Dumont/Emerson dealership back in the day, we used to sell Emersons with that same chassis in 'em.
They developed a problem of unstable sync/AGC, caused by a single small electrolytic cap (I forget the exact value and voltage). It was silvery colored, located on the pc board in the area indicated.
See if yours has that cap.

I agree, it may be a waste of time using NOS capacitors. Even if they test "OK" now, after some time with applied voltage, they could start to break down.

I did a test on a boatload of old NOS capacitors that were my dad's. They were from the 50s and 60s. Some actually did test OK. But after about a minute on the capacitor tester with 450 VDC on they, they started to break down and leak.

You have a nice television there. I would just try to get the correct capacitors. I know that there are some Orange Drops that may fit the bill. Not axial leads but the value is what is important here.

Good to know about those vintage caps, that was exactly what I thought might happen after some voltage was applied to them.
I don't know why I even bothered getting any...Oh well, had to learn sometime!

Two rules for selecting replacement caps when exact replacements are not available: you can fudge the capacitance by 10%(in most cases) with papers(and to higher %s with lytics), and you can always put in a capacitor with a higher voltage rating than the original (but NEVER go lower).

Most circuits expect a 10-30% on most parts (Lytics could have 50% tolerance back in the day). Capacitors voltage rating is for the maximum voltage that can be safely applied with out blowing them. You could replace a 50V 10,000pF cap with a 50,000V 10,000pF high voltage door knob cap and it would work fine provided you could find the space to mount the larger doorknob cap.

As a RCA/Dumont/Emerson dealership back in the day, we used to sell Emersons with that same chassis in 'em.
They developed a problem of unstable sync/AGC, caused by a single small electrolytic cap (I forget the exact value and voltage). It was silvery colored, located on the pc board in the area indicated.
See if yours has that cap.
Thanks for the tip... That's neat you used to work for a dealership back then.
I checked, and no electrolytics on the PC board anywhere.
Just two large multi cans below...I just ordered all new ones today.

Cleaned up the heavy polished brass control plate and knobs...
It was this cool looking plate that made me think the set was from the 50's. Seemed to me that by '63, they were cutting back on such serious detail on sets...

The other thing is I can't find is a schematic for this set:
the tag from the CRT has the model# 1668
and the Chassis# 549C-566B
but I can't find either on the Sam's website, or anywhere else?
Actually Sam's has an Emerson 1668, but in the tiny photo, it looks like a completely different set, so I'm just not sure.

According to the Sams index it should be folder 502-1.

It's downloadable from Sams for $15.00 but you may be able to get an original copy cheaper from John Kendall at Vintage Electronics
http://www.vintage-electronics.com/ $8 shipped if he has one in stock, ask before ordering to make sure.

The set may look different but the Sams may cover several different models with the same basic chassis.

I thought as much...
I suppose it's crazy to do all this work, and take a chance with vintage caps;
Just bought the ones you suggested from Mouser...

I'm assuming It's totally fine to use the higher 1600V to substitute the .0039 1000V?

Thanks for the links!!

Yes, with capacitors always remember equal or larger working voltage is fine, or better in some cases. Your case for instance; the engineers called for a 1Kv cap and you pop in the 1.6K. Obviously the larger value caps are going to be more rugged and possibly hold out a bit better. On the down side, doing this across the board of all of your replacements would be non cost efficient.

As well you can go larger on the capacitance value, but you don't want to change that a whole lot. Much depends on the circuit really. The main thing is NEVER go lower with your values.

Yes '63 would have been right about right for that pre-multiplex Simulcast tuner. 50s black and white CRTS were never that square.

Also, that record changer is a very well engineered unit made by Philco. The idler wheel has a clutch in it that works with the rest of the mechanism to 'pause' the turntable platter during the change/drop cycle. Pretty spiffy!

According to the Sams index it should be folder 502-1.

It's downloadable from Sams for $15.00 but you may be able to get an original copy cheaper from John Kendall at Vintage Electronics
http://www.vintage-electronics.com/ $8 shipped if he has one in stock, ask before ordering to make sure.

The set may look different but the Sams may cover several different models with the same basic chassis.

Thanks, went with the Sam's, and you were right, same chassis for different models... The schematic I downloaded shows a 21" screen, and mine is a 23".
At first I thought I got the wrong schematic, but it looks identical so far.
Thanks for the good advise!

Two rules for selecting replacement caps when exact replacements are not available: you can fudge the capacitance by 10%(in most cases) with papers(and to higher %s with lytics), and you can always put in a capacitor with a higher voltage rating than the original (but NEVER go lower).

