Not something you see everyday .... has 20BP4 jug.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-DUMONT-TV-RADIO-SET-1950-10-00-/190449533243?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c57ad413b

jr

I'm not sure about the model. Perhaps it was bar TV since the controls are hidden behind a panel.

I'd drop $10 on it for sure :yes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-DUMONT-TV-RADIO-SET-1950-10-00-/190449533243

Doh! You beat me to it ;)

Wonder if the moderator can combine the threads or something?

But anyway WOW! that is a pretty cool DuMont! :yes:

jr

That logo is huge! And the tv looks deeper than most. That is a pretty neat set.

Indeed! The 20BP4 has only a 54 degree deflection angle and is 28" long! That is about 2-1/2" longer than a 21AXP22A!

jr

Nice that it has the story behind it; can't you just picture a bunch of guys sitting around, taking a break from bowling to watch the Honeymooners or Berle? Needs to be saved.

I merged the threads, I think.

I wonder if it was used to advertise Dumont tv's and what step on the model line-up it was. looks like a real deep cabinet.

It's a Model RA-106 Club 20.

Steve

Right you are: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/dumont_la_club_20_ra_106.html

Very nice find!

Not sure I have ever seen one before. Anyone else know of another one that exists?

Very likely was used as an attraction to the bowling alley in the bar at one time.

Tom

Please, somebody save this set! I would love to have that one myself, but dont have ANY room for it.

That poor chassis. I sure hope it is fixable!

Will a TV this old work with a converter box? :scratch2: Aside from that, there could be an AC shock hazard if the TV is transformerless (even if the TV has a transformer power supply, the box may not; transformer-powered and transformerless equipment do not mix), and aside from that, if this set has anything other than a 41-MHz IF strip it probably won't work with an ATSC->NTSC box, since these are designed to be used with modern sets -- "modern" in this context meaning TVs with 41-MHz IFs. I don't see how these boxes would work with a late '40s set such as this.

Will a TV this old work with a converter box? :scratch2: Aside from that, there could be an AC shock hazard if the TV is transformerless (even if the TV has a transformer power supply, the box may not; transformer-powered and transformerless equipment do not mix), and aside from that, if this set has anything other than a 41-MHz IF strip it probably won't work with an ATSC->NTSC box, since these are designed to be used with modern sets -- "modern" in this context meaning TVs with 41-MHz IFs. I don't see how these boxes would work with a late '40s set such as this.

Huh ? Every late 40s TV should work with an ATSC->NTSC convert box. All of mine certainly do. Just use the RF out for ch 3 or 4.
The RF frequencies for channels 2-13 were standardized by then.


P.S. I tipped of M3-SRT8 about the set and he's going to go for it :thmbsp:

Please, somebody save this set! I would love to have that one myself, but dont have ANY room for it.

That poor chassis. I sure hope it is fixable!

Not to worry. I think it will be saved. Chassis looks a little rusty, but probably can be cleaned up to look and work real nice.
Bob

Yup...I'm going for it.

LJB:smoke:

Hope you get it....Will keep my fingers crossed.

I want to collect all of the early DuMont RA #s. Also, I've always wanted wanted one of the DuMont "Bar" or "Club" Telesets. I've restored a couple of DuMonts, and the RA-105B "Sussex" I did is a close cousin of the RA-106, so I shouldn't have any problems. Hope the CRT isn't dead.

...all I need now is a Bar to go with it.:smoke:

Hey Lee , count me in for the ride to pick it up.

Huh ? Every late 40s TV should work with an ATSC->NTSC convert box. All of mine certainly do. Just use the RF out for ch 3 or 4.
The RF frequencies for channels 2-13 were standardized by then.

I was wondering whether the set will work with a box because of the IF strip, not because of the tuner. If this is a late 1940s set, the video IF may be 28 MHz (which, BTW, is why so many of these early sets would pick up local amateur radio operators transmitting on ten meters) or some other oddball frequency, not 41 MHz as all sets are today. Aren't the converter boxes set by default to operate only with TVs having 41-MHz video IF strips? I don't see how a modern converter would work at all with any TV made before 1960.

I was wondering whether the set will work with a box because of the IF strip, not because of the tuner. If this is a late 1940s set, the video IF may be 28 MHz (which, BTW, is why so many of these early sets would pick up local amateur radio operators transmitting on ten meters) or some other oddball frequency, not 41 MHz as all sets are today. Wouldn't the difference in IF frequency have a bearing on whether or not a converter box will work with a given set? :scratch2:

NO! It will not make any difference at all. A DTV converter will work with any set that can be tuned Ch 3 or Ch4. The exception to this would be pre-wwII sets that have 441 horiz scan lines rather than 525.A scan converter box would also have to be used, as well, to make it work.
I have used DTV boxes on several sets with the old 21 mHz if... they work just fine!:music:

jr

Actually, no scan converter would be required for a prewar set. The horizontal controls will adjust to the 441 line signal just fine.

Actually, no scan converter would be required for a prewar set. The horizontal controls will adjust to the 441 line signal just fine.

I am not sure how to interpret that statement...are you indicating that:

1.The DTV converter box has some internal adjustments that allow it to be set to a 441 line horizontal frequency.

or:

2. The old 441 line sets have enough horizontal frequency range to allow them to be easily set to 525 line rate.

or perhaps something else?
jr

2 is correct. They have lots of range.

2 is correct. They have lots of range.

Cool! :yes:

jr

I can see this set running in its original setting... People watching the fights, or some other sports events, or maybe watching Gleason's variety shows. How Sweet It Is!!

Keeping my fingers crossed here, too. My DuMont RA113 is rallying for you, too.

