I had an eye opening experience today that reminded me what I've been knowing all along. The TV repair business in not going to heck in a handbasket, it's already gone there.

A guy that is marrying my Cousin's Granddaughter brought me a very late model 32" RCA LCD set for repair. He said it was dead. I told him up front that I was not making him any promises.

This set was obviously not built with repair in mind. To open it, you remove all the screws on the back and then the front pops off. To gain access to the boards, you remove several more screws holding the LCD panel. The cables going from the panel are not long enough to move the panel out of the way for easier service. After unplugging the LCD panel, the power supply and the main PCB assemblies can be removed. Both of these assemblies are inside a metal shield; so, the shield must be removed before the PCB's can be serviced.

After not finding anything wrong with my meter, I went online and checked for a parts list for the TV so I could see what new boards would cost. They will not sell pats for this TV! The only thing you can do is send the TV and $319 to RCA and they will send you another TV. The owner was not happy about this and I could tell that he didn't trust me. He said he'd come pick it up and throw it away. I asked him if he wanted me to dispose of it and he laughed and said he'd come pick it up. I told him that I had no use for it and was just offering to get rid of it so he wouldn't have to make a trip over here. He was supposed to have been here in a few minutes and that was 3 hours ago.

It's pretty sad that parts are not available for this set and all the company will do is swap out the set. I understand that the few TV shops left around here "take in" these sets; but, they charge a very high check out fee up front. That's probably the only way they can make any money, especially if more of these TV's are not being repaired.

When we started selling plasma and lcd TV's at tweeter they told us straight up that screens were NOT repairable.

Evan

I don't expect brands like RCA or Zenith to produce much of anything good these days. Those brands are shells of their former selves. I think TV's made by Samsung and other foreign companies (with the exception of China and France) care more about quality then our domestic brands do.

RCA died in 1988. Thomson reanimated its corpse. Now RCA's corpse is deteriorating and the result is electronics that are no better then the Chinese junk for sale at Wal-Mart.

I thought there was a US Federal law requiring companies to supply parts for 7 years from the end of production.

I thought there was a US Federal law requiring companies to supply parts for 7 years from the end of production.

I thought the same thing; but, several of my TV repair friends have had problems getting parts for TV's that were 3 years old or less. These were not all throw away junk. Many times, the sets were more expensive big screens, etc.

Recently, a friend of mine was asked to fix a Zenith HD RPTV that had convergence problems. There were some burned resistors on the convergence board. He could not find the value anywhere, even from Zenith. He tried to get a complete board from Zenith and they said it was NLA. Zenith did, however, provide the owners with a new set since the old one was "unrepairable".

I think it's now gotten to the point where companies must make the set good if it's under warranty. After the warranty expires, they don't have to give you the time of day if they don't want to.

I don't expect brands like RCA or Zenith to produce much of anything good these days. Those brands are shells of their former selves. I think TV's made by Samsung and other foreign companies (with the exception of China and France) care more about quality then our domestic brands do.

RCA died in 1988. Thomson reanimated its corpse. Now RCA's corpse is deteriorating and the result is electronics that are no better then the Chinese junk for sale at Wal-Mart.

I forgot to mention that this RCA was made in, you guessed it, CHINA!

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I forgot to mention that this RCA was made in, you guessed it, CHINA!


There is the answer to your question, given the hourly rate of a good tech and what the assembly line people in China get paid it is cheaper to replace the whole set and probably not even worth the shipping charge to ship the old one back to China for repairs. What all this does to the landfills is another story.

There is the answer to your question, given the hourly rate of a good tech and what the assembly line people in China get paid it is cheaper to replace the whole set and probably not even worth the shipping charge to ship the old one back to China for repairs. What all this does to the landfills is another story.

Speaking of landfills, there is a warning on the back of this set stating that the product contains mercury and that the TV should be recycled properly. It seems to me like there would be a lot less electronic waste if they would build stuff to last longer and to be easily repairable when it does fail.

I thought there was a US Federal law requiring companies to supply parts for 7 years from the end of production.

I asked a repair guy the same thing when told he couldn't find a volume unit for my Yammy made in 2000. He said he thinks car parts have to be kept available for 10 years, but then cars are much more expensive than most electronics and it's not just the wealthy that need cars... almost everyone owns a car or two.

I hear Tweeter Etc closed it's service center this week. It is difficult to make a buck repairing modern drek. People want it cheap. Guess what goes out the window?

I hear Tweeter Etc closed it's service center this week. It is difficult to make a buck repairing modern drek. People want it cheap. Guess what goes out the window?

what a coincidence... it was a Tweeter repairman down here in Houston I was talking about, working on my Yammy. Wonder if they folded up shop, too.

It's not just the new style TV's, I'm seeing it in the M.I. industry too. Have seen amps made by QSC, Ampeg, Crate, Line 6 and others that had boards full of SMC components and/or IC's where model numbers were obscured and worse yet a few where the chassis was folded up around the main PCB so they couldn't be removed! The jacks and pots protruded thru the front and back panels with less than 2mm of play. In the case of QSC and Loud Technologies (Ampeg/Crate) I was told that if the items failed under warranty, the customer was to return the item to them where they would NOT repair the item, but simply ship out a replacement. Post warranty, if the item was out of production, the customer was on their own. In the case of the in-warranty Line 6, the customer was sent a complete replacement combo amp, with instructions to "throw away" the bad unit! :sigh:

I bought one of those Roomba robots from Amazon. It was a re-manufactured unit and it did not work. After a couple of go-rounds with the customer service folks, during which time they sent me a new battery and a lot of dumb advice, they finally agreed to send a new unit. They said I was to reuse the removable dust bin part on the back and install it on the new unit. As to the rest I could keep it for parts or toss it.

The real shame of all this is that people who had been eeking out a living doing repairs are now on the dole or trying to find another occupation. The companies might have at least given them some warning.

Yes I have worked on those $200 Vox amps. They are unrepairable.

Here's the reverse side of the coin. A few months ago I was brought a cheap (<$100) Chinese Fender amp. It was out of warranty, two of the three plastic jacks had fallen apart, a PCB mounted 250k pot's plastic shaft was sheared off and it was filthy inside and out. The customer wanted it fixed regardless of cost. Well, the crap-jax are something I keep in-stock because they ALWAYS fail. The pot model was only used on a few amps and had been discontinued and it took six weeks to get a replacement; having to be special ordered. I also had to buy a set of six knobs to replace the one that was missing. Anyway, parts were available for it, the amp wasn't hard to service. But the customer is going to spend in repairs about what he paid for the amp brand new. To him it was worth it and I applaud him for not throwing it away...but was it wise for him to have it repaired?

Even major appliances these days aren't built to last - years ago, you got 15 - 25 years out of a clothes washer, and at least 10 were trouble free. Today, you're lucky to go 3 years without a breakdown, and they're scrap by 5.

Speaking of which, GE's spinning off their lightbulb and appliance divisions because they "aren't profitable enough". IMHO, GE's going the way of Westinghouse, - in 15 years, all that'll be left is the nuke division (whoops - sold to Hitachi already - ironically, the Japanese own Westinghouse and GE's nuke divisions now).

Though frankly, the sooner GE dies, the better. IMHO, they're right behind Wal-Mart and GM in terms of representing everything that's wrong with US business right now.

I agree it's very sad.... Such a throwaway society....

