View Full Version : panasonic travel tv 1 inch screen


timmy
11-08-2012, 07:14 PM
does anyone know these little bw tv sets? just got one and appears it dont have horiz nor does it have crt heater. the hv it has but its 2kv so i dont know what it should be but it has that much. with the other little sets it was the horiz hold pot but not this one and im not sure where it gets the heater voltage from, im guessing from the flyback. if anyone knows these give me a shout.:D

crtfool
11-08-2012, 07:48 PM
What is the model number?

timmy
11-08-2012, 07:58 PM
tr-1010p panasonic

crtfool
11-08-2012, 08:05 PM
OK - now I know what to tell you. This is the worst model of the Travelvision line - it is going to need a complete recap of all the electrolytic capacitors. You also need to see how bad they leaked, and how much damage has been done to the very fragile traces on the circuit boards. Also, the ribbon cable portion of the circuit boards are very fragile, and tear very easily.

Good luck!

timmy
11-08-2012, 08:24 PM
OK - now I know what to tell you. This is the worst model of the Travelvision line - it is going to need a complete recap of all the electrolytic capacitors. You also need to see how bad they leaked, and how much damage has been done to the very fragile traces on the circuit boards. Also, the ribbon cable portion of the circuit boards are very fragile, and tear very easily.

Good luck!ok i found out about the ribbon but ill fix that but the caps are the culprit? some of the cap leads have some green on them like it was stored in a damp place. caps will cure this junk because it dont have the crt heater as well.

timmy
11-08-2012, 08:35 PM
are there any issues with any of the ICS that you know of ?

ctc17
11-08-2012, 08:55 PM
Why dont you run over that with the lawnmower and ill send you a watchman. I have a few floating around here somewhere with spots teams logos printed on them. :boring:
What am I ever going to do with all this junk!
You can get a BT modulator going on a good homemade antenna and take the micro tv outside when you have your ciggyclogger. :smoke:

I get 500' of coverage easy with my modulator and antenna on a watchman.:banana:

Sandy G
11-08-2012, 08:55 PM
Anybody know if the color version, CT-101, had similar problems ? For it to be a "Flagship" type of product, they sure were cussedly "Cheap"...You'd THINK they woulda spent more than 15 cents on the cabinet...Seems like I spent $350 in '84 on mine...Had the local hdware store order it up special...Got LOTS of Fisheyes, too..."You want THAT ?!?..For the same money, I can get you a 27" REAL TV.."

crtfool
11-08-2012, 08:55 PM
The IC chips generally do not fail, but they could be damaged from leaking electrolyte from the caps - if they are not corroded, then they should be OK. Green corrosion on the capacitor leads is 1 sign that the caps are defective. A complete recap should bring the TV back to life, if all the circuit board traces are not compromised - if they are, then they need to be repaired. An ESR meter would be very helpful if you do not intend to replace any capacitor that does not look physically damaged - they most likely will be electrically damaged.

crtfool
11-08-2012, 09:00 PM
Anybody know if the color version, CT-101, had similar problems ? For it to be a "Flagship" type of product, they sure were cussedly "Cheap"...You'd THINK they woulda spent more than 15 cents on the cabinet...Seems like I spent $350 in '84 on mine...Had the local hdware store order it up special...Got LOTS of Fisheyes, too..."You want THAT ?!?..For the same money, I can get you a 27" REAL TV.."

Sandy - the CT-101 is very electronically sound. The plastic cabinet is it's worst enemy, as well as people leaving batteries inside to corrode, out-gas, and leak.

crtfool
11-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Why dont you run over that with the lawnmower and ill send you a watchman. I have a few floating around here somewhere with spots teams logos printed on them. :boring:
What am I ever going to do with all this junk!
You can get a BT modulator going on a good homemade antenna and take the micro tv outside when you have your ciggyclogger. :smoke:

I get 500' of coverage easy with my modulator and antenna on a watchman.:banana:

ctc17 - I like junk, you have anything that I might be interested in the way of these small CRT or LCD TV sets? What model Watchman TVs do you have?

Sandy G
11-08-2012, 09:12 PM
Sandy - the CT-101 is very electronically sound. The plastic cabinet is it's worst enemy, as well as people leaving batteries inside to corrode, out-gas, and leak.

Kewl ! Don't think I've EVER left the batteries in mine more than a night or 2...It sure was a HANDY little trick to set yr Camcorder up with...No more purple or green faces...And it AMAZED people, too...I have a candid shot of a buddy of mine holding & watching it, he has this look of utter amazement on his face..

ctc17
11-08-2012, 09:51 PM
ctc17 - I like junk, you have anything that I might be interested in the way of these small CRT or LCD TV sets? What model Watchman TVs do you have?
Someone at the swap meet had a big box of them, I felt sorry for them and got the whole box. Its around here somewhere, I have no idea where.

The small stuff just isnt real practical sense the analog shutdown. Ohh and my eyes suck so that really makes them pointless.

Ill look around here when I get some time and Ill give timmy first shot sense he seems to like tvs that require B&D to get working.

I do like and have several restored 60s vintage small metal sony sets. Those are super cool.

crtfool
11-08-2012, 10:00 PM
ctc17 - Thanks. Of course Timmy should have first choice.

AiboPet
11-09-2012, 09:46 AM
Yup...the 1010 is deffinately gonna be a project.

I have two of those now...."in a basket". I ended up tearing the flexi circuit and had to mess with the connections on both sides of that small rigid ribbon cable. I'd had the original set since new, and had nursed it back once from a loss of vertical. Now it's just a basket case since it lost all signs of having a tuner one day and I was only making it WORSE getting into it. I have it and a "parts set" that showed up doing NOTHING...both in a little Kleenex box coffin.

Decided to just pay attention to keeping the 1020,1030 and CT101 up and running.

