At the needling of a few friends who are fellow plasma dislikers, I made this video yesterday... Excuse the sound quality (wind came up and blew into the mic), and excuse the goofiness of the narration... I've always said I'm a good TV tech; not video narrator, LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-xTJEU81eI

The set is a 2009 Maxent 50", and was junk... Please don't blast me for wanton waste; it had a bad display, plus was missing the sustain board, and had cockroaches in it.

Charles

At the needling of a few friends who are fellow plasma dislikers, I made this video yesterday... Excuse the sound quality (wind came up and blew into the mic), and excuse the goofiness of the narration... I've always said I'm a good TV tech; not video narrator, LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-xTJEU81eI

The set is a 2009 Maxent 50", and was junk... Please don't blast me for wanton waste; it had a bad display, plus was missing the sustain board, and had cockroaches in it.

Charles

Plasmas and LCD's are a waste of time and money to repair. Old CRT's are worth the trouble to save. I'm kind of glad you did that. The hype about flat-panel TV's nowadays is getting pretty ridiculous.

Nice!:thmbsp:

A cannon is another "proper" way to handle them working or not.

2 years!? Talk about bad for the environment. Ill take something full of lead that lasts 50 years any day.

Fun video Charles, however I think stuff like this just stirs the pot and invites retaliation.

I for one get tired of all the "Flat Panels suck" threads that pop up about once a month, (or week).

HD is here to stay, life is too short to keep watching Low Def for any reason other than nostalgia.

I'll continue watching Bluray Discs on my Plasma and enjoying it very much thank you.

People (I know some of you do use HDTV) can keep watching your CTCxxx if you prefer it.

I won't call you a mouth breathing Luddite if you don't call me one of the brainwashed, Kool Aid drinking Masses. :yes:

HD is great, but..
These thing were pushed as a type of must have bling on people who really couldnt afford or need them.
Most casual users dont need HD but they were the first ones to max out there credit cards so they could look cool. (their HD flatpannel is fed through the composite video port from a vcr)
The short lifespan and difficulty to repair compounds the problem 10x. Millions of good working CRT sets going into land fills and these only having a 2-4 year lifespan is an environmental mess.
It just adds to our debt enslavement disposable consumer culture.

as much as i enjoy the great pix on my 75 xl100, 82 xl100, my dimensia set and an old 77 cc2 set i have realized that it is time to move into the 21st century and get a real daily watcher - and also to retire the vcr's and vhs tapes - don't really have a large library of vhs anyway -

a question - what is the minimum screen refresh rate that you folks find acceptable for negating motion blur? 60hz to me is unwatchable - 120 is so so. anyone have a newer set with a 240hz or higher refresh rate?

a question - what is the minimum screen refresh rate that you folks find acceptable for negating motion blur? 60hz to me is unwatchable - 120 is so so. anyone have a newer set with a 240hz or higher refresh rate?

I have a 2009 Panasonic Plasma that is 600hz, however from what I read Plasma and LCD can't be compared based only on the numbers.

I'm quite happy with the set, the picture is excellent and I haven't noticed any motion blur, it's not even Panasonics top of the line set, actually one of their less expensive models, had 8000 hours on it last time I checked, bought it with 800 hours on it because it was a demo.

I don't know what improvements have happened to LCD's recently other than LED backlighting so I can't say how they perform.

A friend at work bought a Sharp? LCD/LED backlit set and he loves it, it replaced a very troublesome (and not very old) Mitsubishi DLP projector that ate bulbs and had PS problems.

Like anything I would expect the better brands to work better and last longer than something from a low priced "junk" brand (Think Westinghouse, Orion, RCA, Zenith, Funai etc).

I also have a Sony Grand Wega LCD Projector that's about 5 or 6 years old, never had a problem, not even a bulb with 10,000 hours on the clock.
Other than weak black levels that set has one of the best pictures I've ever seen.

I don't think any decent set today will be less than 240 Hz, make sure it has plenty of HDMI inputs though, at least three I would think.

Composite inputs are fine for standard DVD provided it's a Progressive Scan player which they probably all are any more.

HD is great, but..
These thing were pushed as a type of must have bling on people who really couldnt afford or need them.


Dan I have to disagree with you on this, yes some people wanted them as status symbols, just like people wanted Cel Phones at one time, or Gucci Handbags, (even Color TV used to be a Status Symbol), but truth is we needed a new Standard, NTSC was 60 years old and the resolution was never all that good, just look at an NTSC Big Screen and that becomes painfully obvious.

It was a bottleneck, like using a 486 computer in a Quad Core world. :yes:

I realize this is territory even I shouldnt step foot into but, I must agree with member ctc17 regarding the environmental impact of these throwaway units. I don't care if it can do 240Hz refresh rate and 1080, as much as can it withstand NORMAL use without giving up completely?!

And yes, it's sickening to think how many CRTs hve been tossed just in the past few years....millions, millions.

A much nicer "crunch" than I expected!

I don't really hate LCD/plasma, etc. What I hate is the crappy build quality.

do I or any one of us really need a new flat panel lcd/led/oled/plasma set - probably not.
do I like the incredible picture displayed on even the cheap wally world under $300 sets - your damn skippy I do.
am I concerned that a new set I may purchase have a short life span? not really. sorry folks for appearing to be environmentally unfriendly, but I am convinced a new set is far less toxic to the planet than my '60 Zenith Frederiksburg - which just "lost" a massive transformer - no telling really what the hell the black goo inside that beautiful walnut cabinet is.