The letter from Loud Technologies was the final straw that made me close up the service center. No warning just out of the blue this letter comes making it sound like they were doing me a favor. They closed all the warrenty claim accounts, and closed the parts accounts. Oh they would sell me parts, but I had to prepay for them. Most of the equipment had deteriated to chinese junk anyway, and some was just not serviceable. I asked for the schematics for a small powered mixer once and they sent me 4 different schemes. None of which matched the mixer. I put it back in the box and told them to send it back to china. Fender was usually not hard to work on, but the warrenty process had gotten very picky. Parts were avaliable, but the new amps were just not very high quality. Line 6 was very easy to work with, but since I was not an official service center for them, they would not send me service manuals. They did however provide me with the tech line phone number, and would stay with me any time I had a problem with a customers amp. They always sent me any parts to complete the repair, usually no charge, even if it was out of warrenty. Around here though it was Fender, SLM, and Peavey gear that was sold the most. I did service some Yorkville gear, and their warrenty claim process was a breeze. They just said fix it and send us the bill. No fuss no muss. They always paid promptly. Warrenty work for them was rare since most of their gear was built well and serviceable. I havn't seen a lot of the new stuff, so I don't know about their quality now.

Bill R

Part of the problem is that when yoiu call customer service you are usually speaking to someone in India and they don't always understand technical terms.

My future son in law plays in a rock band. He has an old Peavy amp that has seen many, many miles and years of use, abuse and neglect on the road as well as many coats of stale beer on the case. Some of the controls were getting noisy and one of the small control shafts was sheared off. I took it apart and cleaned the controls but I couldn't find a replacement pot for the broken one anywhere that I looked. The last resort was to call Peavy customer service. After giving the model number and serial number to the real live English speaking person that answered the phone I was told that the pot was $2.25 (if I remember correctly) and the knob was $1.00. When I asked how much shipping and handling would be she said that they don't charge their customers for S&H. I had the parts a few days later. Wow! :thmbsp:

The only reason that I mention this is that, sadly, my experience with Peavy stands out as an extremely rare and unusual occurrence these days but there are still a few companies that still get it and understand how valuable that kind of service is. It was Made in the USA too! (It's really a sad comment that even mentioning that is noteworthy.)

All of this reflects the relentless pursuit of "build it cheaper, so long as it meets the minimum requirements" mentality that has driven business competition in recent decades. Years ago, companies competed by building in quality that they could shout about in ads, to attract customers. Then one day OPEC, stagflation and belt-tightening came along, followed very closely by the WalMart effect... and the world will never be the same. Hammering down the cost of production, even at the expense of quality, became the world's business mantra, because that is what consumers have voted for, every time they (=WE) have decided to buy from WalMart (or almost any companies that remained in competition with them!).

It is a mixed blessing: more people can own more appliances and goods today than ever before in the planet's history...but gone are the days of over-engineered products like the 70s (and earlier) audio gear we talk so much about around here.

Individually, we can do little to change it, beyond:

(1)Where you see someone still trying to offer REAL quality, or someone still doing traditional repairs to keep stuff going, SUPPORT them, even if it means spending a few dollars more.

(2)When you can, buy quality stuff from yesteryear and refurbish it. Just today I found a seriously heavy-duty vacuum cleaner with a solid steel casing (it rolls around on solid casters). I will rebuild it, add a level of filtration and "upgrade" my much more modern plastic-housed vacuum to this decades-old model that should outlive me!

(3) Just accept it (like most people do) and keep buying the new stuff and throwing it out when it breaks in a year or two. In other words, stifle your disgust, silence your conscience and be "normal" like (almost) everyone else.

I, the Great Carnak also known as mr_fixer do hereby predict. That in the future you will have to buy multiple quantities of household goods in order to get at least one that works out of the box. I have spoken! Logan

I believe that the current model for consumer electronics is predicated on the notion that the state of the art in "technology" advances so rapidly that there is no need to build durable electronic gear. Why would someone want to repair a piece of obsolete (roughly, more than 9 months old) equipment?

On the other hand: you could buy a new production 2A3 (direct heated triode power output tube) in the 1940s, and you can still buy a new production 2A3 today. :-)

... at a slight difference in cost.

well, yeah, but there's been inflation...

My future son in law plays in a rock band. He has an old Peavy amp that has seen many, many miles and years of use, abuse and neglect on the road as well as many coats of stale beer on the case. Some of the controls were getting noisy and one of the small control shafts was sheared off. I took it apart and cleaned the controls but I couldn't find a replacement pot for the broken one anywhere that I looked. The last resort was to call Peavy customer service. After giving the model number and serial number to the real live English speaking person that answered the phone I was told that the pot was $2.25 (if I remember correctly) and the knob was $1.00. When I asked how much shipping and handling would be she said that they don't charge their customers for S&H. I had the parts a few days later. Wow! :thmbsp:

The only reason that I mention this is that, sadly, my experience with Peavy stands out as an extremely rare and unusual occurrence these days but there are still a few companies that still get it and understand how valuable that kind of service is. It was Made in the USA too! (It's really a sad comment that even mentioning that is noteworthy.)

I recently fixed a '70's vintage Peavey guitar amp for a friend. His used 6L6's for the outputs and the rest was SS. My friend said it had seen extensive use over the decades. All it needed was a control cleaning.

BTW, Peavey was started right here in my hometown of Meridian, MS!

Even major appliances these days aren't built to last - years ago, you got 15 - 25 years out of a clothes washer, and at least 10 were trouble free. Today, you're lucky to go 3 years without a breakdown, and they're scrap by 5.

Speaking of which, GE's spinning off their lightbulb and appliance divisions because they "aren't profitable enough". IMHO, GE's going the way of Westinghouse, - in 15 years, all that'll be left is the nuke division (whoops - sold to Hitachi already - ironically, the Japanese own Westinghouse and GE's nuke divisions now).

Though frankly, the sooner GE dies, the better. IMHO, they're right behind Wal-Mart and GM in terms of representing everything that's wrong with US business right now.

Let's see, we had a Kenmore dryer that was probably 30 years old when it finally died. A Roper dryer replaced that one and it lasted maybe 5 years. We've had the Frigidaire for about 2 years now. Something tells me that I'd better be saving up for a new dryer, LOL!

I ever tell you how much I HATE dealing with GE's industrial divisions? Their PLC line is ok, but the support blows - parts take forever to arrive, their 'new', i.e. 4 year old, Pacsystem line is really bad - stuff's forever on 'engineering hold' because of 'bad parts from China'. They just recalled every single CPU because of a stupidly undersized heat sink that resulted in overheating. A customer of mine got f***ed by one and was NOT HAPPY. GE's answer is "Yeah we screwed up but we're GE so we'll replace it, once we get the new parts from China in a month or two." Tech support is some Indian who graduated from Dell to a 'real product'. So I'm being told to reinstall the software.

This isn't cheap stuff - one project we did, the control gear alone was $30,000 for the parts. We're talking a big bucks line of stuff. :rant:

Oh, and GE's switches/pilot lights/contactors/starter are JUNK these days. Especially when you can get ABB or Sprecher + Schuh for less...

The flip side - Allan-Bradley gives us 24/7/365 tech support, where we get a AMERICAN who actually KNOWS the product and can help you - fast. The few times I've had to use it, it's been a dream - dial, enter your code, get a human, get the answer, get going. Of course, we almost never send A-B stuff back for repair because it never breaks in the first place.

