View Full Version : Admiral 20X122 restoration project


bandersen
06-25-2009, 12:23 AM
I'm taking a little break from my Motorola restoration projects to document and hopefully wrap up my Admiral 20X122 restoration.

Part I. Finding one
I acquired most of my sets by chance, but this model I actively sought out for many months. Every now and then would pop up on eBay, but it was always too far away or too expensive. Finally, I spotted one on KiJiJi in Arkansas for $150 and the seller was willing to pack and ship it.

Here it is down in AR

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/01-01.JPG

I was a little nervous both because they insisted on a cashiers check and their lack of experience packing or shipping anything like this.

Alas, my fears were well founded. It arrived via UPS smashed in a million pieces :tears:

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/01-02.jpg

The entire front and top are caved in. CRT neck is snapped. Nasty gouge in the faceplate.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/01-03.jpg

I contacted the folks I bought it from and they filed a damage claim with UPS. Big mistake. I was totally ignorant that it meant UPS would be taking the TV, shipping it back down to AR and, eventually, dismissing the claim.

They were several weeks of angry phone calls, but eventually I gave up. The seller had my money and what was left of the TV and UPS insisted that it wasn't packed properly so they weren't accountable. I just cut my losses in disgust!

I did hang on to a few souvenirs though. It gave me material to test bakelite and faceplate cleaners and polish. I glued a few pieces back together too. Think of Woody Allen in Sleeper when they're going to clone the 'leader' from just his nose :D

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/01-04.jpg

Coming up: Part II - Finding one 2nd attempt...

Phil Nelson
06-25-2009, 02:13 AM
Just out of curiosity, how did they pack it? All I can see in the photos is some wrapping paper, which obviously wouldn't do.

Phil Nelson

bandersen
06-25-2009, 02:35 AM
Yeah, that's about it. Plus some thin rigid foam sheets on the sides. Apparently, they were trying to keep the dimensions under some limit. Going above that limit would have kicking the shipping fees up a notch. If they had bothered to tell me this, I would have sent them additional funds to cover it :rolleyes:.

peverett
06-25-2009, 12:33 PM
This is a prime example of the reason that I never bid on TVs larger than a table radio that I cannot pick up personally. All three times I tried it, the TV was damaged in shipping(UPS being the worst).

bandersen
06-25-2009, 12:43 PM
This is a prime example of the reason that I never bid on TVs larger than a table radio that I cannot pick up personally. All three times I tried it, the TV was damaged in shipping(UPS being the worst).

Yeah, tough lessons learned. I only pickup sets in person now too.

bandersen
06-25-2009, 01:00 PM
A few months later, I found another one in Omaha, Nebraska on eBay. I contacted the seller to discuss shipping. It turned out that he was handy with tools and agreed to dismantle the set and pack it properly in separate boxes.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-00.JPG

Here they are at my place. Did they survive the journey?

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-01.jpg

Yes, they sure did:banana: Not a single crack in the bakelite.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-02.jpg

The chassis is fine and the CRT checks good.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-03.jpg

It has a nifty internal antenna too. It works sorta like like a giant DPDT switch.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-04.jpg

The CRT foam has disintegrated. No surprise there.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-05.jpg

The bakelite is incredibly dull and the faceplate has yellowed. Maybe a heavy smoker owned it?

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-06.jpg

This is the color and shine I hope to restore.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/02-07.jpg

Next up - Step III - Cleaning...

Eric H
06-25-2009, 01:08 PM
Congrats of finally getting one intact!

I found one locally otherwise I never would have had the nerves to ship one.

I used some Minwax Wood Stain to bring back the color on mine, when the Bakelite is dull it's pretty receptive to absorbing stain.

I intended to clear coat it later but never got around to it so it needs to be freshened up a little.

Phil Nelson
06-25-2009, 01:19 PM
Yeah, something tells me that polishing alone might not bring back the dark color. Perhaps this TV sat in bright light for years . . . ?

The shiny surface layer on some Bakelite is thin. If you get too aggressive, you'll polish it right off, and then get into a pulpy underlayer that can't be polished at all. If you polish an area and it gets (or stays) shiny but doesn't change color, then you may want to try something else.

Phil Nelson

bandersen
06-25-2009, 04:34 PM
Thanks for the great tips. I found evidence of fragrant candle wax in several spots and a discolored area on top. That leads me to think that some of this surface dullness is smoke/wax build up. I've cleaned some test areas and it's going well.

On a related note. Any tips on cleaning grille fabric? I'm not sure which color is closer to the original. The darker areas that were underneath the bakelite or the exposed areas?

Hemingray
06-25-2009, 05:21 PM
AK = Alaska
AR = Arkansas.

Where in AR did you find that? I myself would have just driven to get it, I only have a Pontiac Sedan but could have carefully laid it in the back seat. I'd love to have one of these neat little guys though! Congrats on finding one intact! :thmbsp:

wa2ise
06-25-2009, 05:28 PM
On a related note. Any tips on cleaning grille fabric? I'm not sure which color is closer to the original. The darker areas that were underneath the bakelite or the exposed areas?

I'd suspect that the fabric areas hidden behind the bakelite grillwork were not faded by sunlight.

bandersen
06-25-2009, 05:41 PM
I'd suspect that the fabric areas hidden behind the bakelite grillwork were not faded by sunlight.

Yeah, that makes sense. Too bad the whole piece of fabric is glued down to the wood. Maybe just a dusting is the safe way to go.

bandersen
06-25-2009, 05:49 PM
AK = Alaska
AR = Arkansas.

Where in AR did you find that? I myself would have just driven to get it, I only have a Pontiac Sedan but could have carefully laid it in the back seat. I'd love to have one of these neat little guys though! Congrats on finding one intact! :thmbsp:

:stupid: would you believe I work with Google Maps for a living ?

I found it in Fort Smith, AR.

That was before I knew much about vintage TVs or that this community even existed. Now, I do my best to pick a set up myself or let others know about it so it can be saved.

I've got a VW Golf hatchback these days. With the rear seats folded down and a nice blanket it's perfect for sets like this :)

Hemingray
06-25-2009, 07:44 PM
:stupid: would you believe I work with Google Maps for a living ?

I found it in Fort Smith, AR.

That was before I knew much about vintage TVs or that this community even existed. Now, I do my best to pick a set up myself or let others know about it so it can be saved.

I've got a VW Golf hatchback these days. With the rear seats folded down and a nice blanket it's perfect for sets like this :)

hmm, Just 5 1/2 hours from my location too. Wonder if there's any more "gold" over that way. Maybe even down in Little Rock.

7"estatdef
06-25-2009, 07:51 PM
Wow that cloth is really faded badly! Here's a pic of mine. Seems to be a tan/gold fabric with bright gold strands running though it. If you think it would benefit from a cleaning maybe just using a damp cloth migth clean it up a bit or a little woolite perhaps. Good luck with it I have the same set but it has the seperate power supply/ audio chaiss.
Terry

jeyurkon
06-25-2009, 09:57 PM
Drifting off topic... I love the antenna rotor control you have sitting on top of it. I picked one up recently and found a rotor to go with it. It works and I plan on replacing my current rotor with it. I loved it when I was a kid.

John

bandersen
06-25-2009, 10:13 PM
Drifting off topic... I love the antenna rotor control you have sitting on top of it. I picked one up recently and found a rotor to go with it. It works and I plan on replacing my current rotor with it. I loved it when I was a kid.

