I just got a DTV converter box, and tried to get reception with my phillips amplified antenna.....I got nothing.

I tried it analog.


I barely got a picture on ANYTHING. And then it was mostly static.

I have never really tried to get TV in 2 years that I have lived in this apartment, and we're in a valley.

Is there anything that I can do? No way to roofmount an antenna nor get cable...

Something doesn't sound right. I get one channel with regular antenna, when I hook up the DTV box I get 50 plus channels. Keep working with the box. Make sure it is hooked up right, you have the initial setup and channel search done right, and your on the right channel on your tv. (Either channel 3 or 4.)

If you have an attic area in your apartment you can put an outdoor antenna in it and improve reception.

I've got a similar reception problem here (deep, deep NW fringe burbs of Bahsten). A fairly large Yagi on the roof with a rotator picks up analog Boston stations quite well; via an add-on digital converter box, most of 'em are no-shows, including the two we're most likely to actually watch (WGBH and WCVB, analog channels 2 and 5).

Not sure yet what we're gonna do in February...

I just got a DTV converter box, and tried to get reception with my phillips amplified antenna.....I got nothing.

I tried it analog.


I barely got a picture on ANYTHING. And then it was mostly static.

I have never really tried to get TV in 2 years that I have lived in this apartment, and we're in a valley.

Is there anything that I can do? No way to roofmount an antenna nor get cable...

It's just a thought; but, take a look at this:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175571&highlight=DTV

I'm afraid reception issues will be one of the major problems with DTV. I was recently speaking to an older man who lives 50 miles away from any TV station. He has a rooftop antenna with a rotor. He can receive the analog channels from Meridian and Jackson. He said he could not receive anything with the digital converter connected. I don't know if he's just missing something or if the reception is really that bad. Let's hope the TV stations increase power once the analog signal is turned off.

Wow, they better crank up those transmitters if alot of people are having issues. IMO, the sudden splotches of digital hash are worse than having nothing at all! You get to your favorite part of the show and suddenly....gone.

But I digress.... If the antenna is amplified, try using an unamplified one and see if maybe the builtin amp is causing trouble...I've seen that happen with analog amplified antennae a lot.

I never have problems receiving local stuff here....I'm immersed in a sea of electrosmog and get 5/5 on most everything. But, that makes it difficult to DX! Especially on the crowded AM/FM bands.

Hmmm. :scratch2:I can't believe you cannot get cable in your area. If you are in a suburb of a major city in Missouri, you should be able to get service from that area's cable system. As to over-the-air TV, I can't believe you aren't getting anything (analog or digital) there, either. Even in a valley you should get at least one analog station well enough to watch.

It ain't that I CAN'T get cable.....it's that my mother won't pay for it......she HATES TV. All of it.

Blames all of society's problems on it, and despises the thought of PAYING for it....

It ain't that I CAN'T get cable.....it's that my mother won't pay for it......she HATES TV. All of it.

Blames all of society's problems on it, and despises the thought of PAYING for it....

Do you think she'd feel better about TV if there was a channel with nothing but '50's through '80's shows on? I would!

Do you think she'd feel better about TV if there was a channel with nothing but '50's through '80's shows on? I would!

Nope.

She hates all TV...

Better off without it. I think so.

But, you should be able to receive one or two free tv channels in this country!

Better off without it. I think so.

But, you should be able to receive one or two free tv channels in this country!

I do like PBS and FOX....

Try putting the antenna in the shed if you have one outside is better...much better...and run some 12awg downleads.

1) try antennaweb.org
2) if you are where I think you are, you're only 9-12 miles form the local stations in St Louis - you should get results pretty easily (unless you are really behind a hill and trying to receive through the dirt).
3) amplified antennas sometimes oscillate and ruin reception instead of helping
4) amplified antennas may overload and ruin reception if you are already in a strong signal area

1) try antennaweb.org
2) if you are where I think you are, you're only 9-12 miles form the local stations in St Louis - you should get results pretty easily (unless you are really behind a hill and trying to receive through the dirt).
3) amplified antennas sometimes oscillate and ruin reception instead of helping
4) amplified antennas may overload and ruin reception if you are already in a strong signal area

Antennaweb.org says I am 14 miles from PBS and 11.5 miles from FOX.

I get static on PBS and nothing on FOX...

David, I know this might sound pretty stupid, but... can you try another TV set?
Maybe the one you're using is busted:dunno:
Are there buildings or trees or hills between you and the transmitters?