Well, think of it as payback as GE is starting to sell itself off.

This is about the older appliances. Last December when i was attending my uncles funeral i stopped at my aunts house after the wake. When i was at the house i was surprized that the old frost free Whirlpool refrigerator they had for many years was still working. I was not there in 7 years. That refrigerator was in that kitchen since the house was remodeled in 1983, and i think it was in their old kitchen 2 years prior to the remodel! Also i was surprized that the 1990 Magnavox Smart Window console TV was still in the living room working, but that TV does not have many hours on it since they never had cable.

If you look at companies like Carr amps, Vandersteen, Ohm Acoustics, and (formerly) Cain & Cain and Trainwreck, it's often the president who takes your call and boxes up the part. Maybe there is something in the premium we pay for quality kit...:scratch2:?

I know that Roy Allison still contributes to the Allison Acoustics [fanclub] boards. He's no spring chicken.

It's a shame we live in a throwaway society. The only bright spot in repairing things is I had to replace part of a Pfister faucet, I called the company and they gave me parts for free, I only had to pay for shipping. It took a little while because it was during the summer and their warehouse staff was off for a week, but free parts and paying shipping, that wasn't bad. I also have a 1938 Frigidare refrigerator that still works.

Speaking of appliances, I forgot to mention that my parents had two Sears Coldspot window A/C units that lasted for many years.

1. The oldest was a 110 V unit that was bought around '63 and lasted until the mid '90's when we finally got central A/C. It still worked; but, it didn't cool the best. Dad gave it to the guy that installed the central A/C and he was thrilled to get it. I think he knew how much better that older model was.

2. The next was a larger 220 V unit that was bought in the mid '60's and ran until 1983. I actually remember the night it died. It was working perfectly and then quit, just like the plug had been pulled. My Mother called the local Whirlpool dealer and they were very quick to tell her that the unit was not worth repairing and we needed a new A/C. I don't know if they were telling the truth or if they just wanted to sell a new A/C. That Whirlpool is still in the wall; but, was never the A/C that the old Sears was. We got central A/C in '96 and the only time the Whirlpool ever gets turned on is when the central A/C breaks.

It's not that the consumer appliances or electronics are falling apart, but it is the whole society itself that is falling apart. Picture this, our living standards back in the late 60s were much better off than today. People today are much more ruder than before. In addition to lower quality appliances, we are also experiencing lower quality music records. I'm a musician, and to me, music records have gone downhill quickly since Radiohead's OK Computer in 1997. I think the downhills in our society has got to do with the invention of Internet.

Peavey was always easy to deal with. They still will send you any part if they have it, and they usually do, and do not charge shipping. I wasn't an official service center, but when I asked for service schematics, they sent me a copy of all of them for just shipping. It was three or four boxes of schematics. Prints for every piece of old and current Peavey equipment. Their customer service was outstanding.

Bill R

It's not that the consumer appliances or electronics are falling apart, but it is the whole society itself that is falling apart. Picture this, our living standards in late 60s were much better off than today. People today are much more ruder than before. In addition to lower quality appliances, we are also experiencing lower quality music records. I'm a musician, and to me, music records have gone downhill quickly since Radiohead's OK Computer in 1997. I think the downhills in our society has got to do with the invention of Internet.

I'm another one that thinks music has gone downhill. In fact, I mostly listen to older music from the '70's on back. Many times, those round vinyl things known as records are the only way I can hear some of that old, decent music. I'm certainly not going to hear it on the radio anymore. At least not around here.

I agree with many of you here, regarding the lower music standards, recording quality biting the dust, and consumer appliances/electronics becoming junk for the most part. Where did we go wrong? I really wish people still repaired things instead of tossing them. It seems as though automobiles are about the only things that people choose to fix anymore.

Got an old early '50s Westinghouse floor fan. All metal, 2-speed, heavy, substantial machine. This thing has seen so much use in my family (so I've heard) that they claim its a miracle its even still in one piece! I painted the thing, put on a new cord, and oiled the motor. I don't see this fan breaking anytime in my life! Where did we go wrong?

I wonder how long a new plasma TV or LCD TV will last before something breaks down. :scratch2:

That is why I'm sticking with CRT TV's. At least you can get them serviced.

Not to mention what it does to the environment if a lot of those sets land up in the landfill.

I agree with many of you here, regarding the lower music standards, recording quality biting the dust, and consumer appliances/electronics becoming junk for the most part. Where did we go wrong? I really wish people still repaired things instead of tossing them. It seems as though automobiles are about the only things that people choose to fix anymore.

Got an old early '50s Westinghouse floor fan. All metal, 2-speed, heavy, substantial machine. This thing has seen so much use in my family (so I've heard) that they claim its a miracle its even still in one piece! I painted the thing, put on a new cord, and oiled the motor. I don't see this fan breaking anytime in my life! Where did we go wrong?

That's a good point about automobiles being one of the few things that people choose to repair. Most people don't have an extra $30K+ stashed under the mattress to go buy a new one. I do wonder when we'll see "disposable automobiles". I know it's a ludicrous thought; but, most people thought it would never happen regarding everything else that is now considered disposable.

I've got a few old fans myself. I've got a mid '30's Robbins & Myers that works perfectly and the motor does not get hot even after hours of use. I've got a 1940 Emerson fan in the shop that works equally well. Today, I bought one of the newer ('60's or early '70's) Emerson fans with a more modern guard. Otherwise, it looks similar to the older ones from the '40's. I gave $15 for it at a flea market and all it needed was a power cord and lubrication. It's had a rough life; but, it works fine.

I still wish I had my parents' Sunbeam waffle iron from 1947 and their Sears Homart window fan from the same time period. The motor died on the fan and, IIRC, the waffle iron needed a new cord. My dad tossed them in the mid '90's because he didn't see the need in that "junk" sitting here. I'm sure a motor could have been found easily enough for the fan and I'm sure the waffle iron could have been fixed with a new cord.

Not just music and electronics, but movie also counts. One of the most laughable movies of all time, in my opinion, is Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Before it was released, you don't know how many times the marketing has spammed into many people's minds claiming it will be our next legendary movie since Raiders of the Lost Ark. So all the older generations like you took their words, paid $10 to see the film, and then at the end, they will feel letdown and find the movie to be just as cheaply made like all other recent films and not as higher quality as the previous three Indiana Jones films made in the 80s. And they were right, the movie critics only gave it three stars if they had followed the strict old guidelines. But since all the movies made after 2000 are so cheaply made, and none can be qualified anymore, the critics now have to be 30% more lenient than they did 20 years ago, which means, they might have graded five stars when it's not supposed to be five stars in the first place.

I totally ignored all these marketing spams. I have never heard a new movie made after 2000 can exceed the quality from the 80s. Anything made after 2000 is cheaply-made, regardless of how hard the marketers had tried.

I watched the Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade for the very first time ever in my life, and while I was sitting in my chair, I was totally amazed by the quality. I was so thirsty and wanted more. While they were exciting, there was that special feel inside me that I had never felt in more than 20 years in my life, which means what Steven Spielberg produced more than 20 years ago is now really forgotten.

I like movies with real stunts. Not stunts made with the aide of a computer. The stunts on the classic TV show Chips were real stunts. Peoples lives were in jeopardy when filming that show. As for movies made after the year 2000 i like watching the movie Bring It On. That movie has nothing to do with stunts. Its just me ogling the ladies. .