John

Thanks. I don't have a rotor and couldn't put one on my building regardless so I rigged the wiring so it lights up when plugged in. Someday, I plan on making a digital up/down counter with a slow clock connected to the rotor contacts to simulate an actual rotor turning.

bandersen
06-25-2009, 10:17 PM
Wow that cloth is really faded badly! Here's a pic of mine. Seems to be a tan/gold fabric with bright gold strands running though it. If you think it would benefit from a cleaning maybe just using a damp cloth migth clean it up a bit or a little woolite perhaps. Good luck with it I have the same set but it has the seperate power supply/ audio chaiss.
Terry

Ah, I was hoping someone else here would have one. I tried cleaning a small area with very mild detergent. The gold strands seem a bit brighter, but the fabric remains the same.

Does anyone know a supplier of this fabric? I know there's some great radio grille cloth out there, but I haven't seen any with gold strands like this.

Otherwise, I'll just leave it alone. There aren't any tears and it looks OK.

Phil Nelson
06-25-2009, 11:10 PM
If you have already tried the usual radio grille cloth sources (AES, grillecloth.com) and struck out, then you'll need to live with what you have. I would be cautious about cleaning the cloth. It gets fragile, as well as faded, over the years. Don't rub it hard. Dabbing may remove some obvious dirt, but it won't restore color that faded out years ago.

As for cleaning the Bakelite cabinet versus polishing it, Bakelite is amazingly tough and resistant to chemicals. I have used old fashioned paint stripper -- the nasty stuff -- to remove paint from Bakelite with no bad effects. The radio shown below looked so nice after stripping that I couldn't bear to repaint in the factory paint color.

So use whatever works when cleaning grime. Just don't go crazy with abrasive polishes.

Phil Nelson

bandersen
06-26-2009, 04:40 PM
If you have already tried the usual radio grille cloth sources (AES, grillecloth.com) and struck out, then you'll need to live with what you have. I would be cautious about cleaning the cloth. It gets fragile, as well as faded, over the years. Don't rub it hard. Dabbing may remove some obvious dirt, but it won't restore color that faded out years ago.

As for cleaning the Bakelite cabinet versus polishing it, Bakelite is amazingly tough and resistant to chemicals. I have used old fashioned paint stripper -- the nasty stuff -- to remove paint from Bakelite with no bad effects. The radio shown below looked so nice after stripping that I couldn't bear to repaint in the factory paint color.

So use whatever works when cleaning grime. Just don't go crazy with abrasive polishes.

Phil Nelson

Very nice :thmbsp: I wouldn't have painted that either!

bandersen
06-26-2009, 05:14 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I tested out several products and techniques on those broken bakelite scraps. Here's what I came up with.


Here are the knobs that I got with this set plus a channel changer from another. I'm trying to track down two outer, brass knobs and one inner, brown knob. If anyone has some spares, I'd be happy to purchase or trade for them.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-01.jpg


Those outer knobs polish up very nicely, but be careful not to over polish. They are plated, not solid brass. I have another set where they are down to the base, grey metal.

I used Novus #2 plastic cleaner on the knobs. Cleaning out the grid pattern is a real pain. I've used a toothbrush and toothpicks - very tedious!

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-02.jpg

Here's a 'before'picture of the cabinet. It's dirty, faded and has wax and paint splotches.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-03.jpg


First, I cleaned it using some Dawn dish detergent diluted in warm water. Plus a little mineral spirits on the wax and paint.
Next, I'm gently buffing with a slurry of water and Brasso. Throw down some plastic - it's messy. I cleaned off all the Brasso with a clean towel and water and allowed to dry.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-05.jpg


Next, Novus #2 fine scratch remover. Use this stuff like paste wax. Keep the rag damp while buffing then allow to dry to a haze. Remove it using a clean rag with short, quick strokes.
As Mr Miyagi would say "Wax on! Wax Off!" :)

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-06.jpg


I cleaned the inside too :D

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-08.jpg


Finally, I use Magnolia Glayzit. Heed the warning on the can - it will turn your floors into a skating rink :eek:

Here it is partially reassembled. It's not quite as dark as I had hoped for, but I think that's as good as it will get short of using stain. I'm happy with it.

Note - the CRT has already been removed. You can read about that here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235317

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-10.jpg

I've started poking around the chassis and have all the caps and resistors I should need. There are a bunch of bad caps and fried resistors. The guy I bought it from claimed it worked great :rolleyes:

Coming up: Part IV - replacing bad components.

zenithfan1
06-26-2009, 05:25 PM
Looks great!! 100% difference! Excellent job my man! Thanks for the detailed cleaning process.

bandersen
06-26-2009, 06:07 PM
Looks great!! 100% difference! Excellent job my man! Thanks for the detailed cleaning process.

Thanks. My goal in this thread is to help others with their projects.

P.S. I'm practicing re-stuffing caps. using your tips. it's going well, but my Dremel skills need some honing.

bandersen
06-26-2009, 06:17 PM
Here's another tip. A lot of bakelite have little posts that attach to the speaker board using metal clips. These clips are the type that push on and don't come off. I used a Dremel tool with a cut-off wheel to cut a small notch in each one. I think that's easier and safer than trying to pry them off. Most are in good enough shape that they can be reused.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-00.jpg

wa2ise
06-26-2009, 08:05 PM
The guy I bought it from claimed it worked great :rolleyes:


That usually means that a pilot light, or the tube heaters, lit up when he turned it on...:thumbsdn: Not that it works as intended by the manufacturer. :scratch2:

bandersen
06-26-2009, 08:49 PM
That usually means that a pilot light, or the tube heaters, lit up when he turned it on...:thumbsdn: Not that it works as intended by the manufacturer. :scratch2:

For sure. Here's a little tale of the reverse. I found a blonde Motorola VT71 on craigslist for $50 and noticed she also had a Predicta listed for $125. At the time I had no interest in obtaining one. I like the older sets and knew they were a pain to work on.

So I go to pick up the VT71 and mention that some folks really go nuts for the Predictas and she should ask for more $. She says "Why? It doesn't work even work. Do you want it?". I hesitated and she offered a discount if I took both. So I did :) Would have really been kicking myself today if I hadn't.

That's a great reason to get sets in person - you can haggle. I've knocked 50% of the asking price of some sets.

bgadow
06-27-2009, 09:25 PM
Looking good! Glad this one survived.

My repeated advice-I hope all here will take it. The exception would be a rather small portable: never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never, have a TV like this shipped to you, not even from across the street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't count the sets I have seen posted here and elsewhere that have been totally destroyed. Be patient my friends-they will eventually show up in your backyard, trust me!

Dan Starnes
06-27-2009, 09:35 PM
Loving the progress of this set.

M3-SRT8
06-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Depending on the Grill Cloth material, you might try Carpet Cleaning Solution, diluted.

I took the small, gold speaker cloth from inside my DuMont RA-103 "Chatham", dipped it in this solution, and, within a minute, it had separated from the pressboard backing. I immediately patted the pressboard dry, and left the grillcloth in the solution.

You could see the nicotine leeching from the fabric...

After 15 minutes, I removed it, rinsed it gently with lukewarm water, and gently patted it dry. Try not to disturb the edges, or it will unravel. Then, I let it air dry. It didn't shrink.

I remounted it to the pressboard with spray mount, installed it with the Speaker in the Cabinet, and, it looks fab.

I detailed the opening speaker slots with Howard's before the install, so, it all looks great. The fresh Gold fabric peeking from the slots makes it all the worthwhile. Like resetting the Time Clock.

Details, details...