The 101 DOES have a terribly creaky case...and always appears to just not be right, but that set has not ever given me drama.

timmy
11-09-2012, 01:30 PM
well i capped the section that runs verticle, horizontal, hv, and still no horiz deflection or crt heater voltage. i applied 3v to the crt heater and it glows so thats ok so now i will change the horiz deflection controller ic. got nothing to loose but time. although it does have some hv, 2kv but dont know what its supposed to be, i would think it wont be much more for a 1 inch crt.

AiboPet
11-09-2012, 01:44 PM
With no horizontal....I'm surprised you have HV (and 2K on a 1" set sounds about right if I had to just guess). I forgot who, but someone around here was floating around with a SAMS or at least some schematics for this 1010 set. I almost asked him for a copy.

timmy
11-09-2012, 01:53 PM
well it looks to me that the crt heater wires come from the flyback so unlees the drive is low due to a bad ic, i dont know but it would be cool to get this thing running.

AiboPet
11-09-2012, 02:41 PM
Probly won't be too much drama as long as you don't hamfist the little flexi circuits like I did. This is NOT the sort of set to get impatient with (EXACTLY what I did when I got it to go and suddenly nothing when I put it together again). There IS a 1010 schematic or SAMs being offered by one of the users here. If I could remember who it was...he'd likely just email it to you.

I was gonna ask him for a copy...but it would likely lead me to get back into the little thing (I have TWO now...both not working), and it's not really a fun set to work on....but they are fun to have running :-)

timmy
11-09-2012, 03:59 PM
wow that would be great to have a copy to figure this out..:D

crtfool
11-09-2012, 08:56 PM
Are you sure that all the traces are intact? It is very difficult to do a point to point continuity test on those circuit boards. I completely recapped the main board on mine, and was confident that I repaired all the traces, when the ribbon cable tore completely off - now it is living in a scrap parts junk drawer. I saved the CRT as part of my CRT collection. I bought a replacement unit in excellent physical condition, but not working condition, as a placeholder for my collection. I will not be attempting to repair another 1 of these again.

jhalphen
11-10-2012, 05:30 AM
Hi to All,

I proposed the 1010 manual to Aibopet - no reply.

For those you want it, give me your Mail by PM.

File is a 4 meg pdf.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

timmy
11-10-2012, 09:00 AM
:D:DWhy dont you run over that with the lawnmower and ill send you a watchman. I have a few floating around here somewhere with spots teams logos printed on them. :boring:
What am I ever going to do with all this junk!
You can get a BT modulator going on a good homemade antenna and take the micro tv outside when you have your ciggyclogger. :smoke:

I get 500' of coverage easy with my modulator and antenna on a watchman.:banana:

well when i get tired of trying to get it going ill try the lawnmower,lol. and what you should do with all your junk is what dont work you should get going including these little tvs,b@w or color much harder then the tube sets but im sure you can get them going. this 1 inch tv is weird i have never seen a crt as small as this but it would be funning to get a pic on it. and besides if i get it going i just have to clip a 75-300 trans to it and laugh at it while im watching spongebob, lol,lol. well it has clear sound so thats not a problem so im thinking if it has sound then hopefully the video is there for when i get the crt to light or whatever the problem is. and btw i put a new video tube in the maggie but it didnt really brighten it up so maybe ill take it apart and sell off the parts , ahhh, such as life with tvs.:scratch2: :sigh: and what you should do with stuff or junk is send it to someone that will take care of it or use it.

ctc17
11-10-2012, 10:05 PM
:D:D

well when i get tired of trying to get it going ill try the lawnmower,lol. and what you should do with all your junk is what dont work you should get going including these little tvs,b@w or color much harder then the tube sets but im sure you can get them going. this 1 inch tv is weird i have never seen a crt as small as this but it would be funning to get a pic on it. and besides if i get it going i just have to clip a 75-300 trans to it and laugh at it while im watching spongebob, lol,lol. well it has clear sound so thats not a problem so im thinking if it has sound then hopefully the video is there for when i get the crt to light or whatever the problem is. and btw i put a new video tube in the maggie but it didnt really brighten it up so maybe ill take it apart and sell off the parts , ahhh, such as life with tvs.:scratch2: :sigh: and what you should do with stuff or junk is send it to someone that will take care of it or use it.

Naw dont give up on or part the maggie. One at a time timmy. Fix the one inch one then take a break then work on the maggi.
Its the challenge of fixing the crap more than anything, im like that too. I only have fun disposing of these modern plastic sets I still find 1-2 of each week.
I would love to see some pictures of the inside of the set you are working on.

timmy
11-11-2012, 07:11 AM
na ok i wont part with the maggie, but this is what im working on and its like brain surgery so small but i think i know whats wrong here. and i did get the schematic from the other member and its a big help. ill know today if its a done fixed deal. and much to my surprise this crt requires 4700kv for proper operation which seems like alot for this size crt,wow.

ChrisW6ATV
11-12-2012, 02:18 AM
Hi to All,

For those you want it, give me your Mail by PM.


I sent you a message. Thank you for offering the TR-1010 manual!

timmy
11-12-2012, 08:11 AM
well i got the horiz deflection running and got 4700kv at the crt and 550 volts for focus only now i dont have verticle all i have is a line across the screen but i think i damaged the verticle deflection processor by probing and i think i touched 2 terminals and shorted it or the short was there when the diode went bad and now it shows since the horiz is running . now the verticle ic gets hot on the ic where there is voltage at the pin that should not have what it does. i subbed the focus diode for one i have but im going to put a 1n4007 which i think is 1000v 1a. this circuit supplys alot more then i thought being this diode was bad i had nothing. i located an electronics joint in la that has this verticle ic so i might as well just do it and get it over with. for anyone that wants to work on these little sets had better think twice because it is extremly difficult to get around inside without any wires breaking off or trying not to move the ribbons around. the ribbon already broke and i repaired it.