Most circuits expect a 10-30% on most parts (Lytics could have 50% tolerance back in the day). Capacitors voltage rating is for the maximum voltage that can be safely applied with out blowing them. You could replace a 50V 10,000pF cap with a 50,000V 10,000pF high voltage door knob cap and it would work fine provided you could find the space to mount the larger doorknob cap.

Always good to know; I recently had to buy a .05 400V cap, but I only had a 1000V one, and thought the voltage was too much.
Thanks for explaining there is no limit to the voltage.

As far as electrolytics, in multi cans when you have for example:
80uf @ 350v
40uf @ 350v
100uf @ 50v
Does it matter if the 100uf 50v gets replaced with a 600v?
For some reason I thought I should keep the voltage close...
other than cost and size, it wouldn't matter in the circuit?

Actually Sam's has an Emerson 1668, but in the tiny photo, it looks like a completely different set, so I'm just not sure.

One thing to note is that most makers back then put the same electronics in a wide assortment of cabinet options, sometimes having completely different control panel layouts on some models. I have sam's for a couple of my Zenith TV consoles where the screen size, cabinet, AND control panel look nothing like my sets, but from the chassis pictures and technical info it is clear that they are the the correct folders for my sets.

Thanks for explaining there is no limit to the voltage.

As far as electrolytics, in multi cans when you have for example:
80uf @ 350v
40uf @ 350v
100uf @ 50v
Does it matter if the 100uf 50v gets replaced with a 600v?
For some reason I thought I should keep the voltage close...
other than cost and size, it wouldn't matter in the circuit?

You're welcome. You sure could replace the 100uF 50V with a 100uF 600V and it would work fine. The extra size and cost would probably be a bit on the excessive side (especially if the chassis is cramped or you happen to be as big of a cheapskate as me :D), but if you don't mind that there is no other reason not to.

On the smaller caps 50V or less I tend to just yank one from some 90's electronic item in my bone-yard. You can probably grab an assortment of caps that contains several 100uF 50V from Radio Shack for less than a single 100uF 600V cap (though I can say from experience RS don't stock good quality electrolytics).

You sure could replace the 100uF 50V with a 100uF 600V and it would work fine. The extra size and cost would probably be a bit on the excessive side (especially if the chassis is cramped or you happen to be as big of a cheapskate as me :D), but if you don't mind that there is no other reason not to.

Great, now I know! Thanks again...

Yes '63 would have been right about right for that pre-multiplex Simulcast tuner. 50s black and white CRTS were never that square.

Also, that record changer is a very well engineered unit made by Philco. The idler wheel has a clutch in it that works with the rest of the mechanism to 'pause' the turntable platter during the change/drop cycle. Pretty spiffy!

I agree with Truetone on post #4. It's a Glaser-Steers changer.
I know, Philco made their own changers in the 40's and 50's. They might've sold it G/S. G/S sold their changer plant to GE in the mid 60's.
I wonder what stereo chassis the set uses. Some Emerson's used a hot chassis PC board, using 300ma tubes.
Had to be all of 2 watts per channel.

One thing to note is that most makers back then put the same electronics in a wide assortment of cabinet options, sometimes having completely different control panel layouts on some models. I have sam's for a couple of my Zenith TV consoles where the screen size, cabinet, AND control panel look nothing like my sets, but from the chassis pictures and technical info it is clear that they are the the correct folders for my sets.

I can remember buying Sams photofact sets for about $5.95 at the parts jobber and seeing a set completely unlike the one I was trying to fix, then before I walked out, I pulled out the folder and saw the same tubes.:yes:

I have an Emerson 1657 (not a combo) with the same tuner and a fairly good 23CP4, also in Sams 502.
It's speaker is 8" round and below the CRT, same mahogany finish as Magnavox300's

Its possible the capacitor Old Coot Mentions is the screen grid bypass capacitor on pin 8 of the 6AW8 video amp.
This cap caused sync issues in RCA CTC7-9-11-12-16 IIRC

I wonder what stereo chassis the set uses. Some Emerson's used a hot chassis PC board, using 300ma tubes.
Had to be all of 2 watts per channel.
Here's the amp chassis, I just finished recapping it today...
Those multi-can's are always tough getting out of a PC board, but I got it.
This had 7 electrolytics in all, with a multi-can, a firecracker, and a radial.
Also had three .022 paper's.
Has all the original Dumont tubes.

When I first brought this home, there was a noticeable hum when I turned the radio on.

