The contenders: Marconi, Link, Pye, EMI, others?

In the sixties & seventies the prolific British camera manufacturers did amazing things with vidicons: Which camera outshone them all ?

Those Sit-coms of the late 60's & 70's sure had some sparkle (who cares about the occasional 'comet-tail' or Philips' ACT, these cameras looked great)

But which one had the edge ?

Your two cents worth ?

Didn't BBC use mostly Link ?

The 4 plumbicon tube EMI 2001 camera introduced in 1966/67 was a very popular choice of camera in Britain the engineers apparently loved this camera. The EMI 2001 was used well into the early 1990s on some programs, one most notably Eastenders which didn't retire the camera till 1991.

Here's an EMI 2001 training video demonstration from 1975 on YouTube in 2 parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGvO29NQ8xs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIW-EIq4qqo

The bloke conducting the demonstration states that the EMI 2001 is the engineer's camera.

So I dare say EMI 2001 would of probably been the best British camera.

I don't think PYE made any colour cameras apart from the experimental one in the 50s as there is none listed on the TV Camera Museum site:
http://www.tvcameramuseum.org/pye/pye_list.htm

I'm fast becoming a fan of the EMI 2001 - a true classic by the looks of it with four big 30mm vidicons !

The Camera Museum notes admit it had an edge on the later (also excellent) 3-tube 2005 as regarding flesh tones.

A parallel design execution to the RCA TK-42 but, using an image orthicon, the '42 would have had quite a different picture character.

Unfortunately both the '42 and 2001/2005 seemed to have had low production numbers and little export action from their respective countries. (must've been pricey !)

From what I've seen of TK-42 footage eg Alic Cooper on Tubeworks 1971 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRHFIVJtqpc and Johnny Winter on Tubeworks 1970 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SeLISb0xyg , having an image orthicon tube as the luminance channel you get lots of haloing on the highlighting like you would on a standard B&W IO camera, apparently TK-42s were deemed as inferior to the TK-41 due to jerky zooming and grainy pictures and a few other design flaws which is why NBC hung onto their 41s till the 44s came in. From those 2 examples of TK-42 footage it looks like the 42s gave TK-44 style pastel pictures with TK-41 style purple halos on the highlights.

In the sixties & seventies the prolific British camera manufacturers did amazing things with vidicons: Which camera outshone them all ?

Plumbicons, not vidicons. A Philips invention that turned photoconductive tubes from mediocre to excellent. EEV made similar tubes called Leddicons.

BTW, this question could almost start a war. Supporters of EMI and Marconi can be very partisan.

Plumbicons, not vidicons. A Philips invention that turned photoconductive tubes from mediocre to excellent. EEV made similar tubes called Leddicons.
Apparently, the 2001 was marketed under the Thomson name in France with vidicon instead of Plumbicon or Leddicon tubes. There was an attempt to break the 2001 in the USA via IVC, as the IVC/EMI 2001-B (4-tube) or 2001-C (3-tube), but from what I could tell there were almost no takers.

BTW, this question could almost start a war. Supporters of EMI and Marconi can be very partisan.
For political reasons (read: please the BBC), EMI cameras' international distribution was very limited, if at all - unlike Marconi, whose Mark VII color cameras were marketed around the world, and more specifically in use at several U.S. TV stations (the cameras were marketed via Ampex in the States). Three of the five CBS O&O's (in Chicago, St. Louis and Los Angeles) used the Mark VII's starting in 1966. A few public TV stations also used the Mark VII's, as did WFLD Channel 32 in Chicago beginning in 1967, and WNJU Channel 47 in Linden/Newark, NJ for several years starting in the late 1960's.

To check how the quality of the picture from Mark VII's stood at U.S. TV stations, for example, type in "KNXT 1978" in the search engine of YouTube.

I have no partisanship; I recognize different "tube" cameras have their good points, and for the most part can tell which is which by what kind of picture is emanated.

