Went to the old local TV shop today. Wasn't really expecting to find anything that I hadn't seen before, but I did! I went digging around in an area that I hadn't looked in before, and found some unique color sets! I was really excited because we have recently been talking a lot about "the lost years" and Motorolas.

This one is a 1957 Motorola 21CT2M (Chassis TS905). It's in Sams 371-5. Unfortunately, the top isn't in the greatest of shape from sitting in that old attic for the past 30+ years, and some of the insides are somewhat rusty. It's not as bad as some of the other sets I've brought home from this shop. (My Sylvania HaloLight was in the same condition, and I had to put in MANY hours of work to make it run and look nice)

It looks like there was a failure at the yoke. In the photos, you'll see ash in the yoke area and it's also all over the power supply chassis below.

This has a 30 tube chassis, and the 21AXP22A (which tested very good). It has a unique looking switch assembly for the blue lateral magnet. According to Sam, part of this switch is for blue size. What is blue size? Never heard of that one before.

Whether it's a TV or radio, I have always felt that Motorolas had a style that set them apart from all other brands. This one is no exception. That big honkin' channel selector is pretty cool looking. It also has a neat push-button power switch, although it looks like it does not work because someone installed a little toggle switch on the top left rear of the cabinet. I was disappointed at first that the pencil box was missing, but once I got it home I found it inside the cabinet.

The cabinet has that cheesy fake wood stuff on it. The sides are in okay shape, but the stuff is peeling off the top. It could be fixed up with a piece of veneer I suppose.

This set will have to sit for a while before I can pull the chassis. I have too many others out there that are waiting in line for attention. Hopefully I'll be able to do something with it, but not today.

Close up of controls

the insides

An apparent failure

Next to the Motorola was another unique set. This one is a Philco. It's still up there at the shop because we only had room in the van for the Motor, and it's pouring down rain all today. I'll have to get this one home another day. I don't remember the model number, but I did get a couple of photos. I am guessing this one to be a 1965 or 66 model. The cabinet on this one is a little better than the Motorola.

I don't know who made this chassis... it's definitely not an RCA clone. I wish I could have got better pictures of it, but it was really dark in there and crowded. The power transformer looked a bit smaller than what we would normally find in them.

There is a feature on this set that I found to be very unique in a television. This set actually has a fine-tuner indicator like the ones found in Dynaco tuners! On the front above the channel selector, you can see where it says "tuning eye". From the inside, you can see the indicator tube above and forward of the tuner.

I dug through my Sams index to see if I could find a schematic to match up with this set, but my Sams stop at 730. I did find some listings for Philcos in the 1965-66 range, but that goes beyond my folders. There is a 769-3, 827-2, and 835-2. I am thinking that one of these might be the match to this particular roundie. I wish I had written down the model number instead of relying on my memory! If anyone has these folders, could you take a peek to see if any of them match up to what I have in these photos. A sure give-away will be the tuning indicator.

Tuning indicator window above the channel selector

You can see the indicator tube in the top middle of the photo. It is similar to the EM84.

The Chassis. One other thing I noticed... on the tube diagram to the left, there are diagrams and instructions for setting the convergence.

Awesome finds! Especially the Motorola, That baby is rare as heck!

Great finds Charlie!!

The Motorola is so cool looking, I really love the RGB on the channel selector, it let everyone know YOU had a color TV even with it off :D

I think you'll find the ash around the yoke is actually just deteriorated plastic.
Whatever they made yoke covers out of back then was really crappy and it rots away with time and heat.

Eric

Originally posted by Eric H
I think you'll find the ash around the yoke is actually just deteriorated plastic.
Whatever they made yoke covers out of back then was really crappy and it rots away with time and heat.

I hope you are right. i recall someone in the past telling me about the plastic that deteriorated that way... making one think there might have been a fire! :eek: Was out looking at it further, and didn't really notice anything else in that area to be "burned" or black. I wonder... before the plastic deteriorated, what was it holding together? There's so much of it on the chassis. Obviously something around that yoke isn't in the same position as it was 50 years ago!

It's a shame that the sets in this old shop are in such condition. Time, humidity, heat, and dirt have been hard on these sets in that attic. It's not so bad that it can't be fixed... it's just gonna take a lot of time, effort, and patience. I really suck when it comes to patience! Right now, I'm cleaning the knobs and pencil box with a toothbrush. It's already starting to look better!

