View Full Version : 4K: the not so distant future of tv


technicolor
07-02-2013, 11:29 PM
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/television/tv/six-marvels-of-the-4k-revolution-at-sony-pictures-studios-in-la-1146838


. Sony F65 8K camera

The F65 is the pride and joy of Sony's 4K operation. Worth upwards of US$50,000 (about AU$48,500, £32,650), this is the Ultra HD camera that Sony Pictures is using to shoot all its movies and TV shows. It actually shoots at a native resolution of 7680 × 4320. That's 8K, or 33.2 megapixels - four times the resolution of 4K, which in turn is four times the resolution of Full HD. So take the number of pixels in a Blu-ray picture and multiply by 16. What's more, it can do it at any framerate up to 120fps. This allows film crews to downsample after shooting so they can be sure they're working with the very best pictures.


http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/other/Sony%20Pictures%20Tour/P4232475-580-90.JPG



2. 4K film scanners

Even Laurence Olivier classics from 60 years ago can be watched in 4K. But first the original film must be rescanned. This isn't such a bad idea, either - film typically captures a lot more data than ever makes it onto the screen, and our Sony guides tell us that 4K is finally the right resolution to capture and present all that picture information on screen for the first time. These machines scan original film in 4K resolution at around 1.5fps, but that's just the start of the process…
This 4K scanner can capture detail from the original film that other formats miss
3. Colorworks remastering suite

The big problem with film is that it degrades over time, so the older it is, the more work is needed to get it into shape - a task made ever more complicated by the sheer amount of detail and data captured by 4K images. Sony's Colorworks remastering suite is where movie directors come to master their movies, frame by painstaking frame. Some artefacts like noise and white spots can be removed by an algorithm but most defects require an engineer to polish up every frame individually.
Remastering movies in 4K means working in frame-by-frame detail
Sony is constantly remastering classic movie and TV titles, and currently has over 100 4K movies in its library, new and old. While some movies can take just a few months to remaster, Lawrence of Arabia has taken nearly three years to get into a condition where the studio was happy with it. We can tell you it looks absolutely stunning.
But after all the work, the finished product (in this case, Breaking Bad) is dazzlingly good
4. Remastering facility with 11PB local storage

Of course, with hundreds of movies being scanned and edited digitally in 4K, that data needs to be stored somewhere. Sony Pictures Studios has networked servers with 11PB - that's 11 petabytes, or 11,000 terabytes - of local storage. All of this is also backed up locally and elsewhere on tape. Every green light in the image below represents a separate drive, and contained on these drives are forthcoming native 4K movies like The Amazing Spiderman 2 and After Earth, so in a way, you can now say you've seen those titles before your friends. In a way. Sort of.
Every green light represents a drive containing a 4K native movie
5. High quality sets

With every generation of picture improvements comes higher production values. Long gone are the days of the Fawlty Towers sets that nearly fall down whenever a door slams shut, or Dallas window backdrops that were clearly painted by school children.
Filming in 4K means there's no room for shortcuts in scenery
Check out the window on a 4K TV set. Even standing on the set, the window is convincing.
This window scene looks as though you should be able to step into it
Looking up close, only the set furniture gives the game away.
When every detail shows, you have to get every detail right
To pull off this look requires extremely high resolution photography.
High resolution photography replaces set painting
It also takes superpowered backlighting which can be dimmed and coloured to give the illusion of daylight or dusk.
Backlighting is carefully controlled to create the passage of time
We had a walk around one of the sets for the forthcoming Showtime cable drama Masters of Sex starring Michael Sheen. It was the nicest house we've ever been in, yet it's built on the same soundstage where Wizard of Oz was filmed in back in 1939. Sadly, we weren't allowed to take pictures on that set, so you'll just have to watch the show.
6. Sony's professional OLED monitor

Sony's 4K sets make use of the company's super-awesome professional grade OLED monitors for displaying footage in all its natural splendour. The F86 camera can output several different video channels so that different members of the crew can tune into different feeds. The cinematographer needs to be able to see the natural lighting, whereas the camera operators might want to view the footage with different contrast setting so they can see exactly how much detail is being captured in the dark areas of the picture.
Different crew members can select a different feed from the F65 camera
And a few other cool thing we spotted at Sony Pictures...