Do you have a patio or deck outside? Maybe an antenna would fit out there. If not maybe this would work.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/PF7_antenna.html

just tried a normal set of rabbit ears......got same thing.


My TV does not have a RF jack on the back and I have been using my VCR as a tuner for years...it seems like a little Panasonic portable that I have always gets GREAT reception, although I do not know where it is right now......

just tried a normal set of rabbit ears......got same thing.


My TV does not have a RF jack on the back and I have been using my VCR as a tuner for years...it seems like a little Panasonic portable that I have always gets GREAT reception, although I do not know where it is right now......

I assume your sets' antenna terminals consist of two screws for vhf and two screws for uhf. If it uses some form of mechanical tuner, the channels may not be fine tuned. The same holds true if the set uses a varactor tuner with the thumbwheels for tuning in each station.

let's back up - exactly what do you mean "tried it analog?"

Many DTV converter boxes do not have analog feedthrough, so will block the analog stations.
So, did you try the antenna hooked up to the analog input of your TV, or were you trying to go through the converter?

I found the Panasonic close to where I thought it might be.....brought it up, and on it's little stub of an antenna (it was a trash find and the antenna was broken off about 2" from the case) it receives most of the stations.....not well at all, but theya re there.....and its sitting on the floor, too.

if I can find a 75ohm balun, I'll throw it on there and connect my powered antenna to check the difference.

let's back up - exactly what do you mean "tried it analog?"

Many DTV converter boxes do not have analog feedthrough, so will block the analog stations.
So, did you try the antenna hooked up to the analog input of your TV, or were you trying to go through the converter?

Tried it analog=run antenna into the Ant Input of the VCR.

Are there any large metallic objects nearby? If so, they could be causing trouble. I live about 300 ft. from a water tower and it took my two weeks ofm fiddling with everything to finally get decent reception.

Are there any large metallic objects nearby? If so, they could be causing trouble. I live about 300 ft. from a water tower and it took my two weeks ofm fiddling with everything to finally get decent reception.

Not that I know of.....

...she HATES TV. All of it. Blames all of society's problems on it, and despises the thought of PAYING for it... She and I must have been separated at birth.

Losing FOX is no loss. What the pundits forgot to tell everyone is that Digital TV reception has two modes - picture or no picture. As lond as the receiver can se enough of the'eye' pattern to distinguish a one from a zero you get a picture, when it can't you get that neat "No Signal" message. With analog as the signal deteriorates you get snow but you still get a picture.

Then, because MPEG3 puts most of the work in the transmitting end, where they scan 8 x 8 blocks of pixels and average them out, you sometimes see that blocking effect at the receiver as the signal fades due to atmospheric conditions.

I was watching TV the other night, the local news, and they did one of those "Consumer reports" segments dealing with this issue. Seems its a wide spread problem, with many thousands of viewers in each market having a signal problem. They had on a little old lady who after installing the box, could only get a few channels, and they would have the video/audio freezing up, or the "No Signal" screen.

The reporter went on to say that the government is well aware of the problem, but is doing nothing about it. I'll take that with a grain of salt, as I doubt our local newswoman has an inside track to the FCC or whoever is in charge of the mess. But based on the way things go with the government, she is probably right on the money.

I imagine that many folks have not even got the boxes yet, and the sh*t will hit the fan the closer we get to the switch-over when all the procrastinators finally get around to getting a box.

I can't comment on the reception in my vicinity, as we have cable (Courtesy of someone, it has worked ever since we moved in, it must either have never been disconnected at the pole, or it is wired into one of the other two units in the house) as well as everybody else I know around here, or they have FIOS TV.

Should be interesting to watch what happens as the switch-over approaches....

two modes - picture or no picture. As long as the receiver can see enough of the'eye' pattern to distinguish a one from a zero you get a picture, when it can't you get that neat "No Signal" message. With analog as the signal deteriorates you get snow but you still get a picture.

Then, because MPEG3 puts most of the work in the transmitting end, where they scan 8 x 8 blocks of pixels and average them out, you sometimes see that blocking effect at the receiver as the signal fades due to atmospheric conditions.

Digital TV can be "split" into two sections. One section is the MPEG encoding, and the other is the part that modulates the resulting 1's and 0's onto an RF carrier, "8VSB". It has 8 different levels, and can be thought of as an 8 eyed creature. Eight eye pasterns stacked on top of each other. Same issue with single eye patterns, if the receiver can't echo correct it well enough to get clear eyes, you get no reception.