..having an image orthicon tube as the luminance channel you get lots of haloing on the highlighting ..jerky zooming and grainy pictures and a few other design flaws which is why NBC hung onto their 41s till the 44s came in. ..looks like the 42s gave TK-44 style pastel pictures with TK-41 style purple halos on the highlights.

And highlight overloads. Appears like one or more PU tubes might have drifted off focus or optical block/ Zoom tracking problems ? All told the 42 probably a loss generator/headache for RCA.

The 44's did seem pastel favoring yellow ? Some RCA receivers of the 70's & 80's also had the orange/yellow thing going on (could not tweak it out) high output phosphors ? matrix ?

For political reasons (read: please the BBC), EMI cameras' international distribution was very limited, if at all - unlike Marconi, ..

Very intriguing as the BBC had unlimited spending & clout

The brochure on TVcameraMuseum has the Queen's Export Award insiginia at the top, but it must be for EMI in general and not for the cameras.

Potential American buyers must have loved the pictures but balked at the price - thus the 3-tube version proposal.

So why did EMI use 4 (identical?) tubes ? Apparently the thinking in the sixties was that having a separate Y channel would mask registration drift - a problem later solved enabling 3-tube (Model 2005) with stable scan (Op-Amps, Neg feedback...)

Very intriguing as the BBC had unlimited spending & clout....
So why did EMI use 4 (identical?) tubes ? Apparently the thinking in the sixties was that having a separate Y channel would mask registration drift - a problem later solved enabling 3-tube (Model 2005) with stable scan (Op-Amps, Neg feedback...)

The BBC certainly didn't have plenty of money.

Why 4 tubes? 2 main reasons. One is registration, as mentioned above. The other is more subtle relating to gamma and constant luminance. The late Ivan James of EMI was a great proponent of constant luminance and may well have influenced the design. Here's Poynton's view on the subject:
http://www.poynton.com/notes/video/Constant_luminance.html

Later designs used "highs out of green" and suchlike, recognising that green is a reasonable proxy for luminance.

Why 4 tubes? 2 main reasons. One is registration, as mentioned above. The other is more subtle relating to gamma and constant luminance. The late Ivan James of EMI was a great proponent of constant luminance and may well have influenced the design. Here's Poynton's view on the subject:
http://www.poynton.com/notes/video/Constant_luminance.html

Later designs used "highs out of green" and suchlike, recognising that green is a reasonable proxy for luminance.
Besides EMI and Marconi, the four-tube concept (as laid out here) was also applied by U.S. maker General Electric on their PE-250, PE-350 and PE-400 studio cameras; as well as by RCA (not as successfully, as described above) on their infamous TK-42 and TK-43 cameras. And of course, on the two American companies' respective film chain cameras (G.E. PE-24/240/245 and RCA TK-27).

The later attribute (on three-tube cameras), I've noticed was referred to as "contours out of green."

Apparently, the 2001 was marketed under the Thomson name in France with vidicon instead of Plumbicon or Leddicon tubes.

Yipes - those must have been real dogs - poor sensitivity, smear, bad color (weak greens due to having the vidicon non-linearity prior to electrical matrixing).

Four-tube cameras are good for getting a good monochrome picture, and for getting good detail in the color picture (eliminating loss of detail due to misregistration). BUT, the color will never be as true as a three-tube camera unless the low-frequency luminance is derived from the three color plumbicons (because Y = L^(1/gamma) is not the same quantity as Y= .3R^(1/gamma) + .59G^(1/gamma) + .11B^(1/gamma).

RCA published a paper showing that the color errors were not too bad, but nevertheless, the tendency would be to lighten saturated reds and blues on a normal NTSC receiver. This could be compensated somewhat by deliberately pulling the blacks lower in the luminance tube channel I suppose (or by modifying the luma tube optics to favor green), but the three tube camera by comparison could have more accurate color.