LJB:smoke:

Sandy G
06-27-2009, 10:58 PM
Awww, man ! You've done a FANTASTIC job on this set...it is UNBELIEVABLE !!!

Phil Nelson
06-27-2009, 10:59 PM
Nice job on the cabinet. I have been a Novus #2 fan for ages.

Did the Glayzit improve the look after you used the Novus? I bought a jug of it a year or two ago, but then didn't use it after I read a negative comment somewhere.

Phil

bandersen
06-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Nice job on the cabinet. I have been a Novus #2 fan for ages.

Did the Glayzit improve the look after you used the Novus? I bought a jug of it a year or two ago, but then didn't use it after I read a negative comment somewhere.

Phil

Absolutely, I love the stuff. The Glayzit gave it an nice even shine and darkened it a shade. I know the last photo doesn't show much improvement, but that's just my camera's flash. It's darker in person.

bandersen
06-30-2009, 05:22 PM
I've decided to give re-stuffing the can electrolytics a try on this set using zenithfan1's technique (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231914&page=2).

I practiced on a few old caps and I think I've got the hang of it :scratch2:

There are 3 in total. Two mounted to the chassis and one clip on. Here's a shot of one just prior to removal. I made notes of the original position and which leads went where.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/04-01.jpg

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/04-02.jpg

I've got a question for y'all. Should there be a metal plate or two around the RF amp? Seems that the side panel and possibly something on the underside is missing.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/04-04.jpg

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/04-05.jpg

Maybe I'll just have to pull the chassis on my 20X12 to compare.

bandersen
07-01-2009, 07:53 PM
Depending on the Grill Cloth material, you might try Carpet Cleaning Solution, diluted.....
Details, details...

LJB:smoke:

Interesting idea and I do have some on hand, but I don't have the nerve to try it. Perhaps after I do some tests on lesser projects.

bandersen
07-07-2009, 08:43 PM
I'm constantly amazed at what pops up on craigslist. Yesterday, I found a guy selling a little can full of Admiral knobs :thmbsp:
They're the metal plated type, but I can use the outer ones for this set.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/05-01.jpg

The seller says they're from radios, but I know I've seen the larger ones on blonde Admiral TVs.
Anyone know what the 3 little ones are from ?

I also dug up a center knob for Contrast, but it's a bit lighter than the others.
So close...

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/05-02.jpg

ihmeyers
07-07-2009, 10:13 PM
Looking good! Glad this one survived.

My repeated advice-I hope all here will take it. The exception would be a rather small portable: never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never,never, never, never, have a TV like this shipped to you, not even from across the street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't count the sets I have seen posted here and elsewhere that have been totally destroyed. Be patient my friends-they will eventually show up in your backyard, trust me!

I got a '66 Admiral Color from Doug in Chicago. Paid $400 (think I paid Doug about $175 for it) to have it trucked down by a moving company. Arrived a OK and I'm happy to have done it. But I agree with you nevertheless.

bgadow
07-11-2009, 09:12 PM
Actually, I think shipping my a moving company is pretty safe. The troubles all seem to be with putting a TV in a box and expecting it to arrive in one piece at the other end. I have shipped a few portables myself, as well as some picture tubes. Not everyone packs the same, though. It is very difficult to pack a heavy table model set well enough that it can survive a big fall. You end up with an enourmous box and all kinds of surcharges due to the size. I just get upset from seeing so many perfectly good TV sets destroyed due to bad packing, and I don't want to see it again!

jeyurkon
07-12-2009, 09:18 AM
Actually, I think shipping my a moving company is pretty safe. The troubles all seem to be with putting a TV in a box and expecting it to arrive in one piece at the other end. I have shipped a few portables myself, as well as some picture tubes. Not everyone packs the same, though. It is very difficult to pack a heavy table model set well enough that it can survive a big fall. You end up with an enourmous box and all kinds of surcharges due to the size. I just get upset from seeing so many perfectly good TV sets destroyed due to bad packing, and I don't want to see it again!

I've only had one set shipped by a moving company, but I was quite happy with them. Vintage Transport didn't box it, but they wrapped it in a quilt and secured it. They were quite careful as they unloaded the console.

When you put something in a box for UPS or FedEX they don't know how delicate it is.

John

Phil Nelson
07-12-2009, 09:58 AM
I have shipped TVs large and small with Craters & Freighters. They are expensive, but you can't beat a custom crate. Once they turn it over to a shipper, however, your crate could still be speared by a forklift or whatever.

If the TV is special or you're just plain cynical, you can either not buy it or move it yourself. I recently drove from CA to WA transporting a set that I wouldn't trust to anyone else.

Phil Nelson

electronjohn
07-12-2009, 10:32 AM
That Admiral's gorgeous! Now I want one. uh-oh.

jeyurkon
07-12-2009, 03:40 PM
I have shipped TVs large and small with Craters & Freighters. They are expensive, but you can't beat a custom crate. Once they turn it over to a shipper, however, your crate could still be speared by a forklift or whatever.

If the TV is special or you're just plain cynical, you can either not buy it or move it yourself. I recently drove from CA to WA transporting a set that I wouldn't trust to anyone else.

Phil Nelson

That's what I liked about vintage transport. There was no turning it over to a shipper. No one else for them to point the finger at if something went wrong.

I'm cynical, but I gave up and had it shipped because of the weather, lack of available time, and the fact the a true accounting of costs would have made it more expensive to move myself. Still, because of my attachment to the set I was very tempted to do it myself.

John

bandersen
07-17-2009, 04:53 PM
Well, after a couple weeks the Glayzit seems to have faded a bit. I wasn't able to get it as dark as I wanted anyhow. Especially when compared to it's big brother next to it.

So, back to R&D on bakelite restoration. I'd heard that wax, like Imperial Hand Glaze, can help. I don't have any of that on hand, but I do have Old English polish and Howard's Feed 'n Wax. I tried out the OE first. Looks fantastic, but like I expected, it just doesn't penetrate the bakelite. It smears and smudges if your touch it.

Next up, the Howard's. It doesn't have quite the shine as the OE, but it seems to adhere a lot better. Here's some photos. I guess time will tell. If the Howard's doesn't hold up, maybe I'll try the Imperial Glaze.

I've just waxed the right-side for a comparison:
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/06-01.jpg

I hope this doesn't fade!
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/06-02.jpg

zenithfan1
07-17-2009, 05:28 PM
Wow, that makes it really pretty, just like new. I hope it stays that way. I've had the shine fade on me too. bakelite can be tricky sometimes. I really hate it when one whole side of something bakelite is bleached out from the sun, you wax it and it looks good for a little while and then turns back to crap. Any tips on that problem other than painting it?

bandersen
07-17-2009, 05:38 PM
Wow, that makes it really pretty, just like new. I hope it stays that way. I've had the shine fade on me too. bakelite can be tricky sometimes. I really hate it when one whole side of something bakelite is bleached out from the sun, you wax it and it looks good for a little while and then turns back to crap. Any tips on that problem other than painting it?

Leave the other side in the sun for a few decades to balance it out :D

Seriously though, earlier in this thread stain was suggested and I've heard shoe polish. Then, perhaps, a coat of clear lacquer.