Don't let menstart about the crap I find in these sets from the factory!!! Some of them I'm surprised passed certification !

Yes I repair quite a few LCD/plasma's. I just love how they incorperate the "bare minimum" circuity to operate knowing it will fail miserable right out of warranty.

And yes I have a CTC-11 in my bedroom. Still works! In the year 2050 the plasma will for sure be a thing of the past and none will work unless one has been restored. As a matter of fact plasmas built in 2005 are almost obsolete now!!!

The thing that really get me is why if these companies proclaim they are concerned about the environment then why would hey build a product and market it knowing it's goona fail in 4 years ending up in a landfill or dumped somewhere.

Now that's the proper way to treat a flatscreen Charles.

HD should stand for "Horribly Distorted," at least this current digital version of it anyway. The Japanese developed an analog-based high definition system back in the 1980s that did not have the compression artifacts which are so common today, and would have used CRT technology as its primary display. But put me down as one of those who believe NTSC worked very well and did not need replacing. The switch to digital TV broadcasting that was forced on the American people is just another example of excessive corporate influence within our government.

I believe the name of the Japanese analog HD system was MUSE.

Hehehehehehehehe...

HD is great, but..
These thing were pushed as a type of must have bling on people who really couldnt afford or need them.
Most casual users dont need HD but they were the first ones to max out there credit cards so they could look cool. (their HD flatpannel is fed through the composite video port from a vcr)
The short lifespan and difficulty to repair compounds the problem 10x. Millions of good working CRT sets going into land fills and these only having a 2-4 year lifespan is an environmental mess.
It just adds to our debt enslavement disposable consumer culture.

I made the decision to get a plasma set on my own, thank you. Hype or not, 1920 X 1080 is just the same resolution as is most commonly used for computer displays. When was the last time that 720/640X480 (or 800X600) was considered decent for computer graphics? That's standard def.

I have a 2009 Panasonic Plasma that is 600hz, however from what I read Plasma and LCD can't be compared based only on the numbers.

I'm quite happy with the set, the picture is excellent and I haven't noticed any motion blur, it's not even Panasonics top of the line set, actually one of their less expensive models, had 8000 hours on it last time I checked, bought it with 800 hours on it because it was a demo.


Like anything I would expect the better brands to work better and last longer than something from a low priced "junk" brand (Think Westinghouse, Orion, RCA, Zenith, Funai etc).


I don't think any decent set today will be less than 240 Hz, make sure it has plenty of HDMI inputs though, at least three I would think.

Composite inputs are fine for standard DVD provided it's a Progressive Scan player which they probably all are any more.

600Hz, or 240Hz on early models, for plasma sets is NOTHING to do with refresh rate, 95% of people get this wrong. and the advertising hype deliberately confuses the issue. Being 600Hz is an entirely fake, bogus, figure.

Unlike CRT or LCD, a plasma pixel can only be on, full brightness, or off. The perceived brightness is set by how LONG the pixel is activated. There has to be a precharge, then pulse length charge (the actual activation of the pixel) and a discharge, usually two cycles for best blacks. That's already 240 Hz for each frame. But that would cause flicker, and considerable banding. The more times the pixel is activated during each frame the better the brightness control and the less flicker. 600Hz is a high enough figure to avoid flicker but still remains within the cycle time capability of the panel. Also higher cycle rates allow for dithering: on and off pixels alternate in a small area to provide an AVERAGE light output.

In BOTH plasma sets and LCDs the "smoothness" created by new intraframe information is created in ELECTRONICS and is nothing to do with refresh rate. There is an advantage of having the refresh rate on LCDs a multiple of both film and video rate, 240hz, to provide for most smoothness for any type of action without artifacts. Plasma doesn't even need to worry about that.

One other thought as to which sets are more environmentally friendly.

40" CRT, weight 250-300 lbs, most of which is leaded glass, eventually winds up on the side of the road smashed to bits.

50" Plasma/LCD, 70-80 lbs, no Lead at all most likely, most of the rest of it is probably RoHS compliant (which probably reduces reliability somewhat).
100% recyclable.

Don't forget the fuel used to ship a 300 lb TV across the Ocean and then Truck it around the Country, you can also fit a lot more Flat Screens in the same shipping space.

Not every CRT set was top notch quality that would outlive a flat screen, in fact I would say a large majority of the sets made in the last 15 years of CRT's were low end BPC.

Hundreds of millions of sets were made in the tube powered era, 98% of them are in the landfill now, the majority went there because the died and the owners bought another tube set to replace it.

One other thought as to which sets are more environmentally friendly.

40" CRT, weight 250-300 lbs, most of which is leaded glass, eventually winds up on the side of the road smashed to bits.

50" Plasma/LCD, 70-80 lbs, no Lead at all most likely, most of the rest of it is probably RoHS compliant (which probably reduces reliability somewhat).
100% recyclable.

Don't forget the fuel used to ship a 300 lb TV across the Ocean and then Truck it around the Country, you can also fit a lot more Flat Screens in the same shipping space.

Not every CRT set was top notch quality that would outlive a flat screen, in fact I would say a large majority of the sets made in the last 15 years of CRT's were low end BPC.