Cable systems use a different modulation method, called "QAM". But it's the same MPEG compression once you recover the 1's and 0's.

Rabbit ears won't work - nor will your vcr tuner. You need a loop antenna and a dtv tuner to get anything at all

Bryan

Some places are just hopeless for TV reception. That's why cable became so popular in the US compared to smaller countries. It started out as a way for people in smaller towns to be able to receive TV.

The town in PA that I grew up in has only two very snowy over the air channels. Even the town's own PBS station is unwatchable unless you live in the northern part of town. To this day I'm still surprised when I can get a decent picture without connecting cable to the TV.

I built a simple indoor antenna from wire, a 2x4, and a piece of sheet metal. For digital TV, it dramatically outperforms the Radio Shack amplified antenna that I used before, as well as a Philips antenna that I bought at a store and returned because it worked so poorly.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/UHFAntenna2.jpg

The legs of each bowtie are 7" long and they are spaced 7" apart. The whole thing measures 30" by 16". THe 2x4 is shimmed so that the bowties are just under 4" from the reflector. I have seen a smaller version of this (two bowties) made of coathanger wire and an old oven grill for reflector.

Position within the house, and of course orientation, changes its performance quite a bit. I found http://antennaweb.org/ useful in deciding exactly where to point it. Fortunately, all of the stations in my area are in the same general direction.

Yes, it's ugly -- but it works and it only cost about 10 bucks!

Phil Nelson

We used to live in Overland,which is not too far from where you live. If memory serves, it's fairly flat in that area.I don't think the topography would be the source of your problems,even if you're in a valley.

We used to live in Overland,which is not too far from where you live. If memory serves, it's fairly flat in that area.I don't think the topography would be the source of your problems,even if you're in a valley.

It's flat out there......I'm in a hilly area....near olive and Woodsmill if you remember that area....

Rabbit ears won't work - nor will your vcr tuner. You need a loop antenna and a dtv tuner to get anything at all

Bryan

Both antennas I trued have loops on them.....

David are your local stations broadcasting in digital? I thought the switch over was coming in Feb of 09.

David -

If your TV set is near a window, try placing the antenna in the window, or at least near it. I live roughly 35 miles as the crow flies from Chicago, and am using a Philips Silver Sensor on top of a table in the front room. I get 65-90 percent signal on all channels, depending on which tuner's signal meter I'm looking at. The TV is just to the left of the window, and if I place the antenna on top of it, I can easily lose 1/3 the signal.

-Jim

It ain't that I CAN'T get cable.....it's that my mother won't pay for it......she HATES TV. All of it.

Blames all of society's problems on it, and despises the thought of PAYING for it....


Your mother is right. Television is an EVIL invention design to stupify you and rob you of all your free time...

I won't go as far as to say that ALL tv is evil, but I'd tend to agree more with your mom than disagree.

If TV becomes too much of a pain once we are forced into digital, I'm not going to bother much with trying to get it. I'll probably get at least one TV working for emergencies and that's about it. The rest will become DVD players.

I can say this with some truth because since I've wired a digital box into my main antenna system (with no analog pass through) I have to go down in the basement to swap antenna leads. Most of the time I don't bother.

When I lived in AZ from 99-03, I bought a used Sylvania console, circa 1977 for $5 at an estate sale (before I knew of AK). It didn't have a remote. My first non-remote, daily-watcher TV. You'd be amazed at how rarely I ever turned it on. Ironically, the most I can remember using it was during 9/11.

David are your local stations broadcasting in digital? I thought the switch over was coming in Feb of 09.

By now I suspect most every station has cranked up their digital transmitters. Some will be dropping analog earlier than February. Part of the current problem is many stations aren't running full power on digital.

I built a simple indoor antenna from wire, a 2x4, and a piece of sheet metal. For digital TV, it dramatically outperforms the Radio Shack amplified antenna that I used before

The amplifier in that amplified antenna probably overloads on some stronger signals and that will cause intermod distortion products that will jam weaker signals from being received and decoded.

In some locations, you can have a strong station adjacent to a weaker out-of-town station. And FCC complaint digital transmitters will still have some splatter getting into the adjacent channel, and that can jam the weaker signal. Even with a perfect ATSC tuner.

I'm 20 miles from ANYTHING and I can pull several stations with rabbit ears hooked to a DTV converter.
Something's definitely screwed up!
Being that close to St. Louis, you should be able to pick stuff up with your fillings.