. The late Ivan James of EMI was a great proponent of constant luminance and may well have influenced the design. Here's Poynton's view on the subject:
http://www.poynton.com/notes/video/Constant_luminance.html

.

Interesting background. Always appreciate your insights.

PE-250, PE-350 and PE-400 studio cameras; as well as by RCA (not as successfully, as described above) on their infamous TK-42 and TK-43 cameras. And of course, on the two American companies' respective film chain cameras (G.E. PE-24/240/245 and RCA TK-27).
."



I'm surprised by the plurality of four tube designs

(because Y = L^(1/gamma) is not the same quantity as Y= .3R^(1/gamma) + .59G^(1/gamma) + .11B^(1/gamma).

RCA published a paper showing that the color errors were not too bad, but nevertheless, the tendency would be to lighten saturated reds and blues on a normal NTSC receiver. This could be compensated somewhat by deliberately pulling the blacks lower in the luminance tube channel I suppose (or by modifying the luma tube optics to favor green), but the three tube camera by comparison could have more accurate color.

Thanks for the added illuminating information.

Interesting thread,

Which was the best British colour camera? You have to ask when? Its no good comparing an EMI 2001 with a Link 120 as there 15+ years between them. All the British colour cameras had good and bad points, Marconi, EMI and Link. Pye did not make a studio colour camera (except for some experimental stuff).

If I had to choose I would go for the EMI 2001, mainly for it's long life in broadcast service. The Link 120 was very good in BBC studio use, but it was soon eclipsed by more modern microprocessor based auto line up cameras like the Thomson's. The ill fated link 130 had great potential but the company (Link) collapsed just as the camera was nearing completion. I have 3 Link 130s in the collection and must get back to getting them going. There were a last generation, full micro controlled auto everything camera.

Marconi produced some fine cameras and had worldwide success with them. My personal favourite is the Marconi MkVIII. It is a first generation auto line-up camera using electric motors to drive the potentiometers. I have (potentially) 4 in working order and they are quite reliable even at 35+ years old.

The design of a camera is based on what technology is available at the time. The EMI 2001 and the Marconi MkVII Used 4 tubes as they were based on the experimental cameras that preceded them using, typically 1 Image Orthicon tube and 3 vidicon tubes, Much like the RCA TK-42 in circa 1962.

The availability of the plumbicon in 1963 changed the whole design of colour cameras. It is interesting to note that Phillips, not UK I know, went straight to a 3 tube design, presumably as they had a lead in the design being the inventors of the Plumbicon.

Apparently, the 2001 was marketed under the Thomson name in France with vidicon instead of Plumbicon or Leddicon tubes. There was an attempt to break the 2001 in the USA via IVC, as the IVC/EMI 2001-B (4-tube) or 2001-C (3-tube),

The 2001 was indeed marked by both Thomson and IVC and I would be interested in copies of any documents or brochures relating to those marketing efforts.

About the Vidicon/Plumbicon debate, The very first Plumbicons were, correctly, described as "Lead Oxide Vidicons" and I am keen to resolve if real vidicons ( possibly 30mm size ) were used in the 2001s or the early descriptions actually refer to "lead Oxide Vidicons".

The EMI 2005, I have one in the collection, is surprisingly like the 2001 in the printed circuit boards and construction, almost to the point were some of them look interchangeable!. It was aimed at the US market and used the BIW TV81 cable to aid that market. It did little for it's sales here and few were sold in the UK.

best regards

Brian Summers www.tvcameramuseum.org

The 2001 was indeed marked by both Thomson and IVC and I would be interested in copies of any documents or brochures relating to those marketing efforts.