Now I'm going to refinish the cabinet while I wait for the caps for the TV Chassis...
Not sure if this has actual veneer, or that fake paper Magnavox used, but it looks like veneer...If so, I can scrape it down, sand it, and stain it, which would be great!

Looks like your changer has the speedminder feature, it will play at 45rpm with a 7" record, then switch to 33 if it encournters a larger record, so you could actually mix them in one stack. Some G-S changers would also pause the turntable while the next record dropped. on that version of the GS changer the turntable wont even start turning until the needle sets down on the record,

This TV not only has AM-FM simulcast on the AM-FM tuner; it has a decoder for stereo FM as well. Look at the function selector. There is a position plainly marked "FM Stereo." There is a possibility that position is just a switch for an optional FM multiplex decoder which plugs into the chassis, but if the console was made after 1961, the radio is more than likely factory equipped for reception of the then-new stereo FM stations, if the owner's area had them. My best guess is that most of the time, the radio stayed on AM since FM was relatively new in the '60s, with few mono, let alone stereo, stations to be found unless the owner was in or very near a large metropolitan area.

This TV not only has AM-FM simulcast on the AM-FM tuner; it has a decoder for stereo FM as well. Look at the function selector. There is a position plainly marked "FM Stereo." There is a possibility that position is just a switch for an optional FM multiplex decoder which plugs into the chassis, but if the console was made after 1961, the radio is more than likely factory equipped for reception of the then-new stereo FM stations, if the owner's area had them. My best guess is that most of the time, the radio stayed on AM since FM was relatively new in the '60s, with few mono, let alone stereo, stations to be found unless the owner was in or very near a large metropolitan area.

The components that were removed have a code date of late 1960.
The radio has only eight tubes in it. It probably has provisions for an add-on MPX adaptor. :scratch2:

A nice set, one of the nicer Emersons. And that superb Glaser-Steers record changer and the HiFi icing on the cake.

Oooops! I goofed. Upon close examination of the thumbnail of the front panel, I saw that the "stereo" position of the function selector is not for stereo FM; it is, rather, one position of the stereo-mono switch for the phonograph, the "mono" position being right below it, looking at the function switch from the front.

Thanks guys, very cool learning about the simulcast tuner!
I will have to check out tuning in both AM and FM at the same time...
I would have never known about it.

So-called "AM-FM stereo" was a very crude attempt at reproducing stereo sound on radio. The AM station carried the left channel of the program, while the FM station carried the right channel of the same program. I never heard the system in operation (by the time I was old enough to care about it, the present-day stereo-multiplex FM system had superseded the AM-FM one), but I can imagine it probably had its share of problems, one of which being that, if you were not within listening range of both the AM and FM stations, the stereo effect would be ruined. The stereo multiplex system in use today is much better, but you still must be within listening range (normally not more than 30 miles) of the station to get decent stereo separation.

About the only thing you will get today if you try to tune in both AM and FM simultaneously on your console's radio tuner in "AM-FM" mode will be separate programs on both bands, even from AM and FM stations operated by the same media group or broadcasting company.

I'd keep that console, however, since it is a collectors' item by virtue of the AM-FM stereo capability of the radio tuner. There probably aren't many of those left, as they were probably scrapped when the TV went bad (bad flyback, CRT, etc.) and the owner got a true hi-fi system and separate TV, probably a small portable.

In Chicago WBBM simulcasts it's AM news broadcasts on FM...Though you would probably just hear two channel mono(and it's news so even if it was somehow stereo it probably would not improve the experience any).

The nice part of simulcast tuners is that the AM sections tend to be over engineered to produce HiFi AM that better matches the audio capability of FM. The result is that if you have an AM music station that strives for HiFi audio quality in their signal your set will likely better reproduce it than any other tuner that you might own.

While waiting for some capacitors, I decided to go ahead and strip down the cabinet.

I was happy to see this was solid wood & veneer!
It wasn't in bad shape when I got it, but had significant scratches on the top, and inside the record changer and tuner areas... Looks like new now...

I used Zipstripp with a sharp paint scraper, then steel wool with the same,
then sanded down with 100, 120, and 150 grit.
I re-stained the cabinet with Red Mahogany.
Tomorrow, I think I'll use boiled linseed oil on top of the stain,
it will give this a vintage hand rubbed finish, which is what most of these had I believe...

Finished the recapping of the TV chassis today, and got both the chassis and CRT back in the cabinet...

