Snowed like hell today in Buffalo, so figured I'd venture out to a couple estate sales.

The second and last estate sale I went to today (it was just too snowy and the roads were REALLY bad) was at a house in the very rich, very old section of the city, I later found out that the woman in the house lived to be just over 100 when she recently passed.

Today's find at that sale was this Victor Electrola model VE10-69E. This one was made in 1928, and cost $850, which translates into $11,400 in today's dollars. Something that you didn't spend on a record player unless you were a captain of industry! Only 1,900 of this model were ever made. I can't find anything on the 'net about them, other than a page on the victor-victrola site that has this set at 3 stars out of 4 for rarity.

According to that site, this machine is worth between $500 and $3,000+.

It's missing the tonearm, platter, and motor but is otherwise complete and original....speaker and amplifier haven't been touched since new. It was sitting across from a beautiful Steinway upright piano that wasn't for sale.

Does ANYone know anything about the Electrolas, or know anyone who has this or a very similar model, by chance? At this stage in the game, I'm not sure what to do with it, but after 4 hours of cleaning it, it has me absolutely captivated......the last picture shows it presently after careful cleaning.

That had the early record changer in it. The area with the slanted bottom was the place where the records were placed after playing. These machines are very rare. I have a VE10-90 that is complete and unrestored. I got it from the grandson of the original owner over 20 years ago. Mine was originally in the lobby of a hotel that was a notorious house of ill repute in the 20's and 30's. Mine is one of less than 600 that were made and cost $1,250 new.

It was kind of fortunate that we had such a heavy snow today. It's incredibly heavy, but, with the help of a worker at the sale, slid easily slide it across a snow and ice covered road, and right into my waiting van :)

What are the odds of being able to find a replacement changer for this, being that they are so rare? Is it a worthwhile endeavor to restore electronically? I've been thinking that a resto-mod using the original amplifier and a different era-appropriate turntable assembly might be the way to go at least until I could find a changer.

Doing so, of course, in a way that won't alter the original should I happen across one.

Wow, that's a nice find! Just gotta love the Buffalo weather these last few weeks huh?

I'm about had. Between clearing snow, a van that wouldn't start, and wind chills in the -20 range, I'm worn out. And at this point, I'm starting not to care what the house looks like, which is highly HIGHLY unusual for me.

GREAT score, Tim !

And now the plot thickens.....

I knew the amp didn't look right, from everything I saw in pictures I spotted here and there online.

Someone in or around 1940 retrofitted the amplifier with an RCA MI-12202-B 15 watt commercial grade amp, with push pull 6L6. Pulled it out, and there it was, cosmetically perfect but really dusty.....

-not all original anymore..... oops....

Still nice looking...

Yeah, well, you can't have everything I guess :)

The more I look at it, the more I think that a resto-mod is the way to go here, and doing so in a way that won't alter the original if I should somehow actually find the parts. My mantra is generally that if it is with me, it has to be made to work in some way shape or form.

Still pondering here....

You can find late 20's electric single-play units fairly easily still. They made the same basic design up to the mid to late 30's with only minor changes in appearance, etc. The tone arms are rather heavy with those horseshoe pickups they used then though, so I wouldn't play any rare or one of a kind records on it.

I thought that was strange to see the amplifier still intact. It seems when these turn up, the amp is usually pulled. The record changer is a massive unit that you would really want a second person's help to remove.

I did get a chance to see one of these working- the owner spent years working on it-I believe the amp and maybe the changer were missing when he bought the cabinet. It sounded okay-but even the electrolas produced the next year sounded so much better than that thing. I guess the quality could edge out an acoustic orthophonic Victrola, certainly having a volume control would have been a plus.

I kind of like Truetone's idea- pick up a beat-up RCA Victor RE series electrola. You'll have plenty of room for a single play unit like that in the cabinet, and the audio from the 245 amp will be much better.

I have a semi-functional 1931 RCA changer that I'd consider parting with.

You could probably get a small fortune for that amp if you know of any good Audio Sites. :D

Seriously though doing something cool like fitting it with a newer turntable would be great!
Something appropriately upscale though like a 1950's Thorens or Garrard, no 1970's BSR or VM for that baby.