Hundreds of millions of sets were made in the tube powered era, 98% of them are in the landfill now, the majority went there because the died and the owners bought another tube set to replace it.

I don't have a problem with those who truly want LCDs and plasmas and buy them. I do, however, have a problem with the fact that people who wish to buy new CRTs in 2011 cannot do so. I believe in consumer choice, problem is, we no longer have it.

Technological advances were being made to reduce the weight and bulk of CRTs, Samsung's Slimfit line of picture tube televisions being a prime example. I have often wondered how much further advancement in CRT technology could have been made if a company like Samsung had continued to make CRTs?

Large 16:9 flatscreen TVs actually take up more space in people's homes than traditional CRT sets. I believe the original movement to make these new type of televisions came not from the consumers themselves, but from the top management of TV manufacturing companies.

Technological advances were being made to reduce the weight and bulk of CRTs, Samsung's Slimfit line of picture tube televisions being a prime example. I have often wondered how much further advancement in CRT technology could have been made if a company like Samsung had continued to make CRTs?


If these reviews on Amazon are any indication, the "Slimfit" might well have illustrated the problems that can occur when a design is pushed too far... A 30" tv only 16" deep... WOW! but perhaps at the expense of geometry and convergence problems? On top of that, the 30" tv weighed in at about 130 lbs, roughly 5X as heavy as my 32" S0ny LC set.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-TX-R3080WH-Wide-SlimFit-HDTV/dp/B000B66EJO

Not affiliated with Amazon or Samsung,
jr

I don't have a problem with those who truly want LCDs and plasmas and buy them. I do, however, have a problem with the fact that people who wish to buy new CRTs in 2011 cannot do so. I believe in consumer choice, problem is, we no longer have it.

Technological advances were being made to reduce the weight and bulk of CRTs, Samsung's Slimfit line of picture tube televisions being a prime example. I have often wondered how much further advancement in CRT technology could have been made if a company like Samsung had continued to make CRTs?

Large 16:9 flatscreen TVs actually take up more space in people's homes than traditional CRT sets. I believe the original movement to make these new type of televisions came not from the consumers themselves, but from the top management of TV manufacturing companies.

There was a technology that combined aspects of plasma and CRTs, the gun was at the bottom of the tube with the beam diverted against the screen to activate the plasma cells - plasma with scanning. This was actually an attempt to make the ultimate flat CRT.

When I moved recently, the 60lb 50" plasma was MUCH easier to handle than the 138lb 30" Wega, which I ultimately gave to one of the fellows helping me move rather than have to deal with carrying it and setting it up myself in the apartment. Flat screen TVs actually take up LESS space, they can mount against the wall, thus taking up NO room space, or in my case I have the Samsung on a stand far enough away from the wall so that it can swivel, and the satellite box and audio amps are BEHIND the set, out of sight rather than taking up rack space. Likewise my IPS computer monitor is flat against the wall at the back of my desk, rather than taking up desk space as did my 22" Sony GDM. (Which I still have.)

And if by "taking up more space" one means the screen area is bigger. Yep, Bud. that's the whole idea...

Finally, getting accurate colorimetry with CRT phosphors was always tricky, especially for blue and red. Now Plasma sets can easily have PERFECT colorimetry according to Rec 709. Only in the fifites with a few sulfide picture tubes was such accurate NTSC/Rec 601 colour previously achieved. Ever afterwards it has been a race for better brightness, with orangey reds and greenish blues against hot whites. (Yes there's a slight blue error in Rec 709which can never be quite eliminated, but it's not at all noticeable.)

I can not think of a SINGLE advantage to CRT nowadays.... I won't enumerate the plasma advantages. ...The only issues are that plasma circuitry generates a lot of electronic hash, I have to turn off the set when shortwave listening, (15760Hz Scanning whine was less of a problem) and black levels are tricky: better blacks require more power in plasma sets. (higher discharge current.)

...

If people were still interested in buying CRTs, they would still make them. Electronics companies are in it for the money, so they will make what ever sells well. Of my friends and family, I can't think of anyone who would rather have a CRT TV. Most of them got rid of their working CRTs as soon as flat panels became affordable. Even professional monitors are all flat panels now, and that's a market that demands performance at any cost.

Well, it doesn't seem like they've been making a lot of money as of late - and as far as quality is concerned it's currently one big race to the bottom. There is still, in my view, a large niche market for CRTs but the electronics manufacturers don't care because everything nowadays is run completely from the top-down. But I shouldn't be too surprised by this, because at the rate things are going companies like Sony will eventually meet the same fate as RCA.

There was a technology that combined aspects of plasma and CRTs, the gun was at the bottom of the tube with the beam diverted against the screen to activate the plasma cells - plasma with scanning. This was actually an attempt to make the ultimate flat CRT.

When I moved recently, the 60lb 50" plasma was MUCH easier to handle than the 138lb 30" Wega, which I ultimately gave to one of the fellows helping me move rather than have to deal with carrying it and setting it up myself in the apartment. Flat screen TVs actually take up LESS space, they can mount against the wall, thus taking up NO room space, or in my case I have the Samsung on a stand far enough away from the wall so that it can swivel, and the satellite box and audio amps are BEHIND the set, out of sight rather than taking up rack space. Likewise my IPS computer monitor is flat against the wall at the back of my desk, rather than taking up desk space as did my 22" Sony GDM. (Which I still have.)