Charlie,
That's some attic. Can't be easy moving those sets downstairs. That Motorola is a rare one. There is an ad for that very set in the May 28, 1956 Life Magazine. I think this was the last Motorola 21" color for several years.

...m.

Steve,

Unfortunately, most of the sets in this attic are in far worse condition than this one. From what I can tell, these sets have been sitting up in this dingy old attic since the early-mid 70's. Some of the sets are turned upside-down, some have major cabinet damage, and most of them have rusty or corroded insides. It really is a graveyard. The ones I've brought home are the better ones that have some hope for them. Some of the sets I brought home were so far gone that I just pulled them to the curb for the trash man.

From what I understand, there used to be a lot more sets in the warehouse section of this shop. The owner told me that most of the sets downstairs were roundie color sets of all makes and models. About three years ago, the fire marshall stopped by and did not like the looks of all those sets in the warehouse. Being that they had been there for so long, the fire marshall said they had to go or he would shut the shop down. So, they cleared them out... all of them. About half of the sets in the attic were cleared out as well. I'm glad they didn't get these last ones.

I kinda doubt there were ever any CT100's in this shop. I don't think our NBC station started broadcasting in color right away. CT100's were probably off the sales floors by the time we got color here.

In any case, it has been neat going through this attic. I just wish the sets were in better condition.

Andy,

I might get a chance to go back on monday. If so, I will bring my camera along. But trust me... it's not going to be pretty! :eek:

...

I've wanted to spend more time there, but my last couple of vacations have been pretty busy. Christmas holidays, buying property, several dentist office visits, and just about anything else you can think of has kept me from getting down there to the shop. Usually, it seems my visits to the shop are decided at the last minute. Can't seem to plan anything!

Also, knowing the poor condition of the sets involved sometimes discourages me from visiting. During the summer, it's a hot muther up in that attic! Can't last up there for very long.

There is a decent size stairway leading up into the attic, but to get the sets thru the main part of the shop is a real bitch! Then there are certain places that you have to be careful because the flooring is falling through. I am always afraid of knocking something over that the owner might be working on. You'd have to see this place to believe it, It really is a big mess.

I'll ring in, too-great finds! The yoke on my CTC-5 has that "flaky" look but has been fine. One of my favorite sets that I got rid of was a rectangular Philco-Ford that must have been just a little newer than your set. Similiar styling & chassis, but no eye. A great performer. I also came across such a pile once, an old farmhouse full of mostly bw sets that had not been touched in 30+ years. I saved what sets I could but in the end mostly just had to grab knobs & tubes because what else do you do with 20 bw consoles from 1960?

Due to what I discovered today, I wasn't sure where to post this. As you read on, you'll find out what I mean!

All weekend long, that Philco roundie kept going thru my mind. At first glance, it just seems like your typical 60's roundie set. But for some reason, I kept thinking there was more to it than just that.

I knew I wouldn't have time to go back to the shop today, so I was able to talk some friends into going to get it for me. I don't have a truck, so I always have to con someone into going anyway! The set arrived a little while ago. We got it into my garage, and then I started looking it over. Couldn't see much of it the other day because it was in that dark attic with only a flashlight.

I was looking at the controls, and noticed it had two S's with some kind of emblem between them. Didn't really pay it too much mind at first because I was more focussed on the missing control door below it.

Then, I did a quick peak of the chassis (seeing mostly dirt). After a quick glance, I thought it looked like some tubes might be missing, but since this chassis didn't look familiar to me, I didn't give it a second thought.

The set was found with the CRT socket hanging, so I assumed that the CRT might be out. Did a quick check with the ohm meter, and found the filaments of the 21FBP to be open. I took sandpaper to the pins to see if that would help, but still nothin. Okay, the CRT is toast. No big deal.

Then I looked for the chassis number so I could look it up. Chassis # 19MT79... Sams 1024-2. Wait a minute... folder 1024??? That number seems a bit high! My Sams only go to 730 for the most part, so I knew I didn't have it. In the index, it shows folder 1024 to be somewhere in early to mid-1969. Now, I realize that it might be as long as 6 to 12 months after a model comes out before Sam publishes a Photofact for it, but 1969? As far as we know, it seems that roundies lasted till 1966... or maybe 67 at the very latest. Could it possibly be that this Philco roundie is from 68 or 69?