I like that RCA amplifier, to me it's more interesting than what was originally in there. RCA was on top of the world in that era, and that amplifier has the world changing 6L6 right after they came out. If this was mine I would repair the amplifier, and put something like a Pilot FM tuner on top of the cabinet.... inside I would use a reclaimed 3 speed VM changer, or something useful for playing LP records, who really can listen to hours of 78s anyway? If the speaker is good, keep it, if not, a Jensen or even a Quam would work nicely.

Well, my plan for the moment is to restore the MI-12202B amp and plan to use that until such time as I can find the original one. Honestly, I much prefer the RCA amp to the original. I just hate working on 1920s tube gear.....I'll do it if I have to, but I hate it.

Hopefully Electronic M will sell me the changer for this thing.....I'm all tingly just thinking about it :D

I'm about had. Between clearing snow, a van that wouldn't start, and wind chills in the -20 range, I'm worn out. And at this point, I'm starting not to care what the house looks like, which is highly HIGHLY unusual for me.
When you mentioned a van that wouldn't start, I remembered that is the only vehicle you own, that isn't a Mopar. :D

Well no, I actually sold the '58 Plymouth back in September, and used the cash to put a new roof on the house. Wife has a 2006 Beetle, I also have a 2007 Cadillac DTS, neither of which are any good for hauling.

And the van? She's a 1985. Gotta give the old gal some leeway, y'know ;)

Today's find at that sale was this Victor Electrola model VE10-69E. This one was made in 1928, and cost $850, which translates into $11,400 in today's dollars. Something that you didn't spend on a record player unless you were a captain of industry! Only 1,900 of this model were ever made.

Very nice my friend!!!!!

That Electrola is an excellent find. As others have mentioned, it is quite rare (especially the changer, which probably had a very intricate and complicated mechanism [for the time]), so I'd say go ahead and try to get it working, even if it means using the original RCA amplifier and a '50s changer (Garrard or some other high-end brand, but good grief not a '70s BSR) for now. (I had a Zenith integrated stereo system years ago with a BSR changer, and had not one bit of trouble with it, but mine may have been a rare exception to the rule.)

The Electrola's cabinet looks good too, and made of real wood, no doubt--not the pressboard of which today's media stands, etc. are made.

That RCA amplifier looks like it may have been originally intended for use with a small sound-reinforcement system. For many years we had an Allied-Radio Shack (IIRC) amplifier, vintage 1950s or so, at the heart of the sound system in our church. That amplifier wasn't too terribly powerful, but it did the job until it was replaced some years later by a larger amplifier which I was in charge of setting up and taking down before and after Sunday services. Can't recall the brand, though. :scratch2:

One reason for the rarity of those changers is that they were made with pot metal parts which deteriorated rendering them inoperable, so many were junked. Also, the WW2 scrap metal drives took their toll on these and many other such machines.

Just thought I'd add this... ;)

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=177461&d=1357578381

Well no, I actually sold the '58 Plymouth back in September, and used the cash to put a new roof on the house. Wife has a 2006 Beetle, I also have a 2007 Cadillac DTS, neither of which are any good for hauling.

And the van? She's a 1985. Gotta give the old gal some leeway, y'know ;)

It dawned on me, after I posted the message.
I mistook you for Carmine. :sigh:

I met Carmine many years ago. He's better lookin and has a full head of hair :D

This is what I've come up with so far. I've temporarily "robbed" the turntable out of my Crosley 10" combo, which appears for all intents and purposes, to have never been used. Not ideal, but I might be able to make it look nice :) . I intend to make a board out of the same wood, and bolt it down over the existing cutout, using the existing holes to secure it.

Problem is that there are two belts on the turntable for the changer mechanism that I need to get. They are roughly 2 1/4" circumference, and 1/4" wide. About the size of a #61 rubber band.

Anyone know where I can get them? I hate to just use stupid rubber bands on this thing. There are no markings on the turntable to identify the manufacturer.

