By luck, I ended up meeting a guy that has many many tube radios and a few tube tv's.

I bought one tv set from him, and the ENTIRE "Sams" collection up to 1970. I paid 100.00 for the TV Set, and 50.00 for the Sams.

The Sams was basically an entire pick-up truck load... Hopefully I'll never need to search for a schematic again!

The TV set needs a recap. I know, I'm not supposed to plug it in, but I did anyway....

The set works like it was brand new.

See the attached picture, keep in mind i'm running an old vhs tape through a very old VCR as a signal source....

The cabinet is in very very good shape, I didn't even clean it up before I took this picture.

Inside the set was a tag from a picture tube replacement in 1970.

http://flickr.com/photos/8293453@N08/3204675239/sizes/l/

MK

Lucky you!
John

You lucky Dawg...That bad boy looks brand-spankin NEW....Even the eye tube looks bright...

Man, you got a real sweetie there.
Dan

Gorgeous!!

Wow, you did real good! Beautiful set.

A-m-a-z-i-n-g!!!!!!!!!!

sweet

Well this morning I decided to unload the 1000 pounds of Sams binders out of my truck and find the Sams for this set. I found it and whimpered a little bit when I saw how many capacitors this thing has.... I know, it's all part of the hobby but I wasn't ready for that. :)

I think I'll start with the Filter caps and see how it goes from there.

I hooked the set up to my Sat TV box last night, the picture is absolutely amazing!
I really did luck out with this set.

MK

Looks like a really nice set - congratulations!

Congrats on the SAMS score too!

Maybe some of those caps got changed in the 60s or 70s? If they put a crt in it that late then they kept it well maintained for a long time. Seeing this makes me want a DuMont-I've never found a "real" one. A friend of mine mentioned finding one in an attic somewhere but I guess he never followed up on it for me.

Maybe some of those caps got changed in the 60s or 70s? If they put a crt in it that late then they kept it well maintained for a long time. Seeing this makes me want a DuMont-I've never found a "real" one. A friend of mine mentioned finding one in an attic somewhere but I guess he never followed up on it for me.


The guy that I bought the set from used to be a technician back in the day. He replaced the tube in 70, and I have proof. I found the warranty card with his name on it inside the set.

But I was looking at some of the cans. The are metal with "Sprague" labels on them. They just look different.

I looked at the picture of the chassis in my sams, and it shows the cans as being black, cardboard like.

I asked the guy I bought it from if he did any other work to the set, and he said no.

One other interesting note is that the chassis was not bolted down to the cabinet. The bolts were nowhere to be found. You don't have to remove the chassis to remove the tube in this set.

The owner did mention that this set was in his family since it was new, and was delivered to the house that I picked it up from in 1950. "Bob" also mentioned that he is a Vietnam Veteran. I almost wonder if the caps were replaced in this set while he was overseas. This guy remembers everything, I can't imagine he would forget about recapping this set.

I didn't look that close under the chassis, but I do know that there are wax caps under there.

Who knows?!
MK

Seems like I remember seeing this bad boy's double 1st cousin in a junque shoppe in Knoxville SEVERAL years ago-Way B4 AK, & I don't think it was anywhere close to being in as good a shape. And IIRC, said junque shoppe wanted a king's ransom for it.

Can anyone verify for me that the original Cap cans on the chassis were "Sprague" cans, or were these replacements???

Inquiring minds want to know (mine)!

thanks,

MK

Chances are good that those 'lytics were replaced; the picture just looks too darned good. You could do what I do, and just make sure it is supervised when it's operating, and get ready to shut 'er down if things start getting strange. The set may work fine when cold, and start to fall apart when it heats up.

Well I decided to take a gamble... I ran the set for about three hours tonight while I was sorting through the sams and cleaning my workshop. I was watching the history channel, and it was as if I was watching the current news!

In the three hours that it ran, the picture didn't fade, flicker, distort or change in anyway.

There is also absolutely NO hum at all in the audio....