Then, I got to thinking about the chassis again. I remembered thinking that the power transformer looked a bit small for a roundie tube set. So I went back and looked closely at the layout and the tube diagram. Come to find out, this baby is a roundie hybrid! The tuners, IF stages, and AGC are solid state. That explains the SS on the front of the cabinet. So it turns out this is truly one of the very last roundies... a hybrid roundie possibly from somewhere between 68-69.

If someone has folder 1024-2, please look it up and check out the schematic. Any info would be appreciated! Is anyone else familiar with any roundie hybrids? Was a CTC-20 all tube?

Below are some better photos since i got it home.

The controls again. The SS is located to the left of Philco. Can't really see the S's in the picture. They are located on both sides of the little red emblem. The tuning eye tube turned out to be a 6HU6/EM87.

The chassis. Please excuse the dirt! You can see the transistorized section of the chassis just behind the left side of the CRT.

Since it appears that the CRT failed, it might not take much to get this running again. I'm sure that some lytics might need changing, but that's easy. At least, i hope CRT is all that failed.

Charlie,
I recall late last year an RCA CTC-20 Roundie was offered on e-bay. Item: 2197267225. (This can still be brought up). It was touted as RCA's last roundie produced in 1968. The seller speculated that RCA was using up its stock of 21" round tubes. Maybe this is true of your Philco as well. The RCA CTC-20 on e-bay was based on the 25" CTC-38 chassis. Does this make it a hybrid set?
:dunno: Steve

I am not familiar with any of the newer hybrid sets, but seems this one would be considered such. If we find any more of these, we'll have to add a new section to the forum... Hybrid Roundies. :D

...

Originally posted by Steve D.
Charlie,
I recall late last year an RCA CTC-20 Roundie was offered on e-bay. Item: 2197267225. (This can still be brought up). It was touted as RCA's last roundie produced in 1968. The seller speculated that RCA was using up its stock of 21" round tubes. Maybe this is true of your Philco as well. The RCA CTC-20 on e-bay was based on the 25" CTC-38 chassis. Does this make it a hybrid set?
:dunno: Steve

I just checked out the auction you mentioned. Kinda funny in a way... he only got 6 dollars for it. That RCA sure would have been worth locating a toob for it. Those were nice looking cabinets! I like the woodwork on front of the speakers.

I was looking to see if I could find any dates in the philco. About half of the original tubes were still in it. Each tube was marked "Philco Cool Chassis TV" and had a number 6805 towards the bottom... except for one... the tuning eye tube was marked 6826. On the yoke rear cover, I found 6808 below the part number. The degaussing coils have 6724 below the part number. Would it be a good assumption that these are 1968 dates, with the number week following? :dunno:

I couldn't find anything on the CRT. Had no markings anywhere other than a serial number on a piece of paper.

Actually I think the CTC-20 is more similar to the CTC-31. The CTC-31 was used in the same types of sets as the 38 (the 22" table and 23V table and console) and has a similar chassis layout. However the CTC-31 is all tube type except it may have one or two transistors in the color killer/ACC.

I have seen photofacts for Magnavox round color sets from 1969 and 1970. These were probably produced as a lower cost alternative to the rectangular sets and to use up the stock of the round CRT's. However these were all-tube sets, as all of the Magnavox color sets were at this time.

It seems logical to me that Philco would have just taken their usual color chassis at the time (1969) and made a round color set out of it, probably just to make a lower-cost set...it could have also been a "loss leader" designed to get people in to the store:
the ad could have been PHILCO COLOR TV $299 or something like that, without a picture of the set. When people found out that it was an old-fashioned round set the salesman might have tried to sell them on the, say, $379 rectangular set.

In case you guys are wondering, the factory use of an original generation round color CRT is the key whether the set is acceptable for this forum. Some sand will be seen in a few sets towards the end of the round era as we are seeing. Precious few perhaps I should add. Great find Charlie!

BTW, looking at the chassis photo I think that Philco must have come from England. The HV driver section is on the left side! :D

Chad,

Thanks for you input. The trick of getting someone in the store for the $299 set does sound quite likely. They do the same damn thing today! Car dealers like pulling that stunt a lot.

