What is the better tube a original RCA 21axp22-a or a rebuilt 21axp22-a picture tube by rca in the 50's? Which one is worth more? I have one of each and both test very good. Would a original 21axp22 make the set worth more, or dont it matter? Thanks

Naturally, the OG tube will please the purists more.

Naturally, the OG tube will please the purists more.

Even if the rebuilt 21axp22-a was done by rca?

Is a virgin still a virgin after being 'broken in'?
I'm not a purist, personally I hate that stuff, but you know how 'they' get. lol

What is the better tube a original RCA 21axp22-a or a rebuilt 21axp22-a picture tube by rca in the 50's? Which one is worth more? I have one of each and both test very good. Would a original 21axp22 make the set worth more, or dont it matter? Thanks

If you search this forum I believe much is written about these very special tubes. That would be the best way for you to figure out what to do with them or how much to sell them for. I haven't read all you wrote to be sure but your question brought me to think I should remind you... many people could use either of them if you are not going to put them in a set yourself... and PLEASE.... BE VERY CAREFUL with them they are fragile and dangerous.
Thanks for checking things out here.
John

PLEASE.... BE VERY CAREFUL with them they are fragile and dangerous.

What does it mean? Is a metan cone 21AXP22 more fragile and dangerous than an all-glass tube?

If they are both 21AXP22A, I would say it makes very little difference. I would go with the unrebuilt crt myself. It would be a very, very particular person to really make an issue of that.

There were some earlier 21AXP22 (non-A) tubes that would be more desirable, I feel, but they seem to be rare.

I'm a little more nervous handling a metal-cone crt myself. From what little details I've seen, it seems that they can be pretty nasty when they implode.

What does it mean? Is a metan cone 21AXP22 more fragile and dangerous than an all-glass tube?

Yes, they are more prone to leak or implode. The metal ultor flange is what you never want to bang into anything, ever. And like most tubes, should be stored on it's face.


oldtvsandtoy, the non- rebuilt one should go in your set and the extra one could have a happy home in my Wingate:D Poke poke.......:)

If I needed one I wouldn't care which one I got as long as it worked! :yes:

Quick confirmation needed here.

When I fixed the flyback on my CTC-5, 21AXP22A guns started to glow neon blue & red. I had assumed the tube would have been fine but now tested it and filaments light nice deep red (meaning air not a problem ? as I would expect warmer orange color with air present ?)

On B&K tester a "short" shows up (in fact a 68 k ohm leakage heater-to-blue cathode)
B&K book said in this case use an isolating filament transformer - which I did but same symptoms --- and, by the way, ZIP in the way of Emission.

So is it air ? Who rebuilds these now?

On my tube there will be nothing on the meter, then as you advance the control it will peg at full. This is the typical 'gas regulator' action which indicates a gassy tube, sorry for your loss. Join the club.

It sounds like air to me too. Besides the action miniman82 mentioned the air cools the filament so that it will be a deeper red rather than orange or yellow.

filaments light nice deep red (meaning air not a problem ? as I would expect warmer orange color with air present ?)
Sounds to me as if the tube has become gassy.:sigh:
What happens is the gas conducts heat away from the filament, and causes it to run cooler, hence the darker/dimmer red color. Now this may seem bass ackwards, but the heater is more likely to burn out when it is running this way because the resistance of the cool heater is much lower than when it is at normal operating temperature, so that it will blow out like a fuse that has excessive current running through it.
sad,
jr

Who rebuilds these now?


No one, like I said join the litany that is sad AXP owners praying for a rebuilder. :sigh:

Was it the filament or G2 that you turned up ?

Did you get the glowing light show around the guns as well ?

Rebuilding may not work if there is glass-to-metal leak ?

Might drop in an all glass roundie if mounting is not too much hassle

There's a cutoff knob on the CR-70. You're supposed to turn it till the needle sits in the cutoff area, then read emission. With a gassy tube there is no getting it to sit in the cutoff region, because as soon as it reaches a certain point it will go right to full conduction and peg the needle. That's the gas regulator action I was talking about- full on or full off is all you get. Yes, my tube had a purple neck glow that s typical of gas.