Hey Lee , count me in for the ride to pick it up.

Yes, Sir, Henri. That's a Four.

Lee:smoke:

...

Yup...I'm going for it.

LJB:smoke:

Hey Lee,

Would you still drive up for it, if you don't win the auction.......


Chuck

Hey Lee,

Would you still drive up for it, if you don't win the auction.......


Chuck

For you, Chuck? Anything...

Lee:smoke:

Wow! The winning bid was $932! Wonder who got it :scratch2:

Wasn't me. I quit chasing it at $457.58.

Enough's enough...:smoke:

Don't know who got it. Very early on I had some vision of salvaging the 20BP4 from it if no one bid on it. That obviously wasn't an opportunity that arose!

I did, however, get the seller to send me the pictures so I could post them at Radiomuseum. He kindly agreed. Now there are at least some real pictures of the set where people will always be able to find them.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/dumont_la_club_20_ra_106.html

Tom

P.S.: If any other DuMont owners out there have some pictures that could be posted there with the various DuMont models, let me know and we'll arrange to get them posted.

I have a ratty, though complete RA-103C I haven't restored yet..
Want any pictures of it?
Bill Cahill

Bill,

Sure - that would be great to have pictures of. I'll send you a PM with my email address.

Tom

Wow! The winning bid was $932! Wonder who got it :scratch2:

Oh what the heck- I won it.

It's my only Dumont, I presently had a little loose funds, and I'm glad I have it, come what may.

And since it's just down the thruway from me in Syracuse, I won't have to worry about shipping costs or worse- damage.

Hope I can bring it back to life eventually. A little elbow grease should help the appearance for now.

Bob Hodge

Way to go, Bob! Hope that 20BP4 is AOK.

If that 20BP4 turns out to be bad and you are interested in rebuild... I have a 20BP4 which is bad that I want to rebuild at RACS in France. Shipping is very expensive (as is the rebuild), and pooling several of these large Pyrex tubes in a common shipment would save each person hundreds of $.

Shipping within the U.S. by FedEx Ground is very cheap. The problem is overseas shipping, and that is where we can save by pooling. So we should ship within the U.S. to one location and send combined to France by overseas freight.

I've mentioned this on many occasions, and I'm reasonably patient to wait for a plan to come together, but I don't want to wait for ever...

If that 20BP4 turns out to be bad and you are interested in rebuild... I have a 20BP4 which is bad that I want to rebuild at RACS in France. Shipping is very expensive (as is the rebuild), and pooling several of these large Pyrex tubes in a common shipment would save each person hundreds of $.

Shipping within the U.S. by FedEx Ground is very cheap. The problem is overseas shipping, and that is where we can save by pooling. So we should ship within the U.S. to one location and send combined to France by overseas freight.

I've mentioned this on many occasions, and I'm reasonably patient to wait for a plan to come together, but I don't want to wait for ever...

Thank You, John and Tom !!

And if it needs to be rebuilt, I'll keep your offer in mind! Any idea of the cost of the rebuild? Could it be rebuilt if it has gone to air?

I will have a tempered moment of rejoicing if the getters are still good.

Very Cordially Yours!!

Bob

I'm curious-with the larger crts, did they take the same gun as what went into a 10bp4, for instance? If so, did that mean the 20" tube would wear out faster as the cathode had to emit more material to cover the larger screen area?

Voltage as well as current density affect brightness, so if the larger tube is run at a higher voltage, decent brightness could be produced without increasing cathode "loading". There is a limit to this, however, especially in un-aluminized crts.

jr

RACS rebuild is somewhere in the 750 Euro range for a Pyrex 20BP4. I was hoping people would get mobilized earlier this year while the dollar was strong so that the price wouldn't be so high in dollars, but alas that didn't happen and the dollar is falling now. So that's about $900-1000 at the moment for the rebuild.

RACS does a full rebuild with new phosphor and aluminization, so there is no problem with rebuilding tubes that have gone to air.

Shipping, if you try to ship just one tube yourself, is somewhere in the $600 - $1000 range. That's why we have plenty of incentive to pool. The total shipping price will be the same, pretty much regardless of the number of tubes, since it will be an overseas surface freight shipment on a pallet. It will be cheaper if we pool our tubes and ship from the east coast or Great Lakes region, rather than the west coast.

Obviously this isn't cheap, but if you have a valuable Pyrex tube to rebuild, it's the only game in town -- or more precisely, in the world.

RACS does a full rebuild with new phosphor and aluminization, so there is no problem with rebuilding tubes that have gone to air.

Then would it be a good idea to have the 20BP4 re-built as an aluminized tube, rather than un-aluminized as the original?

jr

That's probably a matter of taste. I'll probably go with aluminized, but one could presumably have the option to choose no aluminization and bent gun for more historical authenticity.

That's probably a matter of taste. I'll probably go with aluminized, but one could presumably have the option to choose no aluminization and bent gun for more historical authenticity.

Or, you could go for aluminization and bent gun. Some other CRTs were done that way for increased brightness, such as the 12LP4C. It still required a double field magnet.

The lower cathode current might mean longer life. Especially for a larger CRT like the 20BP4. Given the expense of rebuilding one that might be desirable.

John

*** Oops! Chuck pointed out that the 20BP4 is a straight gun to begin with. ***

That's probably a matter of taste. I'll probably go with aluminized, but one could presumably have the option to choose no aluminization and bent gun for more historical authenticity.

Tom,

20BP4 is a straight gun, it's a screen burner. All of mine show ion burns on the screens.

Chuck

Mine has a big blast spot of missing phosphor in the center, so I think I never had an opportunity to notice the ion burn! :)

Aluminized sounds like the way to go.