Personally, I haven't tried any of that. I'd be more willing to try on a small radio, but I'm wary of screwing up this cabinet. Worst case scenario, It'll just be a little faded.

zenithfan1
07-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Yeah, even if it is a little faded, it's even and the knobs will cover the darker areas under them. It's a gorgeous looking set.
How did I know you were gonna tell me to leave the other side in the sun:D??
Ditto on the small radio, always test on an unimportant item. Learned that lesson the hard way long ago. I have a couple of crappy printed finish sets to experiment on as well because a printed finish is on several of my nice sets that need a touch up. I'll try the stain and shoe polish on an old radio from the garage and see what happens.

bandersen
07-17-2009, 08:49 PM
Here's a little update on the inside of this set.

I've finished re-stuffing the capacitors. My aluminum seams were a little sloppy on the base so I used some JB Weld for filler. I'll file it down and paint silver.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-01.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-02.jpg


The flyback test good, but 'sings' a little. I'm not sure if that's normal while testing or maybe the HV cap is leaky?

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-04.jpg

The power transformer seems to be good too.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-05.jpg

Finally, I decided to do something about that dirty, rusty chassis. I used Naval Jelly, Q-tips. steel wool, 600 grit sandpaper and WD40.
Be very careful when using steel wool to not get any bits into the electronics!

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-08.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-10.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-11.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-13.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/07-22.jpg

Any suggestions on keeping that rust from coming back? Some guys paint their radio chassis with lacquer. Does that make sense here?

7"estatdef
07-18-2009, 06:12 PM
If you want to be a copycat I did mine in grey hammertone.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67156
Terry

zenithfan1
07-18-2009, 08:49 PM
Clear satin enamel works too, seals it up and is not too shiny. Krylon makes a good one that sprays on really nice and smooth. Looking great Bob! Nice work on the caps too.:thmbsp:

Phil Nelson
07-18-2009, 08:50 PM
After the Naval Jelly, etc., treatment, I doubt the rust will come back any time soon, if you keep it in a dry place. Using the set from time to time will warm it and keep things dried out, too.

About 10 years ago, I used Naval Jelly to remove rust from scuffs & bleeding pinholes on the painted faceplate of my Hallicrafters SX-42. No signs of rust reappearing. The radio spends most of its time in our indoor storeroom, the proverbial cool, dry place.

If you decide to paint it, I'd make sure the cleaned metal is clean, clean, clean, as in rinsed with lacquer thinner, denatured alchohol, or suchlike. A thin coat of primer before the paint is a good idea, too.

Re Bakelite, I don't think polishes will penetrate it. I have used harsh stripper to remove factory paint from Bakelite, and it didn't penetrate (or damage) the original surface a bit. In a couple of cases, the stripped Bakelite looked so great that I left it bare rather than repaint in the original color.

If you like the look of the wax, that's not a bad solution. It may hold up for quite a while, although it's a semi-permanent coating, like polishes. People who are really hooked on giving Bakelite a deep, glossy luster have applied multiple coats of hand-rubbed lacquer, just as with a wooden cabinet. I don't go for that because Bakelite things were bare when they left the factory, not coated with polish, lacquer, or anything else. My NIB Radio Receptor UHF converter has an original Bakelite finish that shines like the sun, and it is bare.

Nice job on this set, by the way.

Phil

bandersen
07-18-2009, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the compliments!

Phil, that's good to hear regarding the rust not reappearing. I'm not crazy about painting it if I don't really need to. I'll think I'll leave it bare for now and keep an eye on it.

I've been buffing out the bakelite periodically for the last few days and it's looking really good so far. Time will tell.

zenithfan1
07-18-2009, 11:44 PM
I've also used a little 3-in-one oil on small rusty areas that may rust again. Stops it dead. Once metal rusts in one spot, that's where it will come back, it's like cancer for metal. But like you guys said, keep an eye on it and see. I don't like painting whole chassis either. Good luck on a real beauty Bob:thmbsp:

bandersen
07-20-2009, 03:12 PM
If you want to be a copycat I did mine in grey hammertone.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67156
Terry

Nice job Terry!

I'm going to hold off on painting this chassis for now. I did do a little looking around for some hammertone paint over the weekend though and couldn't find any.

Where did you get yours?

Tube TV
07-20-2009, 03:57 PM
Bob , the chassis looks great .
I don't think you will have a problem with the rust returning .
I had a radio chassis that had rust .
After it was cleaned down I put a light coat of turtle wax on it , and it still looks good .
About 10 years later ...

bandersen
07-20-2009, 06:46 PM
Bob , the chassis looks great .
I don't think you will have a problem with the rust returning .
I had a radio chassis that had rust .
After it was cleaned down I put a light coat of turtle wax on it , and it still looks good .
About 10 years later ...

Thanks, perhaps I'll give that a try.

I've spent a lot of time lurking in the antique radio forums. Those guys go to great lengths sometimes like replating a chassis with cadmium.

Seems to me that every TV chassis I've come across has been bare steel or maybe zinc plated.

7"estatdef
07-20-2009, 07:17 PM
TNX! That was about 6 months of working on that set a little at a time. It was working great for a year or so then it developed a vertical sycn problem that turn out to be a .01 mica in the output of the seperater. For some reason it only liked a mica cap there. That was another headscrater that took me awhite to figure out. I think I got the paint at Lowe's of Home Depot. I didn't have much of a choice not to paint as it was really rusty.
Terry

zenithfan1
07-20-2009, 07:25 PM
Damn Terry! Great job! I love to see 'em come back from the dead like that!

7"estatdef
07-20-2009, 07:54 PM
Back in the 70's I picked up the table model of that set at a hamfest for .50c Someone had done alot work to as just about all the caps where replaced and some resistor. But the set wasn't working. The horiz osc coil had gotten twisted and the leads where broken off the coil. With some fine wire and a glass I was able to get it back together and working. Used it till the mid 80's and traded it off for some. When I saw the consolette just waiting for the trashman to come and get her I just could let that happen. So into the backseat of my little Escort it went.
Terry

bandersen
07-21-2009, 10:19 PM
TNX! That was about 6 months of working on that set a little at a time. It was working great for a year or so then it developed a vertical sycn problem that turn out to be a .01 mica in the output of the seperater. For some reason it only liked a mica cap there. That was another headscrater that took me awhite to figure out. I think I got the paint at Lowe's of Home Depot. I didn't have much of a choice not to paint as it was really rusty.
Terry

Hi Terry,

Maybe you can help me avoid the same issue.
Do you recall which cap that was - C315, C402 or C??? in this schematic?

Thanks!
Bob

7"estatdef
07-22-2009, 08:28 AM
The early 20A1 is a little different. It uses a 6AU6 Sync Sep .The later version of the 20A1 is like yours. It was the .01 on the plate of the 6AU6.
Terry

bandersen
07-24-2009, 10:18 PM
I've finally got a set of the four outer metal cover knobs, but they look pretty crappy. The brass is worn off pretty badly exposing the underlying base metal.

I picked up a Caswell brush plating kit a while ago, but didn't get very good results. My pieces came out looking too dark and coppery.
That antenna is proper brass. The drawer pull and knob are my earlier attempts.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/08-01.jpg

I decided to give it one more try before giving up. So I did some homework and altered my technique. It turns out it's supposed to look crappy right after plating. You need to really buff it out. I think I had been plating it much to heavily.

Here's my new technique.

1. Really, really clean the piece to be plated using Soft-Scrub, Brasso whatever it takes to get the base metal clean and shiny.

2. Stroke the item to be plated about 30 times with slow even strokes. Rotate a bit with each stroke with each stroke covering about 1/5 of the knob. Move the negative alligator clip occasionally.

3. Rinse with clean water and immediately buff out with Brasso.

4. ??? I haven't tried this yet, but my plan is to buff with my Dremel and coat with high gloss lacquer. I'll let you know how it goes.