This is what it looks like on a 15GP22:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/images/PURPLE-GLOW-1.jpg

It's not that glass to metal is a problem, there are NO MORE tube rebuilders in the USA. Until ETF gets their stuff up and running, we're all sitting on a pile of useless tubes.

Yes, that's the 'Light-show' all right. I only noticed it after clearing flyback problem from chassis (after recapping) which restored B/Boost, Focus, HV -- but didn't see this glowing with CRT tester.

This CRT won't even achieve "cutoff" set up (on B&K tester) or "Gun Balance" (on Sencore tester) so no chance of emission - tho I didn't crank up filament beyond 6.3v(taking it easy considering gun assembly may be suitable to be reused in rebuild).

Now that chassis is done , will look at using a 21" Rauland or Zenith glass tubes that I have (not fully original I know) and store the AXP in hope of future plant operation.

There'll be a lot of business waiting for an operational CRT plant.

plant operation.
There'll be a lot of business waiting for an operational CRT plant.

Once they’ve done a few dozen (?) of catch up tubes, they'll likely be setting there wondering where the next paycheck is coming from. At least that's my opinion of the situation. It's going to take one very charitable individual to do this as a service to us TV restoration hobbyists.

Kevin

Was it the filament or G2 that you turned up ?

Did you get the glowing light show around the guns as well ?

Rebuilding may not work if there is glass-to-metal leak ?

Might drop in an all glass roundie if mounting is not too much hassle

I don't remember local rebuilders offering re-built 21AXP22's. They said the mortality rate was too high. They didn't even like doing metal B&W CRT's.

Now here's a GP22 I'm testing, gives good emission but has blue spot in gun under test (only one gun connected & tested at a time). Filament color a bit warm ? (camera may exagerate this)

Not too clear on picture but the three getter patches are approx 1" x .5" (diminished from factory size ?)

What pictures do you think this would make ? Safe to operate ?

Like most 1st generation tubes, probably had low actual Gun operation hours.

I'm going to ask a stupid question here...

When a tube goes gassy like that, does it have to be rebuilt? What prevents you from heating up the nipple under the tube cap, attaching a new piece of glass, re applying the vacuum, and resealing it? From my view it seems like a lot of these tubes have very, very slow leaks, which makes me wonder how hard it would be to periodically "top up" the vacuum.

-J

The GP22 looks good to me, though the only real test is running it with a chassis. There's no risk involved, either you'll get a raster or a purple neck. What you need is high voltage to check for ionization, I ran my AXP on a CTC-9 chassis because the 4 chassis was still a long way off from being done.

Since you brought it up though, I do see a faint glow between the G1/G2 elements of a good tube under test so maybe it is normal. It's a different kind of glow though, the kind of color you see from beam tetrodes in operation- a more bluish hue.

I'm going to ask a stupid question here...

When a tube goes gassy like that, does it have to be rebuilt? What prevents you from heating up the nipple under the tube cap, attaching a new piece of glass, re applying the vacuum, and resealing it? From my view it seems like a lot of these tubes have very, very slow leaks, which makes me wonder how hard it would be to periodically "top up" the vacuum.

-J

A lot of gas will have gotten adsorbed (that't correct with the D) in the
electrode surfaces, and even if you stop the leaking process, continued
operation will keep releasing gas inside the tube, and the getters (already
weakened by the initial leak) will not be able to cope with all that gas.
When the tube is rebuilt, it is heated while being pumped out, and
this is done before the new getter is flashed, so that much of the
adsorbed gas is removed, and the (new) getter can do its job after the
tube is sealed. Regards.

I once heard of a high vacuum CRT that had a pump on it, but I think it was only for demonstrations.

Here's an old one with a pump:

www.earlytelevision.org/prewar_crts.html#pump

The GP22 looks good to me, though the only real test is running it with a chassis.

That would be great if this can make pictures ! What are the present sizes of the getters on your GP22 ?

On one of my 15GP22s, the getter is basically faded to invisibility. Yet it tests strong on a CR70 and looks fine in the TV. As miniman82 sez, the TV is the best tester of all (and the only one I really care about).

Phil Nelson

These positive impressions are hopeful; now onward with the chassis Re-Cap !