Gentlemen,

Case in point! Our broadcast stations got a brand new GE refrigerator 2 years ago. The ice maker uses a PC board as part of the assembly. Any power surge or glitch and that PC board acts like a fuse. We went through 9 of them in 6 months. This part cost $100 per and not warranty covered. After the 9th one, we put it up for sale on the Thrifty Nickel. We replaced it with a 1940 Frigidaire which has had a full servicing and works better than any new one. I refuse to buy any new GE appliances any more.

To the person who blames the internet for the decline of... everything:

Are you insane?

First off, quality started going downhill well before the internet took off. Zenith in the early 1990's is a great example.

As for Hollywood not producing a great movie since 2000? I happen to think that Hannibal and the remake of Red Dragon were pretty good. Maybe not masterpieces, but certainly not bad. The Others was also a damn good movie.

The internet has its cons, like anything else, but it's spawned a lot of original works. Just look at albinoblacksheep.com.

As for low quality junk: The major well established brands in the USA produce low quality junk, however Japanese and Korean companies make better stuff overall. I could go into how our domestic brands are being kept alive through subsidies and outsourcing, but that's trending into politics.

Overall, things are CHANGING. Places like Hollywood have grown into sprawling decaying mounds of red tape which stifles creativity, hence the number of forgettable movies it produces. Movies like the "new" Indiana Jones movie star aging actors and aging directors/script writers who are over the hill. That's why the newest Indiana Jones movie can't hold a candle to the original.

While Hollywood dies a slow, painful death; independant filmmakers, who are generally NOT making movies for money, are making some movies that don't have bloated budgets, and while they lack the polish that most Hollywood movies have, they usually have a story, and maybe even actors that put Hollywood to shame.

If anything, the internet is forcing old business models to either evolve or die, and it's created, and creating new forms of entertainment. Older mediums like the movies and TV are trying to adapt, hence the 24/7 media coverage and cranking out low quality movies that rehash the same few stories over and over.

...

Most of the existing TV shops promote a throw away situation . I brought an older toshiba solid state to a shop for repairs, the repairs weren't done, and the the guy complained it was an older set, rude attitude for older repair guy with experience, talking himself out a job. The era for most people to find a Great TV shop that will at least try to fix just about anything seems mostly long gone. I'm amazed at the big money people spend on newer TVs when there's hardly any repair shops left and few companies probaly offer long term support for parts. Most great sets from the seventies are just existant in brochures and catalog pictures only.

:thumbsdn::tears::no:

I miss the days from the late '80's to the mid '90's when I would walk in any given TV shop and the place would be packed with TV's of all brands and ages for repair.

What shops we have left were not around in the '70's and wouldn't know what to do with an older set if they had one. Even when there were older guys left around here, they did not want to work on anything over a few years old and would usually turn people away at the door. Most shops around here stopped taking in tube sets by the late '80's or early '90's. I have a friend who recently got out of TV repair after 35+ years and I'm always joking with him about getting help to fix my tube TV's. He lets me know real quick that he's not interested and that he forgot (on purpose) what he knew about the old stuff. He probably has too many memories of fixing older sets just to have them come back in a week with a totally different problem. Many times, the customers think the whole TV should be guaranteed, not just the work performed.

From what I can tell, most shops left in my area only take in large screen sets (LCD, plasma, RPTV, DLP, etc). A large chunk of their money is made on up-front check-out fees. There is one shop left, that I know of, that will still take regular old CRT sets. I get all his "junk" and it's almost never anything over a few years old. Back when I was getting junk there from the mid '90's to around 2000, 20+ year old sets were more common than newer models. I guess that was the time period when customers were refusing the repair estimates and letting the shop junk the set. The owner told me that older TV's are rarely brought in anymore.

I once asked a repair shop on LI if they had any tube tv's for sale. They showed me some modern CRT sets, and I replied, "No, I mean tube-chassis sets".

The owner says, "Tube-chassis? Are you kidding? No, haven't seen one in over 20 years!" And laughed at me, lol. It was memorable for me :D

I know of a couple guys about my age who are in the TV repair business and I really feel sorry for them. One of them is in a family business and they did finally get in to major appliances so that should keep him going. Most of the repairmen I've met (and we should all go out and meet them while we can!) are at retirement age or in many cases well beyond. I think some of them just keep at it for something to do.

The age of the disposable car is on the way, don't worry. The average 5 year old American sedan isn't worth repairing after what I would consider a "mild" wreck. Chinese cars are coming. Good luck finding those parts in a few years. Chrysler & Ford are now discontinuing parts ASAP. Last week I needed something for an '01 Cherokee and it's NLA.

Personally, I've fixed several things around the house lately that were quite easy. Replaced the oven element in the Whirlpool electric stove; replaced the front lower drum guides on my old GE dryer. Easy to find the parts online, plenty of DIY'er information out there. Compare this to trying to get my refrigerator fixed a few years back, before all the frozen food thawed out. First guy, who drives by my house on his way home every day, said the soonest he could stop by would be mid-morning the following day. Second guy, a customer of mine, gives me the same story. Either could have made some money off me that night, with a little gumption.

It's sad to say; but, most of the old TV repair guys / antique radio collectors that I knew have now passed on. Most of them were able to keep their hobby going up until they died. About the only "old school" TV repairman I know recently got out of the business after about 35 years. He's in his mid 50's now. He has little to no interest in the old stuff, though.

Since just about everyone I knew locally is gone, I get to pester the people on here, LOL!

[QUOTE=radiotvnut;1985636]That's a good point about automobiles being one of the few things that people choose to repair. Most people don't have an extra $30K+ stashed under the mattress to go buy a new one. I do wonder when we'll see "disposable automobiles". [ /QUOTE]

We already do

Called Daewoo and Hyundai

Cars used to be made to last 40 yrs, these will go for 10

I know this elderly lady that still drives a '68 or '69 Dodge Dart. She bought it new and has no plans to get rid of it. She also has a late '60's H.H. Scott stereo that I repaired years ago and now it's back in my hands for repair again. Her son tried to talk her into buying a new car, stereo, etc. and she told him real quick that she wanted no part of that until her old stuff could no longer be serviced. She has no old TV's, unfortunately.

We were sticking with CRT type TVs until the local eleactric company fried two by pushing the line voltage to 149 volts during some kind of change over. I repaired the 20" Toshiba simply by replacing the whole main board. I figured it had been stressed enough that even if I replace bad parts more would fail. The big 27" Sony is sitting beside my workbench simply because no one would service it here. They all said bring it in - the damn thing weighs 85 pounds and I had our handyman carry it down to the shop, I can't pick it up. One shop offered to pick it up for $100, but advised me that in all honesty it would likely end up costing more than a new set.

We have a GE freezer downstairs that is older thn dirt - still runs. The dryer is a 22 year old Whirlpool that I recently overhauled. Rebuilt a 25 year old garage door opener last year. Great place for parts www.repairclinic.com, even got parts for our neighbors 30 year old dishwasher - she is 86 so we kind of look out for her.

The big box stores pi$$ me off because they sell brand x this year and brand y next so you can never get parts.

Regarding the 'people being meaner' post, as one who used to be a road warrior you can't pay me to get on a plane anymore. You would have to put me in irons to get me on Southworst. If we can't get there by train we don't go.

