I moved this to a new thread, since I love TV DX'ing...

Since I like NBC-TV programming (even some of today's prime-time offerings), my favorite Detroit station was always WDIV-TV [formerly WWJ, now CBS channel 62].

Jeff, I think you've got things just a little mixed-up. Our NBC affiliate has always been (and still is) on Channel 4. The call letters, at the beginning, were WWJ (same as our ancient 50KW AM news station). At some time in the late 70s, perhaps very early eighties, ownership changed and the call letters changed to WDIV. It remained an NBC station, and this is the situtation today.

Our CBS affiliate was channel 2 WJBK, around 1994 they switched to FOX, and CBS was left with no Detroit affiliate. CBS went scrambling, because their was no more room on VHF, and having a major network on UHF was disgraceful!:( To add insult to injury, none of the exsisting UHF stations wanted anything to do with CBS. Finally CBS made "an offer that couldn't be refused" to the only black-owned TV station in the US, channel 62 WGPR (We're Grosse Pointe Radio). CBS completely rebuilt their ancient transmitter and chaged the call letters to WWJ-TV (I guess they figured nobody remembered).

Carmine,

I don't mean to challenge you here; I am aware of the fact that, living in the Detroit metropolitan area, you would know infinitely more about Detroit's TV stations than I would. What I meant to say in my last post was, when Detroit's channel 2 (then CBS) changed networks, it got Fox and channel 62 wound up getting the CBS affiliation, as you mentioned. (Twelve cities in total wound up having their channel lineups shuffled the same way when Fox bought TV stations in those areas in the early '90s.)

The same network swap occurred in Cleveland around that time as well, involving the city's CBS channel 8 and Fox channel 19; Fox bought out channel 8's former owners and switched the station to its network, which meant CBS, which had been on channel eight in Cleveland over 40 years by that time, had to settle on either channel 19 or 43. Channel 43 turned down the offer for the CBS affiliation, but 19 took it hook line and sinker, making the latter northeastern Ohio's CBS affiliate. People west of Cleveland have problems receiving the station over the air because channel 19's transmitter is east of town, but the station comes in beautifully on cable everywhere in northeast Ohio, some 50 miles in all directions.

Channel 62 wound up eventually with WWJ, the former call sign of Detroit's NBC affiliate, while channel 2 kept its call sign (WJBK). The NBC station is WDIV, as it has been for some time, having changed from WWJ some time earlier. (That's what I meant to say in my last post.)

How far are you from Detroit's TV stations? The transmitters are in Southfield, Michigan. Is St. Clair Shores a close-in suburb of Detroit, or is it an outlying area? Do you have an outdoor antenna, and if so, is it on a rotor or a tower?

I did not realize that WWJ-TV (CBS 62) is now operated by CBS, nor that the station's transmitter was in such bad shape when CBS acquired it. I remember seeing very good over-air pictures from 62 (then WGPR-TV) in the Cleveland area in the summer when it was an independent station.

In case you're wondering how I know so much about Detroit's TV stations: Before I had cable, I used to spend many hours in the summer DXing the VHF and UHF TV bands; I have seen Detroit's stations (and also Saginaw/Flint channels) many times when the bands were wide open, and one of Cleveland's stations was off the air (notably channels 5 and 25) when they used to sign off late at night. However, my best (and most amazing) TV DX was always on channel 2. I have received stations from as far away as Cheyenne, Wyoming on that channel, and many times I could get two or more stations on the same channel. One time I received WPBT-TV (the PBS station in Miami) on channel 2, five days in a row, just using rabbit ears on my TV set (a Zenith Space Command 300 19" from 1969). Couldn't believe it. One summer, over 25 years ago, I even saw then-NBC channel 2 in Denver coming in as if it were local, using just a set of rabbit ears atop the TV. The reception didn't last very long, but I'll never forget it.

I thought I was the only one on here who DX'ed TV (LOL). I know what you mean about Channel 2 usually being good for DX--it is usually good here (in South eastern Ont), but I have a fairly strong semi-local (Bancroft ON) which makes all but the strongest dx impossible on 2.
Do you, or did you notice, whether some brands of sets are better for tv dx? I usually found that my old RCA (circa late 80's) was good for it. The year old Zenith that I have as my main watcher now isn't that great at pulling in the weak signals--but a complaint against current era Zeniths is another story for another thread.

73

Eric
Tweed, ON

That channel 62 wasn't the one featured in that movie "UHF", no? The movie starring Weird Al Yankovic? Plot of the movie was something about this dump of a station that a major network affiliate wanted to buy and shut down channel 62. Channel 62 does a telethon to sell shares to raise cash to counter offer to 62's owner (who wanted to unload that station). The station janitor (who also did the station's big hit kids' show) was kidnapped by the evil network affiliate.

If this HDTV digital TV thing ever takes off, most every station will be up on UHF anyway.