I suppose many of these sets got sold for the cheap price very easily. Some folks might have not minded getting the round tube since it would be quite a bit cheaper than the square one. Many older folks would likely settle for the cheaper set. (Of course those older folks don't include the type that might have hung out here at AK had we been around then) For instance, given a deal like that, I know my grandmother would go for it. Her attitude would be something like, "So what the sreen is round? I've been watching round screens since TV started broadcasting here!" Or another situation would be someone wanting a floor model color TV, but simply couldn't afford the extra 200 bucks.

Originally posted by Rob

BTW, looking at the chassis photo I think that Philco must have come from England. The HV driver section is on the left side! :D

Perhaps it will have an funny accent in the audio when i get it operating! ;)

The Philco I mentioned had that "SS" which was a clue to me. Mine looked to be 68-69, was also a "lefty". I read somewhere years ago that GE & Philco had some of the last roundies, but not sure where. Also read a bit about there being shortages of rectangular crt's for a time.

10 years ago a local used furniture store had a sign out front, "color tv, $5". That sign stayed up for months & months. When people went in they would find out that the $5 set was a late 60s RCA, but there were plenty of late model sets for more money. I spoiled it for the guy because I bought the RCA!

I have seen ads for Philco in "Life's" from 1967-68. They were advertising table-top Color BIG screen televisions, for like $298.00. Have NEVER seen one and was suprised someone was making them that late. Figured Philco had ALOT of 21FJ's to dump. Our repair shop was in Motorola, Zenith and RCA land, and I think they were done with the roundies by late 66. I sent Doug one of the Philco ads, maybe he will post it! (I'm too dumb to figure out how) I can't imagine Magnavox making round-screen sets after 1966......

This brings up the question of how many transistors a set can have before it's considered hybrid. Certainly a set like Zenith's 4 tube model is a hybrid, but does a transistor IF strip, or a couple of transistors in the chroma circuit like many late 60's sets have make it a hybrid?

I'm sure that everyone would agree that you need more than just a UHF transistor, SS rectifier for the power supply, and some diodes in the video detector and horizontal oscillator to be a hybrid set. I think that SS signal handling circuits (tuner, IF, chroma/luma circuits) would qualify as hybrid.

This is the Philco AD I got from James a few months back. 1966

Those sets are somewhat awkward to try and carry by yourself. He seems to have a very concerned look on his face. I bet I he's thinking that he should've taken Imodium A.D.!

:D :eek: :butt1: :butt2: :yikes: :lmao:

Doug,

Thanks for posting that. The knob layout on that set looks very close to mine. I am assuming it doesn't have the tuning eye. The solid state sections sound the same as well.

Kinda funny to think that set's cabinet is considered to be "compact contemporary styling". They should have changed the word "compact" to "cheaper"! Those sets are large no matter what.

The way they put it you would think P.C. boards were better than hand wiring rather than just cheaper.:dunno:

It seems like all the manufacturers who used printed circuit boards claimed that they were better than hand wiring. I think the only place where the boards have an advantage is on VHF/UHF circuits where hand wiring can lead to stray capacitance and oscillation.

The problem is when high-power tubes are used on cheaply made circuit boards: the heat travels down through the tube pins and causes the solder to crack, also some PC boards have been charred by normal tube heat.

Those types of sets are HEAVY, like 125 lbs. I had to pick one up like it to get it out of an estate sale, had no dolly to move it. It was a tough job!

Originally posted by Charlie
Next to the Motorola was another unique set. This one is a Philco. It's still up there at the shop because we only had room in the van for the Motor, and it's pouring down rain all today. I'll have to get this one home another day. I don't remember the model number, but I did get a couple of photos. I am guessing this one to be a 1965 or 66 model. The cabinet on this one is a little better than the Motorola.

I don't know who made this chassis... it's definitely not an RCA clone. I wish I could have got better pictures of it, but it was really dark in there and crowded. The power transformer looked a bit smaller than what we would normally find in them.

There is a feature on this set that I found to be very unique in a television. This set actually has a fine-tuner indicator like the ones found in Dynaco tuners! On the front above the channel selector, you can see where it says "tuning eye". From the inside, you can see the indicator tube above and forward of the tuner.