Sandy G
11-12-2012, 08:57 AM
Let's face it- Americans, w/our ham-hock sized hands, just AREN'T sposed to be able to work on these tiny things..ESPECIALLY if you're like Moi, have had a Stroke, & have a good deal of Good Ol' Unca Arthur in yer hands to boot...(grin)

timmy
11-12-2012, 09:01 AM
lmao, yea i am an auto tech and big hands dont go with this little stuff.

etype2
11-12-2012, 09:45 AM
This model is so prevalent on EBay, it's far easier and cheaper to get a working model on EBay. Of course I appreciate the fascination, challenge and couriosty to dig into the works of these tiny televisions. Just ask the seller the apprioate questions to verify the set is working.

I say this with the understanding that I pocess virtually no skills in television repair. :-)

AiboPet
11-12-2012, 10:03 AM
I have TWO of these to repair...but no longer wanna bother with 'em since I have a running 1020, 1030 and CT101.

I didn't even wanna bother the guy offering the 1010 schematics....or I'd try to get back into the 1010 and then have to repair the ribbon cables as well as whatever had happened to them in the first place. I do have the small sets to "wow" anyone if need be. That 1030 is actually QUITE a handsome little set...and is smaller than ALL the other Travelvision sets.

timmy
11-12-2012, 10:08 AM
but it would be a good thing to know how to fix them should they take a dump, afterall they are old and i think that whatever kind of vintage tv you may have its always a good idea to know how to fix them. and the ribbon is not all that bad to fix as mine tore in 2.

crtfool
11-12-2012, 05:14 PM
Did the diode replacement correct the horizontal, or did you replace the AN5750 too?

timmy
11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Did the diode replacement correct the horizontal, or did you replace the AN5750 too? the diode did correct the horiz, 4700kv on the crt, 500volts on the focus and did not replace the an5750. i got an5760 coming so hope this does the trick.:D

timmy
11-13-2012, 08:03 PM
I have TWO of these to repair...but no longer wanna bother with 'em since I have a running 1020, 1030 and CT101.

I didn't even wanna bother the guy offering the 1010 schematics....or I'd try to get back into the 1010 and then have to repair the ribbon cables as well as whatever had happened to them in the first place. I do have the small sets to "wow" anyone if need be. That 1030 is actually QUITE a handsome little set...and is smaller than ALL the other Travelvision sets.

what does the tr1020 use for an ac adapter, is it a 12 volt 55ma or a 6 volt because the 1010 uses a 12 volt 55ma and the tv has a regulator that regulates the voltage to 4.8 volts.

AiboPet
11-13-2012, 08:09 PM
Dunno.....ALL of the little TRs use the same one with the funny little squared off tip. I thought it was 7.5v unit....but could be entirely wrong. Almost positive it is NOT 12vdc though...or I would not have gone through the trouble to find the exact one when I needed one. If you are using a 12v one.....you are likely gonna cook the regulator. The battery pack is 4 x AA size batteries...so the set likely runs at 6v internally without looking at a schematic, so I'm still guessing the wall wart is gonna be 7.5vdc.

UPDATE:

Found one of mine specific to the set. It's part number (Panasonic) TY-AC39P

Input is AC 120V 60Hz 55mA

Output is 11.45vdc (positive tip) as measured by a Fluke meter (no load)

There is no output specs printed on the outside of it. I even found a second one that is running my 1020....same exact model and specs.

Looks like all three of the little TR series use the exact same one. I don't have the CT101 down here at home to look at (It's up at my Dad's house)

timmy
11-18-2012, 12:29 PM
well here it is i still got a line across the screen and checked all voltages and seem just about right on and still cant figure why i just have a line. replaced both horiz and verticle ics and made no difference at all. this is baffling to me finding nothing else wrong but i know there is something. caps were changed checked diodes only to fine the one, i also took off some resistors and transistors to check out of the circuit and everything checks ok. and yes these components are SMD, chips very difficult to see let alone remove and put back. did anyone who reads this post have any info as to where to go from here with this problem. it seems to be a common problem with these little sets. HELP.........

timmy
11-20-2012, 04:57 PM
well this update means i gave up on this tr 1010p, checked everything and waisted to much time. i got another one, tr1020 with the radio and it had the same line across the screen but i fixed this one and it works great. the circuit board is different and i think for the worse, anyway caps and ics were all loose all had to be resoldered and 2 breaks in the ribbon which i had to put 2 jumpers. it looks like vibration did all this from years of bumping around.

crtfool
11-20-2012, 05:08 PM
Good job with the TR-1020p. Be aware that they are almost as bad as the TR-1010p electronically. You have now officially been inducted into the "TR-1010p Kicked Our Ass Club"!

timmy
11-20-2012, 05:47 PM
Good job with the TR-1020p. Be aware that they are almost as bad as the TR-1010p electronically. You have now officially been inducted into the "TR-1010p Kicked Our Ass Club"!

LMAO, i have had my butt kicked with electronics befor and had also given up but sometimes i go back for more abuse and sometimes succeed,lol,lol but for now im waiting for a tr 1030p which is almost the same as the 1010 but newer in year and its said to work, i hope.:D the board is different from the 1010 to the 1020 alittle easier still very tight.

AiboPet
11-20-2012, 05:55 PM
LOL!!.....I been to that club TWICE now. I'll go back sometime when I need another good ass-kickin' :-P

I love the little 1030, and the one I have has not been opened yet. I saw no reason to so far. It's smaller than the rest of the little TR sets, so I'm sorta afraid to ever open it.

I have a 1020 that also just needed some soldering touched up before it would keep a full raster. Works great....but I need to find a battery cover and it's magnifier. ALL the little TR set's have different magnifiers....not interchangeable.

timmy
11-20-2012, 06:05 PM
does your 1030 work? and how good compared to the 1010 would you say it is.

crtfool
11-20-2012, 06:11 PM
The TR-1030p is electronically superior to the previous models, but it folds into a 3 sided square that is held together by a 10 pin soldered connector at the end of a very similar ribbon cable.