The question is.... should I recap it, or just let it alone?

I'll take pics of the chassis this week.

MK

If those caps have a blue and orange Sprague label they've probably been changed.

If the originals were black they are probably hot and covered with a paper tube to keep you from getting shocked, watch out, if the replacements aren't covered they may live!

If they are mounted directly to the metal chassis then no problem but if they are mounted in a Phenolic insulator chances are they have B+ on them.

I agree with old1625 -- the picture on your DuMont set looks almost perfect. I'd keep that set if I were you. Like Zeniths, they don't make DuMont TVs like yours anymore (the DuMont Corporation has been out of business for decades, although I do remember seeing the DuMont name being used [under license] on some 19" portables as late as the 1970s).


I never saw a DuMont round-tube TV with the separate FM tuning dial until now. In fact, the only other DuMont TV I ever saw in my life was, IIRC, an RA-112 console, 35-some years ago. That set had the famous DuMont Inputuner which tuned continuously from 54 to 216 MHz, with FM smack-dab in the middle of the dial. (The tuning eye was in the same spot on the tuning scale, and the FM band was clearly marked with the letters "FM" directly above it.) As this set only had one tuning dial and knob for both high- and low-band VHF TV and FM, I don't think the dial drive was that complicated--no more so than the dial cord in the better radios of the period.

Now I'm wondering. Since these DuMont sets had FM and also a very good audio system (your console looks like it has at least one good-sized speaker in the base of the cabinet), did they also have a phonograph input? As good as these TVs must have sounded for standard television shows and FM radio, I think it would have been a terrible mistake if the company had not included provisions for a phono turntable as well. These TVs have the potential to be all-in-one entertainment centers (albeit oldish, of course) if they do have the phono input.

Isn't there a turntable in the pull out drawer? My Dumont had its turntable stolen out of it. What brand turntable is it?

Best regards,
Matt Davala

If it were a Bradford, it should be an RCA 45 player, probably an RP-168 motorboard. But I've now noticed that this isn't a Bradford, so disregard my post. I'm a memory, forget me.....:-)

The next time you run it for an hour or more, shut it off and then feel those filter caps. If they are really warm to the touch, change them. If they are about the same temp as the surrounding chassis I wouldn't worry about them. I would echo Eric's warning about B+ being on those cans.

My experience is that electrolytics from the 60s are still good most of the time, but their time is running out.

Here are some pics of the cans and overall chassis.

Yes it does have a record player... It works like a charm!

http://flickr.com/photos/8293453@N08/3214510470/ one of the cans

http://flickr.com/photos/8293453@N08/3214509368/in/photostream/ the chassis, notice the labels on the cans

http://flickr.com/photos/8293453@N08/3214506866/in/photostream/ original caps?

http://flickr.com/photos/8293453@N08/3213663549/in/photostream/ picture kinda blurry, it's the camera.... not the tube

http://flickr.com/photos/8293453@N08/3213664701/in/photostream/ record player

http://flickr.com/photos/8293453@N08/3214513932/in/photostream/ the AM has its own dial scale... not the FM


do you guys think these caps are original???
thanks for looking,

MK

The can in the first picture has definitely been changed, note it's mounted on an insulator.

I'd bet it's hot in relation to the chassis, just how hot I don't know but it wouldn't hurt to check it with a meter, you'd hate to lay your arm across 450 volts!

That Sprague can must be a replacement. The can behind it may also be; you could try to pull the cardboard sleeve and see. The cans may be isolated merely so that they can be "star grounded" at another point, but more likely they are hot.

That the record player "works like a charm" tells me that this set has had some fairly recent and extensive TLC.

You're talking about a near 60-year-old set, and electrolytic capacitors can die on the store shelves in half the time, and the original idler drive puck in the changer would be glazed over like a golf ball, or altogether just dust and crumbs in the turntable pan. Also a crystal cartridge in the tone arm that is still giving output is likely to be a replacement in my experience; the crystal element in the original would have its bushings in dust, and would likely itself not be in good shape. Six decades is a long time.