And if by "taking up more space" one means the screen area is bigger. Yep, Bud. that's the whole idea...

Finally, getting accurate colorimetry with CRT phosphors was always tricky, especially for blue and red. Now Plasma sets can easily have PERFECT colorimetry according to Rec 709. Only in the fifites with a few sulfide picture tubes was such accurate NTSC/Rec 601 colour previously achieved. Ever afterwards it has been a race for better brightness, with orangey reds and greenish blues against hot whites. (Yes there's a slight blue error in Rec 709which can never be quite eliminated, but it's not at all noticeable.)

I can not think of a SINGLE advantage to CRT nowadays.... I won't enumerate the plasma advantages. ...The only issues are that plasma circuitry generates a lot of electronic hash, I have to turn off the set when shortwave listening, (15760Hz Scanning whine was less of a problem) and black levels are tricky: better blacks require more power in plasma sets. (higher discharge current.)

I can, the color reproduction and contrast is better, the picture is more natural looking, there's no motion blur, and on non-widescreen CRT sets there's a lot less distortion - when I watch TV it doesn't look like everybody is four feet tall. But as I said, I have no problem with people who prefer either LCDs or plasmas. I just want to be able to have the choice of buying a new CRT if I want one. Each one of us has a different pair of eyes and, as a result, we all have differing opinions on which TVs look the best.

pros and cons either way - crt vs flat panel, lcd/led vs plasma.
no matter though i am going to treat myself to one soon - i may hate it once i get it and send it home with my 13 year old daughter - but we will see .
why so few plasma sets on the market? seems like lcd/led sets outnumber them 10:1 ?
i assume they have a greater manufacturing cost over lcd/led sets?

...

The same way there are only a few flat pannel makers now there were only a few color CRT makers in the 60's. The display device is usually the most expensive part to make of any TV, and being among the first few to make them in any quantity is an honor reserved for those who have the resources to pay for the plant, and deal with all the wacky over regulation of manufactuering.

I can, the color reproduction and contrast is better,
Colour is more accurate on plasma, and contrast will always "look" higher on a smaller screen.

the picture is more natural looking,
Plasma is a photo, CRT has scannning lines, Plasma looks more natural.

there's no motion blur,
For film Plasma has less motion artifacts than CRT, and for interlaced sources plasma sets use full frame interpolation, each field is doubled and the whole frame scanned at 120Hz, there is no loss in either resolution or detail , UNLIKE with CRT scanning.

and on non-widescreen CRT sets there's a lot less distortion
Plasma sets have NO geometrical distortion whatsoever, it's perfectly linear - unlike CRT sets that depend upon the accuracy of scanning circuits and convergence. Plasma has no registration issues, whereas it's very hard to eliminate fringing on CRT.

when I watch TV it doesn't look like everybody is four feet tall.
I'm sure you're being facetious, I KNOW you're not that uninformed. A 16:9 image will fill the screen, a 4:3 image will have bars at the side, but both are flawlessly linear. Some idiots put a standard definition picture into a widescreen set, then have the image stretched to fill the screen, causing fat people, and "believe" they're getting "high-Definition," but I know you're too smart to fall for that.

But as I said, I have no problem with people who prefer either LCDs or plasmas. I just want to be able to have the choice of buying a new CRT if I want one. Each one of us has a different pair of eyes and, as a result, we all have differing opinions on which TVs look the best.

The discussion will be moot once Organic LED hits the mainstream, they are already far exceeding CRT picture quality in every way except available screen size.

And I just don't like LCD because of reduced viewing angles, so I won't even bring them up.

Colour is more accurate on plasma, and contrast will always "look" higher on a smaller screen.


Plasma is a photo, CRT has scannning lines, Plasma looks more natural.


For film Plasma has less motion artifacts than CRT, and for interlaced sources plasma sets use full frame interpolation, each field is doubled and the whole frame scanned at 120Hz, there is no loss in either resolution or detail , UNLIKE with CRT scanning.


Plasma sets have NO geometrical distortion whatsoever, it's perfectly linear - unlike CRT sets that depend upon the accuracy of scanning circuits and convergence. Plasma has no registration issues, whereas it's very hard to eliminate fringing on CRT.


I'm sure you're being facetious, I KNOW you're not that uninformed. A 16:9 image will fill the screen, a 4:3 image will have bars at the side, but both are flawlessly linear. Some idiots put a standard definition picture into a widescreen set, then have the image stretched to fill the screen, causing fat people, and "believe" they're getting "high-Definition," but I know you're too smart to fall for that.



The discussion will be moot once Organic LED hits the mainstream, they are already far exceeding CRT picture quality in every way except available screen size.

And I just don't like LCD because of reduced viewing angles, so I won't even bring them up.

What he said. :yes:
Glad to have someone else defend HD and Flat Screens for a change.

Then of course there's the Mitsubishi LaserVue, which is I believe a DLP set using three Lasers for it's light source.

