Got my digital set top digital TV converter box coupons today. They look like credit cards, with a magnetic strip on the back. Went to a Best Buy and used a coupon to get the $40 off an "Insignia" brand box. With the 7% NJ sales tax, I paid about $25. Model NS-DXA1

My review of this box: :thmbsp: :thmbsp:

It actually works quite well. My location is Oradell NJ, exit 165 off the parkway, 14 miles due north of the Empire State Building. It picked up all the local NYC digital stations with just an UHF hoop antenna (the kind that came with vacuum tube TVs with UHF in the mid 60's). And when connected to an outside roof UHF corner reflector, it gets channel 55 from Riverhead NY, and channel 58 (really on VHF 8) from central NJ. That's very good, considering that I'm using a UHF only antenna on the box.

I don't see any evidence of the front end getting overloaded.

The box comes with a remote control that can be programmed to turn the NTSC TV set on or off (if that TV has a remote eyeball). And you can adjust the volume up or down (inside the box itself, not the TV's volume directly) with the box's remote. For once they got it right. This volume control adjusts the RCA left and right output jacks and the volume level on the locally generated TV RF out.

That's good that you got the coupon...still waiting here! I got the DVD recorder with built-in digital tuner for home but would like the standalone convertors for the barn, etc.

Still waiting here too... I applied the same day that the link was posted here. Hopefully mine might come soon!

I hear that they EXPIRE in March, and that many of them will not be mailed out 'til after they expire. That was on the news last week. Typical government tomfoolery.

Charles

My understanding was that they would expire 90 days after the issue date and they would not be issued until the boxes became available.

The ability to control volume through the box is a nice feature. It would also be nice if the box had a switched AC outlet like the old cable boxes did.

My understanding was that they would expire 90 days after the issue date and they would not be issued until the boxes became available.

The ability to control volume through the box is a nice feature. It would also be nice if the box had a switched AC outlet like the old cable boxes did.

I hope mine come soon too, they better not come expired! and yes I thought that outlet would be nice myself... hopefully one of the companies will put one in their box.

Monday, I borrowed a Samsung ATSC converter box from someone.... It receives digital, and outputs in standard, or HD 720 and 1080i. I wonder if the cheapie boxes will also have HD output, so that you can use them with HD-capable TVs, or will they just have a standard output? Additionally, I wonder if there will be a Channel 3 RF output on any of the boxes? If not, we'll need the converter box, PLUS an RF modulator.

I still think it would be fun for us TV collectors to set up a string of converter boxes' each one tuned to a local channel, and each one piped and trunked through RF modulators so that we can just connect one cable to the old TVs, and use the original tuner!

Charles

To be coupon-eligible, boxes must have the following outputs: baseband composite NTSC; baseband left and right audio; channel 3/4 RF (only mono audio required). They must NOT have high definition or component outputs. They must NOT include extra-cost features like PVR hard drives. They may have a smart antenna jack, although that may be compatible with only a particular brand of antenna for the "smart" functions to work. The gov has been pushing for boxes to go to RF feed-through when power is off, but that was not specified in the beginning, so many early boxes do not have it designed in.

Edit: they MAY have S-video in addition to composite output.

To be coupon-eligible, boxes must have the following outputs: baseband composite NTSC; baseband left and right audio; channel 3/4 RF (only mono audio required). They must NOT have high definition or component outputs. They must NOT include extra-cost features like PVR hard drives. They may have a smart antenna jack, although that may be compatible with only a particular brand of antenna for the "smart" functions to work. The gov has been pushing for boxes to go to RF feed-through when power is off, but that was not specified in the beginning, so many early boxes do not have it designed in.

Edit: they MAY have S-video in addition to composite output.

That's good news... Thanks for the info!

Charles

The Wal-Mart Magnavox/Funai doesn't have S-video.

I got my second box, a "Digitalstream" brand at Radio Shack. It's slightly less sensitive (approx 5 dB) than the Insignia box. Otherwise it has the same features and remote control features.

