View Full Version : New LPTV station in Cleveland


fsjonsey
11-04-2012, 12:39 AM
So, a new NTSC LPTV station just popped up on channel 6 here in Cleveland, as a test pattern with random alt-rock audio. After a little sleuthing, it turns out to be WLFM-LP, a locally run alternative radio station broadcasting on channel 6 and, well, by extension, audio on 87.7MHZ FM broadcast.

It's an interesting concept. I came across it by chance the other day while working on a B&W Sony portable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLFM-LP
http://www.877cleveland.com/

bandersen
11-04-2012, 01:44 AM
We have LPTV WLFM 87.7 in Chicago too.

The FCC wants to shut them down :(
http://chicagoradioandmedia.com/news/957-fcc-wants-lptvs-digital-in-2012-could-impact-877-wlfm-

- The FCC is looking at setting a deadline date to terminate all low powered analog stations. The date currently being considered will be on or around June 16, 2012.

Well that didn't happen. I wonder if there's a new deadline :scratch2:

jr_tech
11-04-2012, 01:59 AM
The June 2012 date may have been when the FCC stopped taking applications for new analog LPTV construction. As far as I know, the turn off date for LP analog TV (including translators) is 9/01/2015. Subject to change at the drop of a hat. :)

jr

fsjonsey
11-04-2012, 01:03 AM
We have LPTV WLFM 87.7 in Chicago too.

The FCC wants to shut them down :(
http://chicagoradioandmedia.com/news/957-fcc-wants-lptvs-digital-in-2012-could-impact-877-wlfm-



Well that didn't happen. I wonder if there's a new deadline :scratch2:

The deadline was extended to 2015. I have a feeling it will continue to be extended as more of these VHFCH6/FM87.7 Franken-FM stations become more commonplace. According to a couple of news stories I've read on the station, establishing an LPTV station on VHF channel 6 is an increasingly popular backdoor into the commercial FM band. Apparently WLFM-LP will use it's NTSC video carrier to air text-based news and community announcements, with the radio station content on the audio carrier. Unlike typical analog NTSC broadcasts, a smaller percentage of the ERP will be used for the video carrier than for the audio carrier. Even if it is a grey area backdoor into FM broadcasting, I cant complain. At least it gives me a means of testing vintage sets using an OTA NTSC signal for a few more years.

In other news, some former on air talent from the golden age of WMMS has supposedly been hired to work the station, and the studio is located in the Agora Theater, a Cleveland Rock landmark.

W3XWT
11-04-2012, 08:13 AM
I first encountered one of those Franken-FM’s back in 2003 in Anchorage, AK in the form of KZND-LP, “The End”, run by Jeremy Lansman, owner of KYES-TV. It reminded me of a cross between the old WGTB-FM and WHFS-FM of my youth in D.C. That shouldn’t be surprising since Mr. Lansman is a former associate of Lorenzo Milam, who guided many an alternative FM in days gone by. It had a good signal around Anchorage on the radio in my Suzuki Vitara. Although largely ignored in the ratings, it had some creative promotions, like a “Monday Afternoon Football Party” at the Hooters in Anchorage. Of course the title was due to the time “MNF” aired in Alaska (5 PM), with other ironies being that MNF at the time aired on competitor KIMO-13 and the Hooters was located in the same building as NBC affiliate KTUU-2. There’s also a Franken-FM in the D.C. area as WDCN-LP, which does show up respectably in the ratings. The interesting thing about these Franken-FM’s is that of course their Stereo is not the BTSC system which was approved for analog TV broadcasters back in the 80’s, but rather the GE/Zenith system used by FM broadcasters.

These stations remind me of the brief burst of fortune that major-market OTA STV operators had before construction and build-out of city and suburban CATV’s. That is, unless the 2015 deadline is extended. Or, is simply ignored by the FCC, the stations, or perhaps both,

jr_tech
11-04-2012, 03:55 PM
The interesting thing about these Franken-FM’s is that of course their Stereo is not the BTSC system which was approved for analog TV broadcasters back in the 80’s, but rather the GE/Zenith system used by FM broadcasters.