Reviews say it's stunning, so's the price though, also it's a not a true Flat Panel but rather a Projection set.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/product/L75A91

I'm watching "Can't Hardly Wait" (not the usual choice of film for this vintage movie buff, so no flames please) and I can't help realizing how ridiculous this discussion is. It's a Samsung PN50C7000, which has its flaws: Black level isn't great, and image retention of hard borders can be momentarily distracting; but it was set up with a Canon colorimeter, greyscale at 6500 Kelvin, gamma, and colorspace decoding are perfect, and I find the accuracy of the faces regarding colour and shading, the overall detail, and the naturalness of the image to be breathtaking. I also have an Ikegami broadcast monitor, and a 1957 Admiral colour TV with sulfide tube, and neither can compare with the overall image of the Samsung, and that's comparing a PREMIUM CRT monitor and early NTSC set with good reds against essentially a CHEAP and flawed plasma. Yet there is no contest.

What he said. :yes:
Glad to have someone else defend HD and Flat Screens for a change.

Then of course there's the Mitsubishi LaserVue, which is I believe a DLP set using three Lasers for it's light source.

Reviews say it's stunning, so's the price though, also it's a not a true Flat Panel but rather a Projection set.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/product/L75A91
I've seen a laser set, it's stunning. But pricing will never allow it to compete against cheaper technologies for the home market.

I suppose I should apologize to Charles for so thoroughly derailing his thread!

Charles, just to be clear, I have no problem with smashing a junk set, heck, I like smashing stuff as much as the next guy!

I was just concerned with the narrow attitude I often see here concerning new technology.

I suppose I should apologize to Charles for so thoroughly derailing his thread!

Charles, just to be clear, I have no problem with smashing a junk set, heck, I like smashing stuff as much as the next guy!

I was just concerned with the narrow attitude I often see here concerning new technology.

Yah, nothing wrong with smashing an unusable anything, as long as environmental concerns are addressed. And the cheap parts in a plasma set can't generally be used in any newer model. I myself appreciate and collect old televisoin sets (and radios); they are remarkable pieces of technology. - but I watch my Plasma for serious viewing. Nobody can claim a modern widescreen TV is a step backwards from vintage sets, but posters seem to be making that claim.

The glassmaking technology does not exist to make a 60" CRT set, at least not for less than tens of thousands of dollars and the requirement for industrial machinery to move the set around, yet large, high definition tv is now expected by television viewers and buyers. Meanwhile flat panels of 60" DON'T require reinforcing the floor, and can in fact be carried by one man.

I don't mean to get anyone here upset, but what I don't understand is why certain members of this forum, a forum dedicated to CRT enthusiasts, wish to use it to denigrate CRT technology, endlessly push for LCD and plasma, and purposely antagonize those who prefer CRTs and state why they dislike current TVs - especially when these same members also collect CRT TVs in large amounts?

Now I don't mean to go off on a rant here, but if you believe so strongly that your plasmas and LCDs are so much better, and picture tube TVs are so inferior, then why don't you all just sell or give away your CRT collections? Save the space, I'm sure your spouses and/or other household members will love you even more for doing so. You can then enjoy your new, big, supersize flatscreens in the comfort of a clutter-free home, with no more burdensome CRTs to encroach on you anymore. Then, afterwards, you can go and post on some other forum dedicated to flatscreens and the people who think they're the greatest invention since the cotton gin.

Perhaps your passionate defense of LCD and plasma technology is your inner conscience's way of telling you that it's time to part with your CRTs. There are many people throughout the United States who will be happy to acquire all of your older CRT TVs. There's eBay, Craigslist, this web site, and other venues to help all of you get rid of your bothersome older sets.

Meanwhile us bland, boring, backward, party-pooper non-conformists who live in the past and cling to our CRT televisions can go on posting here and having a good time.:banana:

End of rant.

I don't mean to get anyone here upset, but what I don't understand is why certain members of this forum, a forum dedicated to CRT enthusiasts, wish to use it to denigrate CRT technology, endlessly push for LCD and plasma, and purposely antagonize those who prefer CRTs and state why they dislike current TVs - especially when these same members also collect CRT TVs in large amounts?

Now I don't mean to go off on a rant here, but if you believe so strongly that your plasmas and LCDs are so much better, and picture tube TVs are so inferior, then why don't you all just sell or give away your CRT collections? Save the space, I'm sure your spouses and/or other household members will love you even more for doing so. You can then enjoy your new, big, supersize flatscreens in the comfort of a clutter-free home, with no more burdensome CRTs to encroach on you anymore. Then, afterwards, you can go and post on some other forum dedicated to flatscreens and the people who think they're the greatest invention since the cotton gin.

Perhaps your passionate defense of LCD and plasma technology is your inner conscience's way of telling you that it's time to part with your CRTs. There are many people throughout the United States who will be happy to acquire all of your older CRT TVs. There's eBay, Craigslist, this web site, and other venues to help all of you get rid of your bothersome older sets.

Meanwhile us bland, boring, backward, party-pooper non-conformists who live in the past and cling to our CRT televisions can go on posting here and having a good time.:banana:

End of rant.



Why does it have to be either/or? Why can not a fellow like myself enjoy his early colour sets, his GE 802, his Marconi 10", his 1951 Admiral, and yes his Sony Trinitron and Ikegami, yet watch ones plasma when the big game is on, or when one wants to see a bluray? The narrow-minded people are those who can't appreciate what BOTH CRT sets and plasma/LCD sets have to offer...and enjoy each for their virtues...

