View Full Version : Out of curiosity: first high-quality color tv?


Jon Noring
05-07-2008, 11:56 PM
I'm not a tv collector, and don't know much about the early sets except remembering watching tv on my aunt's Zenith from the very early 60's and being amazed. So with that backdrop, I'd like to ask a question...

Since the first "modern-era" color tv's were sold in the 1950's, I'm curious as to which brand/model of color tv, sold to consumers, is considered to be the first one to reasonably achieve the level of picture quality that we come to expect in today's typical CRT-based tv's. (We can consider models with the "roundie" picture tube -- it doesn't have to have the more modern rectangular shape we come to expect.)

From perusing various threads it appears the likely candidate would be some higher-end RCA or Zenith model, but of course would like to get the perspectives of the experts here. (I'm also curious if a tube-based model is offered, or if we have to wait for a solid state model.)

Thanks!

Jon

Sandy G
05-08-2008, 05:23 AM
Actually, the CT-100 RCA from '54- the first one- is capable of astoundingly good pictures when properly set up, as are most of the roundies. All these were tube-based-you didn't see transistorised color sets til the late '60s, & even way into the '70s, a lot of them were "hybrid"- primarily solid state, w/3 or 4 tubes in certain circuits.

RetroHacker
05-08-2008, 08:11 AM
The picture quality on even the very early sets can be astounding. The CT-100 has a legendary good picture, thanks to it's wide gamut color phosphors and superior color demodulation. That would have been in 1954.

But... these early sets were complicated and finikey. From what I've heard, perfect convergence and purity was difficult on the CT-100. The 15GP22 was an excellent tube for what it was, but it was the first of it's kind. It was dim compared to later tubes as well.

It depends on what you mean by "high quality". The CT-100 chassis has better color demodulation circuits than almost all modern sets (they changed to a cheaper, easier demodulation circuit on the CTC-4) But, these early sets weren't super reliable. When new, the CT-100 would have needed to be maintained regularly to keep in good performance. Same with some other early color sets. Huge numbers of tubes, piles and piles of paper capacitors - the components at the time were being pushed to their limits to get the glorious color picture out of a set.

The CTC-2B set uses pretty much the same chassis as the CT-100, but with a newer 21" tube. This would be capable of a larger, brighter picture, better convergence and purity, and still have the wideband color demodulation circuits. Probably a high water mark in terms of technical aspects. I know of one AK'er who has rebuilt one of these chassis, and has it producing an amazing picture. But, once again, when new, this set would have been hard to keep running for a long time. Excellent, high quality picture - but not "set it and forget it", it would still require regular repairs.

For "high quality" in terms of excellent picture and minimum downtime, I would probably look ahead to some of the later round sets. Zenith entered into the color market a bit later, and built sets with their legendary build quality. By the time Zenith got into the game, plastic capacitors were appearing, components in general were a bit better, and color TV was becoming mature. I'd say that for reliability, one of these old Zeniths would be hard to beat.

RCA has some good sets in this period too - the CTC-15 was a good, solid chassis. 16 as well. Probably not as reliable as the Zenith, but still, pretty good.

Remember - when color first came out, it was really, really expensive. The early sets are built extremely well. But the components that they had then just weren't as stable as modern parts. The paper caps in the CT-100 and similar sets were OK when they were new - but nowhere near as good as the factory capacitors in, say, the CTC-15. An early set rebuilt with modern components is going to be very reliable. I can't say the same for when the set was new. TV failure/repair was pretty common back then - and the color sets hd a lot more things to break.

So... it depends on what you're looking for when you say "high quality"...

-Ian

Eric H
05-08-2008, 10:38 AM
For me it was Sony hands down, I know that may be blasphemy to some but the Trinitron was a revolution IMO.

Sandy G
05-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Eric's right. The Trintron picture was like the difference between "lightning" and "lightning bug" compared to the other color sets of the day.

ChuckR
05-08-2008, 02:18 PM
Not to be contrary, however, I wouldn't be surprised it the 1950 CBS field sequential public broadcasts provided the first high quality color television available to the public. From what I have been told by those who saw the system, it was very impressive (color-wise, not the mechanics) as vivid as technicolor. Considering the 405 lines, 144 fields per second display rate, it was providing a lot of visual information. Just a thought from an occasional poster.

Jon Noring
05-08-2008, 02:34 PM
Not to be contrary, however, I wouldn't be surprised it the 1950 CBS field sequential public broadcasts provided the first high quality color television available to the public. From what I have been told by those who saw the system, it was very impressive (color-wise, not the mechanics) as vivid as technicolor. Considering the 405 lines, 144 fields per second display rate, it was providing a lot of visual information. Just a thought from an occasional poster.

The CBS test used a different standard than the one finally settled upon in late 1953, the NTSC color.

I guess I wasn't clear in my original message where I wanted to focus on the NTSC color television receivers, the ones actually sold to consumers.