Who you gonna call?
The Breaking Bad RV

. http://cdn3.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/other/Sony%20Pictures%20Tour/P4232554-580-90.JPG


http://cdn3.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/other/Sony%20Pictures%20Tour/P4232546-580-90.JPG


http://cdn2.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/other/Sony%20Pictures%20Tour/P4232562-580-90.JPG

ChrisW6ATV
07-02-2013, 11:57 PM
Very nice technology. I have seen the 65-inch Sony 4K TV demo at local Fry's stores. It looks quite detailed, but you have to be VERY close (about 3-4 feet away from that 65-inch screen, maximum!) to see the difference. Further away than that, and a 1080P set is good enough.

technicolor
07-03-2013, 12:18 AM
Very nice technology. I have seen the 65-inch Sony 4K TV demo at local Fry's stores. It looks quite detailed, but you have to be VERY close (about 3-4 feet away from that 65-inch screen, maximum!) to see the difference. Further away than that, and a 1080P set is good enough.

Was it running true 4k content or upconverted stuff?

ppppenguin
07-03-2013, 01:55 AM
This article cuts the hype: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/25/the_future_of_moving_images_the_eyes_have_it/

An important message is that if you want any real benefit from 4K or 8K then you need a higher frame rate. Still pictures can use the full resolution but as soon as anything moves you lose a lot.

I saw a demo of NHK ultra high resolution TV during the Olympics. Not sure whether the screening was in 4K or 8K nor do I know the frame rate but it was impressive. On a big screen with wide angle shots you could see all the detail. It was like sitting in one of the best seats in the stadium.

jmetal88
07-03-2013, 01:54 PM
This article cuts the hype: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/25/the_future_of_moving_images_the_eyes_have_it/

An important message is that if you want any real benefit from 4K or 8K then you need a higher frame rate. Still pictures can use the full resolution but as soon as anything moves you lose a lot.

I saw a demo of NHK ultra high resolution TV during the Olympics. Not sure whether the screening was in 4K or 8K nor do I know the frame rate but it was impressive. On a big screen with wide angle shots you could see all the detail. It was like sitting in one of the best seats in the stadium.

I wouldn't think you'd necessarily need a higher frame rate, but you'd definitely need a better bit rate than that at which current high-def video is encoded.

EDIT: Ah, I see what you mean, though, now that I've read the article. Yes, motion blur would still be a factor at 4K resolution given current frame rates.

Sandy G
07-03-2013, 03:11 PM
Amazing....And glad to see that Sony looks to be at the forefront again...Been a Sony man/big fan since my '62 5-303W...

Dave A
07-03-2013, 06:08 PM
4k is coming and it is coming fast. Broadcasters and set mfrs are now in a dead-heat tie on developing the technology. It took 10 years for set mfrs to catch up with broadcasters in HD. Mostly learning how to make flat plates and decide on a single format.

And the testing is already on the air in some places. Lot's of little tidbits in this article;

http://svgeurope.org/blog/headlines/live-from-confederations-cup-sony-4k-passes-the-test/

Lots more to learn to ship it by satellite, OTA, cable, etc. Bandwidth is an issue by multiples.

And then there is 8k floating out there. If 4k is 4 times HD, 8k is 16 times HD. Save your HD sets...future collectibles sooner than we thought.

NewVista
07-04-2013, 10:54 AM
Don't cinemas still use perforated screens? Not only do these muffle the sound, but they mess w/ high res. Not to mention the teenage operators hardly ever get focus right. Therefore I wasn't too impressed with the new Sony 4k projectors installed locally. For the price of these projectors they could make microLED panels for perfect focus, wider gamut, lower energy consumption.

NewVista
07-05-2013, 05:50 AM
Are digital projectors already nearly obsolete?
High definition LED wall panels now a reality (http://www.hibino.co.jp/english/chromatek/chromaled3.html)
With much competition in this technology, unlike projectors

ChrisW6ATV
07-05-2013, 05:31 PM
Was it running true 4k content or upconverted stuff?
The demos at the Fry's stores are using true 4K video from a media-player box, to the best of my knowledge. It was definitely clearer than 1080P video.

technicolor
07-06-2013, 09:37 AM
The demos at the Fry's stores are using true 4K video from a media-player box, to the best of my knowledge. It was definitely clearer than 1080P video.

The sony media player is out, looks like a rip off if u ask me. It's a hard drive.

The 4k files are so freaking enormous, there is no disk.

Jon A.
07-06-2013, 10:33 AM
Technology is changing so rapidly, and competition so fierce that build quality will continue to plummet and fairly soon even the richest and dumbest may not be able to keep up. We may be heading for a "techpocalypse" so to speak.