The advice from bgadow about checking can temperature is good--along with the warning about voltage levels.

If I recall, there are 5 cans with the Sprague label on them. There is one can with the cardboard over the can, but I didn't look closely at that one yet.

If they were replaced, it must have been at least a little while ago, since the dust on the chassis is consistent everywhere.

I see what you are saying about the phono...

Im just wondering, if this guy I bought the set from did some major work to it:
A)Why wouldn't he tell me (selling point!)
B) Why would he still only charge me 100 bucks...

I'm certain that the "picture tube warranty" card I found inside with a date on 1970 is authentic. It was wedged behind the chassis, with a thick layer of dust on it.

If I recall, there are 5 cans with the Sprague label on them. There is one can with the cardboard over the can, but I didn't look closely at that one yet.

If they were replaced, it must have been at least a little while ago, since the dust on the chassis is consistent everywhere.

I see what you are saying about the phono...

Im just wondering, if this guy I bought the set from did some major work to it:
A)Why wouldn't he tell me (selling point!)
B) Why would he still only charge me 100 bucks...

I'm certain that the "picture tube warranty" card I found inside with a date on 1970 is authentic. It was wedged behind the chassis, with a thick layer of dust on it.

That's a head-scratcher to be sure....

At least the set must've been maintained up to when that CRT got put in. And unless it was a resto project such as we do, it is possible that the set was still in general use at least up to that time.

I guess it can happen; I was given an old Westinghouse table set that had an RCA Silverama replacement CRT put in it at some point. Unfortunately the back was missing, and the chassis was covered in deep mud. I literally hosed the mud out with water, reinserted the tubes after applying tuner cleaner and lubricant to the sockets and controls. After the set dried I simply plugged it in, and the darn thing worked perfectly. It ran for 2 years of regular use before the seleniums let go, and stank us out of the house.

In your case I think you got real lucky. :thmbsp:

If you can see any of the blocking and bypass caps that would originally be bumblebees or wax-dippers you might want to replace 'em for grins--or do as I would do; just watch the TV and enjoy!

That power transformer looks like it can power a few TV sets. It's freaking huge!

That power transformer looks like it can power a few TV sets. It's freaking huge!

I'd made many a hefty power amp in the early days from power transformers cadged from '50s era TVs; they could be had for nothing usually, and $free was what I generally could afford. Most of those amps were powerful enough to get the attention of the police on occasion. Except for color sets on occasion there was nothing much in TV transformers after about '59 or so that attracted my attention for other use, as sets became much more energy efficient.

If you have any Sams dating back to the early '50s study what the power requirements were for these picture-producing space heaters.... :D

I talked to the guy I got the set from last night. He told me that he may have replaced the caps in 1970. I think he probably did when he did the tube replacement.

He said he can't believe that he forgot to put the chassis bolts back in...39 years ago....

This explains the caps issue.

Now my issue is, how well do new (1970 vintage) caps hold up.... Should I replace them again, or leave them be???

They do not get "hot" when running, only about the same temp as the massive transformer and tubes.
Matt K

It sounds like they are good. Is there any way you can test the ESR on them?

As long as your always around when the set is on I'd leave them alone. It doesn't sound like they're leaking or have a high enough ESR to cause problems. If someone else is going to be watching it alot then you might want to change them.

I have a radio and several pieces of electronic equipment from the 60's and the electrolytics are still good. They certainly have a limited lifetime but it seems to be quite variable. I think 2,000 hrs is still quoted for modern aluminum electrolytics.

I also have a collection of vintage electrolytics that I've been reforming and testing with a Sencore LC101. A large fraction of them are in excellent condidtion.

John

That is an RA-109A with the dreaded 19AP4 glass/metal crt. YOU are SO lucky to find this in the condition it is in.

I had one identical to this from about 1983 till sometime around Y2K. Unfotunatly mine was worse for wear from the get go, and I never really had the room for the VERY large set in my modest abode.