Here's a pic of before cleaning, after cleaning just prior to plating and the final finish.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/08-03.jpg

Here's a pic of a knob after plating but before buffing.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/08-02.jpg

Finally, here's a pic of all four replated knobs :yes:

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/08-09.jpg

zenithfan1
07-25-2009, 10:08 AM
WOW! That looks great! I never even thought of re-plating stuff like that, I'll have to try it, I have more than a few things that could use it.

peverett
07-25-2009, 11:32 AM
I have replated small brass items in the past with good results. I have had some plastic knobs (that were originally chrome/silver) replated with good results. These were from a small GE tv.

If you want to replate plastic, check with the people who do automobile restorations. They can do this or point you to someone who can.

bandersen
09-25-2009, 01:12 AM
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/09-01.jpg

I'm currently tearing apart and reconfiguring my workshop. Should be back to working on this set soon....

jeyurkon
09-25-2009, 07:08 AM
Cool photo! :yes: John

bandersen
10-09-2009, 11:25 PM
I'm finally back in action! It was painful, but I took everything out of my workshop, installed some new shelves and selectively put equipment back in. That includes my new Hickok 615 sweep/marker gen. and EICO 315 signal gen. Too bad the Tek 465 is soo deep - it doesn't fit well on a shelf.

Finding studs in 130+ year old lathe & plaster walls is not fun :no: Especially when one isn't where it should be! http://www.jawaspot.com/smilies/angry11.gif
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/10-01.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/10-02.jpg

I really hope I don't hear a horrible crash as shelves rip out from the walls http://www.jawaspot.com/smilies/pray.gif This stuff is heavy!
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/10-03.jpg

Bakelite still looks good :thmbsp:
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/10-04.jpg

Rust hasn't returned :thmbsp:
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/10-05.jpg

bandersen
10-15-2009, 12:17 AM
The volume/focus control has felt wrong since I got this set. Now I know why. The rear volume pot&switch had separated from the wirewound focus. Luckily, all it took was threading the tabs through the slots and bending them over again. I'm really happy about that as it's a hard control to find.

My other set with this chassis has a horrible repair job where there's only a volume pot up front and the focus is now a separate control in the back where a new hole was drilled :no:

If anyone has a combo 1500 wirewound (focus) + 250K (volume) + AC switch control they don't need, I'll take it of your hands :yes:

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/11-01.jpg

I've found one blown cap so far.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/11-02.jpg

noah300g
01-03-2010, 05:53 PM
The flyback from my 30A1 is arcing, but I know the whereabouts of an old 20X122 nearby. Would the flyback be the same for this set?

bandersen
01-03-2010, 06:58 PM
The flyback from my 30A1 is arcing, but I know the whereabouts of an old 20X122 nearby. Would the flyback be the same for this set?

30A1 uses Admiral part #79B7
20X122 (20X1 chassis) uses Admiral part #79C28-2

However, the Thordarson substitute is the same for both - FLY-1.

I checked my Admiral schematics and the listed resistance values for the two flybacks are within about 10%. So, they're not identical but close.
I'd hazard a guess that it would work OK.

Please tell me you're not going to trash a nice 20X122 just for it's flyback...

bandersen
08-21-2010, 10:18 PM
Over the last year I've tried Glayzit and various oils and waxes. They all faded over time :tears:
Also, note the weird discolored area. I think that's from years of candles. I found traces of fragrant wax on the cabinet when I got it.
Since I had my wet sanding supplies out for another project, I decided to give it shot.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4914494331_89a126a32f_z.jpg

I'm using 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 grits.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4915098584_9d2a79f597_z.jpg

It's looking better already. I probably could have gotten more scratches out if I had been more aggressive, but I was concerned about damaging the hard outer surface.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4914494805_ceeab94a7c_z.jpg

Next, I buffed it with Novus #2 and Simichrome metal polish.
Much better :yes:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4915137738_b2981d35f5_b.jpg

The stain is just about gone too.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4915099872_e031f3c20a_b.jpg

Now I just need to do the rest of the cabinet :drool:

RitchieMars
08-22-2010, 01:28 AM
Wow, you do such great work on those bakelite cabinets! It makes me wish I had more bakelite around here to polish. I've been told my Zenith H724 is actually plastic, but it could use a good shining either way. Man... looking back on those pictures at the beginning of your thread of that other 20X122 hurt my feelings! It reminds me of the bakelite record player I had arrive in the same condition from a seller on Ebay who packed it in nothing but newspaper and an oversized box...

On another note, I'm sort of debating on what route to go on my Zenith tv's control panel and I noticed you used the Caswell's brass plating stuff. I haven't heard much discussion about how to restore those plated metal parts and it made me wonder if that would be a practical approach on something as large as a control panel. Looking at my panel itself, it looks like it was a nice polished brass color on the front, but inside the pencil box door it's more rough as if it were overspray. That led me to think they used some sort of spray-on technique at the factory.

bandersen
08-22-2010, 02:58 PM
Thanks. I try not to think about that smashed 20X122. Sanding and buffing the top was easy and the sides should be too. It's the front I'm not so sure about. Maybe I should get one of those buffing wheel attachments for a drill and some buffing compounds :scratch2:

The item biggest I've tried to plate is the brass bezel on a Philco Mystery Control - about 6" in diameter. It came out a little uneven so I think that's pushing the limit of the Caswell kit.

M3-SRT8
08-23-2010, 01:54 PM
Getting back to your main chassis metal, and as what to do with it. I just very lightly, and unevenly, dust a coat of rust-o-leum aluminum spray paint over the repaired areas. I mean dust, not cover. It gives the impression of cad plating, and stops further corrosion. Sometimes I tone it down with a cotton ball moistened in lacquer thinner, dabbing at the paint to age, dull, or blotch it, so it blends with the rest of the chassis. The idea is not to make it perfect. It works, and easy to undo and try again.:smoke:

M3-SRT8
08-23-2010, 01:57 PM
Thanks. I try not to think about that smashed 20X122. Sanding and buffing the top was easy and the sides should be too. It's the front I'm not so sure about. Maybe I should get one of those buffing wheel attachments for a drill and some buffing compounds :scratch2:

The item biggest I've tried to plate is the brass bezel on a Philco Mystery Control - about 6" in diameter. It came out a little uneven so I think that's pushing the limit of the Caswell kit.

I'd try a 7" orbital buffer with a couple of cotton bonnets on the pad. It allows a slow and easy buff on the bakelite without cutting too fast.:smoke:

bandersen
01-15-2012, 12:23 AM
I made a New Year's resolution to wrap up unfinished projects before starting any new ones. So after a long hiatus, I'm finally going to finish this set!

Here's the rusty power transformer. I used a wire brush to remove most of it. Then, I brushed some satin Rustoleum black enamel on the sides and sprayed the top with gloss engine enamel.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6699316787_1409da986d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6699316787/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6699316403_ffe36223aa_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6699316403/)

kvflyer
01-15-2012, 08:47 AM
I made a New Year's resolution to wrap up unfinished projects before starting any new ones. So after a long hiatus, I'm finally going to finish this set!

Here's the rusty power transformer. I used a wire brush to remove most of it. Then, I brushed some stain Rustoleum black enamel on the sides and sprayed the top with gloss engine enamel.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6699316787_1409da986d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6699316787/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6699316403_ffe36223aa_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6699316403/)

Welcome back! ;) Seriously, I know the feeling. The closest I can get to fixing up a TV is this forum. Most of my stuff is already in Florida and I am taking more the end of this month. Funny when you go looking for a part and then... Darn, it is in Florida. And I have made the same New Year's resolution... Finish what you started, darn it, finish it!!!