Pete Deksnis
05-08-2008, 02:38 PM
Not to be contrary, however, I wouldn't be surprised it the 1950 CBS field sequential public broadcasts provided the first high quality color television available to the public. No doubt so. Although the color space of the 1951 CBS Color system is a bit less than 1953 NTSC system, and the CBS system depends critically on the characteristics of the color filters used, it nonetheless provides a stunning, bright and, of course, perfectly converged color image. At the just completed ETF convention, the filter differences effect could be observed on the museum's operating side-by-side NTSC color wheel receivers.

oldtvman
05-08-2008, 03:59 PM
I think that we've seen the results of some of these historic treasurers from Pete and others showing just how good the picture could be on some of these classics. Although I haven't been able to get over to the ETF convention, the photo's from those sets is amazing, especially the CBS line sequential sets. As I've said in many earlier threads, I think the engineers did their homework on these sets, especially considering the technology available in that time period. Color almost seemed to be out of place back then, the problems is most people never got to enjoy the programming due to lack of sets and the ones that were out there weren't properly set up for the most part.

stromberg6
05-08-2008, 05:42 PM
I agree that the CTC-2 and 2-B were excellent from a circuitry point of view. 15's and 16's are also a pleasure to watch/own. Zenith made sure that its' first color sets were reliable, too.
The Goldmark/CBS system also had much to recommend it, except for the obvious shortcomings.
I have worked on/restored a number of early chassis, and the earliest one I found to be the most stable, while providing a very good picture was the CTC-7. It was the first to use wire-wound pots in the convergence circuits, and if you had one without the $$#@&^%* wax caps over the -Y amp sockets, the colors would not "flash" (double suffix letter "7" chassis used mylars, thank goodness). We used a CTC-7B as a daily watcher for 4 years in the early '70's, until I got a good deal on a mint CTC-44 in a beautiful Danish-modern walnut cabinet.
Planning to get that CTC-7, which is a mahogany Anderson, a 1955 Motorola (with the 21AX conversion), and a CTC-5 table model Special, all with good CRT's, out of storage in June. That should keep me busy for a while, and drain the bank account for caps!
Kevin

Sandy G
05-08-2008, 06:08 PM
Set-up was vitally important in the early sets, & I think a lot of the times, it was neglected. Another thing, around here, anyway, was the very real problem of lousy signal-I remember we got 3 stations before cable, NONE of 'em very good-Remember when an airplane would fly over & wreck the picture ? A lot of the bad signal problems went away when we got cable TV in the mid '60s, until then, lots of folks had NO idea what kind of picture their TV could actually produce in the 1st place...

Brian
05-08-2008, 06:34 PM
While not a vintage tele person, I had in my first life the chance to see daily the tech bench at my father's store and color sets rotated in and out so frequently I stayed with black and white until coming across a Sony KV-1201 (I think that was the model number). This was a defining set as it was reliable and Sony did an excellent job with QC. A year after it came out I visited a Motorola new product party and the engineers there talking about the new units mentioned after a few brews that the marketing department set a development requirement for the r&d and production engineers that the line had to be as stable as the Sonys. The Triniton set up and siting next to others also set up was like watching an led and a worn put crt next to it.

andy
05-08-2008, 08:35 PM
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bgadow
05-08-2008, 10:30 PM
In the early days there were not many real "junk" color sets on the market. I suspect the fifties Motorola sets and probably the late fifties Westinghouse rectangular would fit in that category. Everything else was fairly high-end. Zenith set a new standard in the sixties with sets which could match RCA for picture quality while outlasting them on build quality. Now, I never did much with Sony color sets and never really liked them for some reason...so I tend to look at the 70s Zenith line as being a standard for the world. That was how a color TV should have been built.

vintagecollect
05-11-2008, 01:20 AM
...

vintagecollect
05-11-2008, 01:30 AM
To me , the early sony Trinis are the First modern TV, The clarity and sharpness can't be matched. I was so impressed with first two I got, I saved several more early trinitron sets. Not much interest generated when I posted two in the classifieds. The gun opening is larger, and the CRT uses a screen instead of a mask. You can drive these sets into saturation and color will try to stay well defined with image detail too. Info from a EARLY trini ad explaing CRT& from Sony company history web site. I think the newer trinitron crt tubes may be used as a replacement for older sets? Not many saved from 1968 to 1971.

:tears:

Carmine
05-11-2008, 03:35 PM
From what I've heard on here, the early trinitron tubes weren't long for this world. I also think their small screen size rules them out of the "family use" category.

I've used 30-year old Zenith sets (in the 90s) as daily watchers with no re-capping/restoration. The pictures produced would be acceptable to 95% of average TV viewers.

I would say that 4-tube Chromacolor sets deserve mention, as well as the first solid-state Chromacolor II sets.

Brian
05-11-2008, 05:27 PM
The Triniton tubes were quite long lived. In fact, my father who was a supplier of tubes to the repair shops in the NH seacoast area never had to lay in a stock of them while sales of the tele were quite high. As for being a family set a godly number of my friends had them though only 12" sets as their only color sets and also had their b&w sets that were older. By the time the b&w sets were replaced Trinitrons were being offered in larger sizes and were replacing the b&w sets while the little Trinitrons were migrated into the parents' bedroom or living room while the main set that would have in the past been in the living room were moving to the newly emerging family rooms.

KentTeffeteller
05-11-2008, 06:24 PM
Hi,

First superb color TV picture: RCA CT-100
First excellent reliable color TV picture: 1962 Zenith roundie
First super-reliable superb color TV picture: 1970 Sony Trinitron or early to middle period Zenith ChromaColor

Smile and grins watching excellent programs on one, Priceless!