EricC,

I used to drive through Tweed on my way to the Algonquin Radio Observatory from Toronto. I smiled from your post when you said you like to DX TV. Hell man, that's the ONLY WAY you can get off-air TV reception where you are! ;)

I've had a bit of fun on occasion when the ducting was in picking up stations towards Detroit and Chicago. I've received a couple from Chicago and numerous in the Detroit area, WDIV being one of them I had screenshots with my digital camera but lost them in the big blackout/computer crash this past summer. I made a video tape on another DXing session and thought I had picked up a Spanish station from New Mexico but it turned out was from the Chicago area.

I put up a 100 foot tower late this summer for a weather station and at the 55 foot height plan to put a motorized azimuth rotor around the tower (have to build it here in my machine shop) and erect a 10-12 foot mesh dish and make an all UHF prime focus feed with head end amp on it for DX'ing. That should work pretty well.

Rob, I take a bit of offense to your comment about TV DX being the only way to get signals here (LOL)--I'll have you know that last night, I was actually getting 3 channels in crystal clear on my antenna (5 if you count the French station and the educational one). Seriously, at times, the variety of stations (DX wise), beats the quality of the programming that they carry--or is it just me showing my age??

Eric C
(tuning back into TVLand and Deja Vu)
Tweed, ON

Eric,

What TV stations, if any, do you receive locally? You mentioned getting up to five stations on an antenna the night before your last post.

Where is Tweed, Ontario in relation to, say, Toronto or Windsor? If you are near the former, you might be getting network affiliates, including PBS, from Buffalo; OTOH, if you are closer to Windsor, you would likely be receiving the eight network stations from Detroit (plus CBET 9, formerly CKLW-TV in Windsor, as well as several affiliates of the TVOntario network, all of which are on UHF channels).

I cannot quite believe your town is so remote that you do not receive any local channels. However, if you are in fact "out in the sticks", miles away from the nearest stations (as I am, as I will explain), you should be able to get cable or put up a satellite system. I live in a very small town in northeastern Ohio, some 45 miles east of Cleveland's TV transmitters (which are actually located in Parma, Ohio, a western suburb of Cleveland), and do not get good reception of those channels on an antenna. However, I have Comcast digital cable which brings in every station in the city, as well as Chicago superstation WGN, Atlanta's TBS Superstation, TNT, et al., crystal clear--like a picture postcard.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect you must have cable as well, as you mentioned TV Land in your post.

Rob,

I asked this question once before in another post, but it must have gotten lost or was never posted to the forum in the first place. You mentioned in one of your posts that you do not have cable. I am wondering what stations you can receive in your area with an antenna.

Also, what type of TV antenna installation and receivers do you have? I remember reading in one of your previous posts that you had a high-gain antenna, with a rotor, atop a 100-foot tower. I also seem to remember you mentioning that you have a private cable system in your house. As to TV sets, I have seen pictures of your old ones, such as, IIRC, a Zenith 21" roundie console, et al. You have that set working like it was new, if it is the one I remember.

Jeff,
First of all, I must say, that in addition to my off air signals, I do have a satellite dish (the Canadian ExpressVu system), although for some reason, I like watching tv the old fashioned way (i.e. off the antenna, if I can get even a remotely watchable signal--I know, I am weird (LOL))
As for where Tweed is located, it is approximately mid way between Toronto and Ottawa (if you have a map which shows southern Ontario, my nearest major city would be Belleville, if it is shown--if not, Kingston--I am about 30 miles north of Belleville, and about 50 miles north-west of Kingston).
As for my local signals (off-air), Belleville has two channels, an educational one and a french. My only other two which come in completely clearly all the time, are my local CBC affilliate out of Kingston, and my local CTV affiliate which is a repeater of the Ottawa CTV--the repeater is in a community called Deseronto. Other than that, my primary US stations are the ABC, CBS and PBS affilliates out of Watertown, NY, about 60 miles from me. Other than that, I can usually get a couple of the Rochester stations, and the ABC and PBS out of Syracuse, so I guess the reception isn't really that bad. If you are used to watching cable calibre reception from a big city, my reception would be considered poor, but on the other hand, with the lack of strong stations filling up the dial, it makes it interesting for tv DX.

Eric
Tweed, ON

Jeff, I forgot to mention my equipment: my primary watcher now is a 1990 RCA 20" (which gets a better picture than my 2003 Zenith). I am hoping to aquire a more vintage set soon. As for my antenna, I have a Channel Master Fringe Head on a tower about 40 feet above ground level along with a mast mounted booster.

Originally posted by Jeffhs
Rob,

I asked this question once before in another post, but it must have gotten lost or was never posted to the forum in the first place. You mentioned in one of your posts that you do not have cable. I am wondering what stations you can receive in your area with an antenna.

Also, what type of TV antenna installation and receivers do you have? I remember reading in one of your previous posts that you had a high-gain antenna, with a rotor, atop a 100-foot tower. I also seem to remember you mentioning that you have a private cable system in your house. As to TV sets, I have seen pictures of your old ones, such as, IIRC, a Zenith 21" roundie console, et al. You have that set working like it was new, if it is the one I remember.