Try www.turntablebelts.com
I have used them before, they let you order belts by length and width as well as make And model

Hm, maybe their part number FBS2.3 will work. Thanks for the link :)

Hm, maybe their part number FBS2.3 will work. Thanks for the link :)

Just remember to go with a size shorter than the measurement so the belt has enough tension to not slip under load.. If you're not sure order a couple sizes. Also get a can of rubber renue (mg chemicals) for that idler if you don't already have --- I swab it on with a q tip until the q tip stops getting
Black, it really helps. The centre platter bearing
Can be removed and degreased with isopropyl alcohol and then packed with cAr
Wheel bearing grease and a couple drops of 3 in one oil (that's my secret formula to make
It run super quiet, I read it online years ago )

Well, here's where I'm at :)

RCA amp has been restored and is now back in place. I have to pick up a new 5Z3 though or resolder the pins, as there's a loose or broken wire in there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQX9piu2kK4&feature=youtu.be

The FBS2.3 belts ended up being too big, so for the time being I used heat shrink wrap, and shrunk it right around the capstans. It works *okay*, but slips a little on startup.

I replaced a dead wire on the phono cart, and still nothing. It's an Astatic LT-3 cart, have to see if I can find something that will work in there.....or find a good one.

Wow. I just noticed this. A brilliant find.

I have seen the original amplifier on ebay. And the speaker I believe was probably the model 106 which pops up now and then.

The challenge will be finding the original changer. I believe was the second Victor changer like the one in a Victor 10-35 but with an electrical horseshoe pickup. I believe it would have looked like this on on You tube but they are so rare i have never seen one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkHxXL4jebE

you could always restore it "as remodeled" with a changer or single play player about the same vintage as the amp and speaker, or a 50's garrard wouldn't look too out of place. Then keep an eye out for a victor unit of similar vintage that might have the right amp and speaker, or changer.

For the moment, I'm enjoying it hooked up to a CD player. I burn music in mono on my computer and create CDs. It's actually working out nicely, and the sound is AMAZING!

Trying to work out an intermittent issue with the RCA amp in there that's driving me NUTS though. There's an intermittent scratchiness coupled with the sound level dropping out that occurs every few minutes, or sometimes not at all. Replaced all the tubes, and that's not it. The amp's been recapped. Gonna have to pull the amp and check all the solder connections and just start replacing resistors next. Hoping it's not a transformer :sigh:

Penthode- you are correct in that the changer is the same as on the 10-35. Don't think I've ever seen a changer up for sale by itself. On one of the phono forums, someone is selling a very nice 10-35 for 2k, which is a fair price considering how rarely any of these machines comes on the market.

Re: the scratchy sound- check your tube pin connections. I just dealt with a Dynaco amp that was doing the same thing after a recap.

Flakey pots can do the same thing.

If you want a 50's Garrard changer I have a clean one I'd let go dirt cheap (I've been meaning to put it in a radio club donation auction for some time now).

That could also be a cracked plate resistor on the voltage amp or phase inverter tube. Does scratchiness mean like a crackling
Sound that comes and goes?

And drops the volume tremendously. That's exactly what happens. I'll have some time this weekend to pull the amp for the dozenth time and give it a look.....

I had this problem on an old DeVry movie projector amplifier. It turned out to be a defective plate resistor thermal cycling, it was fine when cool but when fully warmed up would go way high in value, which had the combined effect of making noise and reducing gain, then it would cool down and the whole cycle would repeat - annoying! Eventually it failed to the point it was crackling all the time and was easy to troubleshoot.

I would try to operate the amplifier so that the bottom is accessible and measure the plate voltage on all the small tubes, then try and catch it when it starts misbehaving and take the same measurements. My guess is the plate voltage will change drastically on one of the tubes or tube sections. I would begin with the first voltage gain stage, since if the problem was in the phase inverter it would more likely be an increase in distortion rather than a drop in gain, as one half of the push pull amplifier came and went. My guess is one of the resistors is packing it in after it warms up - would be much nicer to sort this out by changing just the defective part rather than a shotgun approach, RCA Camden is mostly torn down and the likes of this amplifier will never be seen again as a commercial product.

If the problem doesn't occur with the amplifier on its side (bottom of chassis well ventilated) try hitting the underside with a blast of hot air from a hair dryer, specifically near the input tube sockets to try and provoke it.

Unfortunately, the Electrola will be going up for sale shortly. My 11 year old's quad was stolen from my garage last night, and the only way I'll be able to afford to replace it is to start selling off a few things.