The days of a tv repairman are long gone . There are no more guys here in NJ that even know of tube chassis tvs .Most of them are either retiried or dead . There are two shops that i know of still repairing stuff , however its newer stuff and mostly warrenty work . One of the shops plans on closing soon . I think the problem is , you have to remember a shop has overhead like paying rent(which is high here ) and other related buissness fees . So a repairman cant repair a tv for 20 or 30 bucks . If you give someone a bill for like a hundred bucks , they are probably going to say keep it and they will buy a new tv at walmart for a couple of hundred . Recently newer tvs have come down in price and most people feel if they get 3 to 6 years out of , then junk it and buy another . Thats just the way it is now , a throw away society . Make it cheap and inexpensive . I dont know of anyone making a good living repairing tvs except for guys that are doing it out of their houses and even that is not a great amount of money .

These posts have been very interesting to read. I discovered what most of these posts have said many years ago. The best thing that you can do for yourself is what i do. (1) Do a little research before you buy certain (expensive) items. I realize that can be tough to do but there are ways. A certain consumer mag has a computer generated chart that tells you various areas of a car that prove reliable or unreliable. These charts are generated by people that actually owned that car. You will quickly see a pattern if a certain area (part) is bad it is usually is bad for several model years. There is a reason why certain Japanese makes are highly rated. Compare a Toyota Siena to a Chevy Astro. Remember these are NOT opinions, but actual results of what owners dealt with. (2) the less obscure an item the easier it will be to get parts/repair/someone who knows how to fix it. (3) I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT...Learn how it works,read the owners manual, and maintain it properly. As most of you have stated "Things just aint built the same anymore" So you can't abuse them or you will be buying a new one & those hassles. You have to change your oil more than once a year, and that new home theater 7.1 won't last long with that stack of People magazines ontop of it.

Hello Gentlemen,

The four previous pages i've just read are some of the most depressing reading i've done in decades.

Wouldn't it be great if some movement came along totally boycotting purchases of modern junk with everyone buying up quality vintage items from E-Bay or elsewhere....

Well, anyway, many of you know that i live in Paris, France. Since the 50s we say that France follows America with a 10-15 year lag in time, so some things that have disappeared in the US still exist here.

Picture this: a family run Radio/TV repair shop which has been in business for 40 years +. Father Jean-Pierre is 60-ish, son Frank is just short of 30. Their bread & butter business is being the Revox* (Swiss-built Hi-Fi) Service Station for the country, but they will accept tube radios, 150 lb ultra-hi-fi PWR amps from the 80s with weird schematics, and little old me's weird stuff, all the way to NTSC TVs.

Now i know that people like this are a dying species, and like the Panda, must be preserved. So:
- I supply the schematics
- Weird parts, like obsolete SONY ICs found in China
- Far out (for France) test gear i.e. NTSC 3.58 TV Test Gen.
- Pay handsomely (cash).

For them:
- I scour the Internet for schematics for weird stuff brought in by customers
- Occasionally purchase schematics & parts for them overseas as the shop has no CC on its account and they don't speak English.
- My expenses are deducted from my repairs.
- Take them out to lunch 3-4 times a year.

All in All, a win-win situation, i often have a workload for weeks on end where i don't have time to touch a soldering iron, they help me gain time with for instance tedious electrolytic cap changes. This is my small contribution to keeping a very precious activity in operation, if possible, for years to come.

Last Esoteric repair: 2 Indextron TVs, 3rd one is a stinker (dead PWR IC + corroded PCB tracks) but they will fix it in the end, not bad, eh for a French repair shop?

Here are some pictures of the shop for all you nostalgic actors & readers of this soon-to-be-forgotten trade.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

*Revox, high quality Hi-Fi made in Switzerland since the 1950s (G-36 recorder for instance). The Brand is well alive and kicking, has a cult following of afficionados, famous for its line of 2/4 track 1/4 inch 3 head-3 motor reel to reel recorders, outstanding performance FM tuners with several "firsts" in the field such as digital tuning in the late 70s (Nixie tubes!) and Pulse-Counting FM demodulator.

Revox has a sister company specialized in Pro audio gear for Broadcast/Recording studios: Studer, complete name Willi Studer A.G. To this day, Studer A.G. manufactures some of the most sophisticated Pro-Audio mixing desks in the business, just have a look at the "Vista" series.

http://www.revoxonline.ch/

http://www.audiopro.de/live/studer_index.html

* I do not work, nor have ties to any of these two companies

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

What do people in France do with NTSC TVs? :-)

If somehow I was in the neighborhood of that store I would have to stop in, even if I couldn't communicate with them! The "15 year lag time" might just be right. There was a similiar shop in the next town, with their showroom stacked full of tube radios and early TV sets. Probably the first time I'd seen a 630ts. Then one day I drove by and the place was empty. Sadly, I never introduced myself, just browsed the showroom then went on.

*Revox, high quality Hi-Fi made in Switzerland since the 1950s (G-36 recorder for instance). The Brand is well alive and kicking, has a cult following of afficionados, famous for its line of 2/4 track 1/4 inch 3 head-3 motor reel to reel recorders,


Back in the mid seventies, my college radio station WCPR Hoboken had a really nice Revox reel to reel machine. A top brand back then.

It's not that the consumer appliances or electronics are falling apart, but it is the whole society itself that is falling apart. Picture this, our living standards back in the late 60s were much better off than today. People today are much more ruder than before. In addition to lower quality appliances, we are also experiencing lower quality music records. I'm a musician, and to me, music records have gone downhill quickly since Radiohead's OK Computer in 1997. I think the downhills in our society has got to do with the invention of Internet.

I totally agree... but what's falling apart is not just the American society... the whole world is falling apart...




First off, quality started going downhill well before the internet took off. Zenith in the early 1990's is a great example.



I think that reliability problems in older products were rarely intentional/planned, and were usually the result of hidden and often unpredictable manufacturing problems... 15GP22s anyone?

Here in Europe, Philips had a big problem in the mid-late 80s with their 45AX CRT, their first tube with square corners, it was meant to be a high quality product, yet many of them failed within a couple of years due to shorts and weak cathodes and some developed extremely poor focus in a matter of months due to an internal leak...

The difference is that those failures were not planned, they were the result of unintentional manufacturing problems, Philips quickly corrected them and offered free replacement CRTs even for out-of-warranty sets... the later improved 45AX was in fact an excellent, durable, successful CRT that was still used by many quality European TV manufacturers in the early 2000s

The other big difference is that, apart from the CRT, 90s Zenith and 80s Philips sets were nice, solid, well made sets... modern sets are 100% cheap junk... cabinets are made of thin junky plastic, CRTs are junk, speakers are junk, capacitors are junk, PCBs are junk, flybacks are junk, everything is poorly engineered and poorly put together with terrible ROHS lead free solder, and there are cheap nasty SMD components all over the place...

Hi mhardy6647,

You inquired:
"What do people in France do with NTSC TVs? :-)"

Well, if you want to collect TVs of any era, France does not offer too much choice! The country used first 30/60/120/180/240 lines but no sets survive except very, very few in museums or private collections. 441 line TVs are rare but can be found, then 819 lines with Positive video RF and AM sound, then 625 with the same RF scheme no one else uses, then color with SECAM. So either you limit yourself to an all-French collection, or you widen your choice by accepting the Euro-standard used by most other countries (625, B/G and I, UK) and of course NTSC sets.