Looking forward to this continuation now that your 26R12 is done...

charokeeroad
01-15-2012, 09:25 AM
I shipped a set just like that one from California to the Mid west. I bought it from a Satinist in Santa Monica. (very strange guy) It arrived without dammage. For sure the one I sent was packed well. I took it all apart and shipped it in three boxes. I was shocked to see your set like that but not surprised to hear that UPS did the shipping or in this case drop shipping. I've had similar experiences like yours where the seller did the packing and shipping fortunately none arrive as badly as your did. My Avatar, the Emerson 612 was shipped from Maryland by UPS and when it arrived the cabinet was pretty well broken. I had to dig the parts out of the bottom of the box full of peanuts. That was an intereresing situation as the seller would not ship or pack. I called a local handy man and asked him to pick up the set and take it to UPS which he did for a small fee. Even UPS can't be guarenteed to pack a set well but if they pack and you purchase the insurance at least you can get your money back. If the seller packs and there's no insurance your basically SOL.

Kevin Kuehn
01-16-2012, 12:16 AM
Wow, I had to go back and read all that. I think I restored my 20A1 chassis back in 95 or 96. :scratch2: It was my first and only old TV for many years. Back then it was just me and a copy of Kiver-Television And F-M Servicing (perfect book for learning that set by the way). I don't even think ARF had the TV forum back then? I was really taken up with 1920's radio's for a long time, then it was 1930’s radio…But I've had very fond memories of getting that first TV going since way back then...

Anyhow, I've got you beat on not finishing up projects. That same 20A1 chassis has been setting under plastic in my basement waiting for the cabinet to get finished all these years. :o Way back when, I had to patch some chips in the Bakelite cabinet with an epoxy and Bakelite powder mix, so I wanted to make sure the epoxy was good and cured before I tried polishing out the finish. To be honest I've been scared of how it's going to turn out, so I've just procrastinated over the situation all these years. I have a mild attention deficit thing going on that doesn't help matters, and it's just really easy to keep jumping to the latest and greatest project.

So congratulations on getting back on this set. I'm sure you'll breeze right through it now with all the experience you've achieved since back in 2009. :thmbsp:

charokeeroad
01-16-2012, 08:48 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I tested out several products and techniques on those broken bakelite scraps. Here's what I came up with.


Here are the knobs that I got with this set plus a channel changer from another. I'm trying to track down two outer, brass knobs and one inner, brown knob. If anyone has some spares, I'd be happy to purchase or trade for them.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-01.jpg


Those outer knobs polish up very nicely, but be careful not to over polish. They are plated, not solid brass. I have another set where they are down to the base, grey metal.

I used Novus #2 plastic cleaner on the knobs. Cleaning out the grid pattern is a real pain. I've used a toothbrush and toothpicks - very tedious!

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-02.jpg

Here's a 'before'picture of the cabinet. It's dirty, faded and has wax and paint splotches.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-03.jpg


First, I cleaned it using some Dawn dish detergent diluted in warm water. Plus a little mineral spirits on the wax and paint.
Next, I'm gently buffing with a slurry of water and Brasso. Throw down some plastic - it's messy. I cleaned off all the Brasso with a clean towel and water and allowed to dry.

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-05.jpg


Next, Novus #2 fine scratch remover. Use this stuff like paste wax. Keep the rag damp while buffing then allow to dry to a haze. Remove it using a clean rag with short, quick strokes.
As Mr Miyagi would say "Wax on! Wax Off!" :)

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-06.jpg


I cleaned the inside too :D

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-08.jpg


Finally, I use Magnolia Glayzit. Heed the warning on the can - it will turn your floors into a skating rink :eek:

Here it is partially reassembled. It's not quite as dark as I had hoped for, but I think that's as good as it will get short of using stain. I'm happy with it.

Note - the CRT has already been removed. You can read about that here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235317

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20X122%20restoration/03-10.jpg

I've started poking around the chassis and have all the caps and resistors I should need. There are a bunch of bad caps and fried resistors. The guy I bought it from claimed it worked great :rolleyes:

Coming up: Part IV - replacing bad components.


I can get good color correction on bakelite with minwax red mahogany stain and elbow grease.

bandersen
01-17-2012, 11:13 PM
...If the seller packs and there's no insurance your basically SOL.

Yes indeed - lesson learned. Luckily, it didn't sting too much.

Wow, I had to go back and read all that. I think I restored my 20A1 chassis back in 95 or 96. :scratch2: It was my first and only old TV for many years. Back then it was just me and a copy of Kiver-Television And F-M Servicing (perfect book for learning that set by the way). I don't even think ARF had the TV forum back then? I was really taken up with 1920's radio's for a long time, then it was 1930’s radio…But I've had very fond memories of getting that first TV going since way back then...

Anyhow, I've got you beat on not finishing up projects. That same 20A1 chassis has been setting under plastic in my basement waiting for the cabinet to get finished all these years. :o Way back when, I had to patch some chips in the Bakelite cabinet with an epoxy and Bakelite powder mix, so I wanted to make sure the epoxy was good and cured before I tried polishing out the finish. To be honest I've been scared of how it's going to turn out, so I've just procrastinated over the situation all these years. I have a mild attention deficit thing going on that doesn't help matters, and it's just really easy to keep jumping to the latest and greatest project.

So congratulations on getting back on this set. I'm sure you'll breeze right through it now with all the experience you've achieved since back in 2009. :thmbsp:

Perhaps that epoxy / powder technique would work on my damaged 20X11 tabletop cabinet :scratch2:

I've restored a couple 20A1 chassis and they're the best of the late 40s Admiral designs IMHO. The use of two chassis gave them plenty of room for extras like dual rectified power supply buses and stagger tuned IF.

Single chassis designs like this 20X1 use the audio output tube as a voltage divider for the second B+ rail and an over-coupled IF circuit. That gives you a more pronounced double-humped response rather than a plateau.

This is the 3rd 20X1 I've restored in the last few months, so yeah, it's very familiar territory now :)

I have a little recapping left to do in the IF circuits then reinstall the power transformer, yoke and focus coil.
I expect to power it up in a couple days - work permitting.
Those few yellow caps on the left are from when I started a few years ago. I think I'll swap them out for matching white Cornell Dubilier caps.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6717341195_e1a56f67f4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6717341195/)



I can get good color correction on bakelite with minwax red mahogany stain and elbow grease.

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought stain would effect bakelite much.

Kevin Kuehn
01-18-2012, 12:17 AM
I was really amazed at the picture quality on the 20A1. Silly me aligned it using an Eico 360, because that's the sweeper Kiver featured in his 1949 edition book. I can't really recommend that unit. :D

bandersen
01-18-2012, 03:40 PM
I know what you mean. I first tried a vintage Hickok 615 and Jackson TVG-2. Tricky to restore and calibrate let alone use.

Later, I upgraded to an EICO 369 - much nicer. Later still, I lucked into a couple really nice Wavetek sweep gens. They were originally meant for cable equipment I believe, but work very well on TVs

charokeeroad
01-19-2012, 07:44 AM
The picture sequence is backward but this is a restoration I did on a Motorola bakelite cabinet some time back using stain.
I used Red Oak here but I think Red Mahogany would give a truer color match.

http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z324/charokeeroad/Motorola%209T1%20Restoration/

Kevin Kuehn
01-19-2012, 11:22 AM
That's a pretty impressive transformation. :thmbsp:

I think the key was to first scuff the entire finish with the scotch bright pad(stain won't penetrate well through a waxed or clear finish), then the clear poly replacing the missing original gloss. I've always wanted to try something like dyed Formbys Tung oil, which is basically a phonolic wiping varnish.