My cupons arrived today and expire 5/22/08 so it is abound 90 days from the time they were mailed.
Mike

Monday, I borrowed a Samsung ATSC converter box from someone.... It receives digital, and outputs in standard, or HD 720 and 1080i. I wonder if the cheapie boxes will also have HD output, so that you can use them with HD-capable TVs, or will they just have a standard output? Additionally, I wonder if there will be a Channel 3 RF output on any of the boxes? If not, we'll need the converter box, PLUS an RF modulator.

I still think it would be fun for us TV collectors to set up a string of converter boxes' each one tuned to a local channel, and each one piped and trunked through RF modulators so that we can just connect one cable to the old TVs, and use the original tuner!

Charles

RF modulators are REQUIRED for a box to qualify for the coupon program

HD output, even RGB DISQUALIFIES a box from the coupon program...

S-video output doesn't disqualify a box, but the boxes I have seen so far just have rf out and the usual red white and yellow rca jacks...

How does the signal appear on a square tube?
Can it be switched between letterbox and
anamorphic, for those with vertical compression?

According to the manual for the Magnavox, it will do that in "full" mode (see page 20). The Magnavox web site lists QAM as a feature. Can anyone confirm whether or not it really can receive QAM? It's not mentioned in the manual. QAM would allow it to receive local HD channel on cable.

http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100MW9.pdf

I wonder if any of these boxes have digital audio, S-video, RGB, or component video accessable from inside the box. I would love to know which chip is doing the video decoding.

Here's a thought thinking outside the box (pun intended)... Is anyone going to keep an un-cashed coupon as a collectors item?

Charles

I don't think the coupon would actually be surrendered upon use??...as far as I understand it it's a magnetic card like a gift card and the value would just be decremented from it.

Here's a thought thinking outside the box (pun intended)... Is anyone going to keep an un-cashed coupon as a collectors item?

Charles

When I bought my Magnavox at Walmart they kept the coupon/card. It was clear they were not familiar with the procedure, but it made sense since it is a one-time use device.

According to the manual for the Magnavox, it will do that in "full" mode (see page 20). The Magnavox web site lists QAM as a feature. Can anyone confirm whether or not it really can receive QAM? It's not mentioned in the manual. QAM would allow it to receive local HD channel on cable.

http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100MW9.pdf

I wonder if any of these boxes have digital audio, S-video, RGB, or component video accessable from inside the box. I would love to know which chip is doing the video decoding.

QAM sounds like text mistakenly carried over from other product.

Some (perhaps all) units use a "system on a chip" to keep costs down, which does a direct downmixed decode to stereo audio even if the source is 5.1, and also has no HD component video signals brought to pin connections.

Still waiting on coupons here....:scratch2:


Are the Insignia boxes decent? Have not heard great things about the Insignia electronics :scratch2:

Funny that I should be reading this thread today. I was sitting at my desk wondering when the coupons would arrive and they were waiting for me in my mailbox. Woohoo.

:thmbsp::banana:

Now I am ready for the digital wave! :boring:

Now I am ready for the digital wave! :boring:


The idea that doesn't seem to be getting out is that digital is *already* here. Get yourself set up with cable, satellite or converter box, and when the analog gets turned off, you won't even notice.

This is what we should be telling our friends, grandmothers, etc., especially if we are the ones they will call on after the analog shutoff - get them preset and avoid the hassles. OH - and they should save the instructions on how to channel-scan, since some stations will change frequencies.

My "coupons" arrived today, with an expiration date of May 28 The mailman delivered them at the same time I was talking to a friend who called to tell me his coupons arrived too.

I don't know that I care...I just got rid of my two analog TV sets and acquired a potentially unrepairable one in the process...so I'm STILL stuck with a TV that I don't/can't use...I tink i'm just going to bite the bullet on this one, and buy myself either a flat panel or a projector and be done with it...for the record I did request two of the cupons though. Still haven't received them.