Why does it have to be either/or? Why can not a fellow like myself enjoy his early colour sets, his GE 802, his Marconi 10", his 1951 Admiral, and yes his Sony Trinitron and Ikegami, yet watch ones plasma when the big game is on, or when one wants to see a bluray? The narrow-minded people are those who can't appreciate what BOTH CRT sets and plasma/LCD sets have to offer...and enjoy each for their virtues...

Because in your mind plasmas and LCDs have better picture quality. If you want to have the best then get rid of all the rest. There's a lot of folks here and other places that would love to have your CRT stash. :yes: :D :thmbsp:

Colour is more accurate on plasma, and contrast will always "look" higher on a smaller screen.

Plasma is a photo, CRT has scannning lines, Plasma looks more natural.

First of all, not all photos look natural. For example, I have had some digital cameras, including a supposedly "top of the line" Sony Mavica that I had years ago, that put out pictures that look pretty damn awful. I have seen plasma displays, to me the picture and color just don't look right. But to each their own.

Because in your mind plasmas and LCDs have better picture quality. If you want to have the best then get rid of all the rest. There's a lot of folks here and other places that would love to have your CRT stash. :yes: :D :thmbsp:

No, LCDs don't have better picture quality than CRTs, far from it, but Plasmas, yes. No scan lines, accurate colour, and, most of all resolution and size not achievable with CRT except at enormous cost.

And you're telling me to get rid of my antique TVs because I watch the Plasma set?! An antique car collector gets rid of all of the classic cars because he drives a 2010 Hyundai to work..? One gets rid of all the family photos because one took a shot of Mama last week..? Me.. Throw out all my books because I bought a Charles Stross novel for my Kindle..? Get rid of my 78s because I listen to CDs..? Get rid of my CDs because I sometimes get a song from Itunes..? (sigh..)

And lets not get into digital photography versus film. All, ALL, (is this news?) video from the pickup chips, through processing, broadcast, and reception are now digital, get used to it.

Amd plasma sets straight from the factory look universally awful. Do you honestly think they'd be D65 out of the box? They MUST be calibrated once they're home. CRT sets were supposed to be calibrated for "pro" viewers. Remember?

I never suggested that people get rid of their family photos, that's crazy, they are a part of a family's history.

I'm not telling you to get rid of anything, but if you feel strongly that plasma is so much better than CRT then maybe your inner conscience is telling you it's time to find your old TVs a safe new home.

I for one just got tired of some people insinuating that people who buy/watch/like
HD and Flat Screens do so because they are simple minded Sheep who can't think for themselves or that they are trying to impress the neighbors.

Hmm, let me think, when was the last time I watched TV with the curtains open so the neighbors could see my TV and be impressed? Oh yes, it was never, that's when.

They probably all have big flat screens themselves so they wouldn't be all that impressed anyway.

I do not make posts every few weeks saying that CRT sets are no good and everyone should buy a flat screen so why do folks seems to feel it necessary to make regular posts bashing new sets and the people who own them.

This particular forum is called "Rectangular Tube and Solid State, last time I checked LCD and Plasma's were Solid State.

I have seen CRT sets that the color and picture didn't look right either, they must have been junk, or maybe they just weren't adjusted right.

Bottom line is this, if you just want to watch TV and aren't bothered by scan lines or how large the screen is then a standard CRT set will do the job.

If you want to watch Movies at home with a picture that approaches the experience of watching Film in a large format and the correct aspect ratio then you need something else.

...

One other thought as to which sets are more environmentally friendly.



50" Plasma/LCD, 70-80 lbs, no Lead at all most likely, most of the rest of it is probably RoHS compliant (which probably reduces reliability somewhat).
100% recyclable.



I don't know... That Maxent set was Hella heavy for a flat screen. My Sony 55" plasma 2-piece set (for collectors item purposes only) is at least 150 lbs... Maybe 180; Not sure. If anyone hung it on a wall, it better be with 2/6 birch studs with 7/16 lag bolts!!!!

I for one just got tired of some people insinuating that people who buy/watch/like
HD and Flat Screens do so because they are simple minded Sheep who can't think for themselves or that they are trying to impress the neighbors.

I admit I've been guilty of accusing some members of the general public of that... But it's based on some truth. There are some people who buy stuff to be up with the Jones', and I do laugh at those people. But I also respect when someone makes a choice to buy something because they want it, and will enjoy it. I guess my having blasted the showoff plasma buyers is a response to those same people sneering at me for for driving a Toyota that's paid for, vs. a BMW on payments, etc. My wife's cousin is one of those people I'm referring to... He has a yuppie job at an investment firm, has about 5 cents in his own account, and has a $1Mil house mortgaged to about 140% value, and two brand-new BMWs every year, and of course......................... The biggest flat screen you can get hung on the wall in every room but the broom closet. And he doesn't even like them, he admitted in private! He likes his old Mitsubishi 31" tube set for regular watching.

Charles

I could care less whether they improve the picture quality on these new sets, I'm sticking with my 1974 25EC58 Zenith daily watcher. - The only set I could see replacing it with is a Zenith I saw once (I think a '73 model with the DC chassis) also in an Avanti cabinet with the white plastic base, but with doors that slid back into the cabinet, and it was all finished wood veneer instead of painted white on the sides.

I'm waiting for the comparison video, "Plasma vs. LCD: which gets flatter!"