Sandy G
11-20-2012, 06:18 PM
Dunno.....ALL of the little TRs use the same one with the funny little squared off tip. I thought it was 7.5v unit....but could be entirely wrong. Almost positive it is NOT 12vdc though...or I would not have gone through the trouble to find the exact one when I needed one. If you are using a 12v one.....you are likely gonna cook the regulator. The battery pack is 4 x AA size batteries...so the set likely runs at 6v internally without looking at a schematic, so I'm still guessing the wall wart is gonna be 7.5vdc.

UPDATE:

Found one of mine specific to the set. It's part number (Panasonic) TY-AC39P

Input is AC 120V 60Hz 55mA

Output is 11.45vdc (positive tip) as measured by a Fluke meter (no load)

There is no output specs printed on the outside of it. I even found a second one that is running my 1020....same exact model and specs.

Looks like all three of the little TR series use the exact same one. I don't have the CT101 down here at home to look at (It's up at my Dad's house)

No, I'm pretty sure my CT-101 uses a 12VDC Wall Wart, & has a conventional round tip... I've got a couple of those WEIRD Sony FD-535 "Not Trinitron" 5" color sets w/FM radios, & they use 13.8 VDC wall warts-Try findin' one of THOSE...

timmy
11-20-2012, 06:25 PM
The TR-1030p is electronically superior to the previous models, but it folds into a 3 sided square that is held together by a 10 pin soldered connector at the end of a very similar ribbon cable.

interesting, but i thought you never took the 1030 apart. or were you talking about the 1020, all these 10s , whew, confusing,lol.:scratch2:

crtfool
11-20-2012, 06:28 PM
Aibo said that he never took the TR-1030p apart. I have taken every model in the Travelvision line apart, and I have several parts units.

timmy
11-20-2012, 07:07 PM
oh ok i got a brain fart.....lol...... well whats the deal with the 1010 and the loss of verticle, no one seems to know and 8 out of 10 have the same problem.

crtfool
11-20-2012, 07:12 PM
Have you checked the Yoke to see if any of the coils are open? Loss of vertical is usually a bad cap, or an open trace on the circuit board - are you sure that all the caps are good?

timmy
11-20-2012, 07:19 PM
i changed all the electrolytic caps and did check the yoke.

crtfool
11-20-2012, 07:26 PM
Well, the next thing would be to use a scope and check waveforms, but you probably do not have 1, and neither do I - I do not do the kind of extensive work on electronics that require the expense of purchasing a scope.

timmy
11-20-2012, 07:46 PM
ok well ill put it aside for now then. all i can think of what might be left thats wrong is a poly cap, tantaum cap.

crtfool
11-20-2012, 07:50 PM
If I remember correctly, the SAMS manuals have a troubleshooting section for each symptom - does it give a list of parts to check for loss of vertical?

timmy
11-20-2012, 07:56 PM
no the schematic i have dont list anything for troubleshooting and its not sams thats probably why. i forgot to add that there is no voltage at a 200v poly cap,either side, nor is there any voltage at the damper diode which there should be it has hv but who knows.

AiboPet
11-20-2012, 08:09 PM
Yes Sandy....I did say all the "TR" sets are the same wall wart. The CT-101 is not a TR set.

I can't really speak for the TR sets that are not 1010,1020 or 1030 though. I don't have the very first one from like the early 70's (TR-001).....or the first of the 80's sets (TR-1000). I've never seen a chance to get these two sets...but at this point, I'm not sure I want those now after the horror of trying (and making MUCH worse) to fix two 1010s now.

I'm the one who never took the 1030 to bits. This set showed up FLAWLESS and works that way too.....so no reason for me to give it my REVERSE Midas touch. I love working on all the small sets, but no longer EVER look forward to taking one of these apart again.

I was lucky to fix my FIRST little 1010 just once when it lost vertical (would work when you squeezed the case). It was just crappy soldering.

I fixed the 1020 when it first showed up. It ALSO had dodgy traces.

I do remember that I saw a big electrolytic in the 1010 that was all on it's own, and did replace it, but really for no other reason than it was easy and I had no idea what that cap does all on it's own like that.

crtfool
11-20-2012, 08:11 PM
Well, I am out of ideas. Try doing point to point continuity on each trace to see if there is an open circuit somewhere. Good luck.

crtfool
11-20-2012, 08:15 PM
The Tr-1000p uses the same AC adapter as all the other models, except that it has an adjustable switch on it for 110v / 220v for worldwide use. The CT-101 uses a standard barrel connector 12v output. The TR-001 uses a completely different adapter with a special 3-pin connector.

timmy
11-20-2012, 08:21 PM
i did attempt point to point continuity but proved to be extremly difficult due to both sides have traces and they will change over from front to back. but i could go back at some point and try again. oh and the white paint on the board has traces under that and cant see which way they go. boy they are still getting even how many years later,lol,lol.......

jhalphen
11-21-2012, 02:32 AM
Hi Timmy,

Here is the zoomed section of the TR-1010P's vertical scan section.

From reading the posts above, i understand that you don't have an oscilloscope, correct?

Have a friend, a contact at work or a neighbour that would have a scope?

Personally, i would try the following method:
V Scan energy is at 60 Hz. As power is needed to deflect the beam it generates a quite powerful magnetic field.

Do you have a telephone amplifier with a pickup coil?
do you have a small audio Amp, i'm thinking of a 1W battery powered amp with a small speaker?

My idea is to use a makeshift system with a pickup coil and an amplifier, placing the coil next to the TR-1010's deflection yoke and listening for a strong 60 cycle hum.

As the CRT shows a flat line (no V Scan) i suspect that you will not pickup a strong 60 Hz signal, but the gadget can help you while poking around in the V section, maybe you have a cut trace, bad deflection yoke connector, dry solder joint, or even a bad new capacitor.