Rod Beauvex
07-07-2013, 09:33 PM
Broadcasters can barely get 1080 right. They'll stumble over themselves trying to do 4K. The best they'll do is make 4K look the way 1080 is supposed to.

dtvmcdonald
07-08-2013, 07:01 AM
Broadcasters can barely get 1080 right. They'll stumble over themselves trying to do 4K. The best they'll do is make 4K look the way 1080 is supposed to.


IF ... and that's a very big if ... they do that it would be great ...
since almost all 1080 on Comcast looks like upconverted 480i, at best.
Typically it is amazingly hideous.

Doug McDonald

technicolor
07-08-2013, 10:40 AM
IF ... and that's a very big if ... they do that it would be great ...
since almost all 1080 on Comcast looks like upconverted 480i, at best.
Typically it is amazingly hideous.

Doug McDonald

Comcast started out as a mob operation out of philly. Suffice to say, nothing has changed.

They are the definitive reason as to why monopolies should not exist. Lousy product and atrocious highway robbery pricing.

Jon A.
07-08-2013, 12:45 PM
They are the definitive reason as to why monopolies should not exist. Lousy product and atrocious highway robbery pricing.
Case in point: Microsoft Windows.

Rod Beauvex
07-08-2013, 05:49 PM
That said, i would love a 4K computer monitor. As good as LCDs have gotten, we took a step back resolution-wise with LCDs.

Jon A.
07-08-2013, 07:45 PM
My understanding is that LCDs are also fixed-resolution, not cool.

Eric H
07-08-2013, 09:16 PM
My understanding is that LCDs are also fixed-resolution, not cool.

Well they are fixed pixel, so what I understand is that each individual pixel is controlled individually, Plasma is also. Resolution can be changed but it requires some dithering, i.e they have only one Native resolution.
This is probably a good thing as long as they are run in their native resolution.

The LCD Monitor I use is 1680 X 1050 and if it's changed to anything else it pretty much looks like crap or the image is distorted, at it's native res though it's great.

Jon A.
07-08-2013, 09:42 PM
Yep, same with my old laptop (long gone). I run my CRT at 1024x768. I figure if I go much higher I could either damage the monitor or bog down this old Mac. Something about the Hz measurement, which I don't know anything about, makes me wary of pushing its limits.

NewVista
07-09-2013, 07:15 AM
Sony owns Columbia producing 4k Cinema & 2k Television, they also make TVs.
At least 4k resolution necessary for cinema because 3D requires at least 2k x 2k
Their 4k TV is only fallout from their cinema work - Hollywood needing a superior
differentiated product (including 3D) to compete against other media (like early 1950s).
But Movie Theater business-model collapsing
Broadcast Television business-model collapsing
Television receiver manufacturing collapsing (running in the red for Sony),
as display technology soon commoditized with emerging fine-pitch LED

ChrisW6ATV
07-09-2013, 11:30 PM
Comcast started out as a mob operation out of philly. Suffice to say, nothing has changed.
Wow, you sure nailed it on the head. John Malone is one of the biggest criminals in this country.

ChrisW6ATV
07-09-2013, 11:34 PM
That said, i would love a 4K computer monitor. As good as LCDs have gotten, we took a step back resolution-wise with LCDs.
I have never seen a CRT monitor that could come even close to the better LCDs such as the one I have here at home, and I owned a Sony GDM-W900 at one time.

4K monitors are on the way from Asus and maybe others.

Rod Beauvex
07-10-2013, 10:48 AM
I have never seen a CRT monitor that could come even close to the better LCDs such as the one I have here at home, and I owned a Sony GDM-W900 at one time.

4K monitors are on the way from Asus and maybe others.

I'm referring to being locked to 1080p, whereas a monitor could typically go a higher.

ChrisW6ATV
07-10-2013, 06:50 PM
OK. That Sony, as well as my LCD monitor, could "accept" a 1920x1200 signal, but while the CRT struggled to display individual pixels, the LCD does so with no problem. You are right that vertical resolutions above 1080 have become much less common since the move to 16:9 displays.

vts1134
07-23-2013, 02:05 PM
Comcast started out as a mob operation out of philly. Suffice to say, nothing has changed.

They are the definitive reason as to why monopolies should not exist. Lousy product and atrocious highway robbery pricing.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Electronic M
07-26-2013, 12:11 AM
Originally Posted by technicolor
They are the definitive reason as to why monopolies should not exist. Lousy product and atrocious highway robbery pricing.
Case in point: Microsoft Windows.

Case in point: Apple.

Jon A.
07-27-2013, 02:58 AM
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