You don't have to guess about whether stations are broadcasting digital in your area, or where they're located. I entered your town/state at http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and the chart showed seven digital stations less than 13 miles away. With my homemade antenna I can get stations as far as 30 miles away. The little map will show you which direction to point the antenna.

Phil

This issue is not going to be as much of a problem for people with money, but the poor and people in remote areas will no longer have television. Last Summer I went to Wal Mart to buy a cheap TV for a bedroom. A 13" color TV was $39.99. This year I went to Wal Mart to buy another spare TV. The cheapest TV they had was $269.99.

People in remote areas that used to watch "snowy" television will no longer be able to get anything. This wonderful technical innovation will become a safety issue for people needing emergency information over the television. The cable and satellite companies stand to make a great deal of money on this issue because of the number of people who will not be able to receive a full array of stations any more will look to them to fill out their menu of channels to watch.

At my house, with analog, I was able to receive 6 vhf and 9 uhf stations. With the digital converter I now receive 2 vhf and 3 uhf stations. Luckily for me, I can afford a dish system but a lot of people cannot.

Advances in technology are a wonderful thing, but it is not always the best thing.

This issue is not going to be as much of a problem for people with money, but the poor and people in remote areas will no longer have television. Last Summer I went to Wal Mart to buy a cheap TV for a bedroom. A 13" color TV was $39.99. This year I went to Wal Mart to buy another spare TV. The cheapest TV they had was $269.99.

People in remote areas that used to watch "snowy" television will no longer be able to get anything. This wonderful technical innovation will become a safety issue for people needing emergency information over the television. The cable and satellite companies stand to make a great deal of money on this issue because of the number of people who will not be able to receive a full array of stations any more will look to them to fill out their menu of channels to watch.

At my house, with analog, I was able to receive 6 vhf and 9 uhf stations. With the digital converter I now receive 2 vhf and 3 uhf stations. Luckily for me, I can afford a dish system but a lot of people cannot.

Advances in technology are a wonderful thing, but it is not always the best thing.

Well said. Somebody send this to the FCC!

Your mother is right. Television is an EVIL invention design to stupify you and rob you of all your free time...

never said it wasn't, however, I would like to have reception. I think that's a reasonable request, to watch TV on occasion....

David - even with a proper loop antenna, you'll either need a converter box or a stand-alone DTV tuner. The analog tuners in your TV and VCR won't get it no matter what you do. You could be right under the tower - wouldn't help.

Here is the link to apply for a coupon toward a converter box

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

Cheapest converter box I could find:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3150939

That puts your out of pocket at around $20

Bryan

never said it wasn't, however, I would like to have reception. I think that's a reasonable request, to watch TV on occasion....

Just think of it this way..., fate's doing you a favor by putting you in a position of no TV service. Just think of all the extra time you have:


to spend posting on AK :tresbon:
messing around with your gear :music:
spending time with your girl :banana:
messing around with your other gear :D
working to make money for better gear :deal:
making your mom happy :nutz:


Why have TV???

David - even with a proper loop antenna, you'll either need a converter box or a stand-alone DTV tuner. The analog tuners in your TV and VCR won't get it no matter what you do. You could be right under the tower - wouldn't help.

Here is the link to apply for a coupon toward a converter box

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

Cheapest converter box I could find:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3150939

That puts your out of pocket at around $20

Bryan


We got one, with the coupons. What I am talking about here is that I do not get TV reception at all at my residence. Even before I got the DTV converter box.

Just think of it this way..., fate's doing you a favor by putting you in a position of no TV service. Just think of all the extra time you have:


to spend posting on AK :tresbon:
messing around with your gear :music:
spending time with your girl :banana:
messing around with your other gear :D
working to make money for better gear :deal:
making your mom happy :nutz:


Why have TV???

I like your reasons, but I would still like to be able to watch NOVA, the BBC world service, and SoundStage concerts....

I get 25+ channels with my DTV box. That is of course with a rooftop antenna. I am surprised I get this many channels as it is a directional FM antenna I have.

This issue is not going to be as much of a problem for people with money, but the poor and people in remote areas will no longer have television. Last Summer I went to Wal Mart to buy a cheap TV for a bedroom. A 13" color TV was $39.99. This year I went to Wal Mart to buy another spare TV. The cheapest TV they had was $269.99.