I used to tinker with the thing when I first bought it and I remember just the chassis being a back breaker. I would say that the power transformer alone is at least 20lb. I will never forget being fascinated at the elaborate circuitry and the glow of I think around 30 tubes. You can thank the lord that you DONT have to give this one the once over as there is enough caps and resistors in there to build 3 cheap sets.

More icing on the cake in that there is a fairly recent 19AP4 crt in there. They are notorious for loss of vacuum of the years and from some other posts I have read are getting pretty hard to find in good condition.

Ever since I let my set go to a Richmond collector I have wished that I could find another Dumont, perhaps a smaller one, of similar vintage. The 109 would be perfect for someone who wants to have one huge, beautiful set, as opposed to several smaller, not so beautiful sets as a collection. Heck you need a refrigerator dolly to move one of those things!!

For the record I MAY still have a photocopy of the complete Sams folder for this if you don't have one....Let me know if I need to dig.. Oh an finally DO NOT touch the bell of the crt in any way, shape, or form unless properly discharged. It is METAL!!

I have a 19AP4 dud that's got vacuum and is functional (but very weak). It was replaced in the set it came in with a NOS Sylvania one. I got the last one from Moyers. Sorry guys.

They're out there, though. I don't think they were any better/worse than any other metal tube, and they're not as hard to find as some CRTs are...

Those metal cones make excellant flower pots in a flower garden.

Take it from a guy (Me) who just restored a DuMont RA-105B7 "Sussex" from the Ground Up...You are One Lucky Stiff.

Mine had a Raster when I first got it, even though it was sitting in a Basement for 40 years, unused. But, I never turned it on again until I recapped the entire Set, replaced a few WW Pots & Tubes, etc etc etc.

Some of the Electrolytics are replacements. If it was my Set, I would bench it and check out all those (potentially) leaky Caps, dried up Electrolytics, etc.

If one of them Blows, you might have a catastrophie on your hands.

It's working now, I know. But, why take a chance?

If I were You, I would get someone who knows what they're doing. I wouldn't delve into this as a "First Project." You'll probably ruin something.

The Chassis Bolts are no Big Deal. Easily replaced at any Hardware Store. The Star Washers that grip the bottom of the wooden Cabinet Shelf to the Chassis are probably not, but, some 1" diameter Washers will do.

BTW, the Local Newspaper, the Worcester Telegram & Gazzette, is doing a full story on my Restos, including the DuMont, complete with Photos. It will run Feb 11th, one week before the Analog Broadcast Shutdown.

Good Luck with the Televisor. I mean that. But, don't take it for granted that it will run like this forever. The odds are, something will let loose, or, something(s) are already marginal. If it takes out something made of unobtainium, you will kick yourself forever...

LJB:smoke:

If I were You, I would get someone who knows what they're doing. I wouldn't delve into this as a "First Project." You'll probably ruin something.




Ouch! :) I like to think I know a bit about what I am doing. I must admit, I do rely on AK to help me out when I need it!

This isn't my first set. It's number 5. Three of which work, one I'm still having issues with.

This is the FIRST time I've run into replacement filter caps from 1970.

I think the consensus here so far is to let it run when I want to, but don't go to far away. The saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is rolling around in the back of my head right now.

Eventually I'll take it apart and work on it. It does have a few issues that I will need to address, such as the tuning dial is sticky.

Oh yeah, Tubejunke, I have the complete Sams for it. The sams I got from the dude I got the TV from, had the folder in it. He also just called me the other night and said he was "digging around" and found the original owners manual for the set, and the complete Dumont service manual for the set.

He's going to give that to me. I just have to go pick it up.

Thanks again everyone! I appreciate the comments!

Ooooh! OK. I thought this was your First.

Sorry about that...

LJB:smoke:

What does it look like with the doors closed? Many, many years ago my dad turned a dead cabinet TV of about that size into a stereo cabinet.