I dug through my Sams index to see if I could find a schematic to match up with this set, but my Sams stop at 730. I did find some listings for Philcos in the 1965-66 range, but that goes beyond my folders. There is a 769-3, 827-2, and 835-2. I am thinking that one of these might be the match to this particular roundie. I wish I had written down the model number instead of relying on my memory! If anyone has these folders, could you take a peek to see if any of them match up to what I have in these photos. A sure give-away will be the tuning indicator.

The tuning eye tube in that Philco is there to assist in setting the fine tuning knob properly. AFC circuits weren't that popular on color sets at the time this one was new; in fact, color TVs from the '50s had no tuner AFC circuits. Many people did not realize that color TV tuning is extremely critical; in fact, when color was first introduced and for some years thereafter (until AFC systems became more or less standard on most sets and, of course, many years before today's quartz-synthesized cable-ready tuners which do not need AFC to keep them on frequency), there were often situations in which a new color set owner would watch an entire program (which was being telecast in color) in black and white (monochrome), unaware that a simple twist of the wrist would have converted the picture to living color. These people were probably accustomed to the rather forgiving nature of b&w TV fine tuning, where one could, more often than not, get away with slight misadjustment and still have a picture plenty good enough to watch. Try this with color TV, however, and you will have anything but a good color picture; in fact, the chances are your picture will have no color at all, even though the monochrome component will be there and may look fairly decent. If you have color in the picture at this point, it may well be out of color sync.

Philco's tuning eye (and GE's tuning meter, which was used for the same purpose and operated on the same principle) prevented such mistakes. All the viewer had to do was adjust the fine tuning until the two segments of the eye tube just met (or the GE tuning meter was at its maximum reading for the channel to which the set was tuned); this was the point at which the tuner was now set exactly to the center of the channel and at which the color picture was at its best.

The Philco tuning-eye TV was made, IIRC, in the late '60s (I saw a picture of one of these sets in a 1967 issue of Mechanix Illustrated magazine, in an article on then-new color TV designs).

The two letters S on either side of the Philco's red emblem badge on the front panel may (and I emphasize *may*) stand for "solid state", though in my heart I doubt it very much. A TV of that vintage (except for Moto's works-in-a-drawer set, of course) isn't likely to have many transistors in it, if it has any at all. In fact, the only place I can see that Philco having transistors is in the UHF tuner, and even then it would likely only use one as a UHF oscillator (I don't think any of the major manufacturers, and certainly not the cheaper makes, ever used fancy-dancy UHF tuners with IF amplifier stages).

I happened to have the Sams photofact(1024) of this set(I have since sent it to Charlie). The set has a transistorized IF and some other solid state circuits if I remember correctly.

In the same folder is a Montgomery Wards B&W set that is completely solid state except for the HV rectifier. I also have three small Philco's and a Sylvania of similar vintage that are solid state except for the HV rectifier.

In, addition, in my workshop, I have a 1970 Sylvania table top square tube color TV that is solid state with the exception of the vertical and horizontal circuits. The Sam's for Charlies set was issued in 1969.

As you can see, solid state circuitry was fairly common in TVs of this era.

Originally posted by peverett
I happened to have the Sams photofact(1024) of this set(I have since sent it to Charlie). The set has a transistorized IF and some other solid state circuits if I remember correctly.

In the same folder is a Montgomery Wards B&W set that is completely solid state except for the HV rectifier. I also have three small Philco's and a Sylvania of similar vintage that are solid state except for the HV rectifier.

In, addition, in my workshop, I have a 1970 Sylvania table top square tube color TV that is solid state with the exception of the vertical and horizontal circuits. The Sam's for Charlies set was issued in 1969.

As you can see, solid state circuitry was fairly common in TVs of this era.


Oooops! Sorry about that. I didn't realize several manufacturers besides Motorola were making hybrid TVs in the '60s. Guess I've been away from the old sets too long. I was always under the impression that the first all-solid-state sets were the Moto works-in-a-drawer TVs, followed by RCA's original XL-100s, followed by Zenith's modular chassis, followed by most other manufacturers jumping on the bandwagon until all sets were eventually 100 percent solid state. (I do not consider TVs with tube HV rectifiers all solid state, even if the rest of the set has transistors and/or ICs; to me, these sets are still hybrids. If you want to split hairs even further, there may be people who consider any television set with a standard CRT as being a hybrid, even if every other tube in the set, including the HV rectifier, has been replaced by transistors and/or ICs.)