:tresbon:I work with modern technology every day, and I enjoy collecting and restoring my classic TVs (and other vintage technology) for the challenge, and as a way to relax. I love seeing how things used to be, and I get great satisfaction out of experiencing and preserving old technology. It's about experiencing history. If I just wanted the best CRT picture possible, I wouldn't even bother with tube sets, B/W sets, or anything made before about 1985. I would probably have a house full of Sony HD CRTs and be done with it.

I don't see why it has to be an either/or thing. I can enjoy enjoy vintage TVs without hating modern technology. Most people with classic cars only drive them on weekends because they know it's more practical to drive a modern car every day.

I do like watching an occasional old TV show on a vintage TV, and I watch the evening news on a CTC38 almost every day, but I don't for a second thing they're "better" than more modern TVs. When I want to watch a move, or modern TV show, I normally use my 1080p LCD projector, or plasma TV.

:tresbon:

I have partaken in and given advice to most of the forums on Audiokarma and Videokarma, since I collect and restore old TVs and radios, have a Thorens TD-124 and other classic turntables, collect vintage jazz 78s; I LOVE old, WORKING, technology. Yes I watch the GE802 regularly and listen to FM and play 78s on it. Also I'm a computer geek with a collection of various systems, and I'm always hangin' in the NotebookReview forums. But at the end of the day I come home and watch "Zeke and Luther" and CNNHD on my Samsung C7000. I'm not proud - or stupid..

Incidentally, (sorry for the multiple posts) because of this conversation I dragged the Ikegami into the living room. Now, this is a 1968 all-solid state Ikegami that used to be a camera control monitor at CBC. It has an original Conrac picture tube with broadcast phosphors, A VERY expensive tube once..I put it on the composite output of the Bell (satellite) PVR, and watched portions of Torchwood, some movies, MSNHD, a few other things on the box, and the colour is IDENTICAL between the Ikegami and Samsung plasma. The greens, cyans, blues and yellows are spot on, dark tinted greys are extrememly close, flesh tones are identical, the Ikegami gives SLIGHTLY more red to skin blush areas, but only when comparing side by side. This Samsung is as good a broadcast check monitor as the Ikegami. That's interesting actually because the Ikegami is supposed to be set to Rec 601, whereas the Samsung is Rec 709, which depends upon less saturated red phosphors and has a slightly narrower gamut than 601. Nevertheless, there you have it, the best CRT monitor in the business is NOT providing a richer, more accurate picture than a modern, cheap, Plasma. I wish I could take an accurate picture. I'll work on that.

And remember that in the brightness race NO consumer colour TV made since 1957 actually HAS a tube with accurate NTSC broadcast phophors. Any CRT set you choose will do much worse than this broadcast Ikegami. Skin tones will be pale - more pinkish, greens will be bluish, blues desaturated, and greys green-tinted.

Which doesn't change the opinion I always had, that the pictures on that Ikegami are just gorgeous - but it doesn't offer HD.

I work with modern technology every day, and I enjoy collecting and restoring my classic TVs (and other vintage technology) for the challenge, and as a way to relax. I love seeing how things used to be, and I get great satisfaction out of experiencing and preserving old technology. It's about experiencing history. If I just wanted the best CRT picture possible, I wouldn't even bother with tube sets, B/W sets, or anything made before about 1985. I would probably have a house full of Sony HD CRTs and be done with it.

I don't see why it has to be an either/or thing. I can enjoy enjoy vintage TVs without hating modern technology. Most people with classic cars only drive them on weekends because they know it's more practical to drive a modern car every day.

I do like watching an occasional old TV show on a vintage TV, and I watch the evening news on a CTC38 almost every day, but I don't for a second thing they're "better" than more modern TVs. When I want to watch a move, or modern TV show, I normally use my 1080p LCD projector, or plasma TV.

I agree here. I too work on flat--panels for a living, with an occasional mist. DLP thrown for good measure. I do not mind working on them, and I DO like that I can handle a 50" tv on my own most of the time, but they ARE NOT sets I would consider" desirable to "hang on to", unlike that 23" 1959 Zenith I got yesterday from CL. I have 2 "modern" tv sets I use. One is a Panasonic LCD projo, that had a dirty filter and later I replaced the bulb--as it was a bit dim( but still worked). It was free--a "shopping" find. I DID have to "flash the prom" before Christmas last year--to fix the "red spot" problem that came on some time after i got it...--but I borrowed a jig to do that. The other newer set is a 19" flat--panel that is in the kitchen, it was given to me a while back. The other 2 sets are ctc169 sets, a 52" in the family room and a 32" console I my bedroom. BOTH have been nearly trouble--free--MUCH more so than the panasonic.(but I DO like to watch HDTV such as Blue Bloods and the NEW Hawaii five O on it)

Like others--I DO enjoy getting an old tv set(usually pre-1980 and older) and getting it to work--and keeping them from being "lost forever". That Zenith I got yesterday is a console that is ALL THE WAY to the floor, and in good condition(somewhat rare for a 59 or so set, most had some kind of "legs").

I've seen a laser set, it's stunning. But pricing will never allow it to compete against cheaper technologies for the home market.


I have seen them too, we work on them. There are TWO versions--the first ones had class FOUR lasers, and the newest ones are class 2 ones I think--and look about as bright and nice as the earlier ones. They look NICE--but are not "the cat's meow" of tv's. Neither are the Sharp"quattron" sets-IMHO--they look pretty poor, compared to a nice, modulated led backlight, Samsung flat--panel set.