The idea that doesn't seem to be getting out is that digital is *already* here. Get yourself set up with cable, satellite or converter box, and when the analog gets turned off, you won't even notice.

This is what we should be telling our friends, grandmothers, etc., especially if we are the ones they will call on after the analog shutoff - get them preset and avoid the hassles. OH - and they should save the instructions on how to channel-scan, since some stations will change frequencies.

Yes, get the word out. I know it hasn't sunk in for my mom yet.

Also that the coupons have an expire date 90 days after its mailed!

Even I was thinking I had til 2009 some time to use the coupons.

When I bought my Magnavox at Walmart they kept the coupon/card. It was clear they were not familiar with the procedure, but it made sense since it is a one-time use device.

They kept mine at WalMart too... I asked if they had to keep it, but didn't debate them on it. I might spend the other one elsewhere and try again. We have another set of coupons for the Dallas house, so I still will keep at least one coupon for a collectible. Or maybe an unopened envelope of two? A definite TV historical piece.

Charles

I don't think the coupon would actually be surrendered upon use??...as far as I understand it it's a magnetic card like a gift card and the value would just be decremented from it.

I got 2 coupons. Each coupon may only be used once. It is not decremented like a gift card or they could have just sent one. I imagine they call it a coupon on purpose so people will not be surprised if it had to be surrendered like any other clip out coupon.

It makes sense so sneaky ... erm ... clever customers and scammers don't use it more than once and sell them.

Does anyone know if the store gets some kind of federal subsidy? That would be another reason the store would need the coupon as proof of being sold. As a taxpayer I wouldn't want to be ripped off by scammers.

[Update: I got 2 Zeniths from Radio Shack today and they returned both my cards.]

I got my 2 coupons and decided to get one insignia box yesterday. I have cable at home and I didn't really need the box. BUT-- I tried it out and love it! I had the most basic of comcast cable, and decided to drop cable and go pure off air. I am loosing discovery channel, but I can manage. I can't believe the difference, from NTSC signal to the digital station.

Later yesterday afternoon I bought another insingia box. With a cheap 9 dollar antenna I get all the digital stations. No issues at all. I love my old TV's and with the insignia's screen ratio selector I can select "cropped" and I loose those darn black bars at the top and bottom. Video quality is great too, even on my B/W tube sets

Makes my color roundie look good, not having those black bars! Fills the whole screen. So I am not worried at all about the switchover next year. Our old sets will still work fine, as long as we leave them on channel 3.

Best Regards,
Matt Davala

Ok, so the obvious question; where/how the hell do you get a coupon? Do you have to request it? Is there a website? Is there a special chant?

Never mind...

https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx

Damn it, you'd think there would be just a little bit more information about this. A pretty piss-poor job so far, IMO.

Ok, so the obvious question; where/how the hell do you get a coupon? Do you have to request it? Is there a website? Is there a special chant?

Here's the website.

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

There's also a toll free number.

By the way, I bought two Zeniths today at Radio Shack and they returned my coupons, they just swiped the magnetic strip. They also asked for name, address, phone#.

Here's what consumerreports.org had to say: (http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2008/01/dtv-converter-b.html)

To get your coupons, you can call a toll-free number, 1-888-DTV-2009, and give them your name and address. You can also visit a website, www.dtv2009.gov, to apply. The last day to request coupons is March 31, 2009, but there's no guarantee they’ll be available at that late date if funding for the program runs out. The coupons are good for 90 days, and the federal government is supposedly timing coupon distribution to coincide with retail availability of the DTV converters. Many leading retail chains, including Best Buy, Circuit City, Kmart, RadioShack, Sam's Club, Sears, Target, and Wal-Mart, have been certified to participate in the coupon program.

Never mind...

https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx

Damn it, you'd think there would be just a little bit more information about this. A pretty piss-poor job so far, IMO.