BTW, now I'm wondering. The original "XL-100" RCA TVs were 100-percent solid state, with the XL, of course, being an abbreviation for "X-tended life." That explains what the first RCA XL-100 label stood for. However, I have a 1999 RCA 19-inch set with "XL-100 Commercial Skip" plainly displayed at the top left corner of the cabinet, above the CRT. What, if anything, does the XL-100 stand for on my set? :dunno: If I were a betting man (I'm not), I'd bet that's just another meaningless/useless marketing label, like Zenith, RCA(!), GE, Magnavox, et al.

Jeff, I'd say you are right on the money about XL100 meaning nothing today. Guess using that was easier than coming up with a new name! Heck, just as well dust off the New Vista name!

It sticks in my mind, from something I read long ago, that the first 3 solid state color sets were Motorola, RCA & Sears. I don't know the story behind the Sears set but clearly remember reading that in more than one place. May have been an RCA in disguise? I would say that having a solid state set in your lineup would have been a real matter of pride at that time...there are several major players for whom I can't recall seeing a solid state color set from "the turn of the decade". GE comes to mind as does Admiral. I once had a junker Sylvania, which had been a very nice set at one time, it looked like about a '70 model give or take, and was solid state if I remember right. (I brought that home the same time as a similiar Magnavox, one was tube, I think)

Motorola built what they called an all solid state B&W TV around 1960. This TV was called "The Astronaut" or something to that effect. I am not sure about the HV rectifier or how good a set this was. Philco also built what the called an all solid state B&W TV about this time. The Philco's are fairly collectable.

These are the earliest solid state TVs that I am aware of.

I think that these very early solid state sets such as the Astronaut used a tube HV rectifier...even the RCA CTC-40 used a tube HV rect. There is a little Sony 5" solid state portable from 1968 uses a 3-tube HV tripler.

Another unique thing about the Astronaut is that it had a built-in battery pack that recharged when the set was plugged in.

I don't think that solid-state HV became really popular until the early 1970's.

The color bands around the channel selector on the Motorola are definitely interesting. I've seen the usual color badges on the front panels of old sets (I even had an RCA indoor TV antenna in the '70s which had an RGB color badge on the base, with the colors in small squares in a row), but never anything like the one on that Moto. Just goes to show how clever some of the early TV manufacturers were.

The RGB color bands in the center of the channel selector on Charlie's Motorola roundie are definitely very interesting. I've seen the usual color badges on early sets and, in the '70s, even had an RCA indoor antenna with such a badge on the base (the three primary colors were presented as three small squares arranged in a row). Just goes to show how clever those early TV manufacturers were.

Originally posted by peverett
Motorola built what they called an all solid state B&W TV around 1960. This TV was called "The Astronaut" or something to that effect. I am not sure about the HV rectifier or how good a set this was. Philco also built what the called an all solid state B&W TV about this time. The Philco's are fairly collectable.

These are the earliest solid state TVs that I am aware of.
the philco is the safari.
its an odd looking portable projection set.
everyone that comes into my shop ask"what the hell is that?"

Originally posted by Jeffhs
The two letters S on either side of the Philco's red emblem badge on the front panel may (and I emphasize *may*) stand for "solid state", though in my heart I doubt it very much. A TV of that vintage (except for Moto's works-in-a-drawer set, of course) isn't likely to have many transistors in it, if it has any at all. In fact, the only place I can see that Philco having transistors is in the UHF tuner, and even then it would likely only use one as a UHF oscillator (I don't think any of the major manufacturers, and certainly not the cheaper makes, ever used fancy-dancy UHF tuners with IF amplifier stages).

Just to clear the air, the following stages are transistors. This info was obtained by the tube/transistor diagram in the cabinet.

VHF & UHF tuners
I.F.
Video Amp
AGC Keying
AGC Amp

There's a total of 10 transistors. All of the remaining stages are tube... about 17 IIRC.

Originally posted by jstout66
I have seen ads for Philco in "Life's" from 1967-68. They were advertising table-top Color BIG screen televisions, for like $298.00. Have NEVER seen one and was suprised someone was making them that late. Figured Philco had ALOT of 21FJ's to dump. Our repair shop was in Motorola, Zenith and RCA land, and I think they were done with the roundies by late 66. I sent Doug one of the Philco ads, maybe he will post it! (I'm too dumb to figure out how) I can't imagine Magnavox making round-screen sets after 1966......