Just a Rube Goldberg device, but it's helped me out frequently.

I used a tel pickup coil + a small cased Amp i found at Radio Shack (years ago).

Good luck!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

timmy
11-21-2012, 06:36 AM
hello jhalphen, now thats interesting and 60hz i didnt know. this seems like such a common problem with these tvs and im surprised that no where on the web someone found out what it is. solder joints , traces, caps, hmm i dont know. i recapped the deflection board and got the same result, line across the screen. its so frustrating to know what its lacking, the verticle signal, but cannot find it. it could be one of those smd chip capacitors on the bottom but if i knew which one thats responsible for the signal timing i would go and change it and hope for the best.

jhalphen
11-21-2012, 07:17 AM
Hi Timmy,

I pulled from the Web the spec sheet on the AN5760, the Vertical processor & output chip of the TR-1010P. It's clipped to this message.

im surprised that no where on the web someone found out what it is. solder joints , traces, caps, hmm i dont know. i recapped the deflection board and got the same result, line across the scree

Alas, there is a standard fault with a given model of TV. There are a fair amount of elecrolytic caps - i counted 7 in the Panasonic application note and as you said you had changed all the electrolytics, i would carefully go over each and check that one was not mounted with the + & - terminals reversed. In tight circuitry or when tired, even trained technicians sometimes make mistakes.

Of course a new Cap mais sometimes be bad but if yours are from a reputable brand, Panasonic, Nichicon,... this very seldom happens.

If you like repairing electronics, an ESR capacitor checker would be a valuable tool to have. ESR stands for Effective Series Resistance. The great advantage of this type of checker is that you can check electrolytic Caps in-circuit without desoldering them - a phenomenal time-saver when troubleshooting.

With an ESR meter you can check electrolytics from 1F to the sky.
Under 1 & non-electrolytic caps, the meter is useless.

to buy one, search a reputable test gear dealer such as this one:
http://www.tequipment.net/index.html

Other members may suggest a brand/model they like.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

timmy
11-21-2012, 07:39 AM
Hi Timmy,

I pulled from the Web the spec sheet on the AN5760, the Vertical processor & output chip of the TR-1010P. It's clipped to this message.



Alas, there is a standard fault with a given model of TV. There are a fair amount of elecrolytic caps - i counted 7 in the Panasonic application note and as you said you had changed all the electrolytics, i would carefully go over each and check that one was not mounted with the + & - terminals reversed. In tight circuitry or when tired, even trained technicians sometimes make mistakes.

Of course a new Cap mais sometimes be bad but if yours are from a reputable brand, Panasonic, Nichicon,... this very seldom happens.

If you like repairing electronics, an ESR capacitor checker would be a valuable tool to have. ESR stands for Effective Series Resistance. The great advantage of this type of checker is that you can check electrolytic Caps in-circuit without desoldering them - a phenomenal time-saver when troubleshooting.

With an ESR meter you can check electrolytics from 1F to the sky.
Under 1 & non-electrolytic caps, the meter is useless.

to buy one, search a reputable test gear dealer such as this one:
http://www.tequipment.net/index.html

Other members may suggest a brand/model they like.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

well that is one thing i did do and check the polarity, the neg of the caps is the half circle on the board so i ruled that out thank i didnt make a mistake. its just that what i did and checked seems not to be whats wrong and that im overlooking what it really is. but yes its really tight in there to work on. i did change both ics vert and horiz.

jhalphen
11-23-2012, 06:24 AM
Hi Timmy,

Don't get discouraged! i discussed with a fellow VK member & friend about your TR-1010 ailments and we both think that you probably have a cut trace on the printed circuit board.

Get the chassis under a really strong light, use a magnifying glass and very carefully inspect the PCB around the vertical processor IC.

When i do this, i use a paper printout of the board's trace layout + an Ohm meter with a "beep" function - it beeps if you put the 2 test leads in contact to indicate zero Ohms = perfect continuity.

I put one end of the test lead at the start of a PCB track and the other one at its end. If the trace is not cut, the meter beeps.

Good luck,

jhalphen
Paris/France

timmy
11-23-2012, 01:16 PM
Hi Timmy,

Don't get discouraged! i discussed with a fellow VK member & friend about your TR-1010 ailments and we both think that you probably have a cut trace on the printed circuit board.

Get the chassis under a really strong light, use a magnifying glass and very carefully inspect the PCB around the vertical processor IC.

When i do this, i use a paper printout of the board's trace layout + an Ohm meter with a "beep" function - it beeps if you put the 2 test leads in contact to indicate zero Ohms = perfect continuity.

I put one end of the test lead at the start of a PCB track and the other one at its end. If the trace is not cut, the meter beeps.

Good luck,

jhalphen
Paris/France well that is amazing for you to say because i just started to do just that but have not found anything yet but i will keep on it . i have a fluke dvom with the diode beep that i have been using if the trace follows to the end from start it beeps. well ill have to look for a halogen light,lol really bright and im using a magnafying glass with the small double magnafier in it. ok, ill keep you posted when i find this headache, and thanks again for the verticle scan.

jhalphen
11-23-2012, 03:45 PM
Hi Timmy,

OK, you're going to win!

Be methodical: i use a yellow felt pen to overline on the paper printout the traces already checked.

Saves your memory from remembering "did i already do this one or not"
Especially if interrupted by a phone call/doorbell ring during the process.

Keep a soldering iron handy to reflow any non-perfect - possibly suspicious solder joints at the ends of each PCB trace.

If so, reflow, then check again with the beeper for A-OK continuity.

Hang in there!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

timmy
11-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Hi Timmy,

OK, you're going to win!

Be methodical: i use a yellow felt pen to overline on the paper printout the traces already checked.