People in remote areas that used to watch "snowy" television will no longer be able to get anything. This wonderful technical innovation will become a safety issue for people needing emergency information over the television. The cable and satellite companies stand to make a great deal of money on this issue because of the number of people who will not be able to receive a full array of stations any more will look to them to fill out their menu of channels to watch.

At my house, with analog, I was able to receive 6 vhf and 9 uhf stations. With the digital converter I now receive 2 vhf and 3 uhf stations. Luckily for me, I can afford a dish system but a lot of people cannot.

Advances in technology are a wonderful thing, but it is not always the best thing.

Well in an emergency, there is always AM radio however with that HD digital radio, if you are near an AM station that has it, the digital signal splatters 10 or 20 kilocycles on each side of the analogue signal. KDKA does that and they run their HD at night and there are times I can't get CFRB or WBZ because of it. I know that's another issue. I can see TV going digital although I would favor keeping the VHF channels analogue and put digital on UHF, but that's water past the bridge now. I do see your point though, the only thing I can suggest is to either pump out more power at the transmitters or to have satellite translator stations out in the sticks.

Sorry - my bad. Didn't read closely enough. I have a very old DTV tuner (not converter) with a $50 antenna sitting in the top of my closet on a shelf on the first floor. I'm way out in Wildwood. I get probably 15-20 channels.

Have you tried running a long antenna wire from one of the loops and just taping it on a stick or something to get it up outside the building - just to see what's up? Can't believe where you are you can't get anything at all.

Bryan

Sorry - my bad. Didn't read closely enough. I have a very old DTV tuner (not converter) with a $50 antenna sitting in the top of my closet on a shelf on the first floor. I'm way out in Wildwood. I get probably 15-20 channels.

Have you tried running a long antenna wire from one of the loops and just taping it on a stick or something to get it up outside the building - just to see what's up? Can't believe where you are you can't get anything at all.

Bryan

I'm gong to try to throw a wire out my window (on second floor) with an antenna on it just to see what happens....soon as I find my 30' RF cable....

I did terrain profile plots for a couple of stations to the corner of Olive and Woods Mill. In the valley just SE of there, line of sight would be blocked, as shown.

By now I suspect most every station has cranked up their digital transmitters. Some will be dropping analog earlier than February. Part of the current problem is many stations aren't running full power on digital.

The cable system in my area (Time Warner of Northeastern Ohio) has converted to 100 percent digital as of about six months ago, more or less. It can be used with analog TVs, however, without a digital cable box (if you are willing to forego the digital channels above channel 100), as the digital signals can be remodulated from ATSC to NTSC at the cable headend on an as-needed basis. I recently downgraded my cable service to what TW calls "expanded basic" (channels 2-99 only); it works perfectly well with my RCA CTC185 and probably my Zenith Sentry 2 (haven't tried the latter on its cable connection in my bedroom yet). I was watching a football game over the weekend, however, and noticed that the digital reception on channel 3, while perfectly good 99.9 percent of the time, did break up very slightly a couple of times, causing the picture to freeze on the screen. The weather was less than perfect that evening, with a lot of wind. Could all that wind and rain have (or should have) affected the digital signals, even on cable?

Every full-power television station in the U.S. has, by law, been operating both analog and digital for quite some time. The TV stations in Wilmington, North Carolina have already switched to all-digital (no more analog) as of a few days ago, so they are ahead of the game, but the rest of us will have to wait until February 19, 2009.

Bryan, I think the digital transition will be especially good for areas such as where you are, that do not currently have affiliates of all three major television networks, such as Salisbury, Md., Wildwood Crest, New Jersey, etc. (Wildwood only has one local TV station, WMGM-TV NBC channel 40, and cannot receive other stations by virtue of geography and distance from other markets). The Salisbury area, for example, may well get OTA NBC service as well on a digital subchannel of one or both of their local network affiliates; if not on 16 or 47, perhaps one of the area's other OTA channels. If you have a Fox or CW affiliate in the area, that station may well pick up NBC on a subchannel. Not only that, but you may be able to get RTN (the Retro Television network) on a subchannel of 16, 47 or even your local PBS station. If you have cable, you may get two or three (!) affiliates of the same network, much as you probably do now; you probably have stations from Washington, D.C. and Baltimore, not to mention Salisbury, on your local cable service (what can you do with three ABC and three CBS affiliates and two NBCs?), so the digital transition may bring yet another city's channels to your area as well. Talk about a 500-channel universe...