By the sheer luck of birth, i have family in the US and first saw color TV in 1957 or 1958, which decided of my future career right there and then.

Thanks to modern wizardry such as the Aurora products (Darryl, how can we ever thank you enough!) and affordable digital standards conversion, it becomes possible to operate all the major TV standards anywhere on the planet.

Also, a TV is more fun when it works. All modern Western nations will be shutting down analogue transmissions between 2009 (USA) and 2012. Even if dual illumination is prolonged a bit because of political agendas, the global shutdown will take place fairly soon*, so i'm ready with a full array of LPTV transmitters + spares to face the great blackout.
I've chosen NTSC/M, PAL B/G + I in UHF and SECAM L
Vintage standards are 819/E and 405/A (modulators only, not broadcast)

*Interestingly, France and England faced the same problem 30 years ago when the 819 line (Fr) and 405 line (UK) services were due for closure. Both countries maintained dual illumination of the old + new standard for a full 15 years before ending the service. I can't see that happening in today's fast-paced world.
Final closedown of 819 took place in 1983, yes, it was that late!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

Hi mhardy6647,

You inquired:
"What do people in France do with NTSC TVs? :-)"

Well, if you want to collect TVs of any era, France does not offer too much choice! The country used first 30/60/120/180/240 lines but no sets survive except very, very few in museums or private collections. 441 line TVs are rare but can be found, then 819 lines with Positive video RF and AM sound, then 625 with the same RF scheme no one else uses, then color with SECAM. So either you limit yourself to an all-French collection, or you widen your choice by accepting the Euro-standard used by most other countries (625, B/G and I, UK) and of course NTSC sets.

By the sheer luck of birth, i have family in the US and first saw color TV in 1957 or 1958, which decided of my future career right there and then.

Thanks to modern wizardry such as the Aurora products (Darryl, how can we ever thank you enough!) and affordable digital standards conversion, it becomes possible to operate all the major TV standards anywhere on the planet.

Also, a TV is more fun when it works. All modern Western nations will be shutting down analogue transmissions between 2009 (USA) and 2012. Even if dual illumination is prolonged a bit because of political agendas, the global shutdown will take place fairly soon*, so i'm ready with a full array of LPTV transmitters + spares to face the great blackout.
I've chosen NTSC/M, PAL B/G + I in UHF and SECAM L
Vintage standards are 819/E and 405/A (modulators only, not broadcast)

*Interestingly, France and England faced the same problem 30 years ago when the 819 line (Fr) and 405 line (UK) services were due for closure. Both countries maintained dual illumination of the old + new standard for a full 15 years before ending the service. I can't see that happening in today's fast-paced world.
Final closedown of 819 took place in 1983, yes, it was that late!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

I would have loved to see the 819 line standard, it is really high definition. I've heard they experimented with color in 819 and IIRC, I think that color system was used for medical schools in their teaching due to the high definition picture but that's what I heard 20 years ago. I know it use a lot of bandwidth but the 819 line picture must have been awesome to look at. I'm glad at least we have converters to keep our old TV's running for our ATSC standard and your DVB standard. One, I'm too poor to get a new TV, I'm looking for more steady work so the 1982 Zenith model that we've been using for over 25 years will have to do. ;)

Over here in the U.S., on this board, someone said they ran a ATSC digital converter on an old 441 line system (we briefly used 441 lines before our NTSC 525 line standard) set and it does work. I know on my old black and white Sony, the picture is very crisp when I know they are sending an HDTV picture down the pike, usually NBC shows the Olympic trials in high def. I know it isn't true high def, but still, you can see the better picture quality.

I know this elderly lady that still drives a '68 or '69 Dodge Dart. She bought it new and has no plans to get rid of it. She also has a late '60's H.H. Scott stereo that I repaired years ago and now it's back in my hands for repair again. Her son tried to talk her into buying a new car, stereo, etc. and she told him real quick that she wanted no part of that until her old stuff could no longer be serviced. She has no old TV's, unfortunately.
A Dodge Dart will never die because it has this run forever Slant 6 engine that you can't kill.

Good Day NowhereMan 1966,

Thanks! for your post. You wrote:

"I would have loved to see the 819 line standard, it is really high definition".

Well, yes and no: i remember seing 875-900 test pattern black/white bars resolved with clear separation on my Grandma's TV in 1959. The French 819 channel (see table below) had a 10.00 MHz video bandwith allocation, but the 4" then 3.5" Image Orthicon camera tubes were not capable of fully using the available bandwith. Also wide video bandwith was(is) expensive to attain in consumer TVs, so only the best really did justice to the system. Still, a live camera picture showing 819 in the late 50s was quite a jaw-dropping experience when compared to 405 (UK) & 441 (vintage French).

"I've heard they experimented with color in 819 and IIRC, I think that color system was used for medical schools in their teaching due to the high definition picture but that's what I heard 20 years ago".

To my knowledge, Nope! Sorry! Urban Legend.
What was used, was a 625 derivation of CBS field-Sequential indeed sold for CCTV filming of operations to med students in hospitals.
The Paris Science Museum "The Palace of Discovery" had a color TV demo display showing a field sequential Thomson Vidicon camera on 3 modified RCA 21" monitors + a vertically-mounted 21" RCA color tube showing the various components. The demo ran from 1961-1968. Color TV started here in Oct 1967.

Recently (2 years ago) myself and a friend had to privilege to visit the Museum's storage warehouse and took pictures of a complete 1948 CBS system including a color camera + a big + small monitor. This is the last remaining complete CBS system at a single site.

see my pictures here on the ETF site:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/cnam.html

"I know it use a lot of bandwidth but the 819 line picture must have been awesome to look at".

RF Channel total width was 14.00 MHz of which 10.00 MHz dedicated to video.

"I'm glad at least we have converters to keep our old TV's running for our ATSC standard and your DVB standard. One, I'm too poor to get a new TV, I'm looking for more steady work so the 1982 Zenith model that we've been using for over 25 years will have to do."

Keep it running! it's better than all the Chinese junk!

"Over here in the U.S., on this board, someone said they ran a ATSC digital converter on an old 441 line system (we briefly used 441 lines before our NTSC 525 line standard) set and it does work. I know on my old black and white Sony, the picture is very crisp when I know they are sending an HDTV picture down the pike, usually NBC shows the Olympic trials in high def. I know it isn't true high def, but still, you can see the better picture quality."

I worked 25 years in Broadcast TV. I saw the first 1125/60 analogue pictures at NAB in 1985, then later at a customer's in Paris: TV pioneer David Niles. The pictures were jaw-dropping awesome on a 27" Sony 300 lb, 50K$ CRT Trinitron monitor.
You could clearly see the fuzz on the upper lip of a blonde female anchorwoman, filmed 10 feet away.

Sorry to say, 1080/i/p is nice but no match for what i saw 23 years ago. I suspect that the camera-fresh signal is OK but that the transmission compression imposed for economic reasons just ruins the signal, what a shame !
Just my 2 cents...

HD in Europe:
Over here, we have DVB-T (Digital Video Broadcasting-Terrestrial) a pan-European union Digital MPEG-2 625/50 color system. The next step, starting in oct here will be HD DVB-T using MPEG-4 compression, i.e. same RF bandwith, but HD.