Neither can I. I think Magnavox was promoting its rectangular-tube sets (including its fabulous 3-way entertainment centers, which all used 25" rectangular CRTs) from 1966 on, and most other manufacturers had abandoned roundies by then as well, so your observation that Moto, Zenith and RCA "were done with roundies" by the latter part of 1966 is accurate.

It's interesting that Philco, however, was still turning out roundies in the late '60s. You may be right about them having a warehouse full of 21FJP/FBP22s to get rid of.

BTW, I saw the Philco ad you mentioned. I believe we have come full circle as far as TV design goes, as most of today's color sets are table models--and they still weigh the proverbial ton, even though they do not have power transformers. (The heaviest component in today's CRT-based televisions, IMO, is the CRT itself--the larger the screen, the heavier the tube.) I have two of these sets, a Zenith and an RCA, which are both very heavy. I have the RCA, the TV in my living room, on a wheeled utility cart; the Zenith is in my bedroom on a dresser.

One could get a hernia lifting either of these sets incorrectly. The Philco in the ad you mentioned was never intended to be a portable (though I do realize the picture in the ad was just for advertising purposes); one could *definitely* injure himself lifting one of those monsters if he didn't do it right. Those Philco table models were meant to be put in one place and left there; they were far too big and heavy, IMO, to be put on TV stands of the period, most of which were flimsily made of wire and brass-plated tubing with plastic casters at the base. They were designed for TV sets no bigger than about 19", with voltage-doubler B+ supplies (no power transformer) and series-string tube filaments.

I think those big Philco table-model sets might even ruin today's entertainment centers, which are not designed to support TVs weighing over 150 pounds or so (the one in the ad must have weighed at least that much). For another example, the weight limit of the utility cart on which my living-room RCA TV sits is 64 pounds. Put one of those big late-'60s Philcos on it, and it will cave in in no time flat, ruining it and the TV almost in the blink of an eye. (I have a suggestion as to how to build those larger sets into cabinets, but I won't mention it here.)

I was sorting through my Sams over the weekend, pulling out the duplicates so I could fit them all in the cabinet space I have. I kept an eye out for the last roundie in Sams. Several show up in 1969, including Magnavox, Airline, Muntz & I think Philco. But the last one shows up in August of 70, and its a Magnavox! It does seem strange that a company with a reputation for higher-line products would sell these so late. (but then, it wouldn't be the only example I've seen of cheesiness from the old Magnavox)

I might have to disagree a little with the fact of the 1970 Magnavox round set being a cheesy product...yes the CRT was old technology (round) but the chassis was the same as on the highest-end Magnavox color set, minus the pincushion circuitry.
I was also looking through Photodact folders and found some real cheap 23" color console designs...some of these were basically a Portacolor series-string chassis with upgraded horizontal output/damper tubes.

Bryan,
I have to agree with Chaud. These are probably the same chassis used in the 25" Maggies. We also get back to previous posts that suggest that Magnavox, like other manufacturers in the late 60's, had a wharehouse full of 21" tubes and masks and mounting hardware. Plus cabinets and backs ect. Some accountant may have suggested that a profit was still to be made on assembling and selling these as loss leaders. They would advertise them at a very attractive price and display the 21" next to a 25" set. Usually the customer would go for the bigger (higher priced) screen. Unless they were real bargin hunters and snapped up the last of the roundies.

Maybe that's where all the roundies in "Colossus: The Forbin Project" came from !! <grin>-Sandy G.

Originally posted by Chad Hauris
I might have to disagree a little with the fact of the 1970 Magnavox round set being a cheesy product...yes the CRT was old technology (round) but the chassis was the same as on the highest-end Magnavox color set, minus the pincushion circuitry.
I was also looking through Photodact folders and found some real cheap 23" color console designs...some of these were basically a Portacolor series-string chassis with upgraded horizontal output/damper tubes.


I didn't know that the GE Portacolor chassis were anywhere near powerful enough to drive 23" CRTs. My best guess is that the basic design of the chassis was modified to include beefed-up flybacks and, as you mentioned, H-output and damper circuits. The original chassis could not possibly drive a 23" tube in its unmodified state.