Unlike typical analog NTSC broadcasts, a smaller percentage of the ERP will be used for the video carrier than for the audio carrier.

I wonder how these stations continue to operate... they are licensed as TV stations, but operate quite "out of spec" according to the FCC requirements for a TV station. Is the FCC just "looking the other way"? :scratch2:

jr

Jeffhs
11-04-2012, 06:18 PM
How is it possible that the Cleveland LPFM and the one in Chicago can have the same call sign? :scratch2:

BTW, Cleveland's WLFM must have a very good antenna system, the antenna system it uses is on very high ground, or both. I live in Fairport Harbor, 35+ miles from the transmitter sites of all Cleveland FMs (including WLFM), and can hear the station very well on most of my FM radios. I read somewhere that the station's transmitter is only 0.25kW (250 watts) ERP or so, so it's nowhere near as strong as all the other FM stations serving the city and its environs. There is a big-band/standards FM station on 91.5 MHz, some 20 miles south of here, that also has a good signal which covers a wide area, but that's easy to explain. The station is located in Geauga County, Ohio, which is at one of the highest elevations in this part of the state. Before cable TV became popular there were reports of people getting TV reception in that area from as far as Buffalo, New York, using simple outdoor antennas, as well as the usual Cleveland stations. I'm not sure if the area's OTA DTV reception is that good, though, although it might very well be, again owing to Geauga County's exceptionally high elevation above sea level.

jr_tech
11-04-2012, 06:57 PM
How is it possible that the Cleveland LPFM and the one in Chicago can have the same call sign? :scratch2:


They don't... The Chicago area television station which carried the WLFM-LP callsign from 2006 to 2012, is now WKQX-LP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKQX-LP

jr

wa2ise
11-04-2012, 07:07 PM
I first encountered one of those Franken-FM’s back in 2003 in Anchorage, AK in the form of KZND-LP, “The End”, run by Jeremy Lansman, owner of KYES-TV....

Seems odd that someone would use that method to get on the air in that city, as I would have thought that there'd be plenty of unoccupied FM frequencies there.

There's a Franken-FM in New York City, WNYZ-LP, that I think is a Russian language station.

ctc17
11-04-2012, 07:20 PM
We have one of those that covers a good bit of los angeles thats a mexican jesus deal. Isnt this in the FM band anyway? Or is so close no one else would use it.

jr_tech
11-04-2012, 07:39 PM
Isnt this in the FM band anyway?

Nope! Channel 6 TV is 82-88 Mhz. These Franken-FMs (87.7Mhz) are operating in a grey-to-downright-illegal mode, as they are really licensed as TV stations. In some rare cases 87.9 Mhz (channel 200) may be assigned to a legitimate FM station. The FCC database lists 2 of these:

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?state=&call=&city=&arn=&serv=&vac=&freq=87.9&fre2=87.9&facid=&class=&dkt=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

jr

Penthode
11-04-2012, 09:58 PM
The FM Broadcast station's maximum frequency deviation is +/-75 kHz. Analog TV FM sound maximum frequency deviation is +/-25kHz. Hence a "Frankenstation" would sound noticably quieter than a standard FM station. That is if the licensee abided by FCC rules.

But then these stations are flaunting the rules and anything goes.

jr_tech
11-05-2012, 01:01 AM
And the audio is likely not at 87.75 Mhz, which is where it should be for a proper channel 6 TV transmission.

jr

fsjonsey
11-05-2012, 03:15 AM
And the audio is likely not at 87.75 Mhz, which is where it should be for a proper channel 6 TV transmission.

jr

From what I've read, they do broadcast the audio carrier on 87.75MHZ, but most modern IC FM tuners are able to lock onto the signal at 87.7 despite the deviation.