DVB-S (satellite) is already up & running. UK Sat TV behemoth Sky-TV (8 million subscribers in the UK alone) already has 12 full HD channels running 24/7. What's nice here is that HD channels are full HD 1080i all the time, no "variable geometry" depending on the content (show, movie, sports,advertising, ...)

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

Wow, so much there, it's tough to cover it all. I know here in the U.S., our ATSC uses MPEG-2 compression. I'd like to see the old analogue 1125 line system, I think it was developed in Japan and was considered to be used here. I'm kind of curious on how sports will look on the HDTV system with compression and all, so far, it seems like it works well on NASCAR (stock car, well used to be) races plus it seems hockey does OK. I'm curious on how it will be when the Olympics come on and when our NFL season starts.

HDTV, I noticed a little more "blocking" from weak signals in the summer but we do have trees in the backyard and we have been having storms with a lot of wind lately.

I've seen an article from the early 1950's about the comparison between the 405 line British and 819 line French standards showing a grumpy British guy watching a terrible picture while a happy French guy was watching a great picture. Well, let's face it, the 405 system was developed in the mid-1930's, the 819 line was developed during and just after World War II. I think during World War II the Germans and the Vichy French developed a 1050 line system too.

I haven't had much experience in seeing 720 or 1080 line HD pictures although on my old sets, I can tell they are of higher quality.

I have three DTV boxes, my aunt didn't need her second one so she gave it to me. I have one hooked up to a 1982 Zenith console, 25 inch, the picture is good as the day we got it over 25 years ago although when the picture tube was tested in 1999, it was showing its age a little. Well, it does take a minute to warm up where it used to take 15 seconds, but it is still good and I'm willing to put up with that. I think because we keep the brightness down, our tubes last a lot longer, Mom hates it when a TV picture is too bright or the contrast is way up too high plus she likes the consoles as I do. The Zenith does show her age a little from time to time so when she acts up, we have a 1998 19 inch BPC TV, also a Zenith ready to go and we give the old one a rest.

My other setup is an ATSC box driving a Commodore 1702 computer monitor, my room TV and in the computer room, an ATSC box hooked up to a 1964? Sony B&W set.

I can't get used to TV's being flat pictures, I like the old consoles.

I can tell you right now that compression artifacts are noticable on 1080i and 720p HD channels, including sports.

I watch these channels on a 19" computer monitor running at 1024x768. The quality is comparable to, or maybe even a bit better then DVD, however, when I look for them, I find the compression artifacts. They're not terrible, but they can be seen, even on my monitor.

An 1125 line analog system?! Hot damn would I like to see that!

Imagine if you will; you take an 8x8 block of pixels, scan them and compute a couple of numbers, thenn the receiver gets to reconstruct that block. Oversimplification if you will but that roughly covers what MPEG2 is doing. Then it is playing with your ears trying to send 5.1 sound when all you wanted was stereo.:sigh:

I had an eye opening experience today that reminded me what I've been knowing all along. The TV repair business in not going to heck in a handbasket, it's already gone there.

A guy that is marrying my Cousin's Granddaughter brought me a very late model 32" RCA LCD set for repair. He said it was dead. I told him up front that I was not making him any promises.

This set was obviously not built with repair in mind. To open it, you remove all the screws on the back and then the front pops off. To gain access to the boards, you remove several more screws holding the LCD panel. The cables going from the panel are not long enough to move the panel out of the way for easier service. After unplugging the LCD panel, the power supply and the main PCB assemblies can be removed. Both of these assemblies are inside a metal shield; so, the shield must be removed before the PCB's can be serviced.

After not finding anything wrong with my meter, I went online and checked for a parts list for the TV so I could see what new boards would cost. They will not sell pats for this TV! The only thing you can do is send the TV and $319 to RCA and they will send you another TV. The owner was not happy about this and I could tell that he didn't trust me. He said he'd come pick it up and throw it away. I asked him if he wanted me to dispose of it and he laughed and said he'd come pick it up. I told him that I had no use for it and was just offering to get rid of it so he wouldn't have to make a trip over here. He was supposed to have been here in a few minutes and that was 3 hours ago.

It's pretty sad that parts are not available for this set and all the company will do is swap out the set. I understand that the few TV shops left around here "take in" these sets; but, they charge a very high check out fee up front. That's probably the only way they can make any money, especially if more of these TV's are not being repaired.

your story to me confirms that the trend is just that. Disposable. we started with razors to shave, then the pens to write on and on up to small appliances for the kitchen. a blender costs 17 euros if it fails (any failure is) thrown in the trash because if they lead to repair costs you certainly more. And so well for the TV set, are constructed so that we can not repair, replace the limit across the board. sometimes the new card could cost, paradoxically, more than tv set new, or the component individuals broken, but is no longer on the market. notiza is these days in a cellular teleofono "disposable" to 27 euros. buy it already with the prepaid telephone traffic, as you have exhausted the telephon throw away and buy another. I do not know if the trend can serve society. certainly for big industrial fellow, which have high operating costs have to act in this way. Here where I live within a radius of one kilometre 4 shops of radio tv repair have closed . On the other hand, if a tv set live more than 50 years (see color TV CT 100 that even agios work beautifully) that would end industry, the work of the workers (few for the truth) and production? I am all 'ancient, I try to fix everything, but is a struggle very hard and I do not see positive outlets

your story to me confirms that the trend is just that. Disposable. we started with razors to shave, then the pens to write on and on up to small appliances for the kitchen. a blender costs 17 euros if it fails (any failure is) thrown in the trash because if they lead to repair costs you certainly more. And so well for the TV set, are constructed so that we can not repair, replace the limit across the board. sometimes the new card could cost, paradoxically, more than tv set new, or the component individuals broken, but is no longer on the market. notiza is these days in a cellular teleofono "disposable" to 27 euros. buy it already with the prepaid telephone traffic, as you have exhausted the telephon throw away and buy another. I do not know if the trend can serve society. certainly for big industrial fellow, which have high operating costs have to act in this way. Here where I live within a radius of one kilometre 4 shops of radio tv repair have closed . On the other hand, if a tv set live more than 50 years (see color TV CT 100 that even agios work beautifully) that would end industry, the work of the workers (few for the truth) and production? I am all 'ancient, I try to fix everything, but is a struggle very hard and I do not see positive outlets

Yeah, you'd don't see as many TV repair places, I know there is one just over the hill from me in Coraopolis, PA. (I live near Pittsburgh, PA). I've ordered parts from there for a VCR once. It's a shame everything is so disposable, I guess with the sophisticated IC's (integrated circuits) we have now, it is somewhat unavoidable but overall, we are still a wasteful society. I know myself, I'm watching the Olympics on my 1964 Sony B&W with a digital TV box tuner for HDTV. A lot of people think I'm weird for still using and fixing old stuff (when needed) but as long as it does what I need, I don't care. Plus I'm between jobs as this time so money is tight and even when I work, I don't have a lot to spend so the old stuff has to last.

BTW, welcome aboard!

was true, but you say more HR DIEMEN Spanish closed the plant where product line transformer for tv set (EHT) and PTC (for the purity of crt) are no longer manufactured, to say nothing of spare parts for the vcr. we are forced to fit from something very biggest of us,

About 5 years ago, a local TV repair shop, with a Zenith TV sign bearing the shop's name, was destroyed in a building fire. seems a plumber fixing a pipe (soldering it with a blow torch) inadvertently torched the place. Building was totaled, and was rebuilt. The TV repair shop owner must have taken the insurance money and decided that it wasn't worth the trouble to re-open. Probably he wasn't making enough money running it.