Also, I wonder how a series-string chassis could be powerful enough for CRTs larger than, say, 19 inches. There were many b&w sets of this screen size which used series-wired tubes and voltage-doubler B+ supplies, but I cannot imagine such a chassis in a color set with a 23" tube. I would think any voltage-doubler supply powerful enough for a large-screen color set would be very expensive to produce.

I never considered Magnavox's TVs as being "cheesy" designs, either--at least not until recently (as in since the 1990s); now, I am inclined to agree with the poster who made that statement. Until Magnavox was acquired by Philips, they were very well-built sets which lasted years and gave their owners very little trouble, aside from a tube replacement now and then and possibly a reconvergence every year or so. I saw a pic of one of Magnavox's best 1960s-era consoles in this forum not long ago. Remote, power tuning (VHF and UHF, which was very unusual in most sets having that feature--most sets with power tuning, including Zeniths, only had it on the VHF tuner), and, in Magnavox's fabulous 3-way color theatre consoles, the total remote control system (their deluxe "Phantom" remote, which not only controlled all basic functions of the television, but those of the AM/FM radio and even reject and changer functions of the phonograph as well). These are sets the likes of which we will probably never see again (witness the fact that almost all TVs made today are table models; most folks wanting consoles nowadays simply purchase a nice wooden TV stand or an entertainment center and put the new set, along with perhaps a bookshelf stereo unit and a VCR, in it or on it).

However, as I said, Chad, I am inclined to agree that today's Magnavox-branded TVs and VCRs are made very cheaply, as are most other formerly American makes which were once the top of the line in TV and home entertainment.

The 1970 Maggies were still very good sets. I once knew a man whose mother owned a Magnavox TV that lasted her some 25 years or more, so those early Maggies were built to last. IMO, it was not until the company followed the former RCA and Zenith to Korea that Magnavox's quality started its downward spiral; it's been going downhill ever since. If you want quality in any of these former American makes, I would say look for an older set, say 1960s-70s vintage. Back then, RCA, Zenith, GE, Magnavox, et al. were still American companies manufacturing quality products. The older sets, when properly restored, will likely go trouble free for years, unlike the so-called Zenith, RCA, etc. sets today that typically only last about two years before developing serious problems (for example, the CRTs in today's Gold Star-built "Zeniths" typically short after a couple years, taking much of the video circuitry, not to mention the power supply, etc., with them). I have an RCA-branded set, CTC185 chassis, built in 1999 in Juarez, Mexico that has been trouble-free for the most part (have had it four years as I write this), but I have a feeling that my set is the exception rather than the rule.

The older consoles were much better looking than today's table models, even the RCA-branded sets in their "diamond mist" high-tech silver-color cabinets, but as I said, owners of these plain-looking sets often put them in entertainment-center cabinets or on wooden stands finished to match the decor of the living room or family room, den, etc. This is yet another reason I'd hang on to American-made consoles, if you have the room for them; most TV manufacturers except "RCA" and "Zenith" no longer make consoles. In fact, I have a feeling that the cabinets housing RCA- and Zenith-branded console sets are not as well made as earlier console cabinets (like the TV sets' chassis themselves). Why should a company that cuts corners right and left on the TV chassis make a fuss over the cabinet, unless they subcontract the cabinet work out to a reputable cabinet maker such as the fine furniture manufacturers in North Carolina? I honestly believe that is what RCA and Zenith have done with regard to console cabinets; if this is true, the cabinets, if not the guts, of today's high-end RCA- and Zenith-branded CRT-based TVs are still probably as good as they always were in the '50s until the companies went to Korea. These are also, IMO, sets one need not feel guilty over gutting for the cabinet when the chassis or CRT, or both, eventually go West. The chassis of these modern sets may not last very long, but the cabinets, if made as well as I think they still are, will last years and will be fine furniture pieces to be enjoyed long after the guts have been scrapped.

The junkier stuff I've seen refers to some cheaper transistor radios from the 60s, clock radios, that sort of stuff. I have a few & they just don't strike me as anything special. I was cleaning out the shed where I have a late 40s Magnavox console radio & was surprised to see how empty the cabinet was, especially compared to the prewar Capehart I just lugged upstairs. No, its not junk, just not what I expected.

I like all old tvs and radios, don't get me wrong; for some reason Maggies have just never done much for me. :confused: