View Full Version : Looking for a decent digital tuner--and one with "Add Digital Channels" feature


Old1625
05-03-2012, 09:20 AM
I live in a rural deep fringe reception area, where television stations have to be picked up from all directions. I have to change antenna aim frequently when hopping from one station to the next. I need a digital tuner that is decent in performance, and has the feature where you can add more digital channels as you change antenna aim. Most of the tuners I've encountered--be they built into flat screens, DVRs or free standing--do not have that feature, and whenever the antenna is re-aimed you have to go through a scan procedure where only the channels you can now get with that particular antenna aim are programmed, and all the previously programmed channels are erased. I also find that dealers generally don't know whether or not their product will have the needed feature, and many are reluctant to open a carton to retrieve the user manual so such can be determined.

Any suggestions as to a really good tuner...?

radiotvnut
05-03-2012, 09:52 AM
My Channel Master box is the best as far as sensitivity and it has the option to either do a total rescan or an update channel scan while keeping the previously scanned channels. The Digitalstream box is a close second and has the same channel scan feature. I don't know if the CM box is still made; but, I think the DS boxes are still sold by Radio Shack.

Old1625
05-03-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm unearthing a CM-7001 ATSC receiver by CM. Is this the animal?

Jeffhs
05-03-2012, 12:31 PM
I live in a rural deep fringe reception area, where television stations have to be picked up from all directions. I have to change antenna aim frequently when hopping from one station to the next. I need a digital tuner that is decent in performance, and has the feature where you can add more digital channels as you change antenna aim. Most of the tuners I've encountered--be they built into flat screens, DVRs or free standing--do not have that feature, and whenever the antenna is re-aimed you have to go through a scan procedure where only the channels you can now get with that particular antenna aim are programmed, and all the previously programmed channels are erased. I also find that dealers generally don't know whether or not their product will have the needed feature, and many are reluctant to open a carton to retrieve the user manual so such can be determined.

Any suggestions as to a really good tuner...?

Why bother with an antenna? Get cable (if your rural area has it; it may not, if you're really out in the boondocks) and you won't have to worry about aiming your antenna or any of the other problems attendant to over-the-air DTV.

If you must use an outdoor antenna with a rotor to get any TV reception at all in your rural fringe area, and for any reason cable or satellite is not an option, I'd try to get one of the old CDE AR-22 (I think that's the brand and model) antenna rotors that can be programmed for up to five channels. The control box has five buttons mounted in the upper left corner, arranged like the pushbutton station selectors on old car radios, that can be programmed for individual stations; for example, suppose (for example) your area has channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9. You can program the buttons on the rotor control box to rotate the antenna to the correct direction for each station, so you won't have to fiddle with a control knob to point the antenna in exactly the right direction. Initial programming may take some time, but this is a one-time procedure so once the rotor control is set up for your local stations, you won't have to fiddle with precise aiming again.

I don't know if the CDE AR-22 is even available anywhere (even used) anymore, as people pretty much gave up on antennas (even in good local reception areas) years ago, going to cable or satellite. However, with DTV and its reception problems, even in what were good signal areas in the NTSC analog era, outdoor TV antennas and rotors, to say nothing of towers, are making a comeback since digital TV signals can be very difficult to receive in some areas.

mpatoray
05-03-2012, 01:04 PM
Hi,

My Zenith(LG) DTC-910 has that feature. The DTC-900 will also have the "Rescan" option although sometimes it doubles channels, which you can just go in and edit later.

No one around here ever sold the Channel Master box, i wish they did as I believe it also has an S-Video out.

Matt

ChrisW6ATV
05-03-2012, 02:35 PM
I'm unearthing a CM-7001 ATSC receiver by CM. Is this the animal?

Yes, that is it (or the CM-7000). The Zenith DTT-900 and DTT-901 (and the identical Insignia NS-DXA1 and NS-DXA1-APT) perform very well also, but I do not remember if they have the "channel add" feature.

Why bother with an antenna? Get cable (if your rural area has it; it may not, if you're really out in the boondocks) and you won't have to worry about aiming your antenna or any of the other problems attendant to over-the-air TV.
No, NO! PLEASE don't subscribe to cable TV if you can avoid it by ANY method! Just say NO! to those horrible companies and do whatever you can to receive FREE over-the-air, highest-quality TV signals. "Real" antenna-based TV watching is increasing after decades of losses to the pay-TV companies.

Old1625
05-03-2012, 04:11 PM
Many thanks for the informative responses! :thmbsp:

Where I am is Suddenly-It's-1950-Again. No cable, no cell phone, etc... For some odd reason I luckily have DSL, but many of my friends and neighbors don't.