Saves your memory from remembering "did i already do this one or not"
Especially if interrupted by a phone call/doorbell ring during the process.

Keep a soldering iron handy to reflow any non-perfect - possibly suspicious solder joints at the ends of each PCB trace.

If so, reflow, then check again with the beeper for A-OK continuity.

Hang in there!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

i did notice that 2 what i think are chip caps off the vert ic have like corrosion and to fix that is very hard because they are hard to hold and maybe this is where the problem is and i dont know if this corrosion could kill the connection but ill have to try and get them off and resolder. there are no caps that leaked near where these 2 @$#%%$%^4 tv,lol,lol... could it be possible that one of these chip caps are bad if its one responsible for the verticle timing. i dont know if smd components chips are known to go bad even if they have many years on them.

timmy
11-29-2012, 08:59 PM
well i am trying but i am just about out of options i cannot find whats wrong with this set. and you see these little sets with the same problem and i just cant believe i cannot find any repair info on this horizontal line problem with these tvs on the web , not one thing comes up in regard to the tr101p. there must be someone out there that has mastered this nasty little problem. its strange when i got it it had no hv nothing on screen but found a bad rectifier for the focus voltage and replaced it and got full hv and focus voltage but was left with the line across the screen. checked the schematic and the loss of this voltage would not have affected any other part of the circuit. so its still a mystery.

colorfixer
11-30-2012, 03:03 AM
Did any of the old caps have signs of leakage? I restored my JVC P100 and it was littered with bad caps, and a number of them leaked, taking traces with them. I've seen Panasonic capacitors leak, especially in audio gear such as their micro series components.

Take your time, go through each trace on the schematic and if you have a board layout as well, using a highlighter and you'll likely find the issue sooner than later.

Good luck

timmy
11-30-2012, 06:55 AM
Did any of the old caps have signs of leakage? I restored my JVC P100 and it was littered with bad caps, and a number of them leaked, taking traces with them. I've seen Panasonic capacitors leak, especially in audio gear such as their micro series components.

Take your time, go through each trace on the schematic and if you have a board layout as well, using a highlighter and you'll likely find the issue sooner than later.

Good lucki went over the traces and it could very well be a flyback but really dont know for sure. as far as caps leaking, no it dont appear any leaked besides i changed all the caps on the deflection board.

timmy
12-02-2012, 01:09 PM
well it looks like this tv is for parts because i done everything possible to find whats wrong. i think the fly may be bad or a part of it inside because i checked every resistor both chip and threw hole and whats amazing to me is every resistor was right on even the chip resistors. the damper diode only has b+ voltage on it, 4.8 volts and that dont seem right. so for now is going on the side because im out of things to check.

jhalphen
12-03-2012, 08:24 AM
Hi Timmy,

i think the fly may be bad or a part of it inside

No, the flyback is good: you have EHT and a bright trace across the screen, therefore it works.

could it be possible that one of these chip caps are bad if its one responsible for the vertical timing. i dont know if SMD components chips are known to go bad even if they have many years on them.

SMD resistors and capacitors can go bad just like any other component.

i did notice that 2 what i think are chip caps off the vert ic have like corrosion and to fix that is very hard because they are hard to hold and maybe this is where the problem is and i dont know if this corrosion could kill the connection but i'll have to try and get them off and resolder.

OK:
1) reflow solder pads on these corrosion-suspect SMDs
2) check trace continuity with Ohm Meter afterwards.

Show us some closeup photos of the suspected corrosion contacts.

If you choose to remove these SMD caps, do you have a capacitance meter?

Check the vertical winding on the deflection yoke. You have the service manual, locate the pins going to the V coils & check for continuity with an Ohm Meter.

On the vertical deflection IC: use your digital VOM to measure voltages on each of the IC's pins vs ground. Compare with the pin-per-pin voltages on the Panasonic service manual.

If really fed-up: send the TV to Andy in TX, he will fix it for you.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

timmy
12-03-2012, 09:51 AM
OK:
1) reflow solder pads on these corrosion-suspect SMDs
2) check trace continuity with Ohm Meter afterwards.hi, ok heres where im at i did check the ohms on the yoke even though the schematic dont say what it should be it looks ok the ohms are lower then the other coil which i know they vary between vert and horiz coils. and the corroded look to one of the chip caps i did reflow and did check continuity everywhere. i actually checked every resistor and all check very good and i did remove a few key chip caps and subbed one at a time to see if anything changes on the screen, but nothing i do is making and progress. i notice using my dvom on diode check that one lead on ground and i touch the other to pin 4 on the vert ic the screen jumps like it wants to fill the screen. so it seems to me there is a problem in the sawtooth gen that creates the oscilliations to make the vert work but i dont know where else to go from here. it does seem like a timing cap of sorts that may be bad but i just dont know. it is very difficult to really take these chip caps off and sub another really unless i have the exact one to put back in, and leave in and call that cap changed being the right one. all voltages on both ics are where they should be with the exception of pin 6 on the vert ic which is 4.8 volts and should be 2 volts maybe because the vert is not under load, working... also what puzzles me is the line across the screen is not completly across, it starts on one side and stops about an 1/8 befor the other side. i dont know if using ceramic disc caps as subs would be the same as the chip caps that are in there, but i tried. but if it must be the chip type well then maybe ill have to try and get all these chip caps that are in question.

Check the vertical winding on the deflection yoke. You have the service manual, locate the pins going to the V coils & check for continuity with an Ohm Meter....

On the vertical deflection IC: use your digital VOM to measure voltages on each of the IC's pins vs ground. Compare with the pin-per-pin voltages on the Panasonic service manual.

If really fed-up: send the TV to Andy in TX, he will fix it for you.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France[/QUOTE]

crtfool
12-03-2012, 06:50 PM
I would like to just give Timmy a lot of credit for putting all this time and energy in trying to get this TV working again - most of us would have given up with less than 1/4 the effort that he put in - I myself gave up after the ribbon cable tore. Even though these TV's look simple, they are actually very complex and they are very poorly built from a servicing and component quality level standpoint.