And I STILL think that "3-D" will be a "FAD"--just like the last 4 times it was tried over the last 60 years or so.

I agree here. I too work on flat--panels for a living, with an occasional mist. DLP thrown for good measure. I do not mind working on them, and I DO like that I can handle a 50" tv on my own most of the time, but they ARE NOT sets I would consider" desirable to "hang on to", unlike that 23" 1959 Zenith I got yesterday from CL. I have 2 "modern" tv sets I use. One is a Panasonic LCD projo, that had a dirty filter and later I replaced the bulb--as it was a bit dim( but still worked). It was free--a "shopping" find. I DID have to "flash the prom" before Christmas last year--to fix the "red spot" problem that came on some time after i got it...--but I borrowed a jig to do that. The other newer set is a 19" flat--panel that is in the kitchen, it was given to me a while back. The other 2 sets are ctc169 sets, a 52" in the family room and a 32" console I my bedroom. BOTH have been nearly trouble--free--MUCH more so than the panasonic.(but I DO like to watch HDTV such as Blue Bloods and the NEW Hawaii five O on it)

Like others--I DO enjoy getting an old tv set(usually pre-1980 and older) and getting it to work--and keeping them from being "lost forever". That Zenith I got yesterday is a console that is ALL THE WAY to the floor, and in good condition(somewhat rare for a 59 or so set, most had some kind of "legs").

Speaking of collectible TVs, let us remember a few vintage Plasma sets are sought-after, such as the Kuros, and some Sony models.

It's all moot - facts are that B&W had a much clearer picture than color.


<jk>

I'm waiting for the comparison video, "Plasma vs. LCD: which gets flatter!"

:scratch2:

It's all moot - facts are that B&W had a much clearer picture than color.


<jk>
Psychological perception.

And if we're talking actual resolution that is because PAL/NTSC colour had to use a comb filter, causing colour edge atifacts, or worse, a rollof filter, resulting in loss of resolution. This is certainly not true of digital television. 1080i "Game of Thrones" looks plenty clear to me..

I suppose I should apologize to Charles for so thoroughly derailing his thread!

Charles, just to be clear, I have no problem with smashing a junk set, heck, I like smashing stuff as much as the next guy!

I was just concerned with the narrow attitude I often see here concerning new technology.

...And I should apologize for starting a war. Not the original intent, and honestly, I didn't realize we the members had a fairly deep-rooted division between flat screen likers & dislikers. I guess it's a Ford vs. Chevy, wrestling vs. boxing, or any political thing. To be fair, I might have to demonstrate the proper handling of a late model K-Mart CRT set....

NOTE: I would NEVER do anything to hurt a collectable TV; flat or CRT, fixable or not, or DuMont or Kawasho. And I mean even one that somebody else finds collectable and I don't. Mutual collectors' respect there.

Speaking of collectible TVs, let us remember a few vintage Plasma sets are sought-after, such as the Kuros, and some Sony models.

Yes, and I'm carefully preserving a Sony 32TS1 and the 55" two-piece plasma sets as collectable TVs. That Maxent was fairly new (and cheap).


Charles

There's one more aspect tipping the hand of consumers in this -- even CRT HD sets don't have HDMI inputs. Everything from blu-ray players to cable boxes to media players is moving toward HDMI only. The copy-cops have forced its implementation so that the display path can be "verified" as not being encrypted/not copyable/eavesdropped whatever they're considering it to be.

YPrPg component outputs are QUICKLY disappearing from devices. Movie industry doesn't like them at all because of an unrealistic fear of copying.

It's all moot - facts are that B&W had a much clearer picture than color.


Actually, I was stunned when I pulled all but the Y cable out of my cable box recently. 65 inches of high def black and white looks awesome! :yes:

...

Not true, many of the later CRT HDTVs had HDMI inputs. I used to have a 30" Panasonic with HDMI, and I know a lot of Sony models had them. Early plasmas also lacked HDMI, or digital tuners.

....Yes, most high-end CRT sets; and virtually all 16:9 CRT sets, had at least DVI and many HDMI since 2000 or so. And also you can get various devices to interface DVI & HDMI to component, or even to composite. Things like DVD-recorders, home theater receiver boxes, etc., often will allow that. Also there's a company making direct adaptors from HDMI to a VHF signal modulator, but I think you have to get used on eBay, or order new from Canada.

And also correct; neither of my Sony plasma sets have HDMI inputs. DVI, component & composite only.

Charles

The real complaint here should be the lack of support from the manufacturers! Let's face it, if the parts are not available once the set is out of warranty, chances are you won't find a used one as many have high failure rates and they are all bought up. There is no support in the way of tech support unless you are a warranty station. There are no classes offered by the manufacturers (remember the Zenith and Sylvania tech meetings?). Oh well, gotta get back to work..... Rant over!

...

I certainly agree with you there. Nothing annoys me more than not being able to repair something because the parts are no longer available.

Newer sets, starting with the Motorola Quasar and Philips K11, are more trouble because they use all-in-one modules. Sets with discrete circuitry are usually repairable regardless.

I recently picked up a dead 60" Zenith (LG) plasma, manufacture date Oct 2003. Only had Video, SVideo and Component inputs for the HD. Looks mighty awesome after the power supply repair.