Eric H
01-19-2012, 12:38 PM
The picture sequence is backward but this is a restoration I did on a Motorola bakelite cabinet some time back using stain.
I used Red Oak here but I think Red Mahogany would give a truer color match.

http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z324/charokeeroad/Motorola%209T1%20Restoration/


That's a nice job, I've used stain with Lacquer on Bakelite but the results are disappointing, Poly makes more sense in this application, replacing Plastic with Plastic!

I'll have to try it on one of my faded sets,

charokeeroad
01-19-2012, 01:00 PM
That's a nice job, I've used stain with Lacquer on Bakelite but the results are disappointing, Poly makes more sense in this application, replacing Plastic with Plastic!

I'll have to try it on one of my faded sets,

I looked back on the original thread and refreshed my memory on what I did.
The stain process was simple but the poly was where the trick came in. I finally ended up with an oil based poly in the spray can. For the little extra it cost for the spray can vs brush or air brush it's well worth it. They have figured out the nozel size and pressure right from the start.

bandersen
01-19-2012, 04:50 PM
Interesting technique - thanks for sharing.

Maybe we should create a sticky post in the Tech Tips forum for all the bakelite restoration tricks ?

bandersen
01-19-2012, 05:00 PM
I finished recapping and popped out the tuner for an overhaul.

It's stamped Oct 5, 1949 which I find a little surprising. I would have thought this model was retired by 1949 in favor of the 24A12 ?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6722858353_1575ec06e8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6722858353/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7028/6722857993_bf3b4fe979_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6722857993/)

bandersen
01-20-2012, 02:48 PM
I've finished the recap and reassembly.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7142/6732493579_89139ac0cc_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6732493579/)

I'll powering it up for the first time later tonight. Right now I have to go get supplies before the snow gets too deep.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7006/6732493999_d69b153b4a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6732493999/)

bandersen
01-20-2012, 06:53 PM
I powered it up with the 5U4 pulled. All the tube filaments are glowing nicely :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6733477571_97c1a593e1_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6733477571/)

bandersen
01-20-2012, 08:37 PM
I installed the 5U4 and power it up. B+ looks OK, but no sound, raster or HV :( I'll keep poking around.

Eric H
01-20-2012, 09:54 PM
Hi Bob, I'm working on the exact same set right now, this has been one of the easiest sets to get working (you may remember it worked fine with no work done) while at the same time being one of the filthiest chassis.

I noticed the date on yours so I went and checked mine, it's stamped on the opposite end but there it was, Oct 13 1949, just eight days after yours, how many thousands of sets went out the door in between I can hardly guess.

I'll be updating my thread soon with a video.

bandersen
01-22-2012, 03:20 PM
This set is proving to be a bit of a challenge, but I'm getting there.

First, I did some voltage checking and found none in the vertical output circuit or brightness control. Turns out I forgot to install a 1.5K resistor.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6743958513_cc68ba8806_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6743958513/)

That got me a raster, but no video or sound.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6743959593_bdce05dcc6_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6743959593/)

Next, I fired up a B&K 1077 and injected a signal into the first IF stage. That got me sound and a very unstable, off-center picture.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6743960611_aa7f689e02_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6743960611/)

More investigating turned up a dirty 12AU7 sync tube socket, a bad 6J6 and 6AG5 in the tuner.

That got a me a stable picture, good sound and a decent picture.

Just one major issue remaining. The brightness control has a strange effect in the picture. The screen is dark for the 1st half on travel. Then a narrow window of visible picture. Then it blooms out of focus and gets dim.

Seems like the grid bias voltage must be off, but they check out OK. Might also be the 10BP4 CRT. I recall it tested good back when I started this project, but I'll test it again. I'll try swapping it out with a known good one too.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7014/6743961435_5b551570ab_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6743961435/)

old_coot88
01-22-2012, 05:10 PM
Sounds like the brightness control element has an open or dead spot in it.

bandersen
01-22-2012, 11:18 PM
Good idea, but it checks out OK. I perused the troubleshooting section in the Riders service info and found mention of picture blooming. They suggest it could by the picture tube or the 470K resistor in series with the HV lead.

Well, I'm using a 5AXP4 test CRT that I know is good so time to check that resistor. I found it mounted right on the 1X2 rectifier socket.
Briefly it measured around 500K then my DMM went to infinity and stayed there. I then tried a VTVM and got 30M !
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6747094521_916220509f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6747094521/)

I replaced it and viola! Plenty of brightness and no blooming :)
I recall reading that these resistors can go funky, but never experienced it before.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7033/6747131829_9c12fe87a7_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6747131829/)

Just one problem left. While pulling the 10BP4 to install the 5AXP4, the base got hung up in the yoke and ripped out :o
Doesn't look too bad though. I'll try threading the leads back through and gluing the base on. I've done it before :yes:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7014/6747094915_2df6acf05d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6747094915/)

old_coot88
01-22-2012, 11:44 PM
Yikes! Lucky none of the wires broke off where they enter the glass.:eek:

kvflyer
01-23-2012, 08:55 AM
One thing I have seen before and Bob, you may be the one that posted it, is that you can tack solder some longer pieces of wire on to the existing leads to assist in threading those wires into the correct pins. I have tried to do that with the leads the length that you show and it was almost impossible.

Please keep us posted...

Zenith26kc20
01-23-2012, 10:18 AM
If the set has an "iron wire" yoke, be careful with the CRT. The yokes seem to shrink down a bit in size and grab the CRT socket and pull it off when the CRT is removed. If possible, I would put the CRT back in without the base and install the base afterwards. My Admiral did the same thing but it had the copper seal on the CRT base and went to air shortly after. Also, be careful with the yoke. Being tight can make it easy to damage a winding (don't ask me how I know that....).

Eric H
01-23-2012, 11:31 AM
The yoke on my Admiral is tight too, warming them up a little with a heat gun or through operation sometimes makes it a whole lot easier to get the tube in/out.

bandersen
01-23-2012, 02:05 PM
Yikes! Lucky none of the wires broke off where they enter the glass.:eek:

I have had that happen once before and was able to carefully file around the stump and was able to attach a new lead. Not at all fun :no:

One thing I have seen before and Bob, you may be the one that posted it, is that you can tack solder some longer pieces of wire on to the existing leads to assist in threading those wires into the correct pins. I have tried to do that with the leads the length that you show and it was almost impossible.

Please keep us posted...

Yes, that's exactly what I ended up doing. While doing so, it occurred to me it's a lot easier to thread the thin wires through the base pins and then solder them onto the CRT leads. previously, I soldered the wires on and then threaded them through the base.

... If possible, I would put the CRT back in without the base and install the base afterwards ...

Excellent suggestion! I wish I had read it before putting the base back on ;)

The yoke on my Admiral is tight too, warming them up a little with a heat gun or through operation sometimes makes it a whole lot easier to get the tube in/out.

That's how I got it off initially. I guess I didn't use enough heat this time.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7160/6747966571_05ae02b094.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6747966571/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6747966865_734669b37d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6747966865/)

Success!
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7027/6747967157_5452ebd500.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6747967157/)

Glenz75
01-23-2012, 05:40 PM
Looking good Bob :yes: Those resistors again huh? They seem to be failing on a regular basis like capacitors now. Oh well at least it was that not the CRT. ;)

Cheers
Glen

bandersen
01-23-2012, 06:42 PM
Yeah, dang resistors :bash: I replaced 75% or more in the last few sets I restored.