I know my mom hadn't heard about it. She only uses rabbit ears and has had to deal with poor reception, sound and limited stations.

I just got the Zenith installed today and now she can actually see the shows and not futz with the antenna to get sound without buzzing. And more channels!

So if it looks like there may be concerns if funding runs out it sounds like it is good to get them early. And you can actually enjoy the benefits now.

So which brand is the best quality box?:scratch2:

So which brand is the best quality box?:scratch2:
It depends on what is available and features you feel is important.
As we approach Analog Doomsday 2009. I'm sure there will be more reviews.

But here's a link to recent consumer reports review of Insignia, Magnavox, Zenith
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/televisions/non-digital-tvs/digital-converter-boxes/digital-tv-converter-boxes-first-look-3-08/overview/digital-tv-converter-boxes-first-look.htm

It depends on what is available and features you feel is important.
As we approach Analog Doomsday 2009. I'm sure there will be more reviews.

But here's a link to recent consumer reports review of Insignia, Magnavox, Zenith
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/televisions/non-digital-tvs/digital-converter-boxes/digital-tv-converter-boxes-first-look-3-08/overview/digital-tv-converter-boxes-first-look.htm


Thanks terra1!

I picked up an insignia box a couple weeks ago. I am pleased for the most part. However, I get a little intercarrier buzz in the audio, which I do not get on analog OTA stations, nor do I get this on other sources of input (vcr, dvd). Quad and buzz controls have no effect, it is an IF alignment issue. Does any one else experience this?
I use the box on a good working 1970 zenith color set with the solid state IF sub chassis. I havnt looked into it further, but if this is a common problem to all sets of this age, I'll have to touch up the 39.75 trap on all my sets when 2009 comes around.

I tried my Digitalstream box on a '77 19" XL-100 and I get the buzz. I do not notice the buzz on analog OTA TV.

Either the video level is a little too high on the box, or their RF modulators are poor quality. You might have better luck using an external RF modulator. This would also make it easy to reduce the video level.

I have the Zenith, but I don't get any buzz.

Last night it was raining and I got some intermittant signal loss in the basement tv. Occasional pixelation.
I switched to a different antenna but I don't know if that was it or just improvement in the original signal. There was no problem on the upstairs tv. The basement tv does get fewer channels found.

When I first set up I noticed on the upper channels the audio sometimes seems out of sync with images - like voices are dubbed, but after awhile it seems to match.

And sometimes the digital image seems just a little cold and jerky compared to smoother analog.

I can picture it now. People will wax nostalgic about the old days of analog being more tube-like versus digital like LP vs CDs! :lmao:

I can picture it now. People will wax nostalgic about the old days of analog
I heard the other day that LPs are having a bit of a resurgence. Not only do some people think they sound different, but the cover is big enough that you can actually see the art :-)

As for digital TV, one difference I've noticed is when you have a weak station.

On an analog TV, the picture may be fuzzy or have ghosts, but it's always there. Using the digital tuner on my DVD recorder, a weak digital signal may break up (pixellate) or freeze, or drop out completely.

The digital signal looks great at other times, of course, but the dropping out part is annoying. On this tuner, it gives you a no-signal message and then you have to grab the remote and push a button to make it try again.

I haven't bought a converter box yet (coupons are supposedly in the mail), so I can't vouch for what they do with a weak signal.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

I picked up one of the Insignia boxes over the weekend. {Still haven't got my damn coupons yet}I get a slight buzz but nothing major, only when a really bright white screen is present. I am currently using it on a '67 Zenith 23" with the 20X1C38 chassis. I like the box but I sure will miss the good 'ol analog when it's gone:tears:. I have it hooked to a GIANT Winegard antenna with a 28db on mast booster sitting atop my garage. I also use the antenna with analog too.

I picked up one of the Insignia boxes over the weekend. {Still haven't got my damn coupons yet}I get a slight buzz but nothing major, only when a really bright white screen is present.