We have all had pieces of equipment that were so challenging that the basic "IT or ME" instinct kicks in and forces us to NOT want to let it beat us.

At this point, I suggest that you purchase another cheap TR-1010p with similar problems and apply all that you have learned to make a fresh start.

Good luck.

PS:

Andy is excellent, and I am sure that he could fix it, but these TVs are a dime a dozen, and the main purpose is for Timmy to have the satisfaction and pride of repairing it himself.

Sandy G
12-03-2012, 07:20 PM
Yeah, unless its the 1969-70 version, or the 1984 Color version, these l'il guys ain't exactly rare...And if one or 2 "Give Their Lives" for the purpose of education, well, its not ALL lost then...Another thing, these ARE getting on towards 30 yrs old...I doubt if they were designed to last that long...Even the color version I don't think was sposed to live this long, if you go by the flimsiness of its cabinet... At least Sony made their KV-4000 series w/a metal cabinet, & they just SEEM a lot more robust...

timmy
12-04-2012, 06:56 AM
I would like to just give Timmy a lot of credit for putting all this time and energy in trying to get this TV working again - most of us would have given up with less than 1/4 the effort that he put in - I myself gave up after the ribbon cable tore. Even though these TV's look simple, they are actually very complex and they are very poorly built from a servicing and component quality level standpoint.

We have all had pieces of equipment that were so challenging that the basic "IT or ME" instinct kicks in and forces us to NOT want to let it beat us.

At this point, I suggest that you purchase another cheap TR-1010p with similar problems and apply all that you have learned to make a fresh start.

Good luck.

PS:

Andy is excellent, and I am sure that he could fix it, but these TVs are a dime a dozen, and the main purpose is for Timmy to have the satisfaction and pride of repairing it himself.

i did get another 1010 and may try a fresh start. i also have 2 1020 that had problems with the verticle and were both in the ribbon and they work great now after putting jumpers in the ribbon.

compucat
12-04-2012, 07:48 AM
I wanted one of those Panasonics for a long time but hearing about all the problems maybe I will pass. I do have the Sony Watchman sets and they seem to be holding up well. Even the ribon cables seem to be strong. I can definitely recommend the FD-20. It is a great performing nicely built set.

jhalphen
12-04-2012, 08:10 AM
Hi Timmy,

i notice using my D-VOM on diode check that one lead on ground and i touch the other to pin 4 on the vert ic the screen jumps like it wants to fill the screen. so it seems to me there is a problem in the sawtooth gen that creates the oscilation

I think you're close: have a real hard look at the 1000pf cap between pins 4 and 5 of the AN5760, maybe it's a trivial as a bad GND on pin 5

To help: closeups of the block diagram + application note schematic of the AN5760.

Last document is a high-zoom of the TR-1010P's schematic showing the AN5760.

all voltages on both ics are where they should be with the exception of pin 6 on the vert ic which is 4.8 volts and should be 2 volts maybe because the vert is not under load, working..

Timmy, i don't know what the DC voltage on pin 6 should be but it is the output of the V amp power section driving the deflection coils and the Pana manual specifies 10V peak-to-peak. A VOM reading is meaningless here, the only way to measure this is to see the sawtooth on a Scope (borrow one?)

Hope this helps...

Hi Sandy:
My experience on many of the Panasonic TR-series 1.5" micro-TVs:
TR-1030/1031 always work - built in the second half of the 80s

TR-1010/TR-1020 - before 1984 - a lot of failures, mainly V Scan, no sound, dead or very unsensitive tuners.

Exceptions: TR-1000 nearly always work - better caps!
TR-001, same thing - 1972!

CT-101 shoddy plastics: look at them, they break!
Not really Panny's fault but the people who made the plastics. When new in 1984-1987 they weren't brittle.

Just my 2 Cents....

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

compucat
12-04-2012, 12:11 PM
Why is the circuitry on these handheld sets so complex? One would think that given the small size, simpler designs would be easier to build and service plus be more reliable.

crtfool
12-04-2012, 03:49 PM
Why is the circuitry on these handheld sets so complex? One would think that given the small size, simpler designs would be easier to build and service plus be more reliable.

These were designed and built in the 1980's when SMD components were just getting started - they really were a marvel of engineering, compactness and even simplicity compared to what was previously available. By the time that the TR-1030p series came out, they already reduced the amount of components considerably - and both sets did exactly the same thing. These are 30 years old - comparable technology in today's world make them look very complex. If they redesigned the same set today, it would most likely contain 1 or 2 VLSI chips and a few discreet components plus push-button switches for Power, Volume and Tuning.
.

timmy
12-04-2012, 04:09 PM
Hi Timmy,



I think you're close: have a real hard look at the 1000pf cap between pins 4 and 5 of the AN5760, maybe it's a trivial as a bad GND on pin 5

To help: closeups of the block diagram + application note schematic of the AN5760.

Last document is a high-zoom of the TR-1010P's schematic showing the AN5760.



Timmy, i don't know what the DC voltage on pin 6 should be but it is the output of the V amp power section driving the deflection coils and the Pana manual specifies 10V peak-to-peak. A VOM reading is meaningless here, the only way to measure this is to see the sawtooth on a Scope (borrow one?)

Hope this helps...

Hi Sandy:
My experience on many of the Panasonic TR-series 1.5" micro-TVs:
TR-1030/1031 always work - built in the second half of the 80s

TR-1010/TR-1020 - before 1984 - a lot of failures, mainly V Scan, no sound, dead or very unsensitive tuners.

Exceptions: TR-1000 nearly always work - better caps!
TR-001, same thing - 1972!

CT-101 shoddy plastics: look at them, they break!
Not really Panny's fault but the people who made the plastics. When new in 1984-1987 they weren't brittle.