Place had a few 80's and 90's TV sets displayed in the front window. Was going to pay the place a visit, but never got around to it when it was open...

JHalphen, when you say you get obsolete ICs from China do they actualy work? I am desperate for an OKI MSM58141RS and cant find one anywhere.

I don't think Diemen did a smart move to discontinue their flyback production, since there are still A LOT of CRT sets in regular use here in europe, and the digital switchover won't happen before 2012

...

Well, they probably still have trainloads of NOS flybacks left in their warehouses!

I recently got 6 large boxes full of NOS flybacks for tube-based Italian B/W sets for free from a local repair shop!

I don't think Diemen did a smart move to discontinue their flyback production, since there are still A LOT of CRT sets in regular use here in europe, and the digital switchover won't happen before 2012

I am sorry but it is not. In addition to be small tc collector of color, running repairs for friends, TV, radio etc. .. so I'm in a good customer of a shop selling spare parts tv (the only remained in Florence). their own told me that the HR diemen ceased production of flyback transformers for CRT. Indeed, those will be until the Melchioni of milan them in stock. however told me that the ELDOR continues for now to produce them.:yes:

Hi Merrylander,

you wrote: "When you say you get obsolete ICs from China do they actually work? I am desperate for an OKI MSM58141RS and can't find one anywhere".

Well, a mixed reply. i've used the search services provided by http://digchip.com/ and gotten satisfactory service.

They forward your request to companies having the wanted part in inventory and you receive quotes. Problems occur when the seller has a minimum order often in the range of US $125.00 to US $250.00 and you only want 1-2-3 chips.

Some sellers will call you and often you can get sympathy & work out a deal.

Recent experience: i needed a Sony CX22011 IC (Power management) to repair an Indextron. I got a very good response and excellent English communication with company http://www.allnewsemi.com BUT i am not sure the 5 ICs purchased work.

The SOP chips have long, uncut leads and i don't know if they have been tested, untested, factory rejects, or just plain phony. (see pix)

I also used this site http://www.ic2ic.com to locate obsolete parts, here is a screen capture of typical results.

BTW, i am still searching for 1-3 genuine, working CX22011 ICs (data & pinout below).

Hope this helps, wishing you success on the search for the OKI chip,

Best Regards

J.Halphen

Tried all three but no result, thanks anyway.

When I assembled some Heathkit digital meters, they also came with those IC's with straight pins just like in your photo, in 1976.
The kit came with a little metal clamp thingy to "position" the pins to fit into the board.

i have been doing tv repair for 30 years and yes our days are very nunbered. there will be sort of a hobby for us fixing some sets and that will be far and few in between we need a huge warehouse and throw nothing away. my shop gets most of the business within a 40 mile radius and it is getting slower and slower. a new walmart supercenter opened 20 miles from us in a college town where is was born and it is not a big town. i counted 46 different plasma and lcd sets that were on display not including crt sets. they has a vizio 32" plasma with a hell of a picture on it for a little over $500.00 sanyo is the only set i would buy from walmart. we are a asc for sanyo and they are the absolute best out there now. they will take care of the customer and send us parts at no cost under warranty. steve

I don't know anybody that will repair a Vizio tv. We have to send all our returned sets back to California for repair. We have only had the Vizio 32 and 42 inch plasma sets for about 5 months now and their reliability is terriable. The only sets worse than them are the Polaroid sets we sell. The Vizio LCD sets seem only margianally better.
I try to steer people to the Sanyo, Sony, Samsung, and Sharp sets.

Bill R

A friend of mine who owns a TV shop claims he can't get parts for the Vizio and Polaroid sets. He says they do have a good picture when they work; but, you might as well throw them out when they die.

I know someone who recently bought a Vizio, against my advice. I'm anxious to see how long it last before it kicks the bucket.

I too think Sanyo is a good TV for the money. I can actually repair most of the Sanyo CRT sets and I have yet to see a broken Sanyo FP set. I don't think any have made their way into my friend's TV shop, either. I can't say that for the other brands.

I have a 3 year old APEX 32" flat screen CRT TV. The picture is not too shabby with S-Video for DVD or Composite from my Laserdisc, but the tuner is absolute crap. All the channels are grainier than hell, interference lines all over the place. Only the strongest stations on Cable come thru clearly. Also it's kinda bogus to hook up to my stereo, since it's a non-remote control reciever, and the TV has no variable outputs and no way to shut off the speakers.

I also have a 1989 RCA Colortrac-2000 26" TV. It generally outperforms the newer TV in all the inputs (S-Video and composite), but it has a killer tuner in it. Very sharp picture on all channels. It also has the bonus of having a variable output for audio line out, and the ability to turn off the speakers, so hooking it up to my old rig is great. Volume is just one button away with the TV.

My point? Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's crap. Unfortunately, if the old unit needs parts, I'm SOL, and if the new TV goes kafluey, I'm also SOL.

My point? Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's crap. Unfortunately, if the old unit needs parts, I'm SOL, and if the new TV goes kafluey, I'm also SOL.

You might have better luck finding parts for the old RCA than the Apex. Even if the parts are discontinued for your RCA, someone on here may be able to help you. I had a very early '90's 27" RCA Colortrak 2000 that was a donation from the TV shop. It worked very well after I replaced the flyback and the HOT. That set had a wide array of input/output jacks.

I agree that just because it's old doesn't mean it's crap. All of my "in use" TV's were made between '69 and '93. The '69 is a 23" tube-type Zenith B&W console. Most of my stereo equipment was made in the '70's or earlier. I also have many record players, radios, and fans that are decades old and still serve me well.

I don't know anybody that will repair a Vizio tv. We have to send all our returned sets back to California for repair. We have only had the Vizio 32 and 42 inch plasma sets for about 5 months now and their reliability is terriable. The only sets worse than them are the Polaroid sets we sell. The Vizio LCD sets seem only margianally better.
I try to steer people to the Sanyo, Sony, Samsung, and Sharp sets.

Bill R

i am using 2 vizio sets now that were returned. both had bad backlight inverters i fixed one inverter in the 30 inch and ordered a new inverter for the 20" the pix quality on the vizio,s is not great. steve

Modern electronics are not made to be repaired, unfortunately. Today's society is a throw-away society, if something breaks you toss it and buy a new one. This may change with so many people becoming more concerned about the environment however.

Thats a great idea about the warehouse...Maybe we can get a few members together and choose an ideal location for it. Realizing that not everything could possibly be saved, we can be rational and save only the rarest / best vintage TVs. Someone's gotta do it...This isn't like vintage cars...we are a rare bunch ourselves, and one day all of these sets will be landfill. :sigh:

Thats a great idea about the warehouse...Maybe we can get a few members together and choose an ideal location for it. Realizing that not everything could possibly be saved, we can be rational and save only the rarest / best vintage TVs. Someone's gotta do it...This isn't like vintage cars...we are a rare bunch ourselves, and one day all of these sets will be landfill. :sigh:

It's not just audio stuff, I have throwing away ANYTHING that's fixable. Freecycle is great for some stuff but not everybody uses it. It would be nice if every town had a warehouse where you could just drop stuff off, kind of like Goodwill I guess, but free.