That's what happens if the video level is a little too high. White parts of the picture is when the RF amplitude is at minimum. And the modulator could be going to zero RF amplitude if the input video level is too hot. The buzz happens to the sound because the TV set intercarrier system stops working when the picture carrier is forced to zero by the whites that are too hot. As the 4.5Mhz sound IF disappears momentairly, and the FM detector produces a spike at each white spot. As the scan rate of the picture is about 60Hz vertical, those white spot dropouts repeat at 60Hz, making that buzz sound.

After the warrenty period is up, crack open the box and see if you can find the video line feeding the modulator, and add some resistance in series, or to ground, to reduce the amplitude a little. But you'd have to be sure that doing that doesn't mess up any DC biasing.

A set from the early post war days that uses completely separate sound and video IF strips won't have this problem. But otherwise such a set is hard to tune a TV channel on.

Got my box, a little bit of magnetic field leakage prevents the placement directly on top of my set:

Ok, I finally got my coupons a few days ago, and after Jury Duty yesterday I picked up a digital stream converter from Radio Shack...

Since I already have some repaired Panasonic dvd recoders - dmr-ez27, this will be a review of the digital stream box instead of an entire DTV critique.

First the box does not pass antenna signals through to the output connector, even with power off and the rf modulator off, the modulator can be turned on and off by menu. The channel selection on the box is smoother and faster than the dvd recorder, and channel lockup is faster too (surfing anybody??). Setup was a breeze and most of the factory defaults are spot on. The remote training worked great (hold down a button and press another to sequence through the recognized tv list until the tv shuts off) and gives on/off and volume for the tv set, as well as internal 20 step volume control of the box output (to rf OR the rca plugs).

It was fun to see the channel search going, as it displayed an ongoing list of the traditional tv channel 2-69(?) and what the num-num designation of the multicast signals it found on that channel. It ignored analog channels, as it should.

The convienence features of channel selection work nicely on the remote (or inside the box?). prev favorite etc... 2 will default to 2.1 etc...

The aspect ratio stuff was left at factory default, and was great. The "worst" I have gotten was the single top and bottom letterboxing, as contrasted with the dvd recorder and the chaotic letterboxing IT does...

The detractions: minor...

The remote has 4 dimples or feet on the botton and if the buttons on the edge like volume up/down or channel up/down are pressed with it sitting on a flat surface, the tilts up using the feet as a furclum. 30 seconds with a box cutter solved THAT...

There is a stray magnetic field present even when the box is "turned off" that was noticible as a red color blob on the blue screen the tv displays when there isn't a usable signal coming in. So the converter shouldn't be set right on top of a modern set without a lot of space between the top of the tube and the top of the set. I'm looking for a sheet of mu-metal for mine...

The remote forgets the tv type when the batteries are removed... no 30 second grace period that I could find.

All in all this box is much easier to use, more fun and less aggravating than using the panasonic dvd recorder as an atsc digital tuner front end, and I may just change over to more of these converters for viewing as opposed to recording OTA. Just feed it into your vcr to record and there's no worry about any digital copy protection (on the dvd recorder, IF certain copy protect bits are set in a particular program, then the dvd recorder will record them ONLY if DVD-RAM media is used) and the vhs playback is great with the strong clean signal the box provides... no HINT of any analog copy protection like macrovision or whatever coming OUT of the converter..... (so far)

Of course, for unattended recording the converter is stuck on one channel, until somebody comes up with a solution to change the channel.

The coupons came today! My 'ol lady just called and said they came. Should I get another Insignia or get something else? Any input would be great. I've heard good about the Maggie {Funai} box, but I looked at them and I think they look cheap with their plastic case and power switch instead of a button. The Insignia has the intercarrier buzz but it has a very well made {as far as chineese crap goes} cabinet and remote. Zenith {LG} box maybe?