Just my 2 Cents....

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/Francei forgot to mention when i first got this set the focus diode was bad and its a BB21 and i cant get any info for a replacement so maybe this has something to do with it. i used another diode from a b@w set but much bigger but i got it to fit . it may be wrong for this app i dont know.

timmy
12-10-2012, 08:34 AM
ok, heres what i did. i kind of put that little set in a box for another day or a parts set because i got another 1010p from ebay and this one had the same problem. this one had leaky caps and it took 2 days but it works now after changing 4 caps and placing jumper wires from trace to component. this was extremly difficult having to do this using a magnafier. i notice when the trace corrodes it kind of becomes a resistor so a jumper is then needed. but with the other set it never had any caps that leaked and didnt have to put jumpers so i really dont know to this day what is wrong so i may just hold it for parts. the difference between the 2 sets was that the one i cant seem to fix had the line across the screen but it was not to the other end but the set i fixed the line was from left to right all the way. so the fact that the set where the line didnt make it all the way to the other side kind of tells me something different was going on besides verticle sweep. so now i know 100% whats involved in fixing these and it dont seem to matter if the caps leaked or not or changing all the caps nothing i did on this worked. maybe i have to look for the 101 color this time.

crtfool
12-10-2012, 03:26 PM
I really do not know what went wrong with your first 1010p, but as you can see, a recap and trace repair is what usually fixes these sets. I know that you got good results with only changing the 4 leaky caps, but all the other caps are of the same quality - and with continued use of the TV, they will also fail - they should be replaced with high reliability caps.

If you plan on getting more involved in repairing electronics, you should buy an ESR meter - a decent 1 will cost about $100, but it is well worth it - it will save you a lot of time and aggravation and guess work when it comes to dealing with electrolytic caps.

Either way, GOOD JOB!

timmy
12-18-2012, 10:42 AM
:scratch2:ok heres the deal on the original tr1010p that i kind of given up on. i learned alot from the 2nd 1010 that i got and fixed and it seems like i missed alot because for some reason when i recapped the the first one i failed to look close at the traces both top and bottom of the board. so now im back on it and of course i found 3 traces that were corroded that i never seen on the top side of the board. so i put jumpers in and now im waiting for another verticle ic because i shorted the one in it. what i learned on the second one was , duh, check the top of the board because i started by taking the back off and went very slow and where ever the solder was discolored i checked the top and bottom and repaired these places and it was fine. the only thing with this set was i could not get the height right and it could have been the height pot resistance was out somewhat but i was able to place a resistor across the verticle coil on the yoke to correct this but i then had just alittle bit missing on the top of the screen so i placed a resistor from one side of the vert yoke coil to ground and now a perfect full screen. i could have pulled the chassis out again to check the height pot but these chassis dont like to be taken in and out as the ribbon is very fragile and besides i didnt have to take anything apart to put these resistors in when i was done i just had to put the back on, nothing else disturbed. and the height control works the way it should as well. so ill see what happens after putting the vert ic in and hope i get verticle sweep this time.:D

MickM
01-07-2013, 01:10 PM
Hi;
after reading this thread I went looking for a set.
I found a TR-1030P.
Where can I find info on this?
Are schematics/manuals available?

Thanks
Mick M.

timmy
01-08-2013, 12:28 PM
i think the 1030 circuit is the same as the 1010.

timmy
01-08-2013, 12:31 PM
does anyone have any ideas about lets say any transistor b@w tvs that the set has horizontal but it dont fill the screen and it dont have a width adjustment. any ideas what part of the circuit would be at fault.

MickM
01-08-2013, 03:00 PM
Hi Timmy;
The Horizontal oscillator drives the horizontal output, which drives the yoke.
The horizontal output also drives the flyback for high voltage.

As sets age component values drift and change.
Resistors increase in value, electrolytics dry up and leak, and also decrease in value, or turn into resistors.

The output stage is a high stress circuit.
The horizontal oscillator is a tuned circuit about 15Khz.
If the oscillator frequency has drifted then the tuned circuit will not be at peak.
This will result in a narrow sweep, as well as low HV.

I would check all R's and C's for correct value and ESR.
Also the yoke could have a shorted turn, or a shorted/leaky cap across it.

To work in this area you need test equipment.
A Scope, DVM, Cap meter, ESR meter, ring tester, HV probe.
You can also lift one lead and tack a replacement part in place to test.

A yahoo search for "tv horizontal circuit":

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7mnpduxQNjUA0wNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1bTRodG1 sBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1JDRjAzOF8yM zU-/SIG=124fjv6sb/EXP=1357703017/**http%3a//www.repairfaq.org/sam/reppic/horiz-tv.pdf

Which set are you working on?
Do you have the manual/schematic?

Mick M

timmy
01-09-2013, 07:34 AM
well i checked all resistors and found to be ok and i changed all caps, electrolytics. i have the schematic and it also had corroded traces which i put jumpers. i had a problem getting verticle output but got it now so im left with some of the screen not there and i dont have video but i have sound.

MickM
01-09-2013, 04:39 PM
Hi;
when you say part of the scrennis not there could you clarify?

Is the whole picuture there but shrunk?
If the picture is offset you may have moved the magnets at the base of the crt.
The yoke should be pushed forward as far as possible.
The magnets look like ears sticking out.

A search for "deflection yoke" will show a picture.
You move the ears to center the picture.

Mick M

timmy
01-10-2013, 07:11 AM
the screen is not full about a quarter inch is missing from the left side and the magnets wont fill it, it helps but thats not the problem. hv is said to be 4500kv so i have 4kv so at this point i dont know why this is happening. i also dont have video maybe this has to do with the screen not full, beams compressed, who knows.

colorfixer
01-18-2013, 01:25 PM
Contrary to intuition, low HV actually results in a larger raster if everything else is in order.