If I don't, it'll ruin his summer. Detectives all over the neighborhood this morning. If anyone's interested, please send me a PM.

It might be a good idea to mod the next one with a hidden ignition kill switch...

It might be a good idea to mod the next one with a hidden ignition kill switch...

What good would that do? I'm sure they aren't going to try and start it in the garage and drive it away. Once they got it to where they are taking it, a little checking would find the kill switch.

Call me a kill joy but quads are accidents waiting to happen,
The spinal injury statistics they produce make motorcycles look safe, maybe it's a sign to find a less dangerous pass time (sorry I couldn't help but post
This!)

Before I decide to do anything with it, I'm going to give the police a chance. You wouldn't think that they'd put as much effort in as they have. A total of 5 cops and 3 detectives are now involved, and they sent a CSI box truck out with people gathering evidence. You'd swear it was a murder scene. I love the Cheektowaga NY police department now, I really do.

No worries, maxhifi.....I myself prefer 3 wheelers....lol

It might be a good idea to mod the next one with a hidden ignition kill switch...

They didn't even run, they were still drained for the winter and one had a dead battery.

Amazing that someone would go to the effort to push something that heavy(I'm assuming it must be comparable to a riding mower), even if it was only to the end of your driveway, just to steal it!

The old honda three wheelers from the eighties are a blast, hey? I feel like every time
I've been on one it's am miracle it didn't end up on top off
Though, especially with that third wheel
Riding high in between the ruts on quad trails! You're lucky to have such responsive police, if that happened around here you'd file a report and that would be the end of it. No luck with insurance ??

Nah. They claim that's covered under ATV insurance, which of course I don't have.

(sigh)

Tim (kamakiri) very nicely offered me the opportunity to buy the RCA amplifier from this console. I accepted, I have always liked RCA commercial sound equipment and this amplifier is right up my alley. The noise problem turned out to be a noisy plate load resistor on the first 6N7, and also a noisy 6N7. I didn't have a spare 6N7 but did have a 6A6 (same tube with pre-octal base). I took the base off a rusted through 6SK7 and rigged up the 6A6 to work as per photo... And work it does, the amplifier sounds great and I have been enjoying using it every day. It's not "hi fi", but it sure makes music. See attached image with the ridiculous (and temporary) adapted 6a6.

And you know what happened yesterday? Someone gave me one free Bozak B-300 Provincial speaker! Too bad the shipping would kill ya, or I'd give it to you :)

Swapped out the 5881's I see.... ;) . Glad you got it going!

And you know what happened yesterday? Someone gave me one free Bozak B-300 Provincial speaker! Too bad the shipping would kill ya, or I'd give it to you :)

Swapped out the 5881's I see.... ;) . Glad you got it going!

Those 5881s need a home in a 50s Williamson amplifier... they're way too nice for this RCA... they will go beside the Mullard EL34s in my too nice to use tube stash ;) those old Canadian Marconi 6L6G's are from a hamfest and are well used... plus they really look the part. It's a bit odd how one is slightly larger than the other, but whatever, I think I paid $3 each or something back in the early 90s.

I ordered 5 NOS 6N7's from Russia on eBay... cost $15 shipped. I have had pretty good luck with old Soviet tubes, I am sure these will be no exception.

I would LOVE the Bozak, but you are right, shipping would be completely insane. How about posting a picture?

You know, I think I actually have another pair of those 5881s. I *think*.....

This is the Bozak. Friend of mine texted me, and he said it was sitting outside, and he had to leave out of town. With a chance of rain in the forecast, I hustled over and grabbed it :)

You know, I think I actually have another pair of those 5881s. I *think*.....

This is the Bozak. Friend of mine texted me, and he said it was sitting outside, and he had to leave out of town. With a chance of rain in the forecast, I hustled over and grabbed it :)

That speaker would look fantastic in the same room as a French provincial RCA CTC-17.

I have the drivers from a pair of Permoflux Diminuette speakers from the early 50s, and a Radio Electronics article with plans for cabinets. I plan to build one of them, and use it with the RCA amplifier. Right now it's hooked up to my testing speaker ( an old minimus 7)

Hold on to those 5881s... tubes like that will NEVER be made again.