Jeff,

I have a 40 foot tower up one side of the house with a rotor and an all VHF-UHF yagi antenna like a channelmaster or something. It is about 12 feet long. I found it like new at the local landfill site. Deal! I installed a Radio Shack head amp on it. RG-6 down the tower into the basement where I have a 12 dB gain block to overcome the house cabling and splitter box losses. The splitters (buried unnaccessible innthe ceiling are VHF only (I think) so the top UHF channel available except on DX'ing is attenuated into the noise a bit.

Unfortunately where I point towards Toronto/Buffalo my antenna looks right through a huge oak tree's foliage and then right at a 40KV 3 phase HV power pole crossbar. The insulators make all sorts of noise when it is damp sometimes. You can watch as just one, or two, sometimes all three phases start to buzz on the screen. Luckily this doesn't happen too often.

I am in a DX'er's dream location. At 1620 feet I am on a high, flat plateau near the highest elevation in Ontario, NW of Toronto. When I look SE, S, or SW I have the elevation advantage. There is a big dropoff south of me towards Lake Ontario. I am about 120 miles LOS to Buffalo and the CN tower in Toronto is right in the same azimuth direction at about 70 milers(?) so without moving the rotor I get Toronto stations, Buffalo stations and a few others too.

Here's what I see pointed at Toronto.

2 US station (usually poor except when inversion )
3 CKVR Barrie (in rear lobe of antenna 50 miles away to the NorthEast). (VG)
4 US station, usually poor except when inversion)
5 CBC Toronto boresight (EXC).
7 Glowball (snowy) (Poor)
9 CTV Toronto boresight (EXC+)
11 CHCH Hamilton, a bit west of boresight (Poor)
17 TVO Toronto (EXC)
18 WNED PBS Buffalo boresight (varies Poor to VG)
23 Buffalo boresight (varies poor to G)
29 Buffalo boresight (varies poor to G)
41 Glowball Toronto boresight (EXC+)
49 Buffalo boresight (usually poor, sometimes G)
57 CITY _TV Boresight (G but in house coax losses prevent it from being better)

I can get the UHF station in Rochester and I seem to recall I got a Rochester VHF clear as local once when CBC 5 was off the air due to power outage in the CN Tower downtown Toronto.

As I said I just put up a 100 foot tower and will be able to place a large antenna at 55 feet. This will be UHF only and will get away from the big oak tree and the power pole problem. It should be awesome.

You can see my TV antenna tower to the left in this photo. I put up a tower on the south side of the house and strung a SW listening antenna across to the TV tower. Four feet above the SW longwire I have a #8 AWG copper ground protection wire. The TV antenna has a lightning rod above it and the rotor is bypassed with #1/0 copper welding cable flex loop. #1/0 runs from this all the way to the ground where two 10 foot lightning rods will discharge the current safely. Same two rod earthing setup and heavy copper down the tower on the south tower also. My house is well protected against a lightning hit!

That south tower is pulled over in this photo but I now have a single guy wire on it pulling it straight.

Rob
From where you are, do you get 13 CTV out of Kitchener? The channel 5 you mentioned getting when the antenna at the CN Tower was off, might have been Syracuse rather than Rochester. The Rochester VHF's are 8, 10, and 13. You might also want to try some time (when conditions are good) for the stations out of Erie, PA (12 NBC, 35 CBS and 54 ABC)

As for what I get here in my part of the boonies, on a 40 foot Tower with a Channel Master Deep fringe heat and tower mounted booster, is as follows:

2 Global Bancroft--VG to Ex
3 NBC Syracuse, NY--P to F
4 CBC Ottawa-P to non existant
5 CBS Syracuse, NY--P to G depending on weather
6 CTV Ottawa via Deseronto--Ex
7 CBS Watertown, NY-G to EX
8 CBS Rochester, NY-P-G Depending on weather
9 ABC Syracuse, NY--F-G
10 NBC Rochester, NY-P-G depending on weather
11 CBC Kingston, ON-EX
12 CBC Peterborough, ON--P-F
13 ABC Rochester, NY-P
15 SRC Belleville, ON (french)--excellent
16 PBS Watertown, NY--G-E
21 PBS Rochester, NY-P
24 PBS Syracuse, NY-F-G
27 Global Peterborough, ON-F
38 TVO Kingston, ON-F-G
50 ABC Watertown, NY--F-G
53 TVO Belleville, ON-EX

In addition, I sometimes get 51 Batavia, 56 Syracuse (both PAX) and 68 Syracuse (Fox), but these are very iffy. What really gets me about my reception is how variable some of the channels are, as you can see!

Eric

I forgot to mention, I guess 'cause it burns me a bit. I also get CBC French 25 UHF from Toronto. Quality? The best naturally.
I see you mention that you get SRC French better than anything else in Tweed also. Ever wonder why?

When the CBC went through major restructuring about a decade ago because of a lack of government funds to support it, the CBC station in Calgary Alberta was completely shut down. Did they also close the CBC French station in that 98% English speaking viewer area? Non!

Rob, there are times that I am convinced that the last three Canadian television stations/networks that will be broadcasting at the end of time will be CBC French, TVO, and The Shopping Channel! TVO and SRC are so strong here that I can get them on one of my portable sets without any antenna hooked up or the rabbit ears up at all. Scary thought!

Eric
Tweed, ON