I decided that I was damned if I would subscribe to a satellite provider again; I don't watch near enough tube to warrant the monthly expense. I have one Sony Bravia 32" that does pretty well with its tuner, and has the "add digital channels" capability, while another cheaper WalMart special Sony Bravia the same size I got later for the bedroom has the "dumbed down" version of tuner that is 1) not as sensitive, and 2) doesn't have the add feature.

IIRC the closest transmitter to me is about 40 miles away and the vast majority are 100+ miles distant. And in all directions. I use a CM parabolic UHF antenna.

I may well give the CM tuner and others mentioned here a serious look.

Thanks again! :)

mstaton
05-03-2012, 04:15 PM
Even the Insignia box I have has that feature.

Old1625
05-03-2012, 04:28 PM
Why bother with an antenna? Get cable (if your rural area has it; it may not, if you're really out in the boondocks) and you won't have to worry about aiming your antenna or any of the other problems attendant to over-the-air DTV.

If you must use an outdoor antenna with a rotor to get any TV reception at all in your rural fringe area, and for any reason cable or satellite is not an option, I'd try to get one of the old CDE AR-22 (I think that's the brand and model) antenna rotors that can be programmed for up to five channels. The control box has five buttons mounted in the upper left corner, arranged like the pushbutton station selectors on old car radios, that can be programmed for individual stations; for example, suppose (for example) your area has channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9. You can program the buttons on the rotor control box to rotate the antenna to the correct direction for each station, so you won't have to fiddle with a control knob to point the antenna in exactly the right direction. Initial programming may take some time, but this is a one-time procedure so once the rotor control is set up for your local stations, you won't have to fiddle with precise aiming again.

I don't know if the CDE AR-22 is even available anywhere (even used) anymore, as people pretty much gave up on antennas (even in good local reception areas) years ago, going to cable or satellite. However, with DTV and its reception problems, even in what were good signal areas in the NTSC analog era, outdoor TV antennas and rotors, to say nothing of towers, are making a comeback since digital TV signals can be very difficult to receive in some areas.You're right indeed about difficulty in some areas; the multipath signals that result in "ghosting" in the analogue days are instant death to digital TV--even in minor amounts as I've found.

BTW I'm with you on old Zenith radios; I have a 7H820 that has both the FM 45 and 100 bands. :thmbsp: I've had similar models over the years--each with unique features such as AFC and phono input and such. The first one I found was at the town dump back in '76. All I had to do to it was plug it in and enjoy.

DavGoodlin
05-04-2012, 08:06 AM
The CM7000 is the best one because you can update each time you move the antenna and it will not overwrite RF channels with Virtual numbers. The only downside is that you can only tune-in a channel that has been scanned and you must use the virtual channel. I have had good luck with Zenith and Digitalstream boxes also, but there is no S-video output.

M
IIRC the closest transmitter to me is about 40 miles away and the vast majority are 100+ miles distant. And in all directions. I use a CM parabolic UHF antenna.

That CM 4251 is the best UHF antenna ever made, I have one on my shop. The CDE rotor is also the best, though I never had one. The rotor motor unit looks like a bell.

I use the Alliance U100's and U110's I have salvaged. Motors are easy to rebuild and the control boxes last forever.

Avoid the rotors by channel master, ECG, etc and other clones that are still made. They totally suck, the motors cannot handle heavy loads and control units fail and willrequire frequent syncing :thumbsdn::gigglemad

andy
05-04-2012, 10:52 AM
...

Jeffhs
05-05-2012, 11:26 AM
The Samsung SIR-TS360 is a good tuner that shows up at thrift stores a lot. It's a DirecTV box that also has an ATSC tuner. It can be used without a DirecTV subscription (just change the dish type to none). It's only negatives are lack of clear QAM, and no RF modulator.


Why was it designed not to receive clear QAM? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless this box was designed for satellite/cable standards of the '80s or early '90s, which of course are now long since obsolete. Because it doesn't receive that type of signal and may not receive standard QAM either, it will probably be useless on many cable systems since most cable signals today (except broadcast channels) are transmitted as QAM. That this box does not receive clear QAM signals means you will not see your area's broadcast signals. Because the FCC requires all broadcast TV signals to be carried on cable in the clear, this box will be next to useless for anything if it is used as an ATSC->NTSC converter, unless it has a pass-through function for broadcast stations. This box may have been designed long before there was such a thing as QAM/clear QAM; that or else these standards do not apply to satellite TV.

If the box is used as an ATSC->NTSC converter, however, the lack of clear QAM may not be an issue since broadcast signals received over an antenna are not subject to QAM-clear QAM transmission regulations. The lack of an RF modulator may be compensated for by an external modulator, such as the type used with DVD players.