I sprayed some Slip Plate on the CRT where the old tags were...
this always happens when I redo a set, and I have often wondered if the small amounts of Aquadag that come off with the old CRT labels will affect the CRT at all?

The picture and sound are good now, and the longer it runs, the nicer it is looking! I only ran it for about a half hour tonight, but here is the result so far...

Got the amplifier back in today, turned it on, and the sound was great, besides some hum and scratchy pots...Fortunately, the pots were at the right angle inside the cabinet to allow me to spray in some Deoxit, now it sounds perfect! Very full sound, lots of nice bass, with just the right highs.

I got rid of the old 4 MFD speaker crossover caps, one measured almost 6...
I had some polyester 2uf 100v's, which I doubled up for each speaker set. They will need to break in for a bit, but sound great already!

Both AM and FM stations do play at the same time, one on each channel, which was mentioned in earlier posts, thanks again everyone for pointing that out-
There are neat dual pilot lamps for the radio, one for AM, and one for FM, with an additional pilot lamp at the bottom of the cabinet that shows through a nice red jeweled lens on the speaker grill.

The picture on the set is very nice, but the bottom of the picture is shrunk a bit; at first I thought it was the vertical tube, but it measured strong with no shorts.
The centering didn't make a difference when I tried adjusting it, only for the top of the picture, and there is no vertical height, or linearity adjustment, so I'm not quite sure what could get rid of it...
(The photo I took makes the picture look washed out, but it's not, I had to brighten the photo to show the shrinkage.)

Its great to see an Emerson come out like this, a combo no less.
You did a fine job on the refinish!

Emerson is like Westinghouse's equally unusual cousin.

BTW- Pull off the vertical hold and brightness knobs, the vertical height and Linearity are accessed using a small flat blade through the hollow shafts.
If the vertical is till flaky, there are 3 or 4 resistors in the megohm range off the hgt and lin pots. Also a 10 mf cap off pin 8 of the 6AW8 video amp tube.

Hey that's a nice tv/stereo !
I like Emerson stuff, be interested in seeing more pictures as you get into
the restoration......

Good luck !

Yes old Emerson stuffs is good :thmbsp:but the recent models , not at all.. :thumbsdn:

That last pic showing the top of the TV with the radio controls suggests a really beautiful job on that cabinet! How about some good glamour shots showing off the cabinet?

Its great to see an Emerson come out like this, a combo no less.
You did a fine job on the refinish!

Emerson is like Westinghouse's equally unusual cousin.

BTW- Pull off the vertical hold and brightness knobs, the vertical height and Linearity are accessed using a small flat blade through the hollow shafts.
If the vertical is till flaky, there are 3 or 4 resistors in the megohm range off the hgt and lin pots. Also a 10 mf cap off pin 8 of the 6AW8 video amp tube.

Thanks for the compliment,
and especially thanks a million for all the tips on fixing the vertical!!
I am going to try tomorrow, and will post how it comes out...
I could never even begin to repair any of these sets without the help of such knowledgeable Television repair artists!
Thanks again!

That last pic showing the top of the TV with the radio controls suggests a really beautiful job on that cabinet! How about some good glamour shots showing off the cabinet?

Thanks!
Just waiting for the top lids to be stained, then I will show some better pics.

Pull off the vertical hold and brightness knobs, the vertical height and Linearity are accessed using a small flat blade through the hollow shafts.

Dave, that did it...
I adjusted the vertical height and linearity located behind the vertical and brightness knobs like you mentioned. I didn't have to turn them too much, and it pulled the screen down just enough.
It's a bit of an art coming up with a fine balance of the height, linearity, and centering rings to make the picture just right.
Thanks again for letting me know!

Now, there are only a few thin white lines going up on an angle across the screen at the bottom of the picture, not sure what that's from...

Well, even though I was able to get the picture back to normal with the vert. Lin and Height controls, after about an hour it started to shrink at the bottom again.
I was going to test some resistors and caps, so I took out all the tubes, except three that are shielded, since the metal shields are soldered in place...

This may be a dumb question, but does anyone know how I can get these tubes out without unsoldering the shields??

You should be able to rotate the top half of the shield and push it down to expose the top of the tube.

if the shields are not the twist and push down type, but rather a single piece, then look for a hole near the bottom of the shield on the side. Insert a thin flat tool (I have a fibre glass rod just for this) between the tube bottom and the socket and give the tool a twist. this will lift of the tube by pressing the tube base off from the tube socket. FYI you should not have to check all the tubes, shrinking from the bottom is prob a power supply issue or more likely a bypass cap on the vert out tube.