About the Vidicon/Plumbicon debate, The very first Plumbicons were, correctly, described as "Lead Oxide Vidicons" and I am keen to resolve if real vidicons ( possibly 30mm size ) were used in the 2001s or the early descriptions actually refer to "lead Oxide Vidicons".
Now that you mention that, I'm interested to see if they meant actual vidicons or the "lead oxide vidicons" as you mentioned. However, I have a few links:
- Ads for IVC/EMI 2001-B/C (and other products offered by IVC) in Broadcasting magazine, March 24, 1969 (on pages 89-98):
http://www.davidgleason.com/Archive%20BC/BC%201969/BC%201969%2003%2024.pdf
- Cover page of Thomson brochure (from Broadcasting101.ws website):
http://www.broadcasting101.ws/france-thomson20.jpg (maybe the "Vidicon à oxyde de plomb" description was French for "Lead Oxide Vidicon," non?)

The IVC ad distinguishes between plumbicons and vidicons. By the way, I don't believe their claim of high quality images from the vidicons at 200-400 foot candles. Outdoors with 1000-7000 foot candles, maybe OK.

And "Vidicon à oxyde de plomb" is certainly "lead oxide vidicon," a generic version of the trademarked "Plumbicon."

...[1984] The ill fated link 130 had great potential but the company (Link) collapsed just as the camera was nearing completion. www.tvcameramuseum.org

Thanks for your valued insights.

Surveying the LINK products at TVcameraMuseum, one sees mechanical sophistication and good performance reports.

The business environment for broadcast manufacturers was always horrific - but especially in the mid '80s as the only broadcast mass market, the USA, was emerging from a devastating double-dip recession. Link wasn't the only one to fold, as 20th century giant, RCA, also crashed. Enter Japan Inc: cross-subsidizing from vigorous consumer product profits and dumping b'cast product on USA to carve out market share. Also capitalizing on emerging CCD technology [RCA's nemesis].

I like more the "Marconi" MK8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V0md69c3SY

Hi all-

I was told by a former co-worker, an ex Philips design engineer, that a 4 tube Plumbicon camera was made at either Eindhoven or Breda, in the Netherlands This was a separate luminance channel camera design, and the end result was that the management at Philips felt that the 4th tube was not worth the expense and extra effort. This despite the arguments of a large installed base of B&W receivers and the registration issues. So all Philips cameras produced at Breda were of the RGB format-and still are under the Grass Valley name.

This was in the mid 1960s, when most manufacturers were producing 4 tube cameras-luminance and RGB. The EMI 2001, with its Delta L detail corrector, was unique for certain. Saturated colors-even blues- had excellent detail, I have read. EMI seemingly understood the failure of constant luminance with this design, and offered a solution. But signal to noise suffered?

Do any working 2001s still exist? I'd love to see one with "torture test" source material.

When RCA saw the Philips/Norelco design in 1967 at NAB, a decision was made the following month to return to the RGB arrangement, and thus the TK-44A was produced. Others followed thereafter, or went out of the camera business.

A long time ago..

Regards,

Jay Ballard

Enter Japan Inc: cross-subsidizing from vigorous consumer product profits and dumping b'cast product on USA to carve out market share.

Dumping on the Comecon as well it seems to me, considering how during the last years of the 80s Sony BVP-360 cameras appeared in East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland and the USSR. I find this remarkable because the camera purchases of the TV stations there were quite different before. And at least at CTV there were some internal discussions about a studio camera using 2/3'' tubes.


Concerning the original topic of this thread: I found it quite interesting to read that the BBC purchased Marconi Mark VII cameras to get started with colour, because these were three years later the first colour cameras of East German DFF, too.

There the last ones remained in service in the continuity studio of the second network until 1987, when it was no longer feasible to still maintain them. It's a bit unclear what the replacements were (one account hints at Soviet KT-132 or KT-176, a single video still reveals a Bosch KCP-60 instead), but either way it is being said that they brought no discernible improvement of picture quality.

The most recent evidence of Mark VII in East German outside broadcasts I found so far on Youtube is from 1980 (here it is interesting how the comet tailing turns out blue on the red-lacking mercury vapor lamps on the stadium rim): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDIIclU2QHw#t=1458