ChrisW6ATV
05-05-2012, 11:10 PM
QAM is a cable-TV standard; DirecTV and other satellite services use other signal types (DVB-S is one of them). That Samsung tuner was made to allow DirecTV customers to watch HD satellite channels as well as HD over-the-air signals with an antenna. That was a common combination before the satellite companies started having HD broadcast network signals available on the satellites themselves, in the earlier days of HDTV.

Remember, ATSC is NOT QAM, and QAM is NOT satellite (DVB-S, etc.)... Each is a different method of modulating and demodulating digital-TV signals. In the ham radio world, think of AM versus FM versus SSB. All are used for voice, but each has different advantages and disadvantages depending on where the signals are going to be transmitted and received.

DavGoodlin
05-06-2012, 03:49 PM
It makes sense to know what is available at your location before you buy equipment.
Most everybody I know has basic cable and either a QAM-equipped TV or the Comcast-issued Motorola-built converter and universal remote. Analog cable has been gone now for two years!

I am very cheap, have little time to watch anything and get very good OTA signal, so ATSC it. We use a Toshiba DVD recorder that has a built-in ATSC tuner. This replaces the 1986 Panasonic stereo VCR, that was fine for analog-era time-shifted recording.

I bought a Samsung DTB-h260, an excellent ATSC and QAM set-top box, then realized its on-screen menu displays only on 720p. Again, being cheap, we only have SDTV at least with component video inputs. I gave the DTB-h260 to my wifes brother, who has a Panasonic plasma 720p AND cable/antenna.

mstaton
05-06-2012, 03:57 PM
The Samsung SIR-TS360 is a good tuner that shows up at thrift stores a lot. It's a DirecTV box that also has an ATSC tuner. It can be used without a DirecTV subscription (just change the dish type to none). It's only negatives are lack of clear QAM, and no RF modulator.

You need to have the card or you cannot disable the satellite dish antenna on those boxes. I have 2. They tend to lose channels from time to time even with a good outdoor antenna.

ChrisW6ATV
05-06-2012, 04:53 PM
You need to have the card or you cannot disable the satellite dish antenna on those boxes.
I had forgot about issues with using the DirecTV/OTA combo tuners without access cards (because I always had cards in mine). Can you put in a card long enough to change the setting(s), then remove the card? If so, you could probably borrow a card from a friend with DirecTV long enough to do so. (DirecTV boxes also have error messages about incorrect cards, but that should not be a problem just to get into the menus if I remember right.)

andy
05-06-2012, 09:29 PM
...

OvenMaster
05-06-2012, 10:39 PM
I am very cheap, have little time to watch anything and get very good OTA signal, so ATSC it. We use a Toshiba DVD recorder that has a built-in ATSC tuner. This replaces the 1986 Panasonic stereo VCR, that was fine for analog-era time-shifted recording.
Where'd you get that Toshiba? I would love to get my hands on one of those... that's exactly what I've been looking for for years.
I'm still using a Panasonic mono VHS VCR connected to my Maggotbox DTV converter box.

Jeffhs
05-06-2012, 11:30 PM
I'm still using a Panasonic mono VHS VCR connected to my Maggotbox DTV converter box.

I also have a Panasonic mono VHS VCR (model PV-4022) connected to my flat screen TV. Works just perfectly, even on DTV channels (on the cable system in my area, Time Warner, all seven Cleveland network TV stations are digital; the rest of the cable channels are analog NTSC). My VCR was purchased new in 2002, ten years ago. The digital transition doesn't seem to bother it one bit, although I use the VCR mostly to watch old tapes these days and rarely for recording. My LG Blu-ray player gets more use than the VCR, as would be expected in this age of Blu-ray DVDs and the improved picture quality afforded by today's upscaling BR players; the only thing is, I'm not sure if I'm seeing the improvement, since I am currently using only a composite video connection (not an HDMI cable) between the Blu-ray and my TV.

DavGoodlin
05-07-2012, 07:41 AM
Where'd you get that Toshiba? I would love to get my hands on one of those... that's exactly what I've been looking for for years.
I'm still using a Panasonic mono VHS VCR connected to my Maggotbox DTV converter box.

This unit is an upgrade from my DR560, it will do 1080i:yes:
http://www.amazon.com/New-DVD-Recorder-w-1080p-DR570/dp/B005JPKEUC/ref=sr_1_129?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1336393225&sr=1-129

I ordered it online from a place in Michigan

There are also VCR/DVD combos with ATSC-QAM http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMR-EZ48VP-K-1080p-Upconverting-Recorder/dp/B0014F9U6U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1336394354&sr=1-1

I inherited three maggot box STBs from my in-laws. They got the coupons and went to Mal-wart before I knew it. They have three new flats now, dishnet and an antenna. Dishnet will NOT pass along all the OTA channels, sometimes dropping one due to a dispute:nono: