View Full Version : multi section cans 49 rca rutland


technicolor
07-01-2013, 09:12 PM
got a multi section can in the bottom of my rca rutland, it's in a card board tube. See no way of getting in there without cutting the tube. Any ideas?

Would it be ok to cut it and seal it back up with tape?

Also, how do u get a metal can multi can setup off a chassis? are they soldered on?

and finally, why are they in a tube anyway?

Electronic M
07-02-2013, 02:19 AM
A picture would prevent me from making two explanations, but here goes.

If the can has all it's wires running all the way into the can thorugh a wax seal there is no good way of rebuilding them that I'm familiar with.
If the card board tube has terminal lugs on the bottom end then it is actually a metal can with a cardboard sleeve(which can be removed intact with force, heat, or some combination there of).

There are two schools of thought on rebuilding cans.
The first(which is what I do) is to unsolder all connections to the can, untwist the 3 or 4 outer tabs which hold the can to the chassis or wafer(if there is a wafer be careful not to break it), remove the can from the chassis, pry up the outer ridge of the bottom of the can, pull out and save the ring on which the outer tabs reside as well as the terminal board beneath, use a cork screw to pull the old guts out of the can, attach new caps to the terminal board and ring, stuff new caps terminal board and ring into the can bend the outer edge of the can down to hold it all in and stick can back into chassis and retwist outer tabs to retain it.
This method is harder to spot then the second method and better if you want really stringent aesthetic originality on the chassis, but it is more work. There are threads on this with pictures that describe it better than my words. Be warned make SURE you have the caps installed right before you put the can back together. If you have it wrong you have to start again, and it is much harder to figure out it is wrong after it has been assembled.

The second method is to cut the can just above the shoulder on top of the chassis install the new caps on the exposed terminal board, and then glue the can back on over it at the end.

The tubular form factor is a long story(you asked for it :D).

The tube form factor remains due to the way electrolytic(and most non mica or ceramic type) caps must be made to be small. A capacitor consists of two plates of metal, the thickness of which is usually of little importance, separated by a dielectric. The thickness of the dielectric is inversely proportional to capacitance and the area of the plates are directly proportional to capacitance. The thickness of the dielectric is also directly proportional to the working and breakdown voltage ratings of the cap. Thus the dielectric thickness is chosen first based upon desired working voltage, then the plate area is calculated based upon chosen dielectric thickness and desired capacitance. For low voltage and or low capacitance parts this area is relatively small, but once you start to get over .01uF it begins to get unwieldly to build flat. Because the plates can be as thin as we want them (within practical manufacture-ability) and the dielectric also tends to be thin(the plates together with dielectric can be anywhere from under a dimes thickness to paper thin in practice) we can make the area a LONG rectangle, add another piece of dielectric to the mix(to keep the plates from shorting during the next step), and roll the dielectric plate sandwich up down it's longest dimension(like a carpet). This produces a tube of the form factor we all know. In addition to packing lots of area into a small physical volume that is easy to handle rolling has another advantage...Both flat area sides of a plate are surrounded by the two flat areas of the other plate thus doubling the effective plate area when rolled, and allowing for plates in a rolled tubular to be built with half(sometimes even less) the area and materials needed in a two plate flat capacitor(such as mica and ceramic disc types). ...In short they save money and space.

bandersen
07-02-2013, 10:01 AM
It's likely in a cardboard tube for shock protection because the outside of the can isn't grounded.

Here are some links about rebuilding can caps.
http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=246148

http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=224039

Kamakiri
07-02-2013, 11:19 AM
I don't rebuild cans. I simply undo the wires and mount the new caps underneath the chassis.

technicolor
07-02-2013, 11:23 AM
I don't rebuild cans. I simply undo the wires and mount the new caps underneath the chassis.

I like that, sounds simple, but what what the purpose of the metal or cardboard sleeve?

Kamakiri
07-02-2013, 11:34 AM
Not really sure, I suspect the above replies are accurate. I never really cared :D

That one underneath you may not have room to mount other caps safely on the bottom. Might have to fire up the compressor and buzz it off with a cutoff wheel, then feed the new cap terminals through the bottom, from the top side. At least that's the way I would do it....but I don't care about making everything under the chassis look like it did 60 years ago, I just want it to work right. Everyone's got their own approach.

I know the cap you're talking about, and it's probably got a phenolic base, which is really brittle and will crumble if you're too rough in trying to get it apart.

egrand
07-02-2013, 12:33 PM
Joe, I'm not familiar with the set you're working on or the specific can, but I'm new to the tv stuff too. I just recapped my first can in my little GE portable last week. If it's anything like your's, they are way easier to do than what it looks like. I cut it open at the shoulder as described above and as bandersen shows in some of his videos. The aluminum can is very thin and cuts with just a utility knife and a little pressure. Just kind of roll it under the knife point until it breaks through. This method would also help keep from breaking the plastic in the base. As was said, just make sure you connect the right pins to the right caps and insulate everything really well.

I'm going to take this opportunity to say something else too. One thing that I don't see get pointed out enough to newbies, on this site and others, is something I learned a long time ago working with wiring, cars, and later radios: a multimeter is your best friend. Especially checking for continuity (ohms setting). In this case, it is a good idea after completing the recap, to check each of the pins to the case/ground and to each other to make sure there's no shorts. If you have one with a capacitance setting then you can make sure you have the right caps on the right pin. Of course it doesn't mean everything is ok, but it is a good idea to check yourself, even for experienced people. I use it all the time in tight spots and PC boards to make sure I didn't bridge something with solder. It is also a good way to trace long wires in bundles. I'm color blind and I can't tell you the number of times I use it to make sure I have the right wire.

Ok, soapbox time over. Just wanted to point that out. Back to our regular programming....

bandersen
07-02-2013, 01:48 PM
I like that, sounds simple, but what what the purpose of the metal or cardboard sleeve?

Aside from just holding it together, the metal can is the common negative for the caps inside. The cardboard sleeve is there to prevent you from getting shocked if you touch the can. Typically only an issue of the set has a hot chassis.