When I first started on this set, I ordered some 1/2 watt carbon composition resistors from Mouser with the intent of keeping it authentic as possible.

Unfortunately, I was finding many of the new ones to be out of tolerance already! Always on the high side - just like the originals. I've also had a hard time finding 1 and 2 watt carbon comps. So, I switched to metal film and metal oxide. Not authentic, but very stable and reliable.

charokeeroad
01-23-2012, 09:17 PM
How did you get the extension wires to be soldered right on the end of the existing lead? I have tied them on the base and given them a few raps and then soldered the wire and the lead together but it's not easy getting them up into the sleve that way. I'm also wondering if a heat sink clip on the existing lead would be helpful at keeping the heat from reaching the metal glass connection

bandersen
01-23-2012, 11:45 PM
I tinned the extension wires and CRT leads. Then, butted the wire ends together and briefly touched my solder iron to the joint.
It's a lot easier if you first thread the extension wires through the base pins, then solder them to the CRT leads.

Penthode
01-24-2012, 12:24 AM
I tinned the extension wires and CRT leads. Then, butted the wire ends together and briefly touched my solder iron to the joint.
It's a lot easier if you first thread the extension wires through the base pins, then solder them to the CRT leads.

It is faster too. Especially when you are fastening the base back on with 5 minute epoxy: time counts.

Reece
01-24-2012, 11:25 AM
Eric and Bob, if your sets were made only 8 days apart, how about subtracting serial numbers (assuming they are sequential) to see how many sets a week were made?

Eric H
01-24-2012, 02:44 PM
Eric and Bob, if your sets were made only 8 days apart, how about subtracting serial numbers (assuming they are sequential) to see how many sets a week were made?

Interesting idea!

My serial got a bit blasted off during cleaning but it' 32,xxx I may have a picture of it I can get the full number off of.

bandersen
01-24-2012, 03:15 PM
I'm having trouble finding the serial# Where did you find it ?

Kevin Kuehn
01-24-2012, 03:31 PM
I'm having trouble finding the serial# Where did you find it ?
I'd like to know too. Curiosity got the better of me, so I had to go have a look at my 20X122 tuner. Mines stamped Sept 20 1949. I guess that makes mine an old timer.

Eric H
01-24-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm having trouble finding the serial# Where did you find it ?

Paper tag, left rear below the Antenna connection.

You can see it in this picture.

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=172464&d=1323567761

bandersen
01-24-2012, 04:37 PM
I checked all 3 of my 20X1 chassis and it's only partially legible on this chassis from a 20X11. 42,000 ? I can't find a date on it though :(

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6757184905_0a9524055d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6757184905/)

Kevin Kuehn
01-25-2012, 12:36 PM
No sign that my set ever had one of those paper tags, there are no rivets in those four holes. :scratch2:

bandersen
01-25-2012, 06:48 PM
I reinstalled the repaired 10BP4 and it's working fine :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6763028713_a29593a442_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6763028713/)

TerrySmith
01-26-2012, 11:09 AM
Excellent work! Those old Admirals really produce a good picture.

tvtimeisfun
01-26-2012, 11:21 AM
Hey Bryan great job on that Admiral keep up the good work I wish I could do a great job like that... CONGRATS

bandersen
01-27-2012, 04:43 PM
No sign that my set ever had one of those paper tags, there are no rivets in those four holes. :scratch2:

No rivets in this particular chassis either.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6772666783_c1e6bfd7c2_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6772666783/)

I've moved on to the final cabinet tweaks like replacing the hardened bezel foam.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7008/6772667163_b2dc8e755a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6772667163/)

bandersen
01-28-2012, 08:25 PM
I completed an alignment and buttoned up the chassis.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6779402511_0f9aa0bde2_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6779402511/)

Here are some screenshots with a DTV converter box as a source. 'Danger, Will Robinson!'
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6779348917_ecc02631c3_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6779348917/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6779349319_b9eccb9807_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6779349319/)
That black stuff in the lower left is some old foam residue that come off easily with a little paint thinner.

bandersen
02-02-2012, 04:10 PM
I gave the cabinet a final rub down with Meguire's Cleaner Wax. Still a bit dull, but plenty smooth and shiny.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6808812659_07d8d0fedf_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6808812659/)

I also stripped the rust off the back and clear coated it.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7150/6808813109_4b0de3fbc0_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6808813109/)

Finally, here it is all back together :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6808814167_75fcb0cc97_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6808814167/)

Next up, I'm going to hook up the internal "roto-scope" antenna and see what reception from a Blonder Tongue modulator is like.

Glenz75
02-02-2012, 05:44 PM
That looks fantastic! :yes: Me want one! :D

Mars777
02-02-2012, 09:16 PM
Another great restoration! Congrats.

I wish I lived in your neck of the woods sometimes. All these finds that you get. I imagine it is mostly due because the manufactures were "right there" in their hayday.

Nothing like those bakelite models show up around that I have found unfortunately.:cry:

Eric H
02-02-2012, 09:52 PM
That looks splendid!
I need to get off my butt and finish mine.

bandersen
02-02-2012, 11:10 PM
Thanks guys!
I fired up my Blonder Tongue AM-60-550B and was able to receive a very good picture using the built-in antenna from about 40 feet away. I found that channel 3 worked best with 9 a close second.

Here are some screenshots from classic Dr Who playing on a DVD player through my BT modulator. He's caught in a molecular dissimilator in that last photo :nerd:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6810351249_c3b343c9bd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6810351249/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7006/6810351691_a52efcb027.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6810351691/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7018/6810352305_ec52f590b4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6810352305/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6810370879_e98b609cc9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6810370879/)

Another great restoration! Congrats.

I wish I lived in your neck of the woods sometimes. All these finds that you get. I imagine it is mostly due because the manufactures were "right there" in their hayday.

Nothing like those bakelite models show up around that I have found unfortunately.:cry:

Whereabouts are you located ?

Kevin Kuehn
02-02-2012, 11:45 PM
That over air looks wonderful. :yes:

kvflyer
02-03-2012, 08:33 AM
Thanks guys!
I fired up my Blonder Tongue AM-60-550B and was able to receive a very good picture using the built-in antenna from about 40 feet away. I found that channel 3 worked best with 9 a close second....

Bob,

Your set looks great as usual. There is something about receiving the signal over the air instead of coax cables all over the place. My local club (MAARC) wants me to give a "Show And Tell" demonstration on the Blonder Tongue Agile Modulator in a few months. I have a box of Sony Watchman sets that I intend to pass out to the group for demonstration purposes. I kinda forgot about this and moved all of my larger sets to Florida already. (Hmmm, buy another console? I DON'T THINK SO!!!)

In my home here in Baltimore, I can broadcast with input from the Verizon Set Top Box and receive it in the basement whilst working on sets. It is nice since you get to demonstrate the entire workings of your set as you are demonstrating here.

Bravo Again!

Kevin Kuehn
02-03-2012, 02:42 PM
On those Blonder Tongue AM-60's- are the last 4 digits of the model # significant for our application? I suspect they're just different years of the same basic model? I see 450's, 550's, 860's, A's and B's all showing up on the bay.

bandersen
02-03-2012, 02:52 PM
I believe that's